57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Vandicus]

Elp wrote...

 I think the biggest problem with Indoctrination Theory is the fact that is doesn't explain why there was a cutscene of the Crucible fireing and showing what happened to the galaxy.If the entire ending is just Sheppard fighting indoctrination, and none of it had any real effect, the Crucible wouldn't have fired. 

You could say the fireing of the Crucible was also a hallucination. But whose hallucination would that be? It certainly isn't shown from the Sheppard perspective.
Also, if you succesfully fight the indoctrination by chosing the Destroy option, the indoctrination ends so there shouldn't be anymore hallucinations. Yet, you still see the Crucible fireing. According to the InDoc Theory, that shouldn't have happened. Which means that the Crucible fireing cannot be a hallucination. It actually fired. If the Crucible fired, it means Sheppard was successfull in fireing it.

Another problem with the Indoctrination Theory is the Stargazer scene. Apparently humanity survived (with advanced space flight capability), that can only be if the Reapers were stopped. This is a second indication that the Crucible was actually used.

I do believe there was some kind of 'hallucination', but it's purpose wasn't to deceive Sheppard and it didn't start when Sheppard was hit by the laser beam. I want to believe that Sheppard passed out on the elevator platform near the control panel and the Child detects this. The Child knows the cycle is no longer a valid Solution because over the years the Organics keep getting closer to completing the Crucible and now they have succeeded. The Child interfaces with the mind of the unconscious Sheppard in order to give him The Choice. This isn't that farfetched when you consider that InDoc works in a similar fashion and apparently the much less advanced Geth have similar technology. 

The symbolism used in The Choice scene shows that this part is NOT real. The Destroy option is triggered by shooting a conduit, that doesn't make any sense from an engineering/mechanical perspective. However, it does make sense when you see the gun as a symbol for destruction. It also explains the Child itself, the Catalyst has entered Sheppard's mind and has chosen a familiar form to represent itself (cliché, I know).
Although the appearance of The Choice isn't real, The Choice itself is and it's effects are. The Crucible fires, Sheppard dies unless he choses the Destroy options, etc. etc. 


It's still a very poor ending, and offers no incentive at all to re-play either ME3 or its predecessors, but to me it's the only way for it to make sense. It's somewhat of a hybrid theory between InDoc Theory, and the uhm.. 'Everything was real' theory. 

The indoctrination theory holds that Shepard's indoctrination only ends AFTER he wakes up in the breath scene. So this is actually after the Crucible supposedly fires. The indoctrination theory never states that Shepard fails to activate the Crucible or stop the Reapers, it states that we just haven't seen it happen yet.

[Lemonite]

masturch33f wrote...

Hi all,

dont know if it has been mentioned yet, but since everything depends on Shepard waking up in London, has anyone yet brought up an explanation why the rebars in the concrete look nearly identical to the cables on the citadel?

In Fact they are everywhere around the the place Shepard would be standing in the destruction ending.
Of course they dont look like cables in the vid, they dont bend and seem to be stiff. But the texture is very very similar.

Also, are you absolutely sure there are buildings in the background? Im not 100% sure anymore if its not just more rubble.

Not sure, could be a texture reuse.

As for the buildings, that's really debatable. It's hard to see the background due to all of the dust and smoke, but there does appear to be shapes like buildings, though it could just be more rubble.

[Vandicus]

GriffinXP wrote...

N7xELITE wrote...

BioWare considering changing Mass Effect 3 ending

Will gamers get a new Mass Effect 3 ending? BioWare hasn't ruled it out. Writing on the official Mass Effect 3 Facebook page last night, the company said it has not yet decided whether it will offer fans a new ending to the space-faring role-playing game.


Could Mass Effect 3 have a different ending?
"We would like to clarify that we are actively and seriously taking all player feedback into consideration and have ruled nothing out," reads the statement. "At this time we are still collecting and considering your feedback and have not made a decision regarding requests to change the ending."

