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[JTP117]

Nizzemancer wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

HairyMadDog1010 wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

No.

/Thread.

Bioware needs to come up with their own poor excuses, you're not allowed to help them.

Please read the OP and then come back ready to have an intelligant dicussion where both party's produce evidence for each differing opinion.

You mean all the groundless speculations that are basicly overanalyzation of oversights Bioware made? Yeah, I read that post. My answer is still no - Shepard isn't indoctrinated.

And you waited until 710 pages into this thread to say that?

No, that would imply that I knew about this thread earlier. I did however decide to post in the thread when it was already 710 pages into the discussion...so terribly sorry for breaking the chronology-rules of this thread.

Your snarky attitude actually amuses me as I made a post about most people who don't believe in the theory acting as such earlier in this thread.

[JTP117]

jackncoke28 wrote...

Kyp wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

The fact that god child knew what crucible could do, when it had just been completed for the first time in any cycle, still bothers me.

Well, it was kind of clear that one of the bigger underlying themes was that of evolution.  Of course species evolve - we see this largely through Javik's dialogue about the current species in charge and his thoughts on evolution being the only rule of the cosmos.  But also technological evolution - every species builds on top of what species before it did, who passed it along to them.  

So, to perhaps explain how the AI knew what the Crucible would do, it is possible that the technology - like almost all the other technology in the galaxy - came from the same place that the reapers and AI did.  The successful completion of the crucible was, as the name implies, a test to allow for organics to truly evolve to the point of allowing synthesis with synthetics.  (If the endings stand as they are, then I think that synthesis is supposed to be the right answer, despite Shep waking up in the "perfect" ending that I'm PISSED AS HELL is impossible to get without playing multiplayer)

im pissed about the multiplayer situation too. also i dont believe in synthesis being the best or right answer, especially considering the narrative of the importance of free will, and deversity among species. synthesis seems to fall more in line with reaper ideology of order above chaos. i understand god child expecting technological evolution, i just dont understand it knowing the exact workings of something that was finished a couple of hours before.

Aw man! How much MP do you have to do to get it?

[Ghrelt]

<looks at the ****storm brewing elsewhere on the BSN tonight>
<crosses arms>

Still.
Holding.
The.
Line.

[Legion109]

Nizzemancer wrote...

HairyMadDog1010 wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...
No.
/Thread.
Bioware needs to come up with their own poor excuses, you're not allowed to help them.

Please read the OP and then come back ready to have an intelligant dicussion where both party's produce evidence for each differing opinion.

You mean all the groundless speculations that are basicly overanalyzation of oversights Bioware made? Yeah, I read that post. My answer is still no - Shepard isn't indoctrinated.
now good night/morning, kind sir/madame!

Someone forgot to take their happy pills

- We don't hold lines in Las Vegas we do lines -

Indoception - the belief it was an Indoctrination in a Hallucination caused by the Indoctrination in the Dreams.

[Rob Psyence]

Nizzemancer wrote...

HairyMadDog1010 wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

No.

/Thread.

Bioware needs to come up with their own poor excuses, you're not allowed to help them.

Please read the OP and then come back ready to have an intelligant dicussion where both party's produce evidence for each differing opinion.

You mean all the groundless speculations that are basicly overanalyzation of oversights Bioware made? Yeah, I read that post. My answer is still no - Shepard isn't indoctrinated.

now good night/morning, kind sir/madame!

So, do you think that making the illusive man, a hypocrite already being indoctorinated and running horribly grotesque experiments on humans by deceitfully luring them to "sanctuary", seem paragon and Anderson, someone inherently good fighting in the trenches the whole game seem renegade wasn't done on purpose, that its just an oversight?

So you would decide that siding with an Indoctorinated man saying controlling them is the way is a good idea? The reapers are speaking through TIM the whole game, trying to convince you control is the way.

Modifié par Rob Psyence, 19 mars 2012 - 05:06 .

