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[AdmiralsJack]

sonicphoto wrote...

I really hope they follow this theory. Everything simply connects, even the beacon they find on Thessia says that indoctrinated protheans stopped the crucible because they thought they could control the reapers. Shepard is not indoctrinated until the end, the reapers are trying to indoctrinate him through the various dreams and nightmares he keeps having, and in the end you are the one who gets indoctrinated or does not. If you control the reapers, then the reapers indoctrinated you, but if you follow the mission as always and destroy the reapers then you didn't get indoctrinated.

Yes, I know there is still the whole joker falling in a strange planet with the crew and the mass relays destroying themselves but I am sure they can rebuild them together, just the way they build so fast the crucible. Start a universe new, without reaper pressence. Has for synthethics dying, it can be a lie, because the reapers know shepard has made sacrifices before with a race like the batarians and saved the geth, they wanted to confuse him. Has for Joker and crew, they could make a DLC with the characters looking for ways to fix the ship and explore the area until they finally manage to get out and it would be nice because it would be the first time we can play as the other characters for a change, in the end they get out and they see different ships constructing the mass relays and they decide to join, they all gather at some big alliance ship and shepard arrives by surprise they all say their goodbyes and take different paths by going to their respective fleets of their race. Of course, this would be DLC after they explain that Shepard survives indoctrination and all that.

with this theory we dont even have the problem with joker landing on the planet and the destruction of the relays because it was all part of shepards indoctriantion and he/she is still on earth

[lex0r11]

back again.

just forced myself to replay the ending once more, others here did it to find more clues so i might as well follow their example. i had to shoot marauder shields again.. i died a little inside.

but seeing it all again just makes even less sense than before. just made me nod all the time when things came up we all wrote down here. there is no way. just take anderson.. ANDERSON?! puking rainbows was never so much fun.
i came up with better endings to stuff when i played with toys in kindergarten.

and to those who might still believe to explain it all and hammer down that long needed epiphany on us, my offers still stands..

Modifié par lex0r11, 18 mars 2012 - 06:32 .

[Raze4573]

Geth Unit designate Raze4573 reporting in.
The line is being held. Old Machine forces taking damage.
1.5 hour vacant tomorrow, will continue writing ME3 ending fan fic just for the heck of it.
And yeah, indoctrination theory is a blessing for BW, they can just null/void the crappy endings and after hearing all suggestions and feedback that theyre collecting they can make ME3 1.5.
Thats the only logical option.

[DenmaDev]

The only issues I have against this theory eventually being implemented are:

1) The Prothean VI on Thessia actually does foreshadow the Catalyst. He says that they noticed patterns that prevailed through each cycle, but the Reapers were not the masters of these patterns. They merely followed them. Though this can be overlooked, I suppose.

2) If this is true, and someone chose Control or Synthesis, they would wake up indoctrinated, or not at all. If they don't wake up at all, then that's it. They've gotten a downer ending over a single choice they made. A wrong choice. BioWare has, up to this point, tried to emphasize that there's no one right way to go through the game. Your choices affect your outcome, but there's usually not a right or wrong. This situation would mean that you have three choices, and there's a single right one. The other two are wrong and you'll be punished for choosing them. That's not BioWare's style.

If, however, Shepard wakes up and is now indoctrinated, then there's hope. Saren fought off indoctrination long enough to kill himself, and Shepard is known for his/her willpower. There'd be some sort of difference, of course. Maybe his/her squadmates find him, wake him/her up, and s/he says, "No, I know now! We can live alongside the Reapers! We don't have to destroy them!"
Your two squaddies will give dismayed looks to each other and raise their weapons; Shep is indoctrinated. S/he'll be forced to take them down, and will then proceed to the beam to control/synthesize as s/he now believes will happen. There will be some different set of circumstances, but it will be possible to fight off your indoctrination briefly and fire the Crucible, destroying the Reapers, but Shepard will die no matter what. It would be hard to handle, but BioWare could pull it off, I'm sure.

[Kyp]

I first have to say that seeing my Shepard jump into the light to synthesize organic and synthetic life into a new DNA - sacrificing himself in order to bring about a lasting peace and future for those groups he aided and those people he loved - was completely in character and felt like a rather final conclusion to the epic trilogy.  I was a touch upset that he didn't get to spend time peacefully with Ashley and chilling with Garrus, but it was largely because of the loss of a friend - of the fictional variety found in any story-telling medium - who I'd spent 5 years with.

So, it was a bit of a shock when I read these theories and was struck by the fact that Catalyst's statements regarding the destruction option seem like true manipultion.  He specifically mentioned the destruction of the Geth - who I had spent ample time helping to save and integrate into galactic society - and the concept of inevitability.  The idea that it was inevitable didn't sit right with me, as it was in direct contravention with Shepard's statement that the AI was takign away our future.  But the mentioning of all the life - yes synthetic life - lost forced my hand.