Mass Effect 3 launched on March 6 to a warm critical reception and heat from users regarding the game's ending and its day-one downloadable content, From Ashes. Regarding the end to Mass Effect 3, executive producer Casey Hudson said last week that he wanted the game to be memorable, admitting that the conclusion was intentionally designed to get gamers talking.

Members of the Mass Effect community have formed the charity petition called Retake Mass Effect ChipIn fund, collecting PayPal donations for the Child's Play charity as a way of encouraging BioWare to make alternate Mass Effect 3 endings. As of press time, the fund has amassed over $67,000.

Concerning the From Ashes DLC, Hudson has defended the content, noting that work did not begin until after the developer finished Mass Effect 3. Electronic Arts later revealed that parts of the DLC were included on game discs.

Wait.  Wasn't almost everything from the From Ashes DLC a part of the original game?  I seem to remember that the leaked script had Javik in it.

No, Javik was shipped with ME3, the rest of it wasn't. Bioware stated that shipping the character himself made implementation a lot easier. Typically Bioware starts programming their first DLC after the game has shipped, before the game has been released. That's why we see a fairly rapid release of their first DLC whenever they make a new game nowadays.

[JTP117]

Elp wrote...

 I think the biggest problem with Indoctrination Theory is the fact that is doesn't explain why there was a cutscene of the Crucible fireing and showing what happened to the galaxy.If the entire ending is just Sheppard fighting indoctrination, and none of it had any real effect, the Crucible wouldn't have fired. 

You could say the fireing of the Crucible was also a hallucination. But whose hallucination would that be? It certainly isn't shown from the Sheppard perspective.
Also, if you succesfully fight the indoctrination by chosing the Destroy option, the indoctrination ends so there shouldn't be anymore hallucinations. Yet, you still see the Crucible fireing. According to the InDoc Theory, that shouldn't have happened. Which means that the Crucible fireing cannot be a hallucination. It actually fired. If the Crucible fired, it means Sheppard was successfull in fireing it.

Another problem with the Indoctrination Theory is the Stargazer scene. Apparently humanity survived (with advanced space flight capability), that can only be if the Reapers were stopped. This is a second indication that the Crucible was actually used.

I do believe there was some kind of 'hallucination', but it's purpose wasn't to deceive Sheppard and it didn't start when Sheppard was hit by the laser beam. I want to believe that Sheppard passed out on the elevator platform near the control panel and the Child detects this. The Child knows the cycle is no longer a valid Solution because over the years the Organics keep getting closer to completing the Crucible and now they have succeeded. The Child interfaces with the mind of the unconscious Sheppard in order to give him The Choice. This isn't that farfetched when you consider that InDoc works in a similar fashion and apparently the much less advanced Geth have similar technology. 

The symbolism used in The Choice scene shows that this part is NOT real. The Destroy option is triggered by shooting a conduit, that doesn't make any sense from an engineering/mechanical perspective. However, it does make sense when you see the gun as a symbol for destruction. It also explains the Child itself, the Catalyst has entered Sheppard's mind and has chosen a familiar form to represent itself (cliché, I know).
Although the appearance of The Choice isn't real, The Choice itself is and it's effects are. (highlighted as the tl;dr version of this post) The Crucible fires, Sheppard dies unless he choses the Destroy options, etc. etc. 


It's still a very poor ending, and offers no incentive at all to re-play either ME3 or its predecessors, but to me it's the only way for it to make sense. It's somewhat of a hybrid theory between InDoc Theory, and the uhm.. 'Everything was real' theory. 

The main theory is that whether he became fully indoctrianted or not, he is still unconscious afterwards. Think of it as a vivid dream. Certainly if he can dream the choice itself he could dream the consequences of that choice don't you think?

[N7xELITE]

here

[Lemonite]

Vandicus wrote...

GriffinXP wrote...

