57139 réponses à ce sujet

[iusty]

RedShft wrote...

Hey guys, unfortunately, as much as I love the idea of indoctrination theory it's hard for me to believe that it was the intended view of the ending. I've lost faith

Why so? To me it even makes sense (yes, self-delusion, I know . Things seem to tie together pretty well, starting back with Arrival and through ME3.

If we can't, and this is it, then IT will always be how I interpret the ending.

Agreed. Hold the line!

[Sammuthegreat]

tobito113 wrote...
There arent many plot holes

*snip*

Now that's just not true, is it.

[JTP117]

I also have 2 aditional theories on what Bioware is getting at.

1. Waiting for fans to uncover what they left behind and reveal what they got right/wrong and build off of that

2. intentionally leave weird plot holes and ambiguity so that fans can create how THEY want it to end. Then using the fan's ideas, create a continuation DLC.

The 2nd seems more likely considering the "Feedback" they are collecting and the promise that the players will "Get the closure they want"

[Chyliss]

lodgik wrote...

I just thought of something.

Let's assume that the indoc theory is right and shep wake up. He still need to attach the crusible and make it work. The only problem is that nobody know how it works not even shepard. It has been established by the game that the citadel is the catalyst right. I don't think there is going to be a magical button or a program that instently upload if you attach the crusible. So what races as the innate ability to make thing work, who are as mysterious as the reapers. THE KEEPERS, it has been establish in the games that they make everything happen in the citadel they repair it, rebuilt it etc... The keepers where always mysterious has on their origins and it as also been established that they are slaves to the reapers so whe can assume that they were once a race of the galaxie. What if they were the first races that built the crucible, what if they were the one who built the citadel. It would explain why they are so good at reparing it, why they understand so much about technologies and why the crucible and the citadel work in tandem.

Wouldn't it be awesome, destroyed by the same people whom you enslaved millions of years ago

There is a lot of what if but all i'm going to say is REAPERS, KEEPERS !!!!

Interesting. Go to 1:55 in the following you tube and what is the first thing you see when the beam "teleports" you to the "citadel"? A Keeper. And he looks right at you. I found it a tad freaky when I was at that stage in the game, lol.

[Sammuthegreat]

Chyliss wrote...

lodgik wrote...

I just thought of something.

Let's assume that the indoc theory is right and shep wake up. He still need to attach the crusible and make it work. The only problem is that nobody know how it works not even shepard. It has been established by the game that the citadel is the catalyst right. I don't think there is going to be a magical button or a program that instently upload if you attach the crusible. So what races as the innate ability to make thing work, who are as mysterious as the reapers. THE KEEPERS, it has been establish in the games that they make everything happen in the citadel they repair it, rebuilt it etc... The keepers where always mysterious has on their origins and it as also been established that they are slaves to the reapers so whe can assume that they were once a race of the galaxie. What if they were the first races that built the crucible, what if they were the one who built the citadel. It would explain why they are so good at reparing it, why they understand so much about technologies and why the crucible and the citadel work in tandem.

Wouldn't it be awesome, destroyed by the same people whom you enslaved millions of years ago

There is a lot of what if but all i'm going to say is REAPERS, KEEPERS !!!!

Interesting. Go to 1:55 in the following you tube and what is the first thing you see when the beam "teleports" you to the "citadel"? A Keeper. And he looks right at you. I found it a tad freaky when I was at that stage in the game, lol.

I must admit, I too thought it was conspicuous that there was a keeper in that scene. It's not like they'd played a prominent role throughout the rest of ME3. Admittedly the keeper might have been placed there just to confirm that Shepard was on the Citadel, but it seems like a sudden and odd thrusting into the limelight.

I think you're onto something here. No-one knows the Citadel like the keepers do, and they might have found something that no other race has managed to... let's face it, they wouldn't have told anyone, would they?

Modifié par Sammuthegreat, 19 mars 2012 - 07:14 .

