57139 réponses à ce sujet

[nyrocron]

byne wrote...

Well, since people seem to be talking about the Relays in the end representing Shep's brain, I figure I'll quote something I said nearly a hundred pages back:

byne wrote...

Wait wait wait, hold everything.

Can someone verify if the chain reaction starts in the Viper system or not?

Because, I have seen multiple people (myself included) say they believe that at the end, the galaxy is representative of the neural pathways in Shep's brain, with red being the brain rejecting indoctrination, and blue/green accepting it.

If the chain reaction does in fact start in the Viper nebula, we could assume that Shep's brain perceives that zone of space as being where indoctrination started (by being unconscious near Object Rho for two days), hence why the chain reaction of rejection/acceptance would start there.

I think I just blew my own mind.

We did in fact verify that it seems that the chain reaction starts in the Viper Nebula, which makes no sense, because the only Relay in that system was the Alpha Relay, which we destroyed.

Did not know that it already was brought up, but that sounds great!

Modifié par nyrocron, 21 mars 2012 - 12:12 .

[Unlimited69x]

Bumping this for support.

[MrFob]

Woah, you started a roundhouse kick there, didn't you?
Alright, I'll just aswer to the stuff on my posts.

Rifneno wrote...

MrFob wrote...

Well, I actually agree with that assessment. I also agree that a final boss fight is not needed. I though that was about the only good ting about the ending. I saw the reaper-TIM concepts in the art book. They definitely did well in cutting that and replacing it with the dialogue.

Except for one thing. TIM shouldn't be the final boss in the first place. This is about the Reapers, not some racist supremists. Sure, they're Reaper slaves so we have to fight them. I get that. But the final boss should never be just a mook to the real threat.

I absolutely agree with you there. Unfortunately BW seems to REALLY like TIM and Cerberus. IMO they should never have had the role they had in ME2 not to mention ME3 or the novels but hey, seems they do so there is nothing we can do about it.

MrFob wrote...

I love the theory and if it were true, it would certainly make a whole lot of sense but there is just NO evidence and hardly even any indication whatsoever to support it. Also some of the bits just don't really fit IMO. Part of TIM's dialogue is very specific and doesn't sound to me like it's some representation of an inner conflict within Sheps mind.

First of all, that's a ton of evidence. You can say that it doesn't convince you but don't claim it's not there. That's a blatant lie. Second, while a few bits may not sound exactly right in the context of IT, the entire thing fits like a brick down an anthill if it isn't all in Shepard's head. For example when Shepard asks TIM why he's sitting here talking if he can control the Reapers as he claims and TIM responds, "Because... I need you to believe." Riiiight. The same guy who on Mars told Shepard "I don't expect you to understand, and I'm certainly not looking for your approval."

There is no evidence. There are indications and lots of those but there is no proof. I was also making clear in my post that the video is very cleverly cut to get the point across and does cut out some parts of the TIM conversation and always interjects quotes from Harbinger to make it's point. That is fair enough and it is a beautiful video but if you have the conversation in game, it is much less clear cut.

Now having said that, I do absolutely hope the theory is true and I would be thrilled to see BW come out and admit it (I put the damn banner in my sig after all) but there are also counter indications and it wouldn't be the first time a writing team has fallen flat of expectations in the last stride of a story. If they planned it all the way, they were extremely subtle about it, more so than BW ever was. So you'll excuse me if I say: I will believe it when I see it.

... and despite everything BW still has to deliver on that DLC one way or another.

Modifié par MrFob, 21 mars 2012 - 12:25 .

[Vahilor]

MrFob wrote...

Woah, you started a roundhouse kick there, didn't you?
Alright, I'll just aswer to the stuff on my posts.

Rifneno wrote...

MrFob wrote...

Well, I actually agree with that assessment. I also agree that a final boss fight is not needed. I though that was about the only good ting about the ending. I saw the reaper-TIM concepts in the art book. They definitely did well in cutting that and replacing it with the dialogue.

