57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Silasqtx]

Yep, but people. BW itself stated that Indoc. was a possible ending that got cut out. You really think that after doing that they tuned the entire game to rectify the cut? I say they didn't. Hints are there because they wanted it in the first place. All we have to do is get that back.

Holding the line.

[Raze4573]

I do wonder...what is BioWare exactly waiting for. We did it, we solved the mystery.
Why keep the masquerade up? The longer they wait the more annoyed we are and the more people just return ME3 to the store or even sell it to someone.
Not to mention the complete lack of official answer, did we scare them or something?

[AdmiralsJack]

Raze4573 wrote...

I do wonder...what is BioWare exactly waiting for. We did it, we solved the mystery.
Why keep the masquerade up? The longer they wait the more annoyed we are and the more people just return ME3 to the store or even sell it to someone.
Not to mention the complete lack of official answer, did we scare them or something?

maybe they are waiting for more players to finish the game?

[Carbs2k]

They have stated many times that they are waiting for more people to have a chance to finish the game and see the current ending, we just have to sit and wait.

[JTP117]

xXAndikingXx wrote...


Hey there guys!
I just played some ME2 again, because I
still needed a savegame where Kaidan is still alive (I want to unlock
his barrier skill for my vanguard). I also finished „The Arrival“,
because I wanted to have another 100% savegame.


The Info I received there more than
confirmed the indoctrination theory (i seriously advise you to play
it again!).


Beware, wall of text coming:


I will skip the fist part of the
arrival and start with the „object Rho“ part because this is
where things get interesting.


Shepard has been directly hit by a
Reaper device, which is presumably directly controlled by Harbinger,
what knocked him off his feet. The artifact gave him a “vision”
of the the arriving reapers. The first thing you see during that
vision (but only for the blink of an eye) is Harbinger directly
starring at you (This is where indocrination starts and Harbinger
entered Shepards brain).


Then this intense battle against
indoctrinated human troops starts. Here Kenson (and even Harbinger)
state several times that they don't want to kill Shepard. - Why
because the want to turn him into an indocrinated sleeper agent. Now
you sure want to know what makes me so sure of that? It is Harbinger
himself: During the battle he directly addresses Shepard saying:”
Try to resist if you wish , but your mind will be mine!” (Beware
this is only a translation from my German version, which is why I
need you to confirm what Harbinger said) You hear this sentence quite
late in the battle, so don't go down!

If you "survive" the fight the artifact
hits you again but this time fully charged which leads us to Shepards
first hallucination (one of the first steps of being indoctrinated) –
Kenson and the other humans speaking with the almost harbinger like
voice and with glowing eyes. You might argue, that in fact Harbinger
controls them directly (like the collectors), but this is the only
time during the dlc when Kenson has got eyes like that, what leads me
to the thought that Shepard hallucinated because of the impact of
reaper tech.


And: They could have simply killed him,
but they “want him alive”. Just imagine Shepard being
indoctrinated. He could bring down whole civilizations without the
reapers need to even interfer.


But that's not all the evidence the dlc
provides (in fact indoctrination and it's effects seem to be the
main topic of the arrival) . One of the first logs you find speaks of
Kenson having terrible nightmares, nightmares she wakes up from
covered in sweat (just like Shepard). The nightmares want her to feel
guilty because she sees her friend getting pulverized over and over
again. (Dead friend haunt Shepard as well). Dreams are one of the
devices reapers use to break the will of their targets. They know,
that the only thing, that Shepard really fears is loosing his friends
and/or innocents people. Kenson even says that the things she sees
during her dreams seem to become real and haunt her in real life
(that little boy, appears as the Catalyst).


The last evidence I'm about to give you
(even if there might be more) is the way how Kenson argues about the
“purpose of the reapers” in one of her logs. “No one knows what
they actually do and after all organic life still exists”. The
argumentation is almost like the Catalyst's. He tries to convince you
that the reapers aren't that bad at all and that you should trust
him.




Concerning ME3:
I think TIM (who got lowly
indoctrinated since ME: Evolution, and who is propably just doing
what Harbinger wants him to do) tried to lure Shepard into a trap,
making him believe that the Citadel is the Catalyst. Harbinger KNEW
Shepard couldn't be able to resist this chance and expected him down
on earth (Otherwise it doesn't make sense to bring the citadel in the
sol system, Harbinger wanted the trap to be a perfect temptation) His
laser knocked him of his feet and his , this time, direct presence
are the final attempt on indoctrinating Shepard while he is down.




I could have gone in even more detail,
but I think this should be enough for now.