[Kanon777]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

tobito113 wrote...
There arent many plot holes

*snip*

Now that's just not true, is it.

There arent many plot holes compared to many holes bioware did to this story before (like project lazarus, arrival changing the idea that you cant destroy mass relays)

Most plot holes i can think can be (poorly) explained.

As Jessica Merizzan said, joker heard Hacket tell Hammer to pull back and left earth (there is hidden dialogue about him saving the crew)

Dead companions returning to the normandy can be simply a flag issue (like when Varric said Hawke loved Merril and Isabela at the same time on DA2's epilogue)

The fact that Sheppard never questions what the Guardian said is explained in the App. They removed investigate options aspect because we didnt need al the answers.

Modifié par tobito113, 19 mars 2012 - 07:16 .

[ImmovableMover]

Okay so IT is probably the most interesting thing i've read for a long time and, frankly, even if Bioware had never thought of it at all, they should be stealing it right now because It would be a work of Interactive art genius.

That being said, I've got a question or two and I apologise if it has been answered before but I am simply not reading through 721 pages of this thread on the off chance it has been answered. Sue me.

Assuming IT is true, completely true, What exactly does that mean for the post-credits "Man and boy" scene? That scene makes the most sense (not much, but the most) if IT isn't true, that the Mass Relays were destroyed and that Galactic civilization has become Isolated again. If IT *is* true, then where has that scene come from and why are they isolated on a planet with only stories of a past, unified galaxy?

The only way I can see it fitting in with IT is if you chose one of the two "Indoctrination" endings (synthesis or control) and that scene actually takes place some time into the next cycle; Indoctrination of Shepard having inevitably led to a Reaper Victory. But thanks to the Message in a Bottle Liara created, they knew about the "Legend of Shepard", like the prothean beacons.

BTW does anyone have a picture of that thing? it retrospectively reminds me of both the Beam to the citadel and the Crucible beam.

[Martukis]

tobito113 wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

tobito113 wrote...
There arent many plot holes

*snip*

Now that's just not true, is it.

There arent many plot holes compared to many holes bioware did to this story before (like project lazarus, arrival changing the idea that you cant destroy mass relays)

Most plot holes i can think can be (poorly) explained.

As Jessica Merizzan said, joker heard Hacket tell Hammer to pull back and left earth (there is hidden dialogue about him saving the crew)

Dead companions returning to the normandy can be simply a flag issue (like when Varric said Hawke loved Merril and Isabela at the same time on DA2's epilogue)

The fact that Sheppard never questions what the Guardian said is explained in the App. They removed investigate options aspect because we didnt need al the answers.

 I'm pretty sure we've been warned that the Final Hours app is not necessarily canon.

[JTP117]

Martukis wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

tobito113 wrote...
There arent many plot holes

*snip*

Now that's just not true, is it.

There arent many plot holes compared to many holes bioware did to this story before (like project lazarus, arrival changing the idea that you cant destroy mass relays)

Most plot holes i can think can be (poorly) explained.

As Jessica Merizzan said, joker heard Hacket tell Hammer to pull back and left earth (there is hidden dialogue about him saving the crew)

Dead companions returning to the normandy can be simply a flag issue (like when Varric said Hawke loved Merril and Isabela at the same time on DA2's epilogue)

The fact that Sheppard never questions what the Guardian said is explained in the App. They removed investigate options aspect because we didnt need al the answers.

 I'm pretty sure we've been warned that the Final Hours app is not necessarily canon.

They've said that several times as a matter of fact lol

[Sammuthegreat]

tobito113 wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

tobito113 wrote...
There arent many plot holes

*snip*

Now that's just not true, is it.

There arent many plot holes compared to many holes bioware did to this story before (like project lazarus, arrival changing the idea that you cant destroy mass relays)

Most plot holes i can think can be (poorly) explained.