Except for one thing. TIM shouldn't be the final boss in the first place. This is about the Reapers, not some racist supremists. Sure, they're Reaper slaves so we have to fight them. I get that. But the final boss should never be just a mook to the real threat.

I absolutely agree with you there. Unfortunately BW seems to REALLY like TIM and Cerberus. IMO they should never have had the role they had in ME2 not to mention ME3 or the novels but hey, seems they do so there is nothing we can do about it.

MrFob wrote...

I love the theory and if it were true, it would certainly make a whole lot of sense but there is just NO evidence and hardly even any indication whatsoever to support it. Also some of the bits just don't really fit IMO. Part of TIM's dialogue is very specific and doesn't sound to me like it's some representation of an inner conflict within Sheps mind.

First of all, that's a ton of evidence. You can say that it doesn't convince you but don't claim it's not there. That's a blatant lie. Second, while a few bits may not sound exactly right in the context of IT, the entire thing fits like a brick down an anthill if it isn't all in Shepard's head. For example when Shepard asks TIM why he's sitting here talking if he can control the Reapers as he claims and TIM responds, "Because... I need you to believe." Riiiight. The same guy who on Mars told Shepard "I don't expect you to understand, and I'm certainly not looking for your approval."

There is no evidence. There are indications and lots of those but there is no proof. I was also making clear in my post that the video is very cleverly cut to get the point across and does cut out some parts of the TIM conversation and always interjects quotes from Harbinger to make it's point. That is fair enough and it is a beautiful video but if you have the conversation in game, it is much less clear cut.

Now having said that, I do absolutely hope the theory is true and I would be thrilled to see BW come out and admit it (I put the damn banner in my sig after all) but there are also counter indications and it wouldn't be the first time a writing team has fallen flat of expectations in the last stride of a story. If they planned it all the way, they were extremely subtle about it, more so than BW ever was. So you'll excuse me if I say: I will believe it when I see it.

... and despite everything BW still has to deliver on that DLC one way or another.

I hope they do so and I hope they had planned somthing like the IT stuff... if they do nothing they will lose the trust of a lot of people.

Modifié par Vahilor, 21 mars 2012 - 12:40 .

[greywardencommander]

[quote]MrFob wrote...

I love the theory and if it were true, it would certainly make a whole lot of sense but there is just NO evidence and hardly even any indication whatsoever to support it. Also some of the bits just don't really fit IMO.[/quote]

First of all, that's a ton of evidence. You can say that it doesn't convince you but don't claim it's not there. That's a blatant lie. Second, while a few bits may not sound exactly right in the context of IT, the entire thing fits like a brick down an anthill if it isn't all in Shepard's head. For example when Shepard asks TIM why he's sitting here talking if he can control the Reapers as he claims and TIM responds, "Because... I need you to believe." Riiiight. The same guy who on Mars told Shepard "I don't expect you to understand, and I'm certainly not looking for your approval."
[/quote]

[quote]There is no evidence. There are indications and lots of those but there is no proof. I was also making clear in my post that the video is very cleverly cut to get the point across and does cut out some parts of the TIM conversation and always interjects quotes from Harbinger to make it's point. That is fair enough and it is a beautiful video but if you have the conversation in game, it is much less clear cut.

Now having said that, I do absolutely hope the theory is true and I would be thrilled to see BW come out and admit it (I put the damn banner in my sig after all) but there are also counter indications and it wouldn't be the first time a writing team has fallen flat of expectations in the last stride of a story. If they planned it all the way, they were extremely subtle about it, more so than BW ever was. So you'll excuse me if I say: I will believe it when I see it.

... and despite everything BW still has to deliver on that DLC one way or another.

[/quote]

To be honest nothing in the ending fits either f they're the real ending. A lot of the stuff to support them as being actual endings that don't have any plotholes is a lot of conjecture, indications etc as well (like why the relays don't explode and kill everyone, and how Joker and the Normady plus your squad manage to make it to a relay in time without having abandoned you well in time and before they knew what could happen) so the same is true for both sides. In any case Bioware needs to come out and say the IDT theory is true and show why or that their endings are real endings and don't go against the canon and explain why.