In other words, Indoctrination Theory seems to be a rather plausible idea.  So I was reading more into it, and I discovered that - on another forum (and likely here) - it was mentioned that the Prothean VI expressed on Thessia its unwillingness to work for indoctrinated persons as a point that counted against Indoctrination Theory as the VI was willing to work with Shepard on Thessia.  This was a good point, but it's noted by the Codex that long term indoctrination is preferable to quick indoctrination and it's been noted several places that indoctrination of that sort works through weaknesses in the person.

(I apologize if this was already said, but I'm not reading through 17 thousand posts) A seemingly throwaway line at the Cerberus headquarters may lend some help to the theory and answer that criticism.  When Shepard finally gets to the Prothean VI in The Illusive Man's office, it states that The Illusive Man overrode its security features, allowing Shepard access to the data on the Catalyst for the Crucible.  This line is pointless if the VI was willing work with Shepard already.  So perhaps the feelings of self-doubt and responsibility for the fall of Thessia allowed for the long-term indoctrination to finally work their ways in to Shepard's mind.  Otherwise why would the VI feel the need to say this?

[carrmatt91]

lets just hope we don't have to pay for a new "continuation" dlc

[byne]

Kyp wrote...

I first have to say that seeing my Shepard jump into the light to synthesize organic and synthetic life into a new DNA - sacrificing himself in order to bring about a lasting peace and future for those groups he aided and those people he loved - was completely in character and felt like a rather final conclusion to the epic trilogy.  I was a touch upset that he didn't get to spend time peacefully with Ashley and chilling with Garrus, but it was largely because of the loss of a friend - of the fictional variety found in any story-telling medium - who I'd spent 5 years with.

So, it was a bit of a shock when I read these theories and was struck by the fact that Catalyst's statements regarding the destruction option seem like true manipultion.  He specifically mentioned the destruction of the Geth - who I had spent ample time helping to save and integrate into galactic society - and the concept of inevitability.  The idea that it was inevitable didn't sit right with me, as it was in direct contravention with Shepard's statement that the AI was takign away our future.  But the mentioning of all the life - yes synthetic life - lost forced my hand.

In other words, Indoctrination Theory seems to be a rather plausible idea.  So I was reading more into it, and I discovered that - on another forum (and likely here) - it was mentioned that the Prothean VI expressed on Thessia its unwillingness to work for indoctrinated persons as a point that counted against Indoctrination Theory as the VI was willing to work with Shepard on Thessia.  This was a good point, but it's noted by the Codex that long term indoctrination is preferable to quick indoctrination and it's been noted several places that indoctrination of that sort works through weaknesses in the person.

(I apologize if this was already said, but I'm not reading through 17 thousand posts) A seemingly throwaway line at the Cerberus headquarters may lend some help to the theory and answer that criticism.  When Shepard finally gets to the Prothean VI in The Illusive Man's office, it states that The Illusive Man overrode its security features, allowing Shepard access to the data on the Catalyst for the Crucible.  This line is pointless if the VI was willing work with Shepard already.  So perhaps the feelings of self-doubt and responsibility for the fall of Thessia allowed for the long-term indoctrination to finally work their ways in to Shepard's mind.  Otherwise why would the VI feel the need to say this?

Its also worth noting that the final 'indoctrination dream' happens after Thessia, but before TIM's base. Its very possible that Shep is more indoctrinated at TIM's base than she was on Thessia.

[Raze4573]

The Catalyst...we dont know what exactly is the Catalyst.
What if it isnt the Citadel and Shep&Co got pranked by TIM+Reapers and went straight into a trap.
Just because something is prothean doesnt mean its flawless.
What if it turns out the Catalyst is a myth that the Indoctrinated sleeper agents spread to make previous cycle races go "omg where is the Catalyst!?"
Far fetched but come on! Still better than a godchild AI/VI/stargod

[Ilzairspar]

I told a friend of mine over the weekend about Indoctrination theory and the possible DLC in April or May. She doesn't want to believe. Not because it isn't probable, but because she would then have to find a way to get the money (she's on permanent medical disability) to get herself from Dekalb to Bioware's offices and kill someone.

That being said.. I will continue to hold the line and spread this theory to all that will listen.

Modifié par Ilzairspar, 18 mars 2012 - 06:46 .

[monrapias]

Raze4573 wrote...

Geth Unit designate Raze4573 reporting in.
The line is being held. Old Machine forces taking damage.
1.5 hour vacant tomorrow, will continue writing ME3 ending fan fic just for the heck of it.
And yeah, indoctrination theory is a blessing for BW, they can just null/void the crappy endings and after hearing all suggestions and feedback that theyre collecting they can make ME3 1.5.
Thats the only logical option.

Could you write as a normal person would?

I might be the only one, but I wont read any post that tries ti mimic something from mass effect.    It would be alot better if people could just write as normal people.

[monrapias]

byne wrote...


Its also worth noting that the final 'indoctrination dream' happens after Thessia, but before TIM's base. Its very possible that Shep is more indoctrinated at TIM's base than she was on Thessia.

But shepard was not intoctrinated on thessia....

the prothean VI could not sense reaper influence in shepard, or any of the once he/she brings.

[Kyp]

monrapias wrote...

byne wrote...


