57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Raze4573]

I will just say what Shepard said, the Crucible is too good to be true.
Something is not right about it. Reaper tech in a Reaper killing device?
O...m...g...What if the Crucible is actually a mass indoctrination device O_O

[byne]

Iam2ugly wrote...

Hi, fellow line holders today I was felling nostalgic about the whole series and I opened my old collectors edition of ME1 on PC. I was looking at artwork and guess what I found... The whole mirrored 1M1 it's not a sign od indocrination... It's just a reuse of old textures...

http://vlep.pl/04dca1.jpg

The mirrored 1M1 thing was never that convincing to me, other than the fact that any lettering at all is completely out of place on a part of the Citadel never meant to be seen by organics.

[Radwar]

My massive dissapointment wasn't a hallucination.

[Raze4573]

1m1 seen in ME1 during Citadel last mission if I am correct yes?
1m1 seen in ME3 during Citadel last mission
See the relation? Or am I just stating the obvious that was already mentioned.

[acidic-ph0]

Iam2ugly wrote...

Hi, fellow line holders today I was felling nostalgic about the whole series and I opened my old collectors edition of ME1 on PC. I was looking at artwork and guess what I found... The whole mirrored 1M1 it's not a sign od indocrination... It's just a reuse of old textures...

http://vlep.pl/04dca1.jpg

AH! Interesting... Still, these textures only apear on the outside of the Citidel where Shep requires a mask to breath. So although this does explain that the devs were reusing textures, it still doesn't explain how Shepherd can suddenly breath in the vaccuum of space.

 

[Iam2ugly]

space magic :]

[byne]

I dont know if this has been linked in this thread yet, but its a pretty good read, and a good summation of all thats off with the ending.

[Ghrelt]

byne wrote...

Iam2ugly wrote...

Hi, fellow line holders today I was felling nostalgic about the whole series and I opened my old collectors edition of ME1 on PC. I was looking at artwork and guess what I found... The whole mirrored 1M1 it's not a sign od indocrination... It's just a reuse of old textures...

http://vlep.pl/04dca1.jpg

The mirrored 1M1 thing was never that convincing to me, other than the fact that any lettering at all is completely out of place on a part of the Citadel never meant to be seen by organics.

Yeah, I always thought that piece of evidence was stretching.  The core of the concept stands without it.  Still odd to see human construction on the Citadel, if you ask me.  For me, it's not that the ending was bad, it just felt *wrong*.  This wacky theory makes more sense than the ending.  For me, anyway.

[Raze4573]

Thanks for the link byne, will link it to other line holding geth units and allied forces. *Reads while playing Minecraft.*

[Hacedor1566]

@Denmadev If this is true, and someone chose Control or Synthesis, they would wake up indoctrinated, or not at all. If they don't wake up at all, then that's it. They've gotten a downer ending over a single choice they made. A wrong choice.

A wrong choice. Exactly. If this theory is correct, then all that Catalyst stuff it's just a test. And if you fails... You fails. Just like the fight against the Banshees on Thessia. If you fails... They kill you. The diference is that in this case, it's a fight of wills. And the choices are a symbol. Destruction is the symbol that Shepard will not surrender. She (well, "she" in my case) resist indoctrination and get back to the fight.
At least that's how I understand it...

[Jillers]

DenmaDev wrote...

The only issues I have against this theory eventually being implemented are:

1) The Prothean VI on Thessia actually does foreshadow the Catalyst. He says that they noticed patterns that prevailed through each cycle, but the Reapers were not the masters of these patterns. They merely followed them. Though this can be overlooked, I suppose.

2) If this is true, and someone chose Control or Synthesis, they would wake up indoctrinated, or not at all. If they don't wake up at all, then that's it. They've gotten a downer ending over a single choice they made. A wrong choice. BioWare has, up to this point, tried to emphasize that there's no one right way to go through the game. Your choices affect your outcome, but there's usually not a right or wrong. This situation would mean that you have three choices, and there's a single right one. The other two are wrong and you'll be punished for choosing them. That's not BioWare's style.

