57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Sepharih]

greywardencommander wrote...
what about the relays at the end exploding as the brain network either succumbing or overcoming the indoctrination?

It's an interesting interpretation...but I doubt it's what bioware intended.

[Zhijn]

Im gonna copy & past my reply to the indoc theory YT vid, would like someone to try and make sens of what i say:

In line with the indoc video. He states your indoctrination start when you get hit by harbinger. Which would mean:

You never get on the citadel to activate the crucible since its just a mind game from there on (harbinger hit). Later Shepard then wake up among rubbles and the reapers are defeated like "puff" gone. FYI took the entire quarian fleet to down a "small" reaper, so no, war assets could not have taken out the reapers by themself.

Heres what i think happen: BioWare had indoc theory, they scrapped it, almost out of time - they took what scenes they had and turned it into a nonsensial mess of an ending!. And because of that, people graps at anything to make sens of it.

Why build the hype of a game that your finally going to fight and beat the reapers, and take earth back if only to end it with some poor excuse of a mind game on Shepard (the player)?. Why End the credits with saying "Reapers have been Defeated".

Most importen: Why havnt BW/EA said anything to calm the mass's and let the absolute (as Udina would say) PR shat-storm die out? Its destroying reviews, its getting ridculed by podcasts around many gamer sites, forums after forums talk about how bad the ending is, amazon & origin suddenly giving full refunds. It dosnt make sens to let such bad PR continue.

DLC ending planned all along? No, i seriously doubt that. The millions of copies sold would have had to have a final ending for the trilogy. Only the "loyal fans" (thouse who pre-order, buy CE, hang on BSN forums ect) would benefit from a DLC ending, aka the 50 thousands on facebook.

Either way, BioWare sure gots peoples imagination going. Just as Mr Hudson predicted.

P.s this kinda confirms indoc theory wasnt it: http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

Modifié par Zhijn, 21 mars 2012 - 03:14 .

[nyrocron]

I can only gues that it has already been mentioned in this thread but what about the assertion by someone from BioWare (don't remember who it was) that saving/not saving the Rachni will have an impact on the very end of the game? As there is no impact I know of it would be a hint towards future content.
But as always it could also be just one of the things they "forgot" to put into the final game.

[grmbrand]

Forbes is drinking the Indoctrination Theory kool-aid:

http://www.forbes.co...veryones-heads/

Frankly, I've been on board with it since it was first proposed, because even if BioWare didn't have it planned, it is too damned clever to pass up. If you read the novels, we get a lot of first-hand experience being in the head of someone who is succumbing to indoctrination (Greyson), but so far we haven't experienced it like that in-game.

[Redbelle]

Which came first. The Reaper or the indoctrination? Cause we're all operating under the assumption that Reaper's invented indoctrination. What if indoctrination caused the creation of the Reapers?

Each Reaper is many minds and the DNA of a species. Many minds implies multiple personailties, but they are all united in the Reaper agenda? Sounds like the Reaper may itself be indoctrinated to its own agenda.

In the arrival DLC the holo of Harbinger seemed to contain what looked like a brain. Could be wrong but if this is case Reapers themselves are under the thrall of the signal they carry.

Just a thought.

[greywardencommander]

blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/ 
Bioware speaks, clarification will come in April (pax I'm guessing)

[FrostByte-GER]

****...Irrational Games(BioShock) and Mythic(Warhammer) are standing behind BioWare and their ending....They said also that fans shouldn't force BioWare to change the ending.

My opinion: **** on this statement! BioWare promised us to end Shepards story. But What the **** had they done? BioWare: you are making epic games. But this...this ending is like Bus Simulator 2012 from Astragon-.-

Modifié par FrostByte-GER, 21 mars 2012 - 03:13 .

[nyrocron]

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

/edit: too late, already posted^^


At least they want to make new ME games, which means there has to be some explanation of how it works without Mass Relays:

This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue.

Modifié par nyrocron, 21 mars 2012 - 03:21 .

[Gernbuster]

Zhijn wrote...