Its also worth noting that the final 'indoctrination dream' happens after Thessia, but before TIM's base. Its very possible that Shep is more indoctrinated at TIM's base than she was on Thessia.

But shepard was not intoctrinated on thessia....

the prothean VI could not sense reaper influence in shepard, or any of the once he/she brings.

Which is why I find the statement about security parameters at the Cerberus Base to be so odd.

[N7L4D]

monrapias wrote...

byne wrote...


Its also worth noting that the final 'indoctrination dream' happens after Thessia, but before TIM's base. Its very possible that Shep is more indoctrinated at TIM's base than she was on Thessia.

But shepard was not intoctrinated on thessia....

the prothean VI could not sense reaper influence in shepard, or any of the once he/she brings.

Just read the op

[byne]

monrapias wrote...

byne wrote...


Its also worth noting that the final 'indoctrination dream' happens after Thessia, but before TIM's base. Its very possible that Shep is more indoctrinated at TIM's base than she was on Thessia.

But shepard was not intoctrinated on thessia....

the prothean VI could not sense reaper influence in shepard, or any of the once he/she brings.

It also took it quite a while to detect Kai Leng, who had to have arrived before Shepard did, because he killed the scientists at the temple.

It only actually detected Kai once it could actually see him, and Kai is heavily indoctrinated.

We might just be overestimating how effective its indoctrination sensing capabilities are, especially considering it was probably designed to detect indoctrinated Protheans, and not indoctrinated humans.

[Raze4573]

The prothean VI didnt even mention indoctrination in Cerberus base because well....ahem...Reaper remains, an army of Reaper tech implanted husk/soldiers, Shepard was just a drop of water in the sea of indoctrination.

[S Atomeha]

it's security parameters were off too.

[Adoree]

I just started playing from the start again after doing a complete new run of ME1 and ME2... the balcony where the husks attack I was watching it the entire approach,it is about 12 stories up and the little boy just *appears* in the middle of it as you get closer, he's SO not real

[JTP117]

Anyone else notice that the only thing that the Mass effect twitter and all the Devs WONT respond to is questions about the Indoctrination theory? Several of my friends and I have been sending them tweets about it for days, normally along the lines of "I've been reading up on the Indoctrination Theory, what are your thoughts on it? "

I keep it polite an professional as possible. I've noticed that no matter how much chatter is on twitter about the IT, no one from bioware has said anything about it. very interesting....

[byne]

JTP117 wrote...

Anyone else notice that the only thing that the Mass effect twitter and all the Devs WONT respond to is questions about the Indoctrination theory? Several of my friends and I have been sending them tweets about it for days, normally along the lines of "I've been reading up on the Indoctrination Theory, what are your thoughts on it? :)"

I keep it polite an professional as possible. I've noticed that no matter how much chatter is on twitter about the IT, no one from bioware has said anything about it. very interesting....

I know Jessica Merizan tweeted about it, saying fans were explaining the ending far better than she ever could, and linking this thread, but she's just a community manager, and not a dev.

[Iam2ugly]

Hi, fellow line holders today I was felling nostalgic about the whole series and I opened my old collectors edition of ME1 on PC. I was looking at artwork and guess what I found... The whole mirrored 1M1 it's not a sign od indocrination... It's just a reuse of old textures...

http://vlep.pl/04dca1.jpg

[Ilzairspar]

JTP117 wrote...

Anyone else notice that the only thing that the Mass effect twitter and all the Devs WONT respond to is questions about the Indoctrination theory? Several of my friends and I have been sending them tweets about it for days, normally along the lines of "I've been reading up on the Indoctrination Theory, what are your thoughts on it? :)"

I keep it polite an professional as possible. I've noticed that no matter how much chatter is on twitter about the IT, no one from bioware has said anything about it. very interesting....

Your right, I've noticed that when it is brought up they either ignore it or deflect it.

intresting...very interesting.

[Iam2ugly]

double post sry.

Modifié par Iam2ugly, 18 mars 2012 - 07:01 .

[byne]

Raze4573 wrote...

The prothean VI didnt even mention indoctrination in Cerberus base because well....ahem...Reaper remains, an army of Reaper tech implanted husk/soldiers, Shepard was just a drop of water in the sea of indoctrination.

Speaking of the Reaper remains, depending on if you saved or destroyed the Collector Base, the Alliance will recover either the baby Reaper's brain or heart from TIM's base, and use it to help build the Crucible.

Who exactly thought adding Reaper tech to an anti-Reaper weapon was a good idea?

[Serlith_]

Iam2ugly wrote...

Hi, fellow line holders today I was felling nostalgic about the whole series and I opened my old collectors edition of ME1 on PC. I was looking at artwork and guess what I found... The whole mirrored 1M1 it's not a sign od indocrination... It's just a reuse of old textures...

http://vlep.pl/04dca1.jpg

The Theory is slowly losing it's momentum AND some of the arguments for. 

Will keep holding the line nevertheless.

Modifié par Serlith_, 18 mars 2012 - 07:02 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

I have linked this to many people and they agree