If, however, Shepard wakes up and is now indoctrinated, then there's hope. Saren fought off indoctrination long enough to kill himself, and Shepard is known for his/her willpower. There'd be some sort of difference, of course. Maybe his/her squadmates find him, wake him/her up, and s/he says, "No, I know now! We can live alongside the Reapers! We don't have to destroy them!"
Your two squaddies will give dismayed looks to each other and raise their weapons; Shep is indoctrinated. S/he'll be forced to take them down, and will then proceed to the beam to control/synthesize as s/he now believes will happen. There will be some different set of circumstances, but it will be possible to fight off your indoctrination briefly and fire the Crucible, destroying the Reapers, but Shepard will die no matter what. It would be hard to handle, but BioWare could pull it off, I'm sure.

Mass Effect 2. Unless you consider making wrong choices leading to the death of your teammates (and yourself) to not be a "punishment". Throughout all of the ME series, you see that your choices have conseqeunces, and they're not all good outcomes, so no. I don't see Shep beig indoctrinated or dying as out of place in a game that has you living with thw consequences of your actions.

That being said, I think people tossing around that control/synthesis is "wrong" while destroy is "right" aren't really using the right terminology, because there is no right or wrong choice, unless you choose something your shep wouldn't do (which, for my shep, makes EVERY choice a wrong choice).

Still, badassfully, holding the line.

[GriffinXP]

New evidence on the indoctrination theory seems to have slowed down recently, and I haven't seen this posted anywhere, so I'll submit something that I found.

Has anyone seen the advertisement for the Sanctuary that is in the Presidium Commons? When you exit the elevator, if you head all the way down the hall to your immediate right, you can see a large holo-screen at the very end that boldly displays the word: 'Sanctuary'. The strange thing about it, though, is that the background of the advertisement is very disconcerting - on the whole, it's mostly consists of this weird shimmering dark-red color, but there are also these faint, black tendril-like wisps that move vertically across the screen.

If Cereberus is trying to attract people to the Sanctuary by passing it off as a safe haven, a place of peace and security, then why is their advertisement so unsettling?

Surely something more serene would prove to be a more appealing scene, wouldn't it? I mean, if I was a frightened refugee fleeing from the Reapers, the image of a peaceful place - a quiet colony nestled within a beautiful expanse of rolling, green hills, isolated from the war and free from strife - would probably have me buying tickets for the next shuttle out. However, the one they use is downright scary and unlikely to attract the attention of displaced colonists.

So, I offer this theory: perhaps the advertisement has been built with some kind of reaper technology, a low-level indoctrination device, if you will. To me, the effects on the holo-panel look very reminiscent of those used in Shepard's dreams and the final TIM confrontation (especially those tendrils).

Now, going on what I've read here about indoctrination, I'm pretty sure that the process can make people see and hear different things, so perhaps when the average man looks at the screen, he sees the paradise of his dreams.
This would imply that Shepard, who assumingly sees the same thing that the player does, can see through this illusion.

Perhaps this is more evidence of Shepard's resistance to indoctrination?

Or maybe my argument is hideously flawed - in which case, hopefully someone will set me straight. I am completely open to being wrong.

Modifié par GriffinXP, 18 mars 2012 - 07:16 .

[noobcannon]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Slightly off topic. i was looking at my favorite pages bar at the top of chrome. I look like a conspiracy theorist. Me3 endings is indoctrination youtube, was the ending a hallucination?, Indoctrination theory, The endings explained, so on so forth.

same here. lol.

[JTP117]

byne wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

Anyone else notice that the only thing that the Mass effect twitter and all the Devs WONT respond to is questions about the Indoctrination theory? Several of my friends and I have been sending them tweets about it for days, normally along the lines of "I've been reading up on the Indoctrination Theory, what are your thoughts on it? :)"

I keep it polite an professional as possible. I've noticed that no matter how much chatter is on twitter about the IT, no one from bioware has said anything about it. very interesting....

I know Jessica Merizan tweeted about it, saying fans were explaining the ending far better than she ever could, and linking this thread, but she's just a community manager, and not a dev.

Still, hearing something like that from someone on the inside certainly gives us more evidence of the IT theory. It wasn't like she said, "Well you guys are kinda right" she flat out said "This forum right here, that is the perfect explanation of the real ending" and a Dev or not, she's still bioware so she has to have some knowledge on what is going on.

