57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghrelt]

I went to the wrong side, turned around to get to the right one, made it half way there and timed out. Got the "Critical Mission Failure" screen.

[ArkkAngel007]

Ellythe wrote...

I went to the wrong side, turned around to get to the right one, made it half way there and timed out. Got the "Critical Mission Failure" screen.

Only critical mission?  No dialogue about the crucible or not a quick text box stating it had been destroyed?  Would seem odd if it was when your standing under the thing.

[Apollo-XL5]

While shep is halucinating, he is walking round the conduit, no if he takes the control choice, then in reality he will just walk away and he is indoctrinated. If he chooses synthesis then really he will enter the the conduit and be beamed up to the citadel to be harvested (indoctrinated). But if he chooses destroy the what he really is destroying is the conduit which is why he is surrounded by rubble when he wakes up.

[Vox Doom]

<- Crucible destroyed.

There's definitely something going on here.

[RADIUMEYEZ]

I think you guys will get a kick out of this www.youtube.com/watch

[IronSabbath88]

Very interesting thing there with the whole waiting too long. If anything it just adds to this.

[GriffinXP]

LadyWench wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I think I've got it now...

..the automatic fishfeeder must be Reaper tech! They exploited Shep's greatest weakness!

LOLZ!!!! It's true! I fell for it!!!

Buy enough DLC fish and maybe their combined force will be enough to overcome the Reaper's indoctrination attempts.

[Rifneno]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I think I already said this, but if the kid really was real and somebody wanted to find him. Why would they say "Last seen on Earth?" Why not "Last seen in Vancouver?" Last seen on Earth is ridiculously vague... yeah... someone is going to find him looking all over Earth..

ROFL. Niiiice, can't believe we haven't noticed that until now. Has anyone seen my keys? The last time I saw them, they were in the Virgo Supercluster.

Terran235 wrote...

What if the whole final act is an expansion pack? Not DLC, but a fullblown expansion pack.

Then I'd have to smoke a cigarette and take a nap after reading the news.

Actually, I can see that happening. We still don't have a way of defeating the Reapers unless the crucible just releases a ten-thousand-way energy cannon that auto-targets every Reaper in the Milky Way or some crap. That thing always struck me as suspicious. They said it's been worked on for MILLIONS of years, each cycle adding to it and improving it. In all that time, the Reapers never found out about this omniweapon, their kryptonite, and made sure they torched all the plans? ... Very fishy. ... But then again, ME2 worked out because the Reapers haven't bothered the change the password on the Omega-4 Mass Relay in 37 million years.

Terran235 wrote...

If that were the case it could get a proper epic ending with a 10 minute CGI like those final fantasy endings lol. I would love if they showed everyone celebrating after the battle, or something positive ffs! give our shepards a happy ending, bioware :'(.

Speaking of which, was I the only one really annoyed at the movies of Sword popping out the Sol relay and engaging Reapers? They made sure they only showed the bare minimum of like Alliance, turian, and asari fleets. There's a movie of the Migrant Fleet (is it called that anymore? since they've got Rannoch back I mean?) passing Jupiter but it's seperate from the rest. Only mention we even get of the geth fleet is Joker saying they're reporting and the geth are one of the most well-armed militaries in the galaxy. ... I wanted a shot of the entire superfleet.

wantedman dan wrote...

It doesn't even need to be a happy ending.

One that satisfies the plot and the issues at hand is the only thing necessary.

Define "happy." Everything being sunshine and rainbows? No. But I flatly refuse to accept any ending where the Reapers aren't scrap metal. The Reapers' destruction is non-negotiable IMO. I'd rather keep this cluster**** of nonsense we've got now than a realistic ending with the Reapers winning.

[Elp]

Either.Ardrey wrote...

Elp wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Elp wrote...

 I think the biggest problem with Indoctrination Theory is the fact that is doesn't explain why there was a cutscene of the Crucible fireing and showing what happened to the galaxy.If the entire ending is just Sheppard fighting indoctrination, and none of it had any real effect, the Crucible wouldn't have fired. 

