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[Dwailing]

greywardencommander wrote...

Prudii Aden wrote...

Just thinking about the Indoctrination Theory, and the mission to Thessia - has anyone taken Javik/Prothy along with them on that mission? There's a chunk of extra dialogue that (I think) blows a hole in the theory. The VI talks to Javik, who tells the VI that Shepard is sufficiently worthy to at least be granted the chance to try, at which point the VI starts talking to Shepard until it does the Indoctrination alert, which preceeds Kai Leng's arrival.

that's already been accounted for, Shepard hasn't been indoctrinated (i.e. he hasn't succumbed to it yet, which this theory states the final 10 mins is the last stage of and can still beat the attempted control) so it wouldn't flag up. Javik also says that it failed to realise all the Protheans supporting 'control' as indoctrinated (which actually supports the theory, because control is an option obviously) until it was too late

Agreed.  Also, perhaps the From Ashes pack was the "first step" in clarifying the endings.  Presenting us with a little bit of extra evidence in favor of IDT.  The dialogue about the indoctrinated control supporters would be a very big clue if you ask me.  So, maybe we'll see more hints in future DLC.

[nyrocron]

chkchkchk wrote...

What do we think of this video that argues Shep wakes up on the Citadel instead of Earth?  It worries me.  It seems weird that Shep would survive the exploding Citadel, but maybe he/she is inside a little sealed-off chunk of it?  Can we find any clues that show the rubble is definitely on Earth?

If it's on the Citadel, I want one hell of a good explanation why Shepard is still alive.

Modifié par nyrocron, 21 mars 2012 - 02:27 .

[Interslice]

nyrocron wrote...

chkchkchk wrote...

What do we think of this video that argues Shep wakes up on the Citadel instead of Earth?  It worries me.  It seems weird that Shep would survive the exploding Citadel, but maybe he/she is inside a little sealed-off chunk of it?  Can we find any clues that show the rubble is definitely on Earth?

If it's on the Citadel, I want one hell of a good explanation why Shepard is still alive.

Or at least why there isn't fire around him/her while the Citadel is exploding/crashing into Earth

[greywardencommander]

Rifneno wrote...

chkchkchk wrote...

What do we think of this video that argues Shep wakes up on the Citadel instead of Earth?  It worries me.  It seems weird that Shep would survive the exploding Citadel, but maybe he/she is inside a little sealed-off chunk of it?  Can we find any clues that show the rubble is definitely on Earth?

Well mostly everyone points to the fact that it's concrete, which is not found anywhere on the Citadel.  But personally I prefer to the point to the fact that the Citadel blew up.  In outer space.  Really the only way that a human would have a harder time surviving is if they teleported him into the core of the damn sun.

to be honest trying to claim it is the cable is every bit as difficult as trying to claim it's concrete in London, if is the citadel HOW the hell did Shepard survive, I mean come on the place has been blown to smithereens (it's only in the destroy one after all) and you've entered the atmosphere WITHOUT a helmet to even breathe (don't get me started on not needing a helmet to breathe on outside of Citadel when that's established in ME1) something that killed you in ME2.

Modifié par greywardencommander, 21 mars 2012 - 02:30 .

[chkchkchk]

Behind all the rubble is a very smooth structure. Is that something we've seen on the Citadel or something we've seen down on Earth? Is that one of the structures the Reapers built in London?

[Spectre-61]

Interslice wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

chkchkchk wrote...

What do we think of this video that argues Shep wakes up on the Citadel instead of Earth?  It worries me.  It seems weird that Shep would survive the exploding Citadel, but maybe he/she is inside a little sealed-off chunk of it?  Can we find any clues that show the rubble is definitely on Earth?

If it's on the Citadel, I want one hell of a good explanation why Shepard is still alive.

Or at least why there isn't fire around him/her while the Citadel is exploding/crashing into Earth

But if you listen closely you can hear wind. Now tell me where in space/on the citadel is wind.

[Dwailing]

nyrocron wrote...

chkchkchk wrote...

What do we think of this video that argues Shep wakes up on the Citadel instead of Earth?  It worries me.  It seems weird that Shep would survive the exploding Citadel, but maybe he/she is inside a little sealed-off chunk of it?  Can we find any clues that show the rubble is definitely on Earth?

If it's on the Citadel, I want one hell of a good explanation why Shepard is still alive.

Yeah, I've said this earlier, but it bears repeating.  The only other time Shepard was ON BOARD a ship when it was destroyed was when he was on the Normandy SR-1.  And we ALL saw how well that turned out.  Even then, while the destruction of the didn't actually kill him immediately, it did knock out his air tube, and that was enough to cause him to choke to death even before he burned up in the atmosphere.  And Shepard is not wearing a helmet on the Citadel.  Even if he was still on the Citadel and not blown clear, there is nothing to suggest he reached some sort of sealed room, and if he was still in the final choice area, the mass effect fields that hold in the air would be deactivated during the explosion, leaving Shepard to choke to death, AGAIN.  And that is again assuming that there ARE ME fields holding in the air in that area.  If there are not, then there is more evidence for IDT. 