Wait.  Wasn't almost everything from the From Ashes DLC a part of the original game?  I seem to remember that the leaked script had Javik in it.

No, Javik was shipped with ME3, the rest of it wasn't. Bioware stated that shipping the character himself made implementation a lot easier. Typically Bioware starts programming their first DLC after the game has shipped, before the game has been released. That's why we see a fairly rapid release of their first DLC whenever they make a new game nowadays.

Javik seems pretty integrated into the game to be a post-production created character... <_<

[SirLugash]

@Elp : Problem is: The game as it is on disc needs a defnitive ending.
It could be also explained as his final thoughts, how he wants it to end for himself and his crew while giving his mind away.
Not all people would dowloadd the extension to this story if there will every be one, so for those, the game must end at this point as it does.
If IT is right and here will be DLC, it probably alters the outcome of Destroy.

[Shock n Awe]

So Indoctrination can be broken temporarily (TIM shooting himself, Grayson's moments of clarity in the books), so if a DLC is released, what if choosing Destroy is Shepard's will overcoming it, not permanently, but long enough to destroy the Reapers (which could possibly end indoctrination).

For the rest of the gameplay in the DLC, you would hear continuous whispers, Harbinger taunting Shepard, and maybe even some hallucinations and cringes from headaches during the gameplay, until you destroy the Reapers (or, if you get indoctrinated, help them win and witness the sad, everybody dies ending that would hopefully be packaged as well, perhaps with several other intermediate-type endings).

[N7xELITE]

[JTP117]

SirLugash wrote...

@Elp : Problem is: The game as it is on disc needs a defnitive ending.
It could be also explained as his final thoughts, how he wants it to end for himself and his crew while giving his mind away.
Not all people would dowloadd the extension to this story if there will every be one, so for those, the game must end at this point as it does.
If IT is right and here will be DLC, it probably alters the outcome of Destroy.

Basically it would be like the end of ME2, if your shepard dies, that's it. Same goes for ME3, if you chose destroy, your shepard has the chance to move forward in the story.

[Vandicus]

Lemonite wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

GriffinXP wrote...

Wait.  Wasn't almost everything from the From Ashes DLC a part of the original game?  I seem to remember that the leaked script had Javik in it.

No, Javik was shipped with ME3, the rest of it wasn't. Bioware stated that shipping the character himself made implementation a lot easier. Typically Bioware starts programming their first DLC after the game has shipped, before the game has been released. That's why we see a fairly rapid release of their first DLC whenever they make a new game nowadays.

Javik seems pretty integrated into the game to be a post-production created character... <_<

Javik wasn't post production. The rest of From the Ashes was. I pretty much ignored Javik so I'm not quite sure what you mean by integrated, but the rest of the content, if we're to believe Bioware's statements, was. Its possible they produced it and had us download it(the rest of From the Ashes must be downloaded, unlike Javik who can be hacked out), but then we're pretty much down to speculation.

[JTP117]

Shock n Awe wrote...

So Indoctrination can be broken temporarily (TIM shooting himself, Grayson's moments of clarity in the books), so if a DLC is released, what if choosing Destroy is Shepard's will overcoming it, not permanently, but long enough to destroy the Reapers (which could possibly end indoctrination).

For the rest of the gameplay in the DLC, you would hear continuous whispers, Harbinger taunting Shepard, and maybe even some hallucinations and cringes from headaches during the gameplay, until you destroy the Reapers (or, if you get indoctrinated, help them win and witness the sad, everybody dies ending that would hopefully be packaged as well, perhaps with several other intermediate-type endings).

That is a very cool idea.

[Balteus]

A quick question if you choose destroy do you see EDI on the paradise planet?

[GriffinXP]

Lemonite wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

GriffinXP wrote...

Wait.  Wasn't almost everything from the From Ashes DLC a part of the original game?  I seem to remember that the leaked script had Javik in it.