Thank you for responding by the way

[Ghrelt]

Hey, Byne, I wonder if you might want to add the words "Indoctrination Theory" to the title of this thread? Just a thought.

[byne]

Ellythe wrote...

Hey, Byne, I wonder if you might want to add the words "Indoctrination Theory" to the title of this thread? Just a thought.

I shall grant you your wish!

Forum Magic™ - Almost as good as Space Magic™!

[Knut0]

Ellythe wrote...

byne wrote...

Iam2ugly wrote...

Hi, fellow line holders today I was felling nostalgic about the whole series and I opened my old collectors edition of ME1 on PC. I was looking at artwork and guess what I found... The whole mirrored 1M1 it's not a sign od indocrination... It's just a reuse of old textures...

http://vlep.pl/04dca1.jpg

The mirrored 1M1 thing was never that convincing to me, other than the fact that any lettering at all is completely out of place on a part of the Citadel never meant to be seen by organics.

Yeah, I always thought that piece of evidence was stretching.  The core of the concept stands without it.  Still odd to see human construction on the Citadel, if you ask me.  For me, it's not that the ending was bad, it just felt *wrong*.  This wacky theory makes more sense than the ending.  For me, anyway.

As I stated about 20 posts earlier, there are loads of places on the citadel where there are human numbers and letters. This is probably just put up as decoration by the devs to make a little more life in the background, this can be seen everywhere in all three games, and has nothing to do with the dream/hallucination/indoctrination.

[Cucobr]

So... the indrocnation final is the most acceptable. The problem is that it is not an end.

I, fan of the series, I'm discarding the other ends.

[Silasqtx]

Serlith_ wrote...

Iam2ugly wrote...

Hi, fellow line holders today I was felling nostalgic about the whole series and I opened my old collectors edition of ME1 on PC. I was looking at artwork and guess what I found... The whole mirrored 1M1 it's not a sign od indocrination... It's just a reuse of old textures...

http://vlep.pl/04dca1.jpg

The Theory is slowly losing it's momentum AND some of the arguments for. 

Will keep holding the line nevertheless.

No it's not. The "M" signature indicates that's Alliance-made. What's it doing on the Citadel?

Proof: M-35 Mako, M-29 Grizzly, M-44 Hammerhead,  8M8 on the Normandy's doors. should i continue?

Keep holding the line.

Edit: Man this thread moves fast.

 

Minute 3.00 --> till it ends. The "1M1" panel looks a lot like Alliance's Navy cannons.

Modifié par Silasqtx, 18 mars 2012 - 07:30 .

[MegumiAzusa]

byne wrote...

I dont know if this has been linked in this thread yet, but its a pretty good read, and a good summation of all thats off with the ending.

One thing I noticed in this was: "There's only one dark hallway like the one scattered with human remains."
You can see another such way if you look through the glass (if there is glass) on your right. Still you can't see Anderson until you reach the platform.

Silasqtx wrote...
No it's not. The "M" signature indicates that's Alliance-made. What's it doing on the Citadel?

Proof: M-35 Mako, M-29 Grizzly, M-44 Hammerhead,  8M8 on the Normandy's doors. should i continue?

Keep holding the line.

Edit: Man this thread moves fast.

 

Minute 3.00 --> till it ends. The "1M1" panel looks a lot like Alliance's Navy cannons.

It actually reminds me more of the capacitors on top of the Shadow Broker's ship, also the moving parts look similar.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 18 mars 2012 - 07:34 .

[Raze4573]

I never had an issue with accepting how a game ends.
But then came ME3...Currently reading what byne linked, I love taking apart ME3's ending and studying it.
I guess I was too furious to do it on my first playthrough. Now I see everything clearly.
I will hold the line and continue to contribute to this topic as best as I can but I think we can all agree that the real ending is the indoctrination theory.
Why? Cause its bloody logical!

[xXAndikingXx]

Hey there guys!
I just played some ME2 again, because I
still needed a savegame where Kaidan is still alive (I want to unlock
his barrier skill for my vanguard). I also finished „The Arrival“,
because I wanted to have another 100% savegame.


The Info I received there more than
confirmed the indoctrination theory (i seriously advise you to play
it again!).


Beware, wall of text coming:


I will skip the fist part of the
arrival and start with the „object Rho“ part because this is
where things get interesting.