[Exicuren]

Has anyone occurred that maybe EDI is one of the causes of indoctrination?

When shep grabs the body, that's when the dreams start, if i recall correctly, the shadowy and oily figures start to increase as the game progresses, but slow indoctrination requires certain amount of contact with reaper artifacs, i think EDI's body is reaper tech, maybe not pure reaper tech,but some of the body is. What caught my attention to it was TIM's reaction to EDI's answer to why she took control of the body and the way she speaks in ME2 when she says "I have control" in a very reapery way.

Other things that caught my attention was the reaction of the citadel regarding the war, it was a very conforming way in the embassies, presidium and purgatory bar regions. In the codex, there's a reaper variant that has the function of a transport vessel, maybe the citadel is one of them. Finally, the reaction of the crew to EDI's body was surprinsingly well accepted, which was very weird, and even more when I read that the people from the crucible was very suspicious from rachni and geth help.

[TheConstantOne]

Kyp wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

I've been following indoc theory for a while and, I must say, I'm a supporter. But has anyone considered the possibility that the room with the Reaper child may *not* be the crucial indoctrination moment? That may be the moment when Shepard is preparing to break free of indoctrination and the Reapers are trying to affect how he breaks free? I mention this because I am not satisfied with indoc theory's current explanation of the synthesis option. That choice isn't addressed much and I think there is more going on with that ending than has been noted so far.

I'm thinking that the true indoctrination moment is the Illusive Man confrontation with Anderson. That is the scene where we clearly see the evidence of "oily shadows" (I know this observation has been hit on several times.) Should Shepard survive this scene and defeat the Illusive Man, he begins to break free of Reaper control. Once Shepard starts to come to his senses, the Reapers make a final, desperate attempt to enslave him. We then move to Reaper Child scene.

If we follow the reasoning I just used, the kid could be a construction of not just the Reapers, but of Shepard as well. There is some support for this in that both the male and fem shep voice are components of the child's voice (again, I know this has been discussed.) The kid would have some knowledge of the Reapers and their purpose seeing as they are also part of the child (if this kid is even telling the truth which is anyone's guess) In order to escape indoctrination, Shepard must defeat the Reaper threat in his mind. Depending on his preparation, there can be more than one option with which he can do this. I'm beginning to think the "destroy" and "control" endings are not so much a choice between indoctrination and freedom, but a choice between what part of Shep is sacrificed to the Reapers in order to wake up.

Choosing "Destroy" leads to Shepard choosing to destroy all that is synthetic about him/herself. This leads to his organic components becoming a carrier for Reaper code and still gives them a "hook" from which to try and manipulate him. Conversely, choosing "Control" leads to Shepard sacrificing the organic essence of himself and thus the Reapers take hold of his synthetic components. The surviving components of Shep remain in the room with the child and are consequently "left behind" to the Reapers. With enough preparation, Shepard's mind can conceive of the third option: Synthesis. Synthesis consumes Shepard's entire being and therefore he can escape the indoctrination with the Reapers obtaining no hold of any kind on him. I can see some evidence for this in that the kid remains trapped in the room while he disappears for the destroy and control endings...perhaps because the Reaper entities inside of the kid escape the room with Shepard in those endings?

I don't know if this has been mentioned anywhere before, but synthesis has always seemed like an anomaly in the indoc theory. I know my spin on things seems different from the mainstream idea I've seen announced but I feel that there may be something to what I'm thinking, especially since Synthesis requires more preparation for Shepard to achieve.

Not a perfect ending explanation but what is anymore? haha Anyway, let me know what you all think, I'm eager for some feedback to this.