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Just thought of something.. in the Cronos station Shep talks to the VI. When asked about the Catalyst, she replies that she will answer, but only because her safety measures have been overridden. What if she noticed Shep was indoctrinated but couldn't act upon it because TIM had hacked her?

Especially since there's no reason to deny someone the information about the Catalyst if they want to fight the Reapers.. only indoctrinated persons should not be told about it...

Modifié par Earthborn_Shepard, 21 mars 2012 - 02:46 .

[nyrocron]

Or TIM could have hacked it to say whatever he wants it to say and the Citadel being the catalyst is complete bull****. Would make sense if it's all about Shepard's indoctrination and just a way to let him think he won. Honestly, I think it was just way too easy (in a gameplay sense) to get past TIM and be presented the choices and because of  all is good, galaxy is saved.

Modifié par nyrocron, 21 mars 2012 - 02:48 .

[Interslice]

variobunz wrote...

Interslice wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

chkchkchk wrote...

What do we think of this video that argues Shep wakes up on the Citadel instead of Earth?  It worries me.  It seems weird that Shep would survive the exploding Citadel, but maybe he/she is inside a little sealed-off chunk of it?  Can we find any clues that show the rubble is definitely on Earth?

If it's on the Citadel, I want one hell of a good explanation why Shepard is still alive.

Or at least why there isn't fire around him/her while the Citadel is exploding/crashing into Earth

But if you listen closely you can hear wind. Now tell me where in space/on the citadel is wind.

...Well, on the Citadel, there's breathable air, so movement of said air isn't that much of a stretch. I dunno why I just said that considering I don't believe it's on the Citadel (just playing devil's advocate). It seems to me that both of our comments say that the idea that Shepard is on the Citadel is absurd, no?

[Sepharih]

I've never been big on indoctrination "theory"...I'm more of an indoctrination "interpretation" kind of guy. Too many comments from bioware have convinced me that no matter what happens, they didn't intend this.

That being said...while somethings have always felt like grasping at straws to me (like how shepard having a gun which has unlimited ammo and can't shoot any friendlies is cited as evidence)....some of the latest observations have been pretty compelling I have to admit. I especially like the observation someone made that Shepard's wound is in the same spot as where he shot anderson...it's almost enough to make me want to fly an "Indoctrination Theory" banner......almost.

Modifié par Sepharih, 21 mars 2012 - 02:46 .

[Skypezee]

In case you guys missed it or didn't know, Angry Joe made another ME3 video in support of the Indoctrination Theory and lists his top 10 biggest reasons for why the theory is real:

http://angryjoeshow....me3-ending-dlc/

[kyrieee]

If the theory is true, isn't it better to just leave the ending the way it is?
The requirements for Shepard surviving are extremely specific, so most people won't even have a compatible save file for any potential DLC.

I think they should just come out and say that the endings are meant to be ambiguous, then people can make of them what they will.

[nyrocron]

Well, that they want the ending to be kind of ambigous is basically what they said as first reaction.

Modifié par nyrocron, 21 mars 2012 - 02:51 .

[greywardencommander]

Sepharih wrote...

I've never been big on indoctrination "theory"...I'm more of an indoctrination "interpretation" kind of guy. Too many comments from bioware have convinced me that no matter what happens, they didn't intend this.

That being said...while somethings have always felt like grasping at straws to me (like how shepard having a gun which has unlimited ammo and can't shoot any friendlies is cited as evidence)....some of the latest observations have been pretty compelling I have to admit. I especially like the observation someone made that Shepard's wound is in the same spot as where he shot anderson...it's almost enough to make me want to fly an "Indoctrination Theory" banner......almost.

what about the relays at the end exploding as the brain network either succumbing or overcoming the indoctrination?

[chkchkchk]

 I like the indoctrination theory a lot, by the way.  It's a lot more satisfying than the alternative.  I'm just trying to make sure we've got lots of evidence.

Watch the "breath" scene and note the smooth curved structure in the background.  (Keep your eyes on the purple misty part.)  Is that something we've seen before?  If we can locate that in London, we've got good evidence.  If that's something we've seen on the Citadel, we might be in trouble.

Modifié par chkchkchk, 21 mars 2012 - 02:52 .

[nyrocron]

greywardencommander wrote...

what about the relays at the end exploding as the brain network either succumbing or overcoming the indoctrination?

Personally I think that's nice if IT proves to be true but until then it's really reading too much into it. It fits in, but I don't think it's evidence on its own.

Modifié par nyrocron, 21 mars 2012 - 02:54 .

[Denvian]

It's funny... I noticed a lot of this stuff as I was playing the first time through and did not really think anything of it. Then at the end I made the Destroy decision because I just could not go along with the reapers or reaper controller. Then of course I reloaded and I did the supposed "best" ending and felt like a sell out because I just gave into the little reaper boy.

Regardless of if there is a ending DLC (Which I certainly do hope there is) this has made me like the ending a thousand times better considering it means all the weird and stupid plot holes at the end were intentional.

The only thing I can say is if this is all 100% legit and they do have a end DLC... there is a lot of people who are going to feel like real jerks for name calling and filling complaints with the FTC <-- I thought that was pretty out really.

