57139 réponses à ce sujet

[darkcerb]

The indoctrination theory is basically saying that the current "endings" never happened. It was all a dream... and nothing is resolved. Everything that we did is in doubt. It would essentially be a rewrite discarding the catalyst and your "choice" for a different outcome. Indoc should've been one of the "bad" endings, game over, reapers win... but not something that's pure guesswork.
You could make the entire game an indoctrinated haze if you want, or even earlier in Arrival. Conspiracy theories at their best. Some will never play ME3 again and will never buy DLC, so it's okay that they don't get a true ending? 

And the current endings are basically saying that anderson TIM and your crew can teleport around, that the victory fleet is stranded, that with all the mass relays explodeing countless billions die instantly and millions more die when vital trade is cut off.

That's not even mentioning my crew and sheperds completly odd behaviors I.e accepting some ghost kids directions and in the crews case abandoning shep without a second glance at hammers broken front and seemingly being happy about it right at the end.

Can you not see why so many refuse to accept that at face value?

[Bawbtheepic]

What if BioWare went through with this and just made us wake up at the end of ME1

[Vahilor]

Nevara wrote...

I was doing a half-hearted playthrough the other night (for some masochistic reason) and I had a question or two about the indoctrination theory because I stand by it but I don't want to feel like I'm totally clutching at straws for nothing.

1) How far are we talking when it comes to the indoctrination? Some say the kid didn't exist from the beginning because of the lack of acknowledgement from Anderson (when spotted in the vents) to the NPCs who were guarding civilians as they were getting on the transport. Or has that been completely dismissed at this point?

2) If not, then I pose this strange question did anyone notice the cold indignation on the kid's face when he actually got on the shuttle? It wasn't a look of fear it was emotionless and damning.

Bah, my mind runneth over.

I never saw any other civilians that the kid. All guys entering the shuttles are soldiers.

The kid somhow allways looks of kinda cold.... and for a child acts pretty strange. I think every other kid would be crying or be totaly afraid.

[Rob Psyence]

Nevara wrote...

I was doing a half-hearted playthrough the other night (for some masochistic reason) and I had a question or two about the indoctrination theory because I stand by it but I don't want to feel like I'm totally clutching at straws for nothing.

1) How far are we talking when it comes to the indoctrination? Some say the kid didn't exist from the beginning because of the lack of acknowledgement from Anderson (when spotted in the vents) to the NPCs who were guarding civilians as they were getting on the transport. Or has that been completely dismissed at this point?

2) If not, then I pose this strange question did anyone notice the cold indignation on the kid's face when he actually got on the shuttle? It wasn't a look of fear it was emotionless and damning.

Bah, my mind runneth over.

That's what I thought about after I asked myself "how would this ai know about the same little kid?" Bioware obviously wanted us to form an attachment to the boy but the fact they make a concerted effort to segregate the boy from the other character models and from main characters makes me feel that the boy is an intentional psychological hook.

In the dreams the second one he's burning alone with faint shadows of fallen comrades but in the third  the shadows are even more pronounced and now shepard is burning next to the kid. It's a progression of Shepard's psyche and is meant to suggest mutual destruction, it's pushing the player toward our inevitable final choice. It symbolizes the deteioration of Shepard's mind.

While it is true that part of it is just Shepard's inner turmoil, to me the fact that the Catalyst ai takes the form of the same boy makes the whole thing fishy. It seemed to me that the boy is a seed planted into the player's mind to build some kind of trust and pushes them to start to drift toward sympathizing with him and trust him. Indoctorination is my only conclusion, Harbinger to me is intentionally attacking the sympathies of not only Shepard but of the player themselves, using deception to push us toward "Control" or "Synthesis" where Shepard is vaporized , his mind consumed and pull our minds away from "Destruction' where Shepard lives.

[Nevara]

Rob Psyence wrote...

Nevara wrote...

*snip*

That's what I thought about after I asked myself "how would this ai know about the same little kid?" Bioware obviously wanted us to form an attachment to the boy but the fact they make a concerted effort to segregate the boy from the other character models and from main characters makes me feel that the boy is an intentional psychological hook.

In the dreams the second one he's burning alone with faint shadows of fallen comrades but in the third  the shadows are even more pronounced and now shepard is burning next to the kid. It's a progression of Shepard's psyche and is meant to suggest mutual destruction, it's pushing the player toward our inevitable final choice. It symbolizes the deteioration of Shepard's mind.