I like this alot.  That was bothering me as well, though the synthesis option is still somewhat disturbing in itself for what it purports to do to all life.  But this is a very good counter theory

Thanks.  I also recall Bioware stating that the "perfect ending" was available with or without multiplayer. The only ending that seems to fit that description is synthesis.  The destroy ending showing Shepard's survival is one crucial thing that I can't fully explain in this framework.  That's ironic because it was that scene that made me a believer in indoc theory haha

[fieryace]

Unnoficial/official comment about the endings:
http://social.biowar.../index/10222868

[nighthawk132651]

has anyone noticed if you have blue eyed or defualt shep his/her eye colors change at various points of the game for on i noticed in particular was the stand of in the dream with anderson and TIM my guys eys were blue and then while talking to TIM the would turn brown or blackish and after when i sat with anderson and went to the Wierdo space magic kid they were blue again happens at diffrent times and also mabey its just me or lazy workers?

[crimsontotem]

fieryace wrote...

Unnoficial/official comment about the endings:
http://social.biowar.../index/10222868

well that was a hell of a ride, lol sure was exciting to watch all that 

[UKillMeLongTime]

at least jess refuted that post

--

Guys this was a misinformed individual who is helping us on our social media channels during our launch period. Nothing has changed I'm terms of the feedback we're gathering. If we had made a decision regarding this matter, we would have relayed it in a formal announcement. 

I'm so proud of everyone who has been participating in surveys, polls, threads that politely address concerns and the overall positive nature of our community. Don't forget that many issues people had with DA2 was directly addressed with DLC like Legacy. This is a serious matter and I promise that our leadership is hearing your feedback.

Stay the course guys. This was a mistake within our internal communications, not a leak or announcement.

I'm locking this thread to avoid further confusion. 

Modifié par UKillMeLongTime, 19 mars 2012 - 05:20 .

[HairyMadDog1010]

Nizz I am intrested how you disprove these topics.

1.Shepard having TIM's eyes in controll and synth.
2.Shepard impossibly surviving the destroy, even tho space kid says he will die.
3. Sapce kid telling you to wake up when you are clearly awake(only happens with hidh EMS).
4.Human writting in a place were no human other then shep has set foot.
5.God mode gun.
6.Anderson beating you to the consoleeven tho he was behind you.

There are more but this is enough to get us started. Now please have an intelligant conversation with the posters on this thread instead of saying we are wrong without refuting our evidence.

Modifié par HairyMadDog1010, 19 mars 2012 - 05:46 .

[JTP117]

HairyMadDog1010 wrote...

Nizz I am intrested how you disprove these topics.

1.Shepard having TIM's eyes in controll and destroy.
2.Shepard impossibly surviving the destroy, even tho space kid says he will die.
3. Sapce kid telling you to wake up when you are clearly awake(only happens with hidh EMS).
4.Human writting in a place were no human other then shep has set foot.
5.God mode gun.
6.Anderson beating you to the consoleeven tho he was behind you.

There are more but this is enough to get us started. Now please have an intelligant conversation with the posters on this thread instead of saying we are wrong without refuting our evidence.

Well said.

[thefallen0412]

HairyMadDog1010 wrote...

Nizz I am intrested how you disprove these topics.

1.Shepard having TIM's eyes in controll and destroy.
2.Shepard impossibly surviving the destroy, even tho space kid says he will die.
3. Sapce kid telling you to wake up when you are clearly awake(only happens with hidh EMS).
4.Human writting in a place were no human other then shep has set foot.
5.God mode gun.
6.Anderson beating you to the consoleeven tho he was behind you.

There are more but this is enough to get us started. Now please have an intelligant conversation with the posters on this thread instead of saying we are wrong without refuting our evidence.

for #1 i think you mean Shepard having TIM's and Saren's eyes in controll and synthesis
im an indoc supported just trying to help out, not refute you or be an ass

[Cloud Varis]

Stumpykins wrote...

hasn't the behind the scenes ipad app proved that this theory is untrue. im sure i read that they toyed with the idea of shepard becoming under full reaper control (indoctrination) but dropped it due to the fact they couldnt get it to work right with dialogue options

://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9999272/1
heres the link

Translation:
"So, this theory about how the ending shouldn't be taken at face value, and may lead to some kind of surprise ending. Wouldn't Bioware have mentioned it in the behind the scenes app before revealing said surprise ending if this were true?"