Bioware could you please confirm our
theory, your riddle has already been solved




Oh, and don't loose faith, keep on
holding the line!

Wow, I had completely forgoten about Kenson's dreams. That does bear a striking resembelence to what is happening to Shepard! Good find!

[Novouto]

Raze4573 wrote...

I do wonder...what is BioWare exactly waiting for. We did it, we solved the mystery.
Why keep the masquerade up? The longer they wait the more annoyed we are and the more people just return ME3 to the store or even sell it to someone.
Not to mention the complete lack of official answer, did we scare them or something?

They're probably waiting to announce something at PAX, if there was ever a better place to do it it would be there.

[JTP117]

Carbs2k wrote...

They have stated many times that they are waiting for more people to have a chance to finish the game and see the current ending, we just have to sit and wait.

It's the waiting that's the worst part

[rabidm0ng0ose]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet but....

If you choose destroy
the red burst causes the SAME electrical surge that left Sovereign
vulnerable, but a thousand times worse because I believe that it was
Harbinger who was doing everything he can to take control of Shepard in
his last moments so he can save him, so he can use him to demoralize his own
people. However, it backfired, and I believe that all the reapers are
connected to Harbinger in some manner so when the surge when off it
affected every Reaper. Kind of like how a parallel circuit would burn out if you over cranked the potential difference to a point where the resistors couldn't handle it. In this case the PD being Shepard's mind and the Resistors being the Reapers.

Also in addition I believe that perhaps
the red burst was just a manifestation of the force that was happening
and not actually visible by organics.

These are the thoughts I had after investigating the endings and the Indoctrination Theory and only being able to do the destroy ending whenever I replay that last scene. I can not bring myself to control or synthesize my self with the Reapers. It rubs me the wrong way.

Thoughts?

[Knut0]

Has anybody thought that Joker flleing the wave in the Normandy accompanied by the two squadmates you took with you to the beam,is actually kind of a metaphor for death? That Normandy crashed off-screen and thereby killed joker, and ending up in "paradise" with the two squadmates going with you to the beam(as seen in cut footage, it was intended for them to die). It could also be Shepard hoping that everyone on his crew get to live in peace afterwards(which has been speculated a few times).

This is a bit of a stretch, but it is possible.

[iwillkillfortali]

Knut0 wrote...

Has anybody thought that Joker flleing the wave in the Normandy accompanied by the two squadmates you took with you to the beam,is actually kind of a metaphor for death? That Normandy crashed off-screen and thereby killed joker, and ending up in "paradise" with the two squadmates going with you to the beam(as seen in cut footage, it was intended for them to die). It could also be Shepard hoping that everyone on his crew get to live in peace afterwards(which has been speculated a few times).

This is a bit of a stretch, but it is possible.

That don't make sense because during the jungle planet I brought Tali and James yet Tali and Javik came out.

[ba0987]

Silasqtx wrote...

Yep, but people. BW itself stated that Indoc. was a possible ending that got cut out. You really think that after doing that they tuned the entire game to rectify the cut? I say they didn't. Hints are there because they wanted it in the first place. All we have to do is get that back.

Holding the line.

Wrong, they said that they cut out gameplay that involved being directly controlled by Harby because they couldn't figure out how to fit him controlling your actions.

That doesn't mean that they didn't figure out another way to show you fighting (or accepting) indoctrination... Maybe the scenes they cut came after our current ending... Just a thought

Holding the line for Liverpool!!

Edit: yeah just realised that's what you were saying anyway.... Ignore me tired from cooking a Sunday roast for 5

Modifié par ba0987, 18 mars 2012 - 07:59 .

[k8ee]

T16skyhopp wrote...

Just a useful side by side of the ending flavors, if anyone needs the reference.

Wow, watching that really puts this whole mess into perspective. Just... wow.

[Jillers]

Honestly I would be happy with a press release that said something along the lines of:

"We are aware of our fans' reaction to the ending of Mass Effect 3. While we didn't expect this kind of attention, please understand that we are unable to comment specifically on the ending because of [legal/whatever] reasons. But we promise that after [x-amount of time/PAX East panel] we will make a statement that will put [at least some of] these issues to rest, one way or another."

That's it. All I want is a show of good faith that they will eventually tell us, without double talk and spin, what the heck is up with the ending...

[Ghrelt]

byne wrote...

Ellythe wrote...

Hey, Byne, I wonder if you might want to add the words "Indoctrination Theory" to the title of this thread? Just a thought.

I shall grant you your wish!