No, Javik was shipped with ME3, the rest of it wasn't. Bioware stated that shipping the character himself made implementation a lot easier. Typically Bioware starts programming their first DLC after the game has shipped, before the game has been released. That's why we see a fairly rapid release of their first DLC whenever they make a new game nowadays.

Javik seems pretty integrated into the game to be a post-production created character... <_<

I agree.  My only point is that I seem to remember Javik appearing in the ME3 script that leaked months prior to the game's release. 

[JTP117]

Balteus wrote...

A quick question if you choose destroy do you see EDI on the paradise planet?

Yes, she has been seen several times by several people

[ArkkAngel007]

Lemonite wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

GriffinXP wrote...

Wait.  Wasn't almost everything from the From Ashes DLC a part of the original game?  I seem to remember that the leaked script had Javik in it.

No, Javik was shipped with ME3, the rest of it wasn't. Bioware stated that shipping the character himself made implementation a lot easier. Typically Bioware starts programming their first DLC after the game has shipped, before the game has been released. That's why we see a fairly rapid release of their first DLC whenever they make a new game nowadays.

Javik seems pretty integrated into the game to be a post-production created character... <_<

Yeah, his character and lines are in the main game, but not his mission, which was never part of that game.

Back in concept and the first complete draft, there was a mission to Eden Prime, where you go with at least the partner of the VS (The VS was a SPECTRE from the very beginning I do believe).  Anyways, a Prothean on the planet gets out of stasis, through Cerberus I believe, and kills everyone in its path.  That means Alliance, Cerberus, and civilians.  You finally catch up to the Partner, who is ready to kill the Prothean.  You as the player are forced to kill the partner to save the Prothean, as you need it to decipher Prothean technology.

However, the character was removed from the story by the script when development began due to the characters poorly executed role in the story.  However, BioWare used the assets to provide the Prothean to fans in a nonessential role and mission.

[Runcowards]

is it ever explained how TIM goes from controlling reaper troops and trying to control reapers to being able to control Shepard and Anderson at the end? because if not might be another thing you could chalk up to supporting this theory, if its already been brought up before i apologize, this thread is growing too fast for me to keep up with it

[ArkkAngel007]

JTP117 wrote...

Balteus wrote...

A quick question if you choose destroy do you see EDI on the paradise planet?

Yes, she has been seen several times by several people

In destroy?  Can I get a link please?  This is news to me.

[JTP117]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

Balteus wrote...

A quick question if you choose destroy do you see EDI on the paradise planet?

Yes, she has been seen several times by several people

In destroy?  Can I get a link please?  This is news to me.

It was earlier in this thread that we were talking about it, back in the 600's. I have no idea how far back tho lol sorry, let me see if I can find something

Basically the initial reasoning is that her body was the only synthetic thing about her, the bulk of what she was was on the normandy, and shepard, being held together by synthetics ala project lazarus, survived when it should have killed him too. Basically from people seeing EDI and the scene where shep is breathing kinda confirms that the godchild was bluffing

Modifié par JTP117, 19 mars 2012 - 10:33 .

[N7xELITE]

Even if BioWare do not release a new ending they still have to answer how the hell Shepard survived being blown up by the citadel and being burned to a crisp by the atmosphere and still breathing after ( maybe Shepard hacked himself )

[wantedman dan]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

Balteus wrote...

A quick question if you choose destroy do you see EDI on the paradise planet?

Yes, she has been seen several times by several people

In destroy?  Can I get a link please?  This is news to me.

Same here. That was one reason the destroy ending depressed me so badly: seeing EDI die.

[GriffinXP]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Yeah, his character and lines are in the main game, but not his mission, which was never part of that game.

Back in concept and the first complete draft, there was a mission to Eden Prime, where you go with at least the partner of the VS (The VS was a SPECTRE from the very beginning I do believe).  Anyways, a Prothean on the planet gets out of stasis, through Cerberus I believe, and kills everyone in its path.  That means Alliance, Cerberus, and civilians.  You finally catch up to the Partner, who is ready to kill the Prothean.  You as the player are forced to kill the partner to save the Prothean, as you need it to decipher Prothean technology.

