57139 réponses à ce sujet

[N7xELITE]

Hi I am commander Shepard and this is my favourite idea on the forum

[Golferguy758]

Confirmed that there's an ace up BW's sleeve. Just tweeted them: So is there an Ace up BW's sleeve/something you all know that we don't? Don't answer if it's true. =P


I've got desperate jokes

[JTP117]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

Balteus wrote...

A quick question if you choose destroy do you see EDI on the paradise planet?

Yes, she has been seen several times by several people

In destroy?  Can I get a link please?  This is news to me.

It was earlier in this thread that we were talking about it, back in the 600's. I have no idea how far back tho lol sorry, let me see if I can find something

Basically the initial reasoning is that her body was the only synthetic thing about her, the bulk of what she was was on the normandy, and shepard, being held together by synthetics ala project lazarus, survived when it should have killed him too. Basically from people seeing EDI and the scene where shep is breathing kinda confirms that the godchild was bluffing

But then the Normandy crash was real.  Shepard's mind wouldn't be like "HA! I gotcha you little ****!".

So then the ending really happened with that train of thought.

Like I said before, everything from shepard getting hit by the laser to him waking up in rubbe is a halucination. He is dreaming so to speak, of how the choice he made would affect the galaxy. Which explains the squadmate/joker teleport plothole, dreams are almost never linear, they jump around a lot. It's just his mind making sense of the supposed "decision" he just made.

[theplowbehindyou]

Terran235 wrote...

Well thats fine for you but i like my happy endings.

This is the one thing I just don't understand/agree with.

I just want the ending to make more sense. If it ends sadly (regardless of if Shepard completes the mission successfully or not) then I'm perfectly fine with that. Originally before I finished the game I was actually hoping that they would make it a sad ending (or bittersweet at least).

I've been following this thread for a while and I largely agree with the criticisms; not necessarily the over-analyzation of the indoctrination aspect. I hope Bioware at least explain their reasoning for the original ending and any expansions or revisions they make but I really hope they don't just make it so it's a "happy" ending just to appease disgruntled fans.

[Sammuthegreat]

JTP117 wrote...

Elp wrote...

 I think the biggest problem with Indoctrination Theory is the fact that is doesn't explain why there was a cutscene of the Crucible fireing and showing what happened to the galaxy.If the entire ending is just Sheppard fighting indoctrination, and none of it had any real effect, the Crucible wouldn't have fired. 

You could say the fireing of the Crucible was also a hallucination. But whose hallucination would that be? It certainly isn't shown from the Sheppard perspective.
Also, if you succesfully fight the indoctrination by chosing the Destroy option, the indoctrination ends so there shouldn't be anymore hallucinations. Yet, you still see the Crucible fireing. According to the InDoc Theory, that shouldn't have happened. Which means that the Crucible fireing cannot be a hallucination. It actually fired. If the Crucible fired, it means Sheppard was successfull in fireing it.

Another problem with the Indoctrination Theory is the Stargazer scene. Apparently humanity survived (with advanced space flight capability), that can only be if the Reapers were stopped. This is a second indication that the Crucible was actually used.

I do believe there was some kind of 'hallucination', but it's purpose wasn't to deceive Sheppard and it didn't start when Sheppard was hit by the laser beam. I want to believe that Sheppard passed out on the elevator platform near the control panel and the Child detects this. The Child knows the cycle is no longer a valid Solution because over the years the Organics keep getting closer to completing the Crucible and now they have succeeded. The Child interfaces with the mind of the unconscious Sheppard in order to give him The Choice. This isn't that farfetched when you consider that InDoc works in a similar fashion and apparently the much less advanced Geth have similar technology. 

The symbolism used in The Choice scene shows that this part is NOT real. The Destroy option is triggered by shooting a conduit, that doesn't make any sense from an engineering/mechanical perspective. However, it does make sense when you see the gun as a symbol for destruction. It also explains the Child itself, the Catalyst has entered Sheppard's mind and has chosen a familiar form to represent itself (cliché, I know).
Although the appearance of The Choice isn't real, The Choice itself is and it's effects are. (highlighted as the tl;dr version of this post) The Crucible fires, Sheppard dies unless he choses the Destroy options, etc. etc. 