No, I imagine that the app in question doesn't disprove anything, seeing as giving away the truth of such an ending would defeat the purpose of said ending in the first place. Indoctrination theory or not, the ending's not supposed to be definitive at present.

[JTP117]

Cloud Varis wrote...

Stumpykins wrote...

hasn't the behind the scenes ipad app proved that this theory is untrue. im sure i read that they toyed with the idea of shepard becoming under full reaper control (indoctrination) but dropped it due to the fact they couldnt get it to work right with dialogue options

://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9999272/1
heres the link

Translation:
"So, this theory about how the ending shouldn't be taken at face value, and may lead to some kind of surprise ending. Wouldn't Bioware have mentioned it in the behind the scenes app before revealing said surprise ending if this were true?"

No, I imagine that the app in question doesn't disprove anything, seeing as giving away the truth of such an ending would defeat the purpose of said ending in the first place. Indoctrination theory or not, the ending's not supposed to be definitive at present.

If ANY of this were way off or wrong, Bioware would have said so by now, instead, all they've done is drop more and more hints that we are right

[noobcannon]

so tomorrow is the first monday since the last release date (march 15-Asia). Think we'll wake up tomorrow with some good news????

[CerealWar]

The fact that Shep is breathing after he destroys all synthetics(including himself), proves that the space kid is full of s***.

[JTP117]

noobcannon wrote...

so tomorrow is the first monday since the last release date (march 15-Asia). Think we'll wake up tomorrow with some good news????

Bioware likes to post major news on Tuesdays for some reason, so it's either this tuesday, next tuesday, or sometime at PAX

[TheConstantOne]

noobcannon wrote...

so tomorrow is the first monday since the last release date (march 15-Asia). Think we'll wake up tomorrow with some good news????

I'm thinking that if we hear anything it will be on Tuesday.  Or perhaps the end of the week.

[thefallen0412]

guys even if the indoc theory was not planned we can still have them add it to the game. Bioware keeps saying how they are gathering data. Well IGN is running a poll on their facebook and it would be stupid to think Bioware would not pay attention to the gaming media's "biggest" website. I know many of you dont like IGN like me but taking a second to vote wont hurt anyone and will only help the cause.

https://www.facebook...50639359051633/

hold the line!

[JTP117]

CerealWar wrote...

The fact that Shep is breathing after he destroys all synthetics(including himself), proves that the space kid is full of s***.

That remains the biggest confirmation of this theory.

[LadyVakarian]

 I posted this on the Demand a better ending facebook page too but guys...Say it ain't so you guys!  

I always picked Samara, but still.... wow 

[HairyMadDog1010]

thefallen0412 wrote...

HairyMadDog1010 wrote...

Nizz I am intrested how you disprove these topics.

1.Shepard having TIM's eyes in controll and destroy.
2.Shepard impossibly surviving the destroy, even tho space kid says he will die.
3. Sapce kid telling you to wake up when you are clearly awake(only happens with hidh EMS).
4.Human writting in a place were no human other then shep has set foot.
5.God mode gun.
6.Anderson beating you to the consoleeven tho he was behind you.

There are more but this is enough to get us started. Now please have an intelligant conversation with the posters on this thread instead of saying we are wrong without refuting our evidence.

for #1 i think you mean Shepard having TIM's and Saren's eyes in controll and synthesis
im an indoc supported just trying to help out, not refute you or be an ass

Crap sorry ty i need to go to sleep.

Modifié par HairyMadDog1010, 19 mars 2012 - 05:47 .

[HairyMadDog1010]

noobcannon wrote...

so tomorrow is the first monday since the last release date (march 15-Asia). Think we'll wake up tomorrow with some good news????

Maby a few hints I dont think we will get anything till pax tho.