Im gonna copy & past my reply to the indoc theory YT vid, would like someone to try and make sens of what i say:

In line with the indoc video. He states your indoctrination start when you get hit by harbinger. Which would mean:

You never get on the citadel to activate the crucible since its just a mind game from there on (harbinger hit). Later Shepard then wake up among rubbles and the reapers are defeated like "puff" gone. FYI took the entire quarian fleet to down a "small" reaper, so no, war assets could not have taken out the reapers by themself.

Heres what i think happen: BioWare had indoc theory, they scrapped it, almost out of time - they took what scenes they had and turned it into a nonsensial mess of an ending!. And because of that, people graps at anything to make sens of it.

Why build the hype of a game that your finally going to fight and beat the reapers, and take earth back if only to end it with some poor excuse of a mind game on Shepard (the player)?. Why End the credits with saying "Reapers have been Defeated".

Most importen: Why havnt BW/EA said anything to calm the mass's and let the absolute (as Udina would say) PR shat-storm die out? Its destroying reviews, its getting ridculed by podcasts around many gamer sites, forums after forums talk about how bad the ending is, amazon & origin suddenly giving full refunds. It dosnt make sens to let such bad PR continue.

DLC ending planned all along? No, i seriously doubt that. The millions of copies sold would have had to have a final ending for the trilogy. Only the "loyal fans" (thouse who pre-order, buy CE, hang on BSN forums ect) would benefit from a DLC ending, aka the 50 thousands on facebook.

Either way, BioWare sure gots peoples imagination going. Just as Mr Hudson predicted.

I think, the ending we got so far has a purpose. They had the indoctrination idea, but ran out of time, so they produced an ending which can either be interpretated as the final one OR if they want to invest some more money in ME3 as just a stop on a longer DLC journey.
Their main fault was to underastimate us, Shepard-fans and the whole ME comunity itsself.
HOLD THE LINE!

[monrapias]

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/ oh well

edit:  I see that I was to late.

Modifié par monrapias, 21 mars 2012 - 03:16 .

[lex0r11]

Redbelle wrote...

Which came first. The Reaper or the indoctrination? Cause we're all operating under the assumption that Reaper's invented indoctrination. What if indoctrination caused the creation of the Reapers?

Each Reaper is many minds and the DNA of a species. Many minds implies multiple personailties, but they are all united in the Reaper agenda? Sounds like the Reaper may itself be indoctrinated to its own agenda.

In the arrival DLC the holo of Harbinger seemed to contain what looked like a brain. Could be wrong but if this is case Reapers themselves are under the thrall of the signal they carry.

Just a thought.

mind -> blown

[nyrocron]

I think with this statement we can be pretty sure that it was not planned.
But there is still the possibility to use this theory as a base for a DLC ending.

[Spectre-61]

Gernbuster wrote...

Zhijn wrote...

Im gonna copy & past my reply to the indoc theory YT vid, would like someone to try and make sens of what i say:

In line with the indoc video. He states your indoctrination start when you get hit by harbinger. Which would mean:

You never get on the citadel to activate the crucible since its just a mind game from there on (harbinger hit). Later Shepard then wake up among rubbles and the reapers are defeated like "puff" gone. FYI took the entire quarian fleet to down a "small" reaper, so no, war assets could not have taken out the reapers by themself.

Heres what i think happen: BioWare had indoc theory, they scrapped it, almost out of time - they took what scenes they had and turned it into a nonsensial mess of an ending!. And because of that, people graps at anything to make sens of it.

Why build the hype of a game that your finally going to fight and beat the reapers, and take earth back if only to end it with some poor excuse of a mind game on Shepard (the player)?. Why End the credits with saying "Reapers have been Defeated".

Most importen: Why havnt BW/EA said anything to calm the mass's and let the absolute (as Udina would say) PR shat-storm die out? Its destroying reviews, its getting ridculed by podcasts around many gamer sites, forums after forums talk about how bad the ending is, amazon & origin suddenly giving full refunds. It dosnt make sens to let such bad PR continue.

DLC ending planned all along? No, i seriously doubt that. The millions of copies sold would have had to have a final ending for the trilogy. Only the "loyal fans" (thouse who pre-order, buy CE, hang on BSN forums ect) would benefit from a DLC ending, aka the 50 thousands on facebook.