It's still a very poor ending, and offers no incentive at all to re-play either ME3 or its predecessors, but to me it's the only way for it to make sense. It's somewhat of a hybrid theory between InDoc Theory, and the uhm.. 'Everything was real' theory. 

The main theory is that whether he became fully indoctrianted or not, he is still unconscious afterwards. Think of it as a vivid dream. Certainly if he can dream the choice itself he could dream the consequences of that choice don't you think?

Exactly. As for the camera angles, well, on Sanctuary there was footage from security cams where the camera angle changed as though someone was controlling the camera. It's a little bit of artistic licence to make it look more cinematic, even though it doesn't make sense.

[ArkkAngel007]

JTP117 wrote...


Well as far as the delusions, they aren't PTSD, they are the product of indoctrination. Read the codex entry in the game on it, it will explain a lot

By delusions you mean dreams?  I might have missed the delusions being mentioned in that post considering its length.  But the nightmares are real and the child's presence is due to PTSD.  That is mentioned in the script and Shepard/the crew allude to his/her state through dialogue and actions.

However, that doesn't mean that can't be a possible vector for the Reapers to take advantage of.

[JTP117]

N7xELITE wrote...

Hi I am commander Shepard and this is my favourite idea on the forum

Ah, ya beat me to it 

[N7xELITE]

Indoctrination

Indoctrination is the term used for the brainwashing effect the Reapers have on organic beings. A signal or an energy field surrounds the Reaper, which influences people's minds. It was first reported to Commander Shepard by farmers on Eden Prime, who claimed there was a horrible noise coming from Sovereign as it descended. Matriarch Benezia said that even Sovereign's interior serves indoctrination: the strange angles of the rooms are confusing and make you uncertain of yourself. The effect seems to extend to Reaper artifacts, such as the one brought aboard the MSV Cornucopia that brainwashed her crew.
Indoctrination is one of the most insidious weapons the Reapers have in their arsenal; the salarian lieutenant Ganto Imness describes it as a greater threat than a krogan army. As Vigil explains, indoctrinated slaves from conquered planets were used during the last Reaper incursion as sleeper agents. They were taken in by other Protheans as refugees, then betrayed their own people to the machines. But the Reapers viewed them as disposable. When they disappeared back through the Citadel relay, the Reapers abandoned their indoctrinated slaves, leaving them to starve or die of exposure.

[jackncoke28]

Is the low ems choice of either destroy, or control, dependent on whether or not you destroy collector base?

[N7xELITE]

JTP117 wrote...

N7xELITE wrote...

Hi I am commander Shepard and this is my favourite idea on the forum

Ah, ya beat me to it 

lol   

[sjrskl]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...


Well as far as the delusions, they aren't PTSD, they are the product of indoctrination. Read the codex entry in the game on it, it will explain a lot

By delusions you mean dreams?  I might have missed the delusions being mentioned in that post considering its length.  But the nightmares are real and the child's presence is due to PTSD.  That is mentioned in the script and Shepard/the crew allude to his/her state through dialogue and actions.

However, that doesn't mean that can't be a possible vector for the Reapers to take advantage of.

dude come on you don't have to read it all but at least try to figure out what it's about and yes it's about the kid that somehow teleports from one place to the other gets blown up twice and still recurs in dreams being possibly a sign of PTSD or better yet indoctrination

[JTP117]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...


Well as far as the delusions, they aren't PTSD, they are the product of indoctrination. Read the codex entry in the game on it, it will explain a lot

By delusions you mean dreams?  I might have missed the delusions being mentioned in that post considering its length.  But the nightmares are real and the child's presence is due to PTSD.  That is mentioned in the script and Shepard/the crew allude to his/her state through dialogue and actions.

However, that doesn't mean that can't be a possible vector for the Reapers to take advantage of.

By delusions I am referring to the child itself. By this theory, which I am invested in entirely, the child is not real. It is a fabrication of reaper indoctrination, a symbol the reapers gave to shepards despair so as to get a tighter hold on him. Basically you are half right, shepard is having a lot of stress due to everyone dying, but the dreams themselves are just manipulations of that by the reapers, they are using the child as an avatar to sway shepard to their way of thinking (indoctrination). notice that no one else in the game ever sees or hears that child at all. The original post talks more about it, I suggest reading that.