While it is true that part of it is just Shepard's inner turmoil, to me the fact that the Catalyst ai takes the form of the same boy makes the whole thing fishy. It seemed to me that the boy is a seed planted into the player's mind to build some kind of trust and pushes them to start to drift toward sympathizing with him and trust him. Indoctorination is my only conclusion, Harbinger to me is intentionally attacking the sympathies of not only Shepard but of the player themselves, using deception to push us toward "Control" or "Synthesis" where Shepard is vaporized , his mind consumed and pull our minds away from "Destruction' where Shepard lives.

That's what I initially thought and there is a lot of evidence to point to the kid actually being a decisive psychological attack.  I mean going in I knew Shepard was the "point of the spear" when it came to rallying everyone in the galaxy.  It's hammered into you as hard as the kid is, so why wouldn't Harbinger want to take away the driving force.

Even still, the trials and tribulations of near death, death, resurrection and all the questionable items/artifacts that Shep had been around would have weakened his/her mental state.  Any major event witnessed and/or off camera could have contributed to prolonged stresses.  The Reapers were just good at brainwashing under the pretense of "hope" because that was all Shep had in the end.  

Which is probably why I didn't believe Invisikid and completed my mission as I was supposed to.  Damn the consequences.

That probably didn't make a lick of sense.   

[Rob Psyence]

Nevara wrote...

Rob Psyence wrote...

Nevara wrote...

*snip*

That's what I thought about after I asked myself "how would this ai know about the same little kid?" Bioware obviously wanted us to form an attachment to the boy but the fact they make a concerted effort to segregate the boy from the other character models and from main characters makes me feel that the boy is an intentional psychological hook.

In the dreams the second one he's burning alone with faint shadows of fallen comrades but in the third  the shadows are even more pronounced and now shepard is burning next to the kid. It's a progression of Shepard's psyche and is meant to suggest mutual destruction, it's pushing the player toward our inevitable final choice. It symbolizes the deteioration of Shepard's mind.

While it is true that part of it is just Shepard's inner turmoil, to me the fact that the Catalyst ai takes the form of the same boy makes the whole thing fishy. It seemed to me that the boy is a seed planted into the player's mind to build some kind of trust and pushes them to start to drift toward sympathizing with him and trust him. Indoctorination is my only conclusion, Harbinger to me is intentionally attacking the sympathies of not only Shepard but of the player themselves, using deception to push us toward "Control" or "Synthesis" where Shepard is vaporized , his mind consumed and pull our minds away from "Destruction' where Shepard lives.

That's what I initially thought and there is a lot of evidence to point to the kid actually being a decisive psychological attack.  I mean going in I knew Shepard was the "point of the spear" when it came to rallying everyone in the galaxy.  It's hammered into you as hard as the kid is, so why wouldn't Harbinger want to take away the driving force.

Even still, the trials and tribulations of near death, death, resurrection and all the questionable items/artifacts that Shep had been around would have weakened his/her mental state.  Any major event witnessed and/or off camera could have contributed to prolonged stresses.  The Reapers were just good at brainwashing under the pretense of "hope" because that was all Shep had in the end.  

Which is probably why I didn't believe Invisikid and completed my mission as I was supposed to.  Damn the consequences.

That probably didn't make a lick of sense.   

Of course it did lol. My decision was a bit easier  for me because I killed the geth lol

[Nevara]

Rob Psyence wrote...

Nevara wrote...

Rob Psyence wrote...

Nevara wrote...

*snip*

That's what I thought about after I asked myself "how would this ai know about the same little kid?" Bioware obviously wanted us to form an attachment to the boy but the fact they make a concerted effort to segregate the boy from the other character models and from main characters makes me feel that the boy is an intentional psychological hook.

In the dreams the second one he's burning alone with faint shadows of fallen comrades but in the third  the shadows are even more pronounced and now shepard is burning next to the kid. It's a progression of Shepard's psyche and is meant to suggest mutual destruction, it's pushing the player toward our inevitable final choice. It symbolizes the deteioration of Shepard's mind.