You could say the fireing of the Crucible was also a hallucination. But whose hallucination would that be? It certainly isn't shown from the Sheppard perspective.
Also, if you succesfully fight the indoctrination by chosing the Destroy option, the indoctrination ends so there shouldn't be anymore hallucinations. Yet, you still see the Crucible fireing. According to the InDoc Theory, that shouldn't have happened. Which means that the Crucible fireing cannot be a hallucination. It actually fired. If the Crucible fired, it means Sheppard was successfull in fireing it.

Another problem with the Indoctrination Theory is the Stargazer scene. Apparently humanity survived (with advanced space flight capability), that can only be if the Reapers were stopped. This is a second indication that the Crucible was actually used.

I do believe there was some kind of 'hallucination', but it's purpose wasn't to deceive Sheppard and it didn't start when Sheppard was hit by the laser beam. I want to believe that Sheppard passed out on the elevator platform near the control panel and the Child detects this. The Child knows the cycle is no longer a valid Solution because over the years the Organics keep getting closer to completing the Crucible and now they have succeeded. The Child interfaces with the mind of the unconscious Sheppard in order to give him The Choice. This isn't that farfetched when you consider that InDoc works in a similar fashion and apparently the much less advanced Geth have similar technology. 

The symbolism used in The Choice scene shows that this part is NOT real. The Destroy option is triggered by shooting a conduit, that doesn't make any sense from an engineering/mechanical perspective. However, it does make sense when you see the gun as a symbol for destruction. It also explains the Child itself, the Catalyst has entered Sheppard's mind and has chosen a familiar form to represent itself (cliché, I know).
Although the appearance of The Choice isn't real, The Choice itself is and it's effects are. The Crucible fires, Sheppard dies unless he choses the Destroy options, etc. etc. 


It's still a very poor ending, and offers no incentive at all to re-play either ME3 or its predecessors, but to me it's the only way for it to make sense. It's somewhat of a hybrid theory between InDoc Theory, and the uhm.. 'Everything was real' theory. 

The indoctrination theory holds that Shepard's indoctrination only ends AFTER he wakes up in the breath scene. So this is actually after the Crucible supposedly fires. The indoctrination theory never states that Shepard fails to activate the Crucible or stop the Reapers, it states that we just haven't seen it happen yet.

But that can't be. The  hallucination supposedly starts when Sheppard is knocked out by the giant laser beam, he isn't even near the Crucible at that time. So he somehow fired the Crucible while indoctrinated while not even making it to the transporter beam? That doesn't make sense.

Either he truelly made it  to the Citadel and there was no hallucination, or he was knocked out by the giant laser beam and started hallucinating the ending. In that case, there no way he could have fired the Crucible.

I think you might have misunderstood what he/she was trying to say. What the theory is actually trying to say is that the Crucible firing, Mass Relays doing weird stuff, Reapers fleeing or dying, Normandy fleeing with teleported squadmates, etc, up until the ShepAlive clip, is Shepard visualizing his wish for his squadmates safety and survival, so that he can justify his decision, so to speak.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Darn it. At least I hope I explained it a bit more thoroughly.

Hm. But the theory implies that the hallucinations are Indoctrination induced and that they are some sort of representation of the battle for the mind of Sheppard. Green / Blue means you lose, Red means you beat the Reaper InDoc and wake up. What i don't understand is: when you pick the Red ending, you supposedly keep on hallucinating (untill you wake up).

Basically the theory says the choice scene (and TIM scene) is a representation of fighting Indoctrination, but when you pick the Destroy option the theory states that the Indoctrination is broken, right? So the Crucible fireing is nothing more than a pure dream and in essence has nothing to do with Indoctrination, since at that point Sheppard has already defeated InDoc by picking Destroy?

I guess that could have happened, in order to justify his choice like you said. I really don't like the 'dream' solution to such 'plot holes' though. It feels cheap and easy, from a writing perspective. I can only hope BioWare has something magnificent in store for us, because the ending sucks whether it's a dream or not.

[Either.Ardrey]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

MassEffectFan11 wrote...

N7xELITE wrote...

Maybe the child was his imagination, maybe the child was never there on earth. Nobody else seems to notice him????

I noticed that too, nobody but Shepard pays attention. And when you see the kid in the vent, a Reaper just happens to be walking by. And right before the kid gets blown up, he looks right at Shepard.

And it all is odd.  Mostly, I am leaning towards him not being real at that point, but again, I haven't been fully convinced yet.