Modifié par greywardencommander, 21 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[greywardencommander]

greywardencommander wrote...

[quote]MrFob wrote...

[quote]I love the theory and if it were true, it would certainly make a whole lot of sense but there is just NO evidence and hardly even any indication whatsoever to support it. Also some of the bits just don't really fit IMO.[/quote]

[quote]First of all, that's a ton of evidence. You can say that it doesn't convince you but don't claim it's not there. That's a blatant lie. Second, while a few bits may not sound exactly right in the context of IT, the entire thing fits like a brick down an anthill if it isn't all in Shepard's head. For example when Shepard asks TIM why he's sitting here talking if he can control the Reapers as he claims and TIM responds, "Because... I need you to believe." Riiiight. The same guy who on Mars told Shepard "I don't expect you to understand, and I'm certainly not looking for your approval."
[/quote]

[quote]There is no evidence. There are indications and lots of those but there is no proof. I was also making clear in my post that the video is very cleverly cut to get the point across and does cut out some parts of the TIM conversation and always interjects quotes from Harbinger to make it's point. That is fair enough and it is a beautiful video but if you have the conversation in game, it is much less clear cut.

Now having said that, I do absolutely hope the theory is true and I would be thrilled to see BW come out and admit it (I put the damn banner in my sig after all) but there are also counter indications and it wouldn't be the first time a writing team has fallen flat of expectations in the last stride of a story. If they planned it all the way, they were extremely subtle about it, more so than BW ever was. So you'll excuse me if I say: I will believe it when I see it.

... and despite everything BW still has to deliver on that DLC one way or another.

[/quote]

To be honest nothing in the ending fits either f they're the real ending. A lot of the stuff to support them as being actual endings that don't have any plotholes is a lot of conjecture, indications etc as well (like why the relays don't explode and kill everyone, and how Joker and the Normady plus your squad manage to make it to a relay in time without having abandoned you well in time and before they knew what could happen) so the same is true for both sides. In any case Bioware needs to come out and say the IDT theory is true and show why or that their endings are real endings and don't go against the canon and explain why.

Modifié par greywardencommander, 21 mars 2012 - 12:41 .

[MrFob]

I know, that's why I like the theory so much in the first place.
The thing is, if the endings are real, than it might just be bad writing and a sloppy job and that's it. If the IT is true, the writing is so damn good that even the slightest hick-up makes me suspicious.

[Red Starblazer]

Cpt_Hook wrote...

Just wondering, has anypony considered, that if we are indoctrinated it will not simply go away by itself? Maybe BW is paying close attention to the forum and social media and is waiting for the right connections to be discovered. Maybe we have to resist the indoctrination in this way. Maybe we are playing the game right now…

Mass Inception? 0.o LEONARDO! WE NEED YOU!

[ZajoE38]

This is the most sophisticated ending ever seen in game.. but, I still want some closure. What happened when Shep get rid of indoctrination and woke up under the rock. What was next? How exactly they defeated the Reapers? What was happening while Shep was "dreaming"

[obie191970]

ZajoE38 wrote...

This is the most sophisticated ending ever seen in game.. but, I still want some closure. What happened when Shep get rid of indoctrination and woke up under the rock. What was next? How exactly they defeated the Reapers? What was happening while Shep was "dreaming"

Joker was flying to paradise.

[Icinix]

Red Starblazer wrote...

Cpt_Hook wrote...

Just wondering, has anypony considered, that if we are indoctrinated it will not simply go away by itself? Maybe BW is paying close attention to the forum and social media and is waiting for the right connections to be discovered. Maybe we have to resist the indoctrination in this way. Maybe we are playing the game right now…

Mass Inception? 0.o LEONARDO! WE NEED YOU!

this was something talking about earlier in the thread - the whole ending, the marketing, the entire lack of mods on the boards, the vague hints, the lack of straight answers everything is all about getting the player base convinced they're done and dusted.

The whole process goes beyond the game.

It was even stated by Casey Hudson they had found a way to make the players feel what the avatar in the game was feeling - seems like a pretty chunky piece of evidence right there personally.