While it is true that part of it is just Shepard's inner turmoil, to me the fact that the Catalyst ai takes the form of the same boy makes the whole thing fishy. It seemed to me that the boy is a seed planted into the player's mind to build some kind of trust and pushes them to start to drift toward sympathizing with him and trust him. Indoctorination is my only conclusion, Harbinger to me is intentionally attacking the sympathies of not only Shepard but of the player themselves, using deception to push us toward "Control" or "Synthesis" where Shepard is vaporized , his mind consumed and pull our minds away from "Destruction' where Shepard lives.

That's what I initially thought and there is a lot of evidence to point to the kid actually being a decisive psychological attack.  I mean going in I knew Shepard was the "point of the spear" when it came to rallying everyone in the galaxy.  It's hammered into you as hard as the kid is, so why wouldn't Harbinger want to take away the driving force.

Even still, the trials and tribulations of near death, death, resurrection and all the questionable items/artifacts that Shep had been around would have weakened his/her mental state.  Any major event witnessed and/or off camera could have contributed to prolonged stresses.  The Reapers were just good at brainwashing under the pretense of "hope" because that was all Shep had in the end.  

Which is probably why I didn't believe Invisikid and completed my mission as I was supposed to.  Damn the consequences.

That probably didn't make a lick of sense.   

Of course it did lol. My decision was a bit easier  for me because I killed the geth lol

You killed the geth!    

You monster! (I kid!)

Synthetics aside, if it was all a mind screw at the end then everything would be copacetic from what we know and can extrapolate from given data.  I'm pretty sure my Shep would be ticked that they attempted such a low brow tactic to get what they wanted.  

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Anything important since yesterday evening?

[N7xELITE]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Anything important since yesterday evening?

 i dont know:blink:

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Hudson, however, noting feedback from players that the ending was too bleak, said BioWare was working on new content that will be made available to download online to extend play beyond the current finish of the game.

Has this been posted? Probably has...

[N7xELITE]

The kid was never really back on earth.

[samus_smash]

Dark Dajin wrote...

Dark Dajin wrote...

Another note (brought to my attention by a friend):

The Child disappears immediately after Shepard 'breaks the indoctrination' and chooses to destroy.
www.youtube.com/watch

The Child smiles after Shepard 'falls for the indoctrination' and chooses to control
www.youtube.com/watch
(videos courtesy to IGN)


And why do we think the Catalyst is the citadel? Are we not told by a prothean VI that was hacked by TIM before we talked to it?
www.youtube.com/watch

Doesn't seem to have been noticed, so re-posting.

During the destroy ending, the child doesn't just disappear. It shuts down. There's an electronic buzzing sound that occurs just as the child gitches and disappears. At first, I thought it was just the power conduit being destroyed, but I never heard that sound again after the child was gone, only gunshots and explosions. It just syncs up so perfectly.

In contrast, during the control ending, the child seems to simply fade because it's finished its job. I couldn't see the smile but I got the idea that the child was feeling very smug.

I don't know. Maybe I'm reaching.

Also, i just finished the game yesterday and the ending bothered me so much, I started making forum posts for the first time ever.

Modifié par samus_smash, 20 mars 2012 - 08:27 .

[InsaneAzrael]

Rob Psyence wrote...
That's what I thought about after I asked myself "how would this ai know about the same little kid?" Bioware obviously wanted us to form an attachment to the boy but the fact they make a concerted effort to segregate the boy from the other character models and from main characters makes me feel that the boy is an intentional psychological hook.

In the dreams the second one he's burning alone with faint shadows of fallen comrades but in the third  the shadows are even more pronounced and now shepard is burning next to the kid. It's a progression of Shepard's psyche and is meant to suggest mutual destruction, it's pushing the player toward our inevitable final choice. It symbolizes the deteioration of Shepard's mind.

While it is true that part of it is just Shepard's inner turmoil, to me the fact that the Catalyst ai takes the form of the same boy makes the whole thing fishy. It seemed to me that the boy is a seed planted into the player's mind to build some kind of trust and pushes them to start to drift toward sympathizing with him and trust him. Indoctorination is my only conclusion, Harbinger to me is intentionally attacking the sympathies of not only Shepard but of the player themselves, using deception to push us toward "Control" or "Synthesis" where Shepard is vaporized , his mind consumed and pull our minds away from "Destruction' where Shepard lives.

Exactly.. That and the fact that the boy is presented to Shepard BEFORE he even knows about the catalyst. Even IF this was an after effect, what possible way is there for the "something you are comfortable" trope supposed to work when the child represents loss and tragedy?