Shepard has been directly hit by a
Reaper device, which is presumably directly controlled by Harbinger,
what knocked him off his feet. The artifact gave him a “vision”
of the the arriving reapers. The first thing you see during that
vision (but only for the blink of an eye) is Harbinger directly
starring at you (This is where indocrination starts and Harbinger
entered Shepards brain).


Then this intense battle against
indoctrinated human troops starts. Here Kenson (and even Harbinger)
state several times that they don't want to kill Shepard. - Why
because the want to turn him into an indocrinated sleeper agent. Now
you sure want to know what makes me so sure of that? It is Harbinger
himself: During the battle he directly addresses Shepard saying:”
Try to resist if you wish , but your mind will be mine!” (Beware
this is only a translation from my German version, which is why I
need you to confirm what Harbinger said) You hear this sentence quite
late in the battle, so don't go down!

If you "survive" the fight the artifact
hits you again but this time fully charged which leads us to Shepards
first hallucination (one of the first steps of being indoctrinated) –
Kenson and the other humans speaking with the almost harbinger like
voice and with glowing eyes. You might argue, that in fact Harbinger
controls them directly (like the collectors), but this is the only
time during the dlc when Kenson has got eyes like that, what leads me
to the thought that Shepard hallucinated because of the impact of
reaper tech.


And: They could have simply killed him,
but they “want him alive”. Just imagine Shepard being
indoctrinated. He could bring down whole civilizations without the
reapers need to even interfer.


But that's not all the evidence the dlc
provides (in fact indoctrination and it's effects seem to be the
main topic of the arrival) . One of the first logs you find speaks of
Kenson having terrible nightmares, nightmares she wakes up from
covered in sweat (just like Shepard). The nightmares want her to feel
guilty because she sees her friend getting pulverized over and over
again. (Dead friend haunt Shepard as well). Dreams are one of the
devices reapers use to break the will of their targets. They know,
that the only thing, that Shepard really fears is loosing his friends
and/or innocents people. Kenson even says that the things she sees
during her dreams seem to become real and haunt her in real life
(that little boy, appears as the Catalyst).


The last evidence I'm about to give you
(even if there might be more) is the way how Kenson argues about the
“purpose of the reapers” in one of her logs. “No one knows what
they actually do and after all organic life still exists”. The
argumentation is almost like the Catalyst's. He tries to convince you
that the reapers aren't that bad at all and that you should trust
him.




Concerning ME3:
I think TIM (who got lowly
indoctrinated since ME: Evolution, and who is propably just doing
what Harbinger wants him to do) tried to lure Shepard into a trap,
making him believe that the Citadel is the Catalyst. Harbinger KNEW
Shepard couldn't be able to resist this chance and expected him down
on earth (Otherwise it doesn't make sense to bring the citadel in the
sol system, Harbinger wanted the trap to be a perfect temptation) His
laser knocked him of his feet and his , this time, direct presence
are the final attempt on indoctrinating Shepard while he is down.




I could have gone in even more detail,
but I think this should be enough for now.



Bioware could you please confirm our
theory, your riddle has already been solved




Oh, and don't loose faith, keep on
holding the line!

[AdmiralsJack]

Silasqtx wrote...

Serlith_ wrote...

Iam2ugly wrote...

Hi, fellow line holders today I was felling nostalgic about the whole series and I opened my old collectors edition of ME1 on PC. I was looking at artwork and guess what I found... The whole mirrored 1M1 it's not a sign od indocrination... It's just a reuse of old textures...

http://vlep.pl/04dca1.jpg

The Theory is slowly losing it's momentum AND some of the arguments for. 

Will keep holding the line nevertheless.

No it's not. The "M" signature indicates that's Alliance-made. What's it doing on the Citadel?

Proof: M-35 Mako, M-29 Grizzly, M-44 Hammerhead,  8M8 on the Normandy's doors. should i continue?

Keep holding the line.

Edit: Man this thread moves fast.

 

Minute 3.00 --> till it ends. The "1M1" panel looks a lot like Alliance's Navy cannons.

even if it is just decoration it is just a minor point of the theory

holding the line here

[Earthborn_Shepard]

anything important since yesterday?