[Tiny5th]

Not sure if this has been raised but on playing through the first game again I reached the conduit last night. Right after you go through it and reach the citadel, taking the elevator up the council tower where it is stopped, shep distinctly tells the team to put their helmets on before shooting out the glass. Proving there is no tech on the surface of the tower to give breathable air, and so I doubt there would be in the final scene of 3 either.

[Cpt_Hook]

Icinix wrote...

Red Starblazer wrote...

Cpt_Hook wrote...

Just wondering, has anypony considered, that if we are indoctrinated it will not simply go away by itself? Maybe BW is paying close attention to the forum and social media and is waiting for the right connections to be discovered. Maybe we have to resist the indoctrination in this way. Maybe we are playing the game right now…

Mass Inception? 0.o LEONARDO! WE NEED YOU!

this was something talking about earlier in the thread - the whole ending, the marketing, the entire lack of mods on the boards, the vague hints, the lack of straight answers everything is all about getting the player base convinced they're done and dusted.

The whole process goes beyond the game.

It was even stated by Casey Hudson they had found a way to make the players feel what the avatar in the game was feeling - seems like a pretty chunky piece of evidence right there personally.

It may be all about having hope agains impossible odds

[Sailfindragon]

 First of all apologies if this has been asked and answered before. 

Just watched the Angry Joe video on this subject.  Could you clarify something for me.

The theory is that from the moment harbingers beam hits shepard and knocks him out, there is essentially a battle of wills going on in his mind. And that everything that follows is purely in Shepards head.
So would this mean the battle to retake earth has not been concluded/won and is still on-going?
Assuming the indoctrination theory is correct, they surely would not leave the game as it stands now.

[nyrocron]

Yes, this is what the theory is about.

I think the stargazer scene is really after everything is over and, as someone stated, may actually be a hint ("one more story").

Modifié par nyrocron, 21 mars 2012 - 01:03 .

[Icinix]

Cpt_Hook wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Red Starblazer wrote...

Cpt_Hook wrote...

Just wondering, has anypony considered, that if we are indoctrinated it will not simply go away by itself? Maybe BW is paying close attention to the forum and social media and is waiting for the right connections to be discovered. Maybe we have to resist the indoctrination in this way. Maybe we are playing the game right now…

Mass Inception? 0.o LEONARDO! WE NEED YOU!

this was something talking about earlier in the thread - the whole ending, the marketing, the entire lack of mods on the boards, the vague hints, the lack of straight answers everything is all about getting the player base convinced they're done and dusted.

The whole process goes beyond the game.

It was even stated by Casey Hudson they had found a way to make the players feel what the avatar in the game was feeling - seems like a pretty chunky piece of evidence right there personally.

It may be all about having hope agains impossible odds

I started writing them all down - but got distracted and lost the notes...but how many times through ME3 does it constantly remind you there is hope.

That there is a way out of the darkness.

Even Liara's vision right at the end is you and her in the darkness, with a light getting closer.

The whole game is telling you to keep hope no matter what. BioWare even came out on their twitter feeds and said - have faith.

I honestly believe the ending is not here yet - what we got was cobbled together quick smart to look like a real ending (the normandy crash, the reuse and recolouring of the videos etc) - with the real ending to come when we had all given up.

[Cpt_Hook]

Sailfindragon wrote...

 First of all apologies if this has been asked and answered before. 

Just watched the Angry Joe video on this subject.  Could you clarify something for me.

The theory is that from the moment harbingers beam hits shepard and knocks him out, there is essentially a battle of wills going on in his mind. And that everything that follows is purely in Shepards head.
So would this mean the battle to retake earth has not been concluded/won and is still on-going?
Assuming the indoctrination theory is correct, they surely would not leave the game as it stands now.

The current theory says that we as players are fighting the indoctrination right now and here and eventually BW will unlock the real ending.

[greywardencommander]

MrFob wrote...