Its a big "There is NO HOPE" stamp all over the game. The only familiar entity associated with not wanting there to be hope is the Reapers.

Modifié par InsaneAzrael, 20 mars 2012 - 08:29 .

[kyg_20X6]

Every day of waiting feels like a week.

[ssltrain]

So...I have a question about the "secret" ending that you get if you have enough war assets and choose the "destroy" option.

The camera pans up through the rubble...seemingly rubble from London...to a body with an N7 dog tag, and the person then takes a quick breath.

We've led ourselves to believe this is Shepard.

My question is, if you're playing as FemShep, and do everything exactly the same, does this "secret ending" scene show a female body in the rubble, taking a breath? Or, is it still a male body?

Just wondering because I didn't play as a FemShep and have yet to see a youtube video showing a FemShep version of that secret ending.

If I listen closely...and this might totally just be me imagining things...the "gasp" of air from the N7 body sounds a bit like James Vega's voice (Freddie Prinze, Jr.).

Are we sure that body is Shepard's?

Also, if you're using the Mass Effect Datapad app for iPad, you get a message from Kaiden/Ashley AFTER the game ends, saying that they'd like to come see you and asking if you're okay or up for visitors.

Anyone have any theories as to what that means?

Anyway, my main question is about the existence of a female/FemShep version of that secret, body-in-rubble ending but I'm also curious as to thoughts about the post-game datapad message.

Modifié par ssltrain, 20 mars 2012 - 08:38 .

[crazyeye343]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Every day of waiting feels like a week.

Seriously though it does, hopefully we'll here something soon otherwise Bioware will have a lot of...interesting questions to answer at pax east

[Silhouett3]

I'm gonna wear shining crystal blue lenses to support!

[Mcfly616]

The Reapers take the form of the child because its a figure that Shepard sympathizes with....plain and simple...making him less likely to question their logic

Boom

[crazyeye343]

ssltrain wrote...

So...I have a question about the "secret" ending that you get if you have enough war assets and choose the "destroy" option.

The camera pans up through the rubble...seemingly rubble from London...to a body with an N7 dog tag, and the person then takes a quick breath.

We've led ourselves to believe this is Shepard.

My question is, if you're playing as FemShep, and do everything exactly the same, does this "secret ending" scene show a female body in the rubble, taking a breath? Or, is it still a male body?

Just wondering because I didn't play as a FemShep and have yet to see a youtube video showing a FemShep version of that secret ending.

If I listen closely...and this might totally just be me imagining things...the "gasp" of air from the N7 body sounds a bit like James Vega's voice (Freddie Prinze, Jr.).

Are we sure that body is Shepard's?

Anyway, my main question is about the existence of a female/FemShep version of that secret, body-in-rubble ending.

It is femshep's voice but the body is the same. this is what makes makes indocternation seem likely since they made the effort to change the voices for the secret clip

[ssltrain]

Ah, I see. Thanks.

Anybody have any thoughts about the post-ending message you get on the datapad app from Kaiden/Ashley?

That seems like more evidence of the indoctrination theory, or something like it.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

oh god I'm dying...

[Vahilor]

ssltrain wrote...

Ah, I see. Thanks.

Anybody have any thoughts about the post-ending message you get on the datapad app from Kaiden/Ashley?

That seems like more evidence of the indoctrination theory, or something like it.

I never got any message on my DataPad after finishing the game and I also chose "Destruction" and my Shep survived.

[darkcerb]

http://i.imgur.com/RsAUv.jpg

Probably already been posted but an awesome summary of the ending.

[ssltrain]

Vahilor wrote...

ssltrain wrote...

Ah, I see. Thanks.

Anybody have any thoughts about the post-ending message you get on the datapad app from Kaiden/Ashley?

That seems like more evidence of the indoctrination theory, or something like it.

I never got any message on my DataPad after finishing the game and I also chose "Destruction" and my Shep survived.

There's a screen capture of it at the bottom of this article:


http://www.thevine.c...le20120314.aspx

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

crazyeye343 wrote...
It is femshep's voice but the body is the same. this is what makes makes indocternation seem likely since they made the effort to change the voices for the secret clip

The body is different.
http://www.youtube.c...P9ch72pE#t=715s
http://www.youtube.c...iJn31IVE#t=361s

And that's because the 2 bink files are different. One for male Shep and one for Fem Shep.

Modifié par Ghost Rider LSOV, 20 mars 2012 - 09:00 .