Modifié par Denvian, 21 mars 2012 - 02:55 .

[Spectre-61]

Interslice wrote...

variobunz wrote...

Interslice wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

chkchkchk wrote...

What do we think of this video that argues Shep wakes up on the Citadel instead of Earth?  It worries me.  It seems weird that Shep would survive the exploding Citadel, but maybe he/she is inside a little sealed-off chunk of it?  Can we find any clues that show the rubble is definitely on Earth?

If it's on the Citadel, I want one hell of a good explanation why Shepard is still alive.

Or at least why there isn't fire around him/her while the Citadel is exploding/crashing into Earth

But if you listen closely you can hear wind. Now tell me where in space/on the citadel is wind.

...Well, on the Citadel, there's breathable air, so movement of said air isn't that much of a stretch. I dunno why I just said that considering I don't believe it's on the Citadel (just playing devil's advocate). It seems to me that both of our comments say that the idea that Shepard is on the Citadel is absurd, no?

Exactly!
And another thing:
The scene where you see the Citadel explode (2:52) the epicenter of the explosion is right where shep is (Citadel  tower). There is no way he survived that.

www.youtube.com/watch

[greywardencommander]

kyrieee wrote...

If the theory is true, isn't it better to just leave the ending the way it is?
The requirements for Shepard surviving are extremely specific, so most people won't even have a compatible save file for any potential DLC.

I think they should just come out and say that the endings are meant to be ambiguous, then people can make of them what they will.

My idea accounts for control and synthesis being you succumbing to the indoctrination and still allowing you to play as alive in the dlc 
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10350970/1#10383922
It also throws in the idea of some epic final battle scenes showing your crew and fav chars taking part in the battle, as well as the different fleets you recruited, with some DA:O style 'coronation and epilogue' ending where you can interact with some characters after and hear what their plans are and stuff cutting to cutscenes showing the repercussions of your actions such as the Geth and the Krogan, some of your squad mates etc

[XTR3M3]

as far as the OP question.....Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory
I sure hope so. It would be a better alternative than allowing the out of touch ending to stand on its own. I doubt it though. BioWare screwed up huge. I just hope they quit spinning this and just take a stand either way. Tell us the ending stands as is or commit to releasing new DLC that gives more ending options that actually follow lore and plot along with the upholding their pre-release promises of how our choices actually mattered for the ending.

[Gernbuster]

kyrieee wrote...

If the theory is true, isn't it better to just leave the ending the way it is?
The requirements for Shepard surviving are extremely specific, so most people won't even have a compatible save file for any potential DLC.

I think they should just come out and say that the endings are meant to be ambiguous, then people can make of them what they will.

That s not neccessarily true.... Just because u don t see him breathing, doesn t mean that he isn t.
In my oppinion ofc u need some war assesments and the red ending to survive (in hope for a dlc). Maybe the breathing scene is just some sort of bonus to give u hope for more, which fails btw -.-
If u played one of the Halo games, can t remember which one, on insane u get a bonus scene, too. It happens quit often in videogames but it doesn t mean that this is changing the end.

[T16skyhopp]

RE: Why "Green" for synthesis - Only thing I can think of was that green was heavily used for the "VI" imagery in the Overload ME2 DLC which was a merge of a human mind and geth AI.

RE: Shep Alive scene on the CItadel? Even if Shepard survived on an exploded citadel he shouldn't be stuck in a pile of rubble. The Citadel requires its constant and consistent rotation to simulate gravity. If he's stuck in a chunk of it it shouldn't be rotating in a way to generate gravity, he should be weightless.

[IhateEA-Mask]

If I were Bioware writer trying to make Indoctrination theory(and taking into account variables on it to account) I'd do it like this:

Low ESM crucible destroys all life: Auto game over, Your forces are so weak that you'll never have chance of making it. That or Shepard is indoctrinated and believes all is lost if Crucible is used.

Low ESM Destroy/Control: If you saved Collector Base, you have subconscious idea that maybe Illusive Man is right and get auto indoctrinated because you don't actually believe that your forces can defeat reapers, if you destroyed it your will is too strong but you still can't defeat reapers because your fleet is too small.

If you resist indoctrination: You go to citadel on final mission to defeat reapers and activate crucible.

If you get indoctrinated: Depending on way you chose, if you chose Control you will upon getting to citadel fall under full control of reapers and betray your squad mates if they are still alive. Then with either charm/intimidate/interruption options you can kill yourself like Saren/Illusive Man leading your squad mates to finish the job. Whether they survive if they succeed/succeed at all is something I'm not sure about. If you don't resist indoctrination, you either have to kill your squadmates or Harbinger assumes control and does it for you.(and your implants turns out to be reaper ones or something )

If you took Synthesis, you will believe there is better option, but instead of falling into full reaper control, you can if you resist, instead of shooting yourself in head you can sacrifice yourself to activate crucible leading to bittersweet ending.

[greywardencommander]

I also just want a face import fix so I can play my 'real' Shepard through the game lol. This is all a hallucination because it didn't actually happen to my Shepard