I know, that's why I like the theory so much in the first place.
The thing is, if the endings are real, than it might just be bad writing and a sloppy job and that's it. If the IT is true, the writing is so damn good that even the slightest hick-up makes me suspicious.

to be honest the slightest hiccup in the IDT compared to the seemingly countless in the actual endings, I can live with. I just want to know one way or the other now. If the endings are these 'ACTUAL' they promised us then they need to please in every detail explain every little bit of the ending to us because clearly we as a mass 'don't get it'. If it's the IDT just let us know now so we can replay every bit of ME1 and ME2 to get lots of different variations while we're waiting

Also if the endings are the endings maybe it's a dig at the rEApers? The illusion of choice where in actual fact Bioware have none (see MP)  

Modifié par greywardencommander, 21 mars 2012 - 01:03 .

[Kazalord2]

I was reading some articles which appeared in the last 4 hours and it seems BW will alter the ending, though I am very scaptical about the validity of this information.

[Capeo]

All of you clearly weren't in the PR thread last night, huh? Jessica was talking with us. These ARE the endings people. There is no indoctrination. This cult can disband.

It seems BW is working on something to better explain the ending but this is the ending. It's been her job to collect questions people have about the ending. There's nothing beyond it. You can drop the conspiracy claptrap.

[Sailfindragon]

Cpt_Hook wrote...

Sailfindragon wrote...

 First of all apologies if this has been asked and answered before. 

Just watched the Angry Joe video on this subject.  Could you clarify something for me.

The theory is that from the moment harbingers beam hits shepard and knocks him out, there is essentially a battle of wills going on in his mind. And that everything that follows is purely in Shepards head.
So would this mean the battle to retake earth has not been concluded/won and is still on-going?
Assuming the indoctrination theory is correct, they surely would not leave the game as it stands now.

The current theory says that we as players are fighting the indoctrination right now and here and eventually BW will unlock the real ending.

Thank you. Appreciated.

[CitadelSurfer]

Icinix wrote...

Cpt_Hook wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Red Starblazer wrote...

Cpt_Hook wrote...

Just wondering, has anypony considered, that if we are indoctrinated it will not simply go away by itself? Maybe BW is paying close attention to the forum and social media and is waiting for the right connections to be discovered. Maybe we have to resist the indoctrination in this way. Maybe we are playing the game right now…

Mass Inception? 0.o LEONARDO! WE NEED YOU!

this was something talking about earlier in the thread - the whole ending, the marketing, the entire lack of mods on the boards, the vague hints, the lack of straight answers everything is all about getting the player base convinced they're done and dusted.

The whole process goes beyond the game.

It was even stated by Casey Hudson they had found a way to make the players feel what the avatar in the game was feeling - seems like a pretty chunky piece of evidence right there personally.

It may be all about having hope agains impossible odds

I started writing them all down - but got distracted and lost the notes...but how many times through ME3 does it constantly remind you there is hope.

That there is a way out of the darkness.

Even Liara's vision right at the end is you and her in the darkness, with a light getting closer.

The whole game is telling you to keep hope no matter what. BioWare even came out on their twitter feeds and said - have faith.

I honestly believe the ending is not here yet - what we got was cobbled together quick smart to look like a real ending (the normandy crash, the reuse and recolouring of the videos etc) - with the real ending to come when we had all given up.

This.

Cannot agree with you more. The whole game and marketing is about hope. And we have to as a community do the same. It's bat **** crazy if you ask me but I'm loving every minute of it. 

[brummyuk19]

After watching angry joe's video on the theory on youtube, I can say without a doubt I am now a firm believer in the indoctrination theory. It makes so much sense! And if it is true, I will take back everything I said about Bioware and my faith will be restored.

[greywardencommander]

www.wildcat.arizona.edu/index.php/article/2012/03/bioware_ending_to_mass_effect_3_mars_series_but_could_still_be_salvagedhttp://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/index.php/article/2012/03/bioware_ending_to_mass_effect_3_mars_series_but_could_still_be_salvaged

Modifié par greywardencommander, 21 mars 2012 - 01:06 .

[chkchkchk]

7egion wrote...

Shepard Commander. We are holding the line.

I knew you'd never betray us, Legion.