[N7xELITE]

Indoctrination victims

Desolas Arterius
Ben Hislop
Dr. Shu Qian
Saren Arterius
Matriarch Benezia
Shiala
Captured salarians from 3rd Infiltration Regiment STG, including Pvt. Menos Avot
Collector General
Cerberus team on the Derelict Reaper
Unknown numbers of Protheans (according to Saren, the Protheans numbered in the trillions, so even 1% indoctrination would be over ten billion), some of whom were later repurposed into Collectors
Miners of the N7: Abandoned Mine mission, confirmed in the logs
Dr. Amanda Kenson and the members of The Project, not long before the events of Arrival
Rana Thanoptis
Batarian science teams that studied the Leviathan of Dis
Illusive Man
Unknown number of Rachni

[ArkkAngel007]

JTP117 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

Balteus wrote...

A quick question if you choose destroy do you see EDI on the paradise planet?

Yes, she has been seen several times by several people

In destroy?  Can I get a link please?  This is news to me.

It was earlier in this thread that we were talking about it, back in the 600's. I have no idea how far back tho lol sorry, let me see if I can find something

Basically the initial reasoning is that her body was the only synthetic thing about her, the bulk of what she was was on the normandy, and shepard, being held together by synthetics ala project lazarus, survived when it should have killed him too. Basically from people seeing EDI and the scene where shep is breathing kinda confirms that the godchild was bluffing

But then the Normandy crash was real.  Shepard's mind wouldn't be like "HA! I gotcha you little ****!".

So then the ending really happened with that train of thought.

Like I said before, everything from shepard getting hit by the laser to him waking up in rubbe is a halucination. He is dreaming so to speak, of how the choice he made would affect the galaxy. Which explains the squadmate/joker teleport plothole, dreams are almost never linear, they jump around a lot. It's just his mind making sense of the supposed "decision" he just made.

Yet the theory is based on that these images are all based on past experiences, through events or dialogue, in Shepard's life with the suggestions of Harbringer to supplement them.

So then why would EDI survive in the Destroy ending if Shepard is told all synthetics would be destroyed?  Regardless of how you feel EDI is connected to the Core bot, she is still a synthetic being wherever she is installed/present.  She would be destroyed.

I'm sorry, but it's starting to stretch a bit too much.  Are we sure that this is a full destroy ending and not somone editing a video to make it look like she lives?

I apologize if this is all redundant.  I've been out for 2+ days for the most part.

[JTP117]

N7xELITE wrote...

Indoctrination

Indoctrination is the term used for the brainwashing effect the Reapers have on organic beings. A signal or an energy field surrounds the Reaper, which influences people's minds. It was first reported to Commander Shepard by farmers on Eden Prime, who claimed there was a horrible noise coming from Sovereign as it descended. Matriarch Benezia said that even Sovereign's interior serves indoctrination: the strange angles of the rooms are confusing and make you uncertain of yourself. The effect seems to extend to Reaper artifacts, such as the one brought aboard the MSV Cornucopia that brainwashed her crew.
Indoctrination is one of the most insidious weapons the Reapers have in their arsenal; the salarian lieutenant Ganto Imness describes it as a greater threat than a krogan army. As Vigil explains, indoctrinated slaves from conquered planets were used during the last Reaper incursion as sleeper agents. They were taken in by other Protheans as refugees, then betrayed their own people to the machines. But the Reapers viewed them as disposable. When they disappeared back through the Citadel relay, the Reapers abandoned their indoctrinated slaves, leaving them to starve or die of exposure.

Well said, also, I just read all that in the codex's voice and it sounds awesome lol

[N7xELITE]

“There won't be an Earth left to save...” if I do not get my ending.

[N7xELITE]

JTP117 wrote...

N7xELITE wrote...