As Jessica Merizzan said, joker heard Hacket tell Hammer to pull back and left earth (there is hidden dialogue about him saving the crew)

Dead companions returning to the normandy can be simply a flag issue (like when Varric said Hawke loved Merril and Isabela at the same time on DA2's epilogue)

The fact that Sheppard never questions what the Guardian said is explained in the App. They removed investigate options aspect because we didnt need al the answers.

This convenient list of plot holes disagrees with you.

[crimsontotem]

Hackett asking Shepard that 'something is wrong at your end' and Shepard 'breathing' scene is the foremost two strong reason why I am still into this theory.

I didn't see anyone coming up with rebuttal for those two 'in-game' evidences,

bottom line: Hold the Line!

[Kanon777]

Martukis wrote...

 I'm pretty sure we've been warned that the Final Hours app is not necessarily canon.

The person who said that (Jessica), later clarified she does not speak for anyone but herself, she was just a community manager and was speculating with us about the Indocrination Theory, not giving any hints or anything like that. 

[Cloud Varis]

tobito113 wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

tobito113 wrote...
There arent many plot holes

*snip*

Now that's just not true, is it.

There arent many plot holes compared to many holes bioware did to this story before (like project lazarus, arrival changing the idea that you cant destroy mass relays)

Most plot holes i can think can be (poorly) explained.

As Jessica Merizzan said, joker heard Hacket tell Hammer to pull back and left earth (there is hidden dialogue about him saving the crew)

Dead companions returning to the normandy can be simply a flag issue (like when Varric said Hawke loved Merril and Isabela at the same time on DA2's epilogue)

The fact that Sheppard never questions what the Guardian said is explained in the App. They removed investigate options aspect because we didnt need al the answers.

First, anything taken from the app is obviously going to avoid giving any answers about their ambiguous ending.

Second:
EDI showing up in the final cutscene for "Destroy" if you take her on the last mission (despite implying that she would die), Shepard showing up alive in a pile of rubble on Earth in the "Destroy" option (and only that option, the supposedly renegade one - again, despite implying that he would die, both as a result of "destroying synthetic life" AND as a result of the freakin' Citadel exploding), Shepard growing Saren/TIM's indoctrination eyes in the other two options..
There are still many inconsistancies you haven't accounted for. And when you start getting consistancies in your inconsistancies, they begin to warrant a second look.

Edit: About th previous inconsistancies: I'm not sure what's inconsistant about Lazarus, but at least they explained the "indestructable relays" part in-game. Saying there aren't that many also doesn't seem accurate - I'm almost positive the last ten minutes of ME3 had more plotholes than the rest of the series put together. My suspension of disbelief has never felt so strained.

Modifié par Cloud Varis, 19 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[RedShft]

crimsontotem wrote...

Hackett asking Shepard that 'something is wrong at your end' and Shepard 'breathing' scene is the foremost two strong reason why I am still into this theory.

I didn't see anyone coming up with rebuttal for those two 'in-game' evidences,

bottom line: Hold the Line!

What about Hackett and "Something is wrong at your end" ? How do you think this ties into IT?

[Ona Demonie]

HOLD ON. There was a statement last night where BW said they weren't changing the endings (but later retracted)?

[sjrskl]

All I can say is no one has given a valid reason why you can hear femshep and manshep when the catalyst is talking, that alone points to something isn't right (which coincides with the indoctrination theory). Why would they go through the trouble of recording that dialogue if it didn't mean something ?

[RedShft]

Ona Demonie wrote...

HOLD ON. There was a statement last night where BW said they weren't changing the endings (but later retracted)?

Yes.

[JTP117]

RedShft wrote...

crimsontotem wrote...

Hackett asking Shepard that 'something is wrong at your end' and Shepard 'breathing' scene is the foremost two strong reason why I am still into this theory.

I didn't see anyone coming up with rebuttal for those two 'in-game' evidences,

bottom line: Hold the Line!