Forum Magic™ - Almost as good as Space Magic™!

Yay!  While I'm on a roll, Bioware, I want the real ending now!  <closes eyes and wishes reeeeally hard>

[VinceMayCry]

Raze4573 wrote...

I do wonder...what is BioWare exactly waiting for. We did it, we solved the mystery.
Why keep the masquerade up? The longer they wait the more annoyed we are and the more people just return ME3 to the store or even sell it to someone.
Not to mention the complete lack of official answer, did we scare them or something?

Two possibilities : they were really planning something and some announcement is on its way. Or (which I tend to believe more and more after each day passing) they're just waiting for the storm to pass and disappear so they can sell pre-ending DLC as if nobody ever complained about the ending.

Somewhere I still hope indoctrination theory (which totally makes sense considering ME canon since the first episode, unlike the dumb and rushed deus ex machina ending) is true and the end gets fixed, but to be perfectly honest, my doubts grow stronger and stronger.

French forces still holding the line, but with less and less conviction.

Modifié par VinceMayCry, 18 mars 2012 - 07:57 .

[Cucobr]

Raze4573 wrote...

I never had an issue with accepting how a game ends.
But then came ME3...Currently reading what byne linked, I love taking apart ME3's ending and studying it.
I guess I was too furious to do it on my first playthrough. Now I see everything clearly.
I will hold the line and continue to contribute to this topic as best as I can but I think we can all agree that the real ending is the indoctrination theory.
Why? Cause its bloody logical!

agree

the only "end" is the indoctrination theory.

the others dont manke any sense at all.

[T16skyhopp]

That google doc should be linked in the first post. Even if just as reference to "things that are wrong/odd" just so people can refer to it.

[Raze4573]

Even if BioWare says officially and once and for all "The ending is canon, deal with it." I will hold the line. We have created a better ending, and if I am forced to, I will just imagine it in my head and smile happily or even imagine a slightly sad ending which is still more satisfying than the "official" ones.
Why? Because if Mass Effect was always about our choices, I dont need BW forcing ONE ending.
So to all of you losing resolve and faith, stay strong, dont let the Reapers take over.
Our influence will change the endings. In this battle, we will hold the line!

[Golferguy758]

Silasqtx wrote...

Yep, but people. BW itself stated that Indoc. was a possible ending that got cut out. You really think that after doing that they tuned the entire game to rectify the cut? I say they didn't. Hints are there because they wanted it in the first place. All we have to do is get that back.

Holding the line.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that they said that FULL control of yoru character was cut because it'd be too hard to implement. None of what has been theorized here indicated full control. only influence etc etc

[Earthborn_Shepard]

We need "HOLD THE LINE" shirts with a Kirrahe pic

[Red Starblazer]

AdmiralsJack wrote...

Raze4573 wrote...

I do wonder...what is BioWare exactly waiting for. We did it, we solved the mystery.
Why keep the masquerade up? The longer they wait the more annoyed we are and the more ponies just return ME3 to the store or even sell it to somepony.
Not to mention the complete lack of official answer, did we scare them or something?

maybe they are waiting for more players to finish the game?

Admiral Jack, the game has already been out 3 days in Asia and 12 for the rest of us. Frankly if they are waiting I think it been long enough. I'm hoping for tomorrow, but odds are it'll be Tuesday.

[Raze4573]

[Raze4573]

BAH! Internet lagged, sorry for the double post. *Image edit removed*

Modifié par Raze4573, 18 mars 2012 - 08:19 .

[MissMaster_2]

AdmiralsJack wrote...

Raze4573 wrote...

I do wonder...what is BioWare exactly waiting for. We did it, we solved the mystery.
Why keep the masquerade up? The longer they wait the more annoyed we are and the more people just return ME3 to the store or even sell it to someone.
Not to mention the complete lack of official answer, did we scare them or something?

maybe they are waiting for more players to finish the game?

I think they are going to say something towmorrow, (its sunday.) or at PAX.

[Knut0]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

AdmiralsJack wrote...

Raze4573 wrote...

I do wonder...what is BioWare exactly waiting for. We did it, we solved the mystery.
Why keep the masquerade up? The longer they wait the more annoyed we are and the more people just return ME3 to the store or even sell it to someone.
Not to mention the complete lack of official answer, did we scare them or something?

maybe they are waiting for more players to finish the game?

I think they are going to say something towmorrow, (its sunday.) or at PAX.

Since everything Bioware releases is on tuesdaays for some reason, I'll belive it'll be Either this Tuesday or the next that we'll hear something.