I guess maybe I should explain why I set myself against proof that comes up, even though I'm one of the original supporters.

You may all have noticed, but we aren't exactly popular on here, and for good reason.  Every time someone finds something, instead of presenting it to be debated, they claim it as proof and wave it for all to see.  Honestly, it's getting a bit out of hand that threads get continuously made not only relying on some of the more doubtful indicators, but that they prop up the theory as a fact, and not only a theory/speculation.

There are a lot of angry/disappointed fans on here.  Heck, I'm sure some, if not most, of you were at some point.  Trying to shove this view on them, while they do the same on here, isn't the way to go.  We want the same things, but now there is a divide between the IT and literal interpretors, which is just insanely stupid of the community.  

We are not about post-game DLC.  We are not about what is/isn't facts, as there is no way to confirm or deny anything.  This is about speculating on why the ending was executed as it was at a design and lore standpoint.

All-in-all, I'm here to make sure we don't get too ahead of ourselves, and debate it thouroughly here before throwing it out to the wolves.  Not to police.  Not to block opinions.  Just to debate it as much as we can to make sure it holds.  

I stand by IT theory.  Let's just make sure what we are standing on is as solid as it can be.

Too true. If we took out all the "OMG this is AMAZING"s and the "this is just stupid"s, this would definitely be a smaller and more manageable thread. This thread is definitely getting to the point of excessive self-congratulation, which I believe is due to the fact that it's very rare that someone debates with an observation that goes against the theory.

We need people to challenge the theory!! Regardless of whether or not you believe IT or not, if you notice something that goes against or contradicts this theory, please post it. Thanks for trying to do your part ArkkAngel. While I'm unable to play devil's advocate here (I just can't think of anything against IT at this time), I'd certainly like more counter-arguments to analyze and properly debate.

[Alcore]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

I've worked with a lot of kids who've gone through a lot of rough **** in bad areas and homes, and you'd be surprised at how resistant  they can be when they are in trouble.  I don't know how a child would react in a devastating war-zone (thankfully none of my friends had to go through witnessing that happening to the civilians), but none of us can claim that we'd know that unless we came out of those situations.

Personally, I felt that line was just horrible voice-work 

Agreed. And it would be ignorant if I said no kid might possibly react like that. It's just my interpretation of the boy having had - up to that point - a normal, happy life. After all all you know about him in that building is that he was happily frolicking a few moments earlier. The trailers also put children in the foreground, which combined I assume is meant to evoke a sense of care and responsibility. On my first playthough, with the constant mentions of the lacking catalyst and the recurring dreams of the boy, I did have the feeling that the kid might be the key, even if only in a metaphorical sense. The problem I'm having with continuing this line of thought and reaching any satisfactory conclusion is the question - a catalyst, but to what? To catalyze what and how? Shep is already doing double-time to fight the reapers so the kid is obviously not the trigger. I'm kind of left baffled in this regard, both literally looking at the spacegodkid sequence and from the IT perspective and starting to think it was just BW "hey let's go all metaphorical on this" without too much thought.

In the literal (technical) sense the Citadel can obviously be used to catalyze the energy from all the relays as we are never really get to know the truth about its origin and purpose. I mean, up until that little blue thing popped up to ruin it all, I imagined the ending chain reaction to be inwards oriented, when the Citadel itself "absorbs" and catalyzes all the energy from the relays, as that's what the Prothean VI at TIM's base hinted at. And then we're given the deus ex machina going all "nope, Chuck Testa" on me.

So, in the literal sense I've got my interpretation of what the metaphorical catalyst is. However, regarding naming the giant space zeppelin 'crucible' the only thing my brain is able to come up with is a weak 'test to gather as many war assets as possible', which is just lame. From the IT perspective I've got a very clear interpretation of what the metaphorical crucible actually is, but no "logical" idea about the catalyst at this point.

Anyone happen to be able to enlighten me? 

[Pathero]

RADIUMEYEZ wrote...

I think you guys will get a kick out of this www.youtube.com/watch

The internet.  You have won it.

[wantedman dan]

Rifneno wrote...
Define "happy." Everything being sunshine and rainbows? No. But I flatly refuse to accept any ending where the Reapers aren't scrap metal. The Reapers' destruction is non-negotiable IMO. I'd rather keep this cluster**** of nonsense we've got now than a realistic ending with the Reapers winning.