Either way, BioWare sure gots peoples imagination going. Just as Mr Hudson predicted.

I think, the ending we got so far has a purpose. They had the indoctrination idea, but ran out of time, so they produced an ending which can either be interpretated as the final one OR if they want to invest some more money in ME3 as just a stop on a longer DLC journey.
Their main fault was to underastimate us, Shepard-fans and the whole ME comunity itsself.
HOLD THE LINE!

If BW really ran out of time for the real ending, it would be no problem to do it now, right?

[Earthborn_Shepard]

So, news will come in April.. and apparently they just confirmed that there WILL be closure DLC.. but it doesn't sound like they planned this!

Also, I absolutely HATE how they always refer to the magazine critics. Yes, the rest of the game was very good, and yes, many fans have become too personal and insulting. But every sentence that goes "HURR DURR but magazines love us" makes me agressive.

[chkchkchk]

 
Here's some hope from Ray Muzyka's comments on the ending.

Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April.  We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received.

To take the optimistic reading, this could mean epilogue DLC that either:
1) Assumes current endings are "real" and simply illustrates what happens after for closure.
2) Assumes indoctrination theory is correct and we get new scenes after waking up.

It does sound like they weren't expecting this backlash, which makes me doubt #2, but you never know...

[lex0r11]

"the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April."

well, pax it is.

[greywardencommander]

chkchkchk wrote...

 
Here's some hope from Ray Muzyka's comments on the ending.

Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April.  We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received.

To take the optimistic reading, this could mean epilogue DLC that either:
1) Assumes current endings are "real" and simply illustrates what happens after for closure.
2) Assumes indoctrination theory is correct and we get new scenes after waking up.

It does sound like they weren't expecting this backlash, which makes me doubt #2, but you never know...

Maybe using the feedback and it's popularity they can just use it and that's what they were trying to work out 'uh guys this fan made stuff is way better than what we thought was a clever use of philosophical paradox, should we use it?'
or even that they thought they put in enough clues so were surprised the backlash was at the endings themselves which to them was obvious clarification was for future dlc rather than backlash at the concept of the dlc (considering the day 1 dlc scandal). Clutching at straws I know.

Modifié par greywardencommander, 21 mars 2012 - 03:24 .

[nyrocron]

greywardencommander wrote...

chkchkchk wrote...

 
Here's some hope from Ray Muzyka's comments on the ending.

Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April.  We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received.

To take the optimistic reading, this could mean epilogue DLC that either:
1) Assumes current endings are "real" and simply illustrates what happens after for closure.
2) Assumes indoctrination theory is correct and we get new scenes after waking up.

It does sound like they weren't expecting this backlash, which makes me doubt #2, but you never know...

Maybe using the feedback and it's popularity they can just use it and that's what they were trying to work out 'uh guys this fan made stuff is way better than what we thought was a clever use of philosophical paradox, should we use it?'

Yes they should! 

Modifié par nyrocron, 21 mars 2012 - 03:22 .

[Redbelle]

lex0r11 wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

Which came first. The Reaper or the indoctrination? Cause we're all operating under the assumption that Reaper's invented indoctrination. What if indoctrination caused the creation of the Reapers?

Each Reaper is many minds and the DNA of a species. Many minds implies multiple personailties, but they are all united in the Reaper agenda? Sounds like the Reaper may itself be indoctrinated to its own agenda.

In the arrival DLC the holo of Harbinger seemed to contain what looked like a brain. Could be wrong but if this is case Reapers themselves are under the thrall of the signal they carry.

Just a thought.

mind -> blown

Further to this theory.... the catalyst. Here is the dictionary definition:

1. (Chemistry) a substance that increases
the rate of a chemical reaction without itself suffering any permanent
chemical change
2. a person or thing that causes a change

Now in my humble opinion the citadel doesn't deserve to be called a catalyst because nothing happened till Shepard made something happen. In that way Shep is the catalyst. If we accept indoc theory then the battle shep is waging against indoc may be the cornerstone of the ending. If he succumbs the reapers win, if he wins the Reapers are faced with a person who has the mental conditioning to use the crucible/citadel to beam that conditioining into the Reaper mind, thereby freeing the minds in the Reapers and eliminating the compulsