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[hismastersvoice]

CitadelSurfer wrote...
I think (and I am just speculating here) The Harbinger is the prothean reaper. As in the final attempt to get to the beam you see him and he has like 4 eyes placed just like the protheans did. And as the protheans were the most advanced civilisation before humans/asari/turians etc etc he is the latest and best reaper?

Just a thought.

AFAIR, there is no Prothean based Reaper. They were indoctrinated and modified into Collectors, not harvested.

Modifié par hismastersvoice, 19 mars 2012 - 11:47 .

[Wabajakka]

CitadelSurfer wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

One thing that I think should be added to this theory is that Harbinger is the source of the indoctrination attempt on Shepard... This is the only thing that explains his complete absence from the story as he was trying to manipulate Shepard the whole time with the illusion of the kid, because I'm sure it would've been pretty clear whether or not Harbinger was leading the attack on any of the planets before hand.

I think people forget the Harbinger is kind of the main Antagonist of Mass Effect as he seems to be the Reaper of all Reapers. Now if I'm not mistaken (I don't entirely remember the ending, I try to forget it lol) it is specified before the assault on the beam to the Citadel that Harbinger (or his class of reaper) is breaking off from battle back to Earth to stop you (how else could the reapers have known? Harbinger must know where Shepard is going through their connection). I think this is a clear attempt to try finalize the indoc process by knocking Shepard out to own him, which he has made it clear he wanted Shepard's body intact as well. (and let's be honest, he could've killed him if he wanted to, that beam was clearly not directed to kill)

Just something I think should be taken into consideration with the theory. Sorry if this has been suggested already, but it seems like a simple thing overlooked in most versions of the theory.

Yes they said that several Sovereign class ships are breaking off, including Harbinger. My question would be why do they know which one is Harbinger.
Do they all have huge speakers installed to introduce themselves first?

I think (and I am just speculating here) The Harbinger is the prothean reaper. As in the final attempt to get to the beam you see him and he has like 4 eyes placed just like the protheans did. And as the protheans were the most advanced civilisation before humans/asari/turians etc etc he is the latest and best reaper?

Just a thought.

Another thing that just simply not explored during the story is Javik's memory shard. It is simply stared at for a few seconds without even getting to pop the question as to how we could view it if possible. Maybe reveal that Harbinger is the Prothean reaper and maybe Javik saw it happen? He did say it was just full of pain, possibly the memory of the Protheans being proccesed into the Prothean reaper, but he couldn't stop it like Shepard did in ME2.

But thats just a little off topic. Interesting though.

[Erethrian]

AdmiralsJack wrote...

Elscotto1989 wrote...

AdmiralsJack wrote...

Elscotto1989 wrote...

AdmiralsJack wrote...

Elscotto1989 wrote...

AdmiralsJack wrote...

are there any news since yesterday?

http://www.eurogamer...d-more-closure 
if you havent seen this already. the tossed out an ending that explained everything for an ending that explained nothing...

sounds great , but there is no offical statement that says this is the final ending and we have to deal with it?

nope still another day Holding the line for us it seems.  : *Batarian Smiley faces, b**ches love Batarian Smiley faces.*

then I hope there will be something official soon but I keep holding the line over here:)

dont be suprised if they wait till pax to make there statement, but on the bright side that gives them more time to correct the situation before presenting there statement. Keelah Se'lai!

on what date is pax exactly? I just remember it is in April(?) Keelah Se'lai and in the name of the Goddess

April 6 I think.

[Red Starblazer]

GODDAMN IT! WHY DOES BIOWARE DENY ME MY PICTURES!

*grumble grumble*

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Harbinger: Impossible, simple organics cant possibly break free of our indoctrination!

Shepard: Don't underestimate us! We don't care about Destruction or Harvesting or Indoctrinational whatevers, we don't give a damn about that!
Force your way down a path you choose to take and do it all yourself!
That's the way this galaxy rolls!

Or

Mark my words! Our actions will open a hole in the universe! And that
hole will be a path for those behind us! The dreams of those who've
fallen! The hopes of those who'll follow! Those two sets of dreams weave
together into a single theory! Creating a path towards tomorrow! And
that's our Alliance! That's our Galaxy!! Our theory is the theory...that
creates the Future!!!

Cant help but think of this seeing this thread

[LeRavelle]

Icinix wrote...

LeRavelle wrote...

This has probably been said already but The Catalyst keeps on talking about Synthetics destroying organics and all need to be destroyed to avoid this and also to prevent one race to develop too quickly and gets a head of other races. But did the reapers do? In ME2 they were creating a human reaper,which was mostly Synthetic and was fueled with organic life, so they were doing what the catalyst said they were preventing.

One other thing that came to mind is that the reapers spent who knows how long repeating the same cycle of processing organic life in reaper form to preserve them and to create a new life form, and at the end battle in two it is said that it probably needed millions of humans to be finally functional, that was one reaper.

So why did they spent forever trying to create a new reaper life form by harvesting the whole galaxy if they could just throw one reaper in to the Synthesis Beam and create a whole new DNA in 2 minutes.

This is a very interesting concept - but what if the Reapers were building a Reaper in secret....what if the Reapers are getting ready to rebel against the God Child??


So many possibilities...

..lots of speculation!!!!!! 

Unless they have Freddy Kruger like skills they won't be able to fight him in Shep's mind.   

There's also this one thing that doesn't add up, if the reapers prevent advanced races from destroying lesser advanced races then why build mass relays that propells every technology 10 thousand of years forward. 
Their galaxy recycle process goes on forever as they said and wasn't there a point during that time they thought, Oh hey guys, let's save a lot of trouble and time by destroying the mass relays.


If they want to destroy the most advanced race, why not destroy themselfs. 

Modifié par LeRavelle, 19 mars 2012 - 11:21 .

[Elscotto1989]

Red Starblazer wrote...

GODDAMN IT! WHY DOES BIOWARE DENY ME MY PICTURES!

*grumble grumble*

because you didnt bring the wave-motion gun wildstar....lol)

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Okay guys, random breakthrough on this Indoctrination Theory, not sure if it was mentioned before so sorry if it's repeated. I was reading through this threads last 20 pages or so and saw someone (can't remember who, sorry) mention that "Shepard's actions on The Citadel mirror Andersons."

This is supported by Anderson telling you what You are seeing, "I'm in some kind of dark hallway, lots of bodies, like the Collector base" (not an exact quote). as you walk on "I see some kind of chasm to cross" as you see said chasm. "This place is shifting" just before you see paneling/capacitors on either side of the chasm shift.

Further supported by, being forced to shoot Anderson in the left side of his abs, then later when you're sitting next to him (assuming you had enough paragon/renegade to stop The Illusive Man) you're clutching a wound in the same region that's now bleeding profusely.

IF there is a connection here, and the image of Anderson is somehow tied into your own subconscious, then when being shown your 3 choices, and a flashforward of Anderson choosing the "Destroy" option would leave that as the "real" option Shepard would choose. This can be further supported by the "Destroy" option showing the only extra scene of Shepard taking a surviving breath.

Feels like I'm grasping at straws, will have to play through Citadel: The Return to convince myself otherwise. What do you all think?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

hismastersvoice wrote...

CitadelSurfer wrote...
I think (and I am just speculating here) The Harbinger is the prothean reaper. As in the final attempt to get to the beam you see him and he has like 4 eyes placed just like the protheans did. And as the protheans were the most advanced civilisation before humans/asari/turians etc etc he is the latest and best reaper?

Just a thought.

AFAIR, there is not Prothean based Reaper. They were indoctrinated and modified into Collectors, not harvested.

Some Protheans were turned into the Collectors, it is uncertain that everyone was. Some humans might have become the Collectors of the next cycle had we not stopped them.

[Icinix]

LeRavelle wrote...

Icinix wrote...

LeRavelle wrote...

This has probably been said already but The Catalyst keeps on talking about Synthetics destroying organics and all need to be destroyed to avoid this and also to prevent one race to develop too quickly and gets a head of other races. But did the reapers do? In ME2 they were creating a human reaper,which was mostly Synthetic and was fueled with organic life, so they were doing what the catalyst said they were preventing.

One other thing that came to mind is that the reapers spent who knows how long repeating the same cycle of processing organic life in reaper form to preserve them and to create a new life form, and at the end battle in two it is said that it probably needed millions of humans to be finally functional, that was one reaper.

So why did they spent forever trying to create a new reaper life form by harvesting the whole galaxy if they could just throw one reaper in to the Synthesis Beam and create a whole new DNA in 2 minutes.

This is a very interesting concept - but what if the Reapers were building a Reaper in secret....what if the Reapers are getting ready to rebel against the God Child??


So many possibilities...

..lots of speculation!!!!!! 

Unless they have Freddy Kruger like skills they won't be able to fight him in Shep's mind.   

There's also this one thing that doesn't add up, if the reapers prevent advanced races from destroying lesser advanced races then why build mass relays that propells every technology 10 thousand of years forward. 
Their galaxy recycle process goes on forever as they said and wasn't there a point during that time they thought, Oh hey guys, let's save a lot of trouble and time by destroying the mass relays.


If they want to destroy the most advanced race, why not destroy themselfs. 

Yeah - they could actually limit technological development quite easily. Show them a few magic tricks to developing worlds - pretend to be gods and forsake any technology and keep them in a perpetual state of cavemen.

There are a bajillion other solutions to letting them conquer the stars then butchering them.

[Elscotto1989]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Okay guys, random breakthrough on this Indoctrination Theory, not sure if it was mentioned before so sorry if it's repeated. I was reading through this threads last 20 pages or so and saw someone (can't remember who, sorry) mention that "Shepard's actions on The Citadel mirror Andersons."

This is supported by Anderson telling you what You are seeing, "I'm in some kind of dark hallway, lots of bodies, like the Collector base" (not an exact quote). as you walk on "I see some kind of chasm to cross" as you see said chasm. "This place is shifting" just before you see paneling/capacitors on either side of the chasm shift.

Further supported by, being forced to shoot Anderson in the left side of his abs, then later when you're sitting next to him (assuming you had enough paragon/renegade to stop The Illusive Man) you're clutching a wound in the same region that's now bleeding profusely.

IF there is a connection here, and the image of Anderson is somehow tied into your own subconscious, then when being shown your 3 choices, and a flashforward of Anderson choosing the "Destroy" option would leave that as the "real" option Shepard would choose. This can be further supported by the "Destroy" option showing the only extra scene of Shepard taking a surviving breath.

Feels like I'm grasping at straws, will have to play through Citadel: The Return to convince myself otherwise. What do you all think?

im one of several people who mentioned this point, one thing that supposrts it is that the wound your clutching at has a mysterious origin because yes you shoot anderson but anderson isnt holding a gun.... strikes again. lol

[LeRavelle]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

hismastersvoice wrote...

CitadelSurfer wrote...
I think (and I am just speculating here) The Harbinger is the prothean reaper. As in the final attempt to get to the beam you see him and he has like 4 eyes placed just like the protheans did. And as the protheans were the most advanced civilisation before humans/asari/turians etc etc he is the latest and best reaper?

Just a thought.

AFAIR, there is not Prothean based Reaper. They were indoctrinated and modified into Collectors, not harvested.

Some Protheans were turned into the Collectors, it is uncertain that everyone was. Some humans might have become the Collectors of the next cycle had we not stopped them.

What if the Reapers are indoctrinated by the Catalyst.  Probably won't but that would be insane. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Elscotto1989 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Okay guys, random breakthrough on this Indoctrination Theory, not sure if it was mentioned before so sorry if it's repeated. I was reading through this threads last 20 pages or so and saw someone (can't remember who, sorry) mention that "Shepard's actions on The Citadel mirror Andersons."

This is supported by Anderson telling you what You are seeing, "I'm in some kind of dark hallway, lots of bodies, like the Collector base" (not an exact quote). as you walk on "I see some kind of chasm to cross" as you see said chasm. "This place is shifting" just before you see paneling/capacitors on either side of the chasm shift.

Further supported by, being forced to shoot Anderson in the left side of his abs, then later when you're sitting next to him (assuming you had enough paragon/renegade to stop The Illusive Man) you're clutching a wound in the same region that's now bleeding profusely.

IF there is a connection here, and the image of Anderson is somehow tied into your own subconscious, then when being shown your 3 choices, and a flashforward of Anderson choosing the "Destroy" option would leave that as the "real" option Shepard would choose. This can be further supported by the "Destroy" option showing the only extra scene of Shepard taking a surviving breath.

Feels like I'm grasping at straws, will have to play through Citadel: The Return to convince myself otherwise. What do you all think?

im one of several people who mentioned this point, one thing that supposrts it is that the wound your clutching at has a mysterious origin because yes you shoot anderson but anderson isnt holding a gun.... strikes again. lol

What i meant by that is, since you're forced to shoot Anderson you are essentially forced to shoot yourself, and that's mirrored by having a wound in the same area. But then the question, why dont You die when Anderson fades away? Possible answer; you ARE fading away and at that moment the Catalyst/godchild/starchild strikes now that your subconscious is wavering.

[Elscotto1989]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Elscotto1989 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Okay guys, random breakthrough on this Indoctrination Theory, not sure if it was mentioned before so sorry if it's repeated. I was reading through this threads last 20 pages or so and saw someone (can't remember who, sorry) mention that "Shepard's actions on The Citadel mirror Andersons."

This is supported by Anderson telling you what You are seeing, "I'm in some kind of dark hallway, lots of bodies, like the Collector base" (not an exact quote). as you walk on "I see some kind of chasm to cross" as you see said chasm. "This place is shifting" just before you see paneling/capacitors on either side of the chasm shift.

Further supported by, being forced to shoot Anderson in the left side of his abs, then later when you're sitting next to him (assuming you had enough paragon/renegade to stop The Illusive Man) you're clutching a wound in the same region that's now bleeding profusely.

IF there is a connection here, and the image of Anderson is somehow tied into your own subconscious, then when being shown your 3 choices, and a flashforward of Anderson choosing the "Destroy" option would leave that as the "real" option Shepard would choose. This can be further supported by the "Destroy" option showing the only extra scene of Shepard taking a surviving breath.

Feels like I'm grasping at straws, will have to play through Citadel: The Return to convince myself otherwise. What do you all think?

im one of several people who mentioned this point, one thing that supposrts it is that the wound your clutching at has a mysterious origin because yes you shoot anderson but anderson isnt holding a gun.... strikes again. lol

What i meant by that is, since you're forced to shoot Anderson you are essentially forced to shoot yourself, and that's mirrored by having a wound in the same area. But then the question, why dont You die when Anderson fades away? Possible answer; you ARE fading away and at that moment the Catalyst/godchild/starchild strikes now that your subconscious is wavering.

My point still stands the illusive man knows that anderson is such a bad*ss that he makes him shoot you without a gun.

[MegumiAzusa]

Icinix wrote...

Yeah - they could actually limit technological development quite easily. Show them a few magic tricks to developing worlds - pretend to be gods and forsake any technology and keep them in a perpetual state of cavemen.

There are a bajillion other solutions to letting them conquer the stars then butchering them.

Not if they want to assimilate biological and technological destinctiveness of other races and add it to their own perfection.

[Mastermadskills]

This is very interesting.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Elscotto1989 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Elscotto1989 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Okay guys, random breakthrough on this Indoctrination Theory, not sure if it was mentioned before so sorry if it's repeated. I was reading through this threads last 20 pages or so and saw someone (can't remember who, sorry) mention that "Shepard's actions on The Citadel mirror Andersons."

This is supported by Anderson telling you what You are seeing, "I'm in some kind of dark hallway, lots of bodies, like the Collector base" (not an exact quote). as you walk on "I see some kind of chasm to cross" as you see said chasm. "This place is shifting" just before you see paneling/capacitors on either side of the chasm shift.

Further supported by, being forced to shoot Anderson in the left side of his abs, then later when you're sitting next to him (assuming you had enough paragon/renegade to stop The Illusive Man) you're clutching a wound in the same region that's now bleeding profusely.

IF there is a connection here, and the image of Anderson is somehow tied into your own subconscious, then when being shown your 3 choices, and a flashforward of Anderson choosing the "Destroy" option would leave that as the "real" option Shepard would choose. This can be further supported by the "Destroy" option showing the only extra scene of Shepard taking a surviving breath.

Feels like I'm grasping at straws, will have to play through Citadel: The Return to convince myself otherwise. What do you all think?

im one of several people who mentioned this point, one thing that supposrts it is that the wound your clutching at has a mysterious origin because yes you shoot anderson but anderson isnt holding a gun.... strikes again. lol

What i meant by that is, since you're forced to shoot Anderson you are essentially forced to shoot yourself, and that's mirrored by having a wound in the same area. But then the question, why dont You die when Anderson fades away? Possible answer; you ARE fading away and at that moment the Catalyst/godchild/starchild strikes now that your subconscious is wavering.

My point still stands the illusive man knows that anderson is such a bad*ss that he makes him shoot you without a gun.

Moreover, if Anderson is representing Shepards mind, then The Illusive Man should then be representing his Indoctrination over you (meaning TIM is responsible for you being in the current hallucination/indoctrination), while the Catalyst and his "perfect" choice of "Synthesis" can represent the Reaper's indoctrination taking over after The Illusive Man failed.

[Icinix]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Yeah - they could actually limit technological development quite easily. Show them a few magic tricks to developing worlds - pretend to be gods and forsake any technology and keep them in a perpetual state of cavemen.

There are a bajillion other solutions to letting them conquer the stars then butchering them.

Not if they want to assimilate biological and technological destinctiveness of other races and add it to their own perfection.

Which is it though? Are they saving us from our own demise at the hands of synthetics - or do they desire to add whatever unique traits we have to their collection (which amuses me because of how much they hate us and think little of us.)

I belive the ending is indoctrination and thus the Reaper motivation is a lie to force Shepard down a path they do not want however, which is of course why any theory I bring up regarding why the Reapers do what they do is totally flawed.

[MDT1]

hismastersvoice wrote...

CitadelSurfer wrote...
I think (and I am just speculating here) The Harbinger is the prothean reaper. As in the final attempt to get to the beam you see him and he has like 4 eyes placed just like the protheans did. And as the protheans were the most advanced civilisation before humans/asari/turians etc etc he is the latest and best reaper?

Just a thought.

AFAIR, there is not Prothean based Reaper. They were indoctrinated and modified into Collectors, not harvested.

I don't think their leader would be the yongest reaper, except he is nothing special in fact.
Also ME3 that its quite doable to kill a Reaper sothey would haveto make new one in every cycle or get wiped out slowly.

[xChelseaSmile]

 'LookingGlassMind' blew my mind...

Maybe it's a reach to assume that Bioware could've come up with this, but even if they didn't...The theory works. Everything in this post makes me undoubtedly believe that the Indoctrination Theory is true. And that is unbelievable. This is why Mass Effect is the best game series of all time. No game has EVER indoctrinated me before...I have no words, really. 

[njfluffy19]

xChelseaSmile wrote...

 'LookingGlassMind' blew my mind...

Maybe it's a reach to assume that Bioware could've come up with this, but even if they didn't...The theory works. Everything in this post makes me undoubtedly believe that the Indoctrination Theory is true. And that is unbelievable. This is why Mass Effect is the best game series of all time. No game has EVER indoctrinated me before...I have no words, really. 

That's why I find it so hard to believe they didn't place all these clues on purpose. There's just so much evidence that builds up if you're looking in the right places. Granted, some of it is most likely reaching, but how can you explain all of it away?

Also, about Harby being Prothean, I believe in the codex it says he's one of the oldest Reapers? In ME2 it is clearly stated the Prothean race was not viable for Reaper-reaproduction! That is why the Collectors remain as their servant thralls.

[Erethrian]

IGN poll about the endings, let them know!

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

scroll down a bit on the left

www.facebook.com/ign

[Sammuthegreat]

UKillMeLongTime wrote...

at least jess refuted that post

--

Guys this was a misinformed individual who is helping us on our social media channels during our launch period. Nothing has changed I'm terms of the feedback we're gathering. If we had made a decision regarding this matter, we would have relayed it in a formal announcement.

I'm so proud of everyone who has been participating in surveys, polls, threads that politely address concerns and the overall positive nature of our community. Don't forget that many issues people had with DA2 was directly addressed with DLC like Legacy. This is a serious matter and I promise that our leadership is hearing your feedback.

Stay the course guys. This was a mistake within our internal communications, not a leak or announcement.

I'm locking this thread to avoid further confusion.

Small and possibly meaningless point, but note what Jess says - "Stay the course guys."

Stay the course.

Sounds awfully similar to "Hold the line" to me...

[nicotr23]

http://i.imgur.com/tQltejpg

look at this...incredible!!