What about Hackett and "Something is wrong at your end" ? How do you think this ties into IT?

well supposedly no one saw Shepard OR Anderson get into the portal/beam. They were presumed KIA so how did Hacket automatically know to contact Shepard about the crucible not working? And how did they communicate at all? I thought the beam/ citadel was jamming most signals (the targeting systems for the missles)

[Kanon777]

Cloud Varis wrote...
Second:
EDI showing up in the final cutscene for "Destroy" if you take her on the last mission (despite implying that she would die), Shepard showing up alive in a pile of rubble on Earth in the "Destroy" option (and only that option, the supposedly renegade one - again, despite implying that he would die, both as a result of "destroying synthetic life" AND as a result of the freakin' Citadel exploding), Shepard growing Saren/TIM's indoctrination eyes in the other two options..
There are still many inconsistancies you haven't accounted for. And when you start getting consistancies in your inconsistancies, they begin to warrant a second look.

The EDI  thing could be a flagging issue, its not the first time a Bioware game has the problem...

Im watching the scene where shep wakes up, there is not only broken concrete around him, but some wierd blue tubes with black stripes, if someone can confirm if London ground also had those tubes we would have good evidence.

Im replaying the last part right now to try and confirm it

[AdmiralsJack]

RedShft wrote...

Ona Demonie wrote...

HOLD ON. There was a statement last night where BW said they weren't changing the endings (but later retracted)?

Yes.

and they clarified that this statement was made by an ill-informed person and isnt BW's position

Modifié par AdmiralsJack, 19 mars 2012 - 07:36 .

[RedShft]

JTP117 wrote...

RedShft wrote...

crimsontotem wrote...

Hackett asking Shepard that 'something is wrong at your end' and Shepard 'breathing' scene is the foremost two strong reason why I am still into this theory.

I didn't see anyone coming up with rebuttal for those two 'in-game' evidences,

bottom line: Hold the Line!

What about Hackett and "Something is wrong at your end" ? How do you think this ties into IT?

well supposedly no one saw Shepard OR Anderson get into the portal/beam. They were presumed KIA so how did Hacket automatically know to contact Shepard about the crucible not working? And how did they communicate at all? I thought the beam/ citadel was jamming most signals (the targeting systems for the missles)

True. The plot thickens! Dun dun dunnnnnnnnn.

[Sammuthegreat]

sjrskl wrote...

All I can say is no one has given a valid reason why you can hear femshep and manshep when the catalyst is talking, that alone points to something isn't right (which coincides with the indoctrination theory). Why would they go through the trouble of recording that dialogue if it didn't mean something ?

Speaking of dialogue recording, BioWare are in a very difficult position if the Indoc Theory doesn't turn out to be true. If the whole shebang wasn't planned, then in order to extend the ending (and thereby avoid alienating a huge chunk of their fanbase), they'd need to get ALL the voice actors back in, and record many more hours of dialogue...

Let's hope the Indoc Theory's true, eh?

[Ona Demonie]

AdmiralsJack wrote...

RedShft wrote...

Ona Demonie wrote...

HOLD ON. There was a statement last night where BW said they weren't changing the endings (but later retracted)?

Yes.

and they clarified that this statement was made by an ill-informed person and isnt BW's position

Oh, thank Marauder Shields! Did this person even work for BW?

[JTP117]

Ona Demonie wrote...

AdmiralsJack wrote...

RedShft wrote...

Ona Demonie wrote...

HOLD ON. There was a statement last night where BW said they weren't changing the endings (but later retracted)?

Yes.

and they clarified that this statement was made by an ill-informed person and isnt BW's position

Oh, thank Marauder Shields! Did this person even work for BW?

Yes but he/she was a rookie

[Kanon777]

Well the dark-grey blue color pallete is the same for london and the secret ending but i havent seen the blue/black tubes yet (they looked to me like alien technology)...