However, the character was removed from the story by the script when development began due to the characters poorly executed role in the story.  However, BioWare used the assets to provide the Prothean to fans in a nonessential role and mission.

Ah, that makes sense.  Thank you.

[Elp]

Vandicus wrote...

Elp wrote...

 I think the biggest problem with Indoctrination Theory is the fact that is doesn't explain why there was a cutscene of the Crucible fireing and showing what happened to the galaxy.If the entire ending is just Sheppard fighting indoctrination, and none of it had any real effect, the Crucible wouldn't have fired. 

You could say the fireing of the Crucible was also a hallucination. But whose hallucination would that be? It certainly isn't shown from the Sheppard perspective.
Also, if you succesfully fight the indoctrination by chosing the Destroy option, the indoctrination ends so there shouldn't be anymore hallucinations. Yet, you still see the Crucible fireing. According to the InDoc Theory, that shouldn't have happened. Which means that the Crucible fireing cannot be a hallucination. It actually fired. If the Crucible fired, it means Sheppard was successfull in fireing it.

Another problem with the Indoctrination Theory is the Stargazer scene. Apparently humanity survived (with advanced space flight capability), that can only be if the Reapers were stopped. This is a second indication that the Crucible was actually used.

I do believe there was some kind of 'hallucination', but it's purpose wasn't to deceive Sheppard and it didn't start when Sheppard was hit by the laser beam. I want to believe that Sheppard passed out on the elevator platform near the control panel and the Child detects this. The Child knows the cycle is no longer a valid Solution because over the years the Organics keep getting closer to completing the Crucible and now they have succeeded. The Child interfaces with the mind of the unconscious Sheppard in order to give him The Choice. This isn't that farfetched when you consider that InDoc works in a similar fashion and apparently the much less advanced Geth have similar technology. 

The symbolism used in The Choice scene shows that this part is NOT real. The Destroy option is triggered by shooting a conduit, that doesn't make any sense from an engineering/mechanical perspective. However, it does make sense when you see the gun as a symbol for destruction. It also explains the Child itself, the Catalyst has entered Sheppard's mind and has chosen a familiar form to represent itself (cliché, I know).
Although the appearance of The Choice isn't real, The Choice itself is and it's effects are. The Crucible fires, Sheppard dies unless he choses the Destroy options, etc. etc. 


It's still a very poor ending, and offers no incentive at all to re-play either ME3 or its predecessors, but to me it's the only way for it to make sense. It's somewhat of a hybrid theory between InDoc Theory, and the uhm.. 'Everything was real' theory. 

The indoctrination theory holds that Shepard's indoctrination only ends AFTER he wakes up in the breath scene. So this is actually after the Crucible supposedly fires. The indoctrination theory never states that Shepard fails to activate the Crucible or stop the Reapers, it states that we just haven't seen it happen yet.

But that can't be. The  hallucination supposedly starts when Sheppard is knocked out by the giant laser beam, he isn't even near the Crucible at that time. So he somehow fired the Crucible while indoctrinated while not even making it to the transporter beam? That doesn't make sense.

Either he truelly made it  to the Citadel and there was no hallucination, or he was knocked out by the giant laser beam and started hallucinating the ending. In that case, there no way he could have fired the Crucible.

[Terran235]

What if the whole final act is an expansion pack? Not DLC, but a fullblown expansion pack.

Modifié par Terran235, 19 mars 2012 - 10:35 .

[JTP117]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

Balteus wrote...

A quick question if you choose destroy do you see EDI on the paradise planet?

Yes, she has been seen several times by several people

In destroy?  Can I get a link please?  This is news to me.

http://www.gamefaqs....62248623        here, they talk about it quite a bit here