I think that would be one outcome in an acceptable ending. The thing about Mass Effect is, you're able to fail. It's ultimately your decision that makes the outcome what you want it to be.

[Rifneno]

I wouldn't say NO kid would react like he did, but I would say almost none would. And the whole thing is about how he's upset at seeing his world destroyed by the Reapers. You know what kids do when they're upset? Cry. Kids cry if they get the wrong toy in their happy meal, I'm pretty sure there'd be some waterworks at seeing the end of the world.

[JTP117]

Rifneno wrote...

I wouldn't say NO kid would react like he did, but I would say almost none would. And the whole thing is about how he's upset at seeing his world destroyed by the Reapers. You know what kids do when they're upset? Cry. Kids cry if they get the wrong toy in their happy meal, I'm pretty sure there'd be some waterworks at seeing the end of the world.

No kidding. That kid seemed to accept the fate of the world better than Shepard himself

[I...AM...KROGAN]

So, I just finished my first playthrough (I already knew the gist of the ending) and now my brain hurts. I mean I literally have a headache. I tried to keep track of the supporting points for indoctrination, but it was too much to handle in one shot. After witnessing Harbinger's deathbeam destroy everything in front of me, I've come to the conclusion that Shepard died. I think nobody made it to the Citadel and the Crucible was destroyed- Reapers prevail and the cycle continues. The stargazer scene is just a story by... ugh, I don't even know how to finish. It's so confusing!

[Ghrelt]

RADIUMEYEZ wrote...

I think you guys will get a kick out of this www.youtube.com/watch

Miranda and Tali made me laugh so hard I cried.

[Indigo Arcangel]

Thought I'd just leave this here:

https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

[MysticFred]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I think I already said this, but if the kid really was real and somebody wanted to find him. Why would they say "Last seen on Earth?" Why not "Last seen in Vancouver?" Last seen on Earth is ridiculously vague... yeah... someone is going to find him looking all over Earth..

That may be because it's in the Citadel. I don't think many residents would know where "Vancouver" is. Now, Earth? Probably 99% of them know where it is.

[inFam0us]

Hold the line.

[Rifneno]

MysticFred wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I think I already said this, but if the kid really was real and somebody wanted to find him. Why would they say "Last seen on Earth?" Why not "Last seen in Vancouver?" Last seen on Earth is ridiculously vague... yeah... someone is going to find him looking all over Earth..

That may be because it's in the Citadel. I don't think many residents would know where "Vancouver" is. Now, Earth? Probably 99% of them know where it is.

Does it matter?  People from Palaven haven't seen the kid, so what does it matter if they know where Vancouver is?

[DCYNIGR8]

Lemonite wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

GriffinXP wrote...

Wait.  Wasn't almost everything from the From Ashes DLC a part of the original game?  I seem to remember that the leaked script had Javik in it.

No, Javik was shipped with ME3, the rest of it wasn't. Bioware stated that shipping the character himself made implementation a lot easier. Typically Bioware starts programming their first DLC after the game has shipped, before the game has been released. That's why we see a fairly rapid release of their first DLC whenever they make a new game nowadays.

Javik seems pretty integrated into the game to be a post-production created character... <_<

Agreed. Did Priority Sur'kesh last night and both Wrex and Kirahee comment on Javik's presence. None of the other post release DLC characters got that level of integration. Javik even has talks over the coms with other squad mates and even moves around the ship, Kaidan/Ash didn't even do that. And that's not mentioning Thessia and the Liara/Javik confrontation afterwards...

If they can go into that much detail on a 'post production' DLC charatcer, I see no reason why they can't do something about the endings.

[Ghrelt]

I think any normal child in that situation (in the vents) would ask "Have you seen my mommy?". Or just stare and not say anything.

[LadyWench]

Pathero wrote...

RADIUMEYEZ wrote...

I think you guys will get a kick out of this www.youtube.com/watch

The internet.  You have won it.

Seconded! Laughed so hard it hurt. Thank you for some brevity. Makes it easier to hold the line.

[RADIUMEYEZ]

Ellythe wrote...

I think any normal child in that situation (in the vents) would ask "Have you seen my mommy?". Or just stare and not say anything.

Agreed or burst into tears.