Indoctrination

Indoctrination is the term used for the brainwashing effect the Reapers have on organic beings. A signal or an energy field surrounds the Reaper, which influences people's minds. It was first reported to Commander Shepard by farmers on Eden Prime, who claimed there was a horrible noise coming from Sovereign as it descended. Matriarch Benezia said that even Sovereign's interior serves indoctrination: the strange angles of the rooms are confusing and make you uncertain of yourself. The effect seems to extend to Reaper artifacts, such as the one brought aboard the MSV Cornucopia that brainwashed her crew.
Indoctrination is one of the most insidious weapons the Reapers have in their arsenal; the salarian lieutenant Ganto Imness describes it as a greater threat than a krogan army. As Vigil explains, indoctrinated slaves from conquered planets were used during the last Reaper incursion as sleeper agents. They were taken in by other Protheans as refugees, then betrayed their own people to the machines. But the Reapers viewed them as disposable. When they disappeared back through the Citadel relay, the Reapers abandoned their indoctrinated slaves, leaving them to starve or die of exposure.

Well said, also, I just read all that in the codex's voice and it sounds awesome lol

i love the codex lol

[JTP117]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

Balteus wrote...

A quick question if you choose destroy do you see EDI on the paradise planet?

Yes, she has been seen several times by several people

In destroy?  Can I get a link please?  This is news to me.

It was earlier in this thread that we were talking about it, back in the 600's. I have no idea how far back tho lol sorry, let me see if I can find something

Basically the initial reasoning is that her body was the only synthetic thing about her, the bulk of what she was was on the normandy, and shepard, being held together by synthetics ala project lazarus, survived when it should have killed him too. Basically from people seeing EDI and the scene where shep is breathing kinda confirms that the godchild was bluffing

But then the Normandy crash was real.  Shepard's mind wouldn't be like "HA! I gotcha you little ****!".

So then the ending really happened with that train of thought.

Like I said before, everything from shepard getting hit by the laser to him waking up in rubbe is a halucination. He is dreaming so to speak, of how the choice he made would affect the galaxy. Which explains the squadmate/joker teleport plothole, dreams are almost never linear, they jump around a lot. It's just his mind making sense of the supposed "decision" he just made.

Yet the theory is based on that these images are all based on past experiences, through events or dialogue, in Shepard's life with the suggestions of Harbringer to supplement them.

So then why would EDI survive in the Destroy ending if Shepard is told all synthetics would be destroyed?  Regardless of how you feel EDI is connected to the Core bot, she is still a synthetic being wherever she is installed/present.  She would be destroyed.

I'm sorry, but it's starting to stretch a bit too much.  Are we sure that this is a full destroy ending and not somone editing a video to make it look like she lives?

I apologize if this is all redundant.  I've been out for 2+ days for the most part.

If all synthetic tech was destroyed shepard would be waaaay past dead as half his body is now synthetic repairs from project lazarus, yet he survives the destroy ending. You can't focus on one little detail at a time or you don't see the whole picture, this whole theory is interconnected.

[Vandicus]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

Balteus wrote...

A quick question if you choose destroy do you see EDI on the paradise planet?

Yes, she has been seen several times by several people

In destroy?  Can I get a link please?  This is news to me.

It was earlier in this thread that we were talking about it, back in the 600's. I have no idea how far back tho lol sorry, let me see if I can find something

Basically the initial reasoning is that her body was the only synthetic thing about her, the bulk of what she was was on the normandy, and shepard, being held together by synthetics ala project lazarus, survived when it should have killed him too. Basically from people seeing EDI and the scene where shep is breathing kinda confirms that the godchild was bluffing

But then the Normandy crash was real.  Shepard's mind wouldn't be like "HA! I gotcha you little ****!".

So then the ending really happened with that train of thought.

Like I said before, everything from shepard getting hit by the laser to him waking up in rubbe is a halucination. He is dreaming so to speak, of how the choice he made would affect the galaxy. Which explains the squadmate/joker teleport plothole, dreams are almost never linear, they jump around a lot. It's just his mind making sense of the supposed "decision" he just made.

Yet the theory is based on that these images are all based on past experiences, through events or dialogue, in Shepard's life with the suggestions of Harbringer to supplement them.

So then why would EDI survive in the Destroy ending if Shepard is told all synthetics would be destroyed?  Regardless of how you feel EDI is connected to the Core bot, she is still a synthetic being wherever she is installed/present.  She would be destroyed.

I'm sorry, but it's starting to stretch a bit too much.  Are we sure that this is a full destroy ending and not somone editing a video to make it look like she lives?

I apologize if this is all redundant.  I've been out for 2+ days for the most part.

So how does this contradict the theory?

In the accepted face value ending, space child is either lying to us or EDI and Shepard's survival is a really big frigging plot hole.

Indoctrination Theory explains why Shepard would never be dead in the first place, and the bizzare Normandy escape along with dead or traitorous squad mates that step out would not atcually have occurred.

[ArkkAngel007]

JTP117 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...


Well as far as the delusions, they aren't PTSD, they are the product of indoctrination. Read the codex entry in the game on it, it will explain a lot

By delusions you mean dreams?  I might have missed the delusions being mentioned in that post considering its length.  But the nightmares are real and the child's presence is due to PTSD.  That is mentioned in the script and Shepard/the crew allude to his/her state through dialogue and actions.

However, that doesn't mean that can't be a possible vector for the Reapers to take advantage of.

By delusions I am referring to the child itself. By this theory, which I am invested in entirely, the child is not real. It is a fabrication of reaper indoctrination, a symbol the reapers gave to shepards despair so as to get a tighter hold on him. Basically you are half right, shepard is having a lot of stress due to everyone dying, but the dreams themselves are just manipulations of that by the reapers, they are using the child as an avatar to sway shepard to their way of thinking (indoctrination). notice that no one else in the game ever sees or hears that child at all. The original post talks more about it, I suggest reading that.

I did.  I'm not 100% convinced the child is entirely a fabrication, nor do I think it is vital to the theory, as even having the child be real and die would affect Shepard IMO in the same way.

But yes, I am familiar with why the Reapers utilize the image of the child.  I think I was posting here before quite a few of you^_^.

I'm just making sure things aren't getting stretched out.

[N7xELITE]

Has someone noticed that the ship collection is missing one?????? ( in your cabin, the one on the wall not in the glass)

Modifié par N7xELITE, 19 mars 2012 - 11:15 .

[JTP117]

N7xELITE wrote...

Has someone noticed that the ship collection is missing one??????

I did, I can't find it anywhere

[Vandicus]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...


Well as far as the delusions, they aren't PTSD, they are the product of indoctrination. Read the codex entry in the game on it, it will explain a lot

By delusions you mean dreams?  I might have missed the delusions being mentioned in that post considering its length.  But the nightmares are real and the child's presence is due to PTSD.  That is mentioned in the script and Shepard/the crew allude to his/her state through dialogue and actions.

However, that doesn't mean that can't be a possible vector for the Reapers to take advantage of.

By delusions I am referring to the child itself. By this theory, which I am invested in entirely, the child is not real. It is a fabrication of reaper indoctrination, a symbol the reapers gave to shepards despair so as to get a tighter hold on him. Basically you are half right, shepard is having a lot of stress due to everyone dying, but the dreams themselves are just manipulations of that by the reapers, they are using the child as an avatar to sway shepard to their way of thinking (indoctrination). notice that no one else in the game ever sees or hears that child at all. The original post talks more about it, I suggest reading that.

I did.  I'm not 100% convinced the child is entirely a fabrication, nor do I think it is vital to the theory, as even having the child be real and die would affect Shepard IMO in the same way.

But yes, I am familiar with why the Reapers utilize the image of the child.  I think I was posting here before quite a few of you^_^.

I'm just making sure things aren't getting stretched out.

The kid is believed to be real when he's running back the window with the Normandy toy. Things start to get weird when he teleports and there's the failed indoctrination reaper growling when you next see the kid in the vent(which has a warning sign attached to it for no reason). When you see him again, the game intentionally posts a caution sign and then a danger sign next to him, again for no apparent reason. Its not necessary for the kid to be fake, but it does explain a lot of the symbology and heavy foreshadowing such as in the dreams.

[crimsontotem]

3:55-56, that third low tone echo...

remind you of someone? like Harbinger?

[jackncoke28]

JTP117 wrote...

N7xELITE wrote...

Has someone noticed that the ship collection is missing one??????

I did, I can't find it anywhere

the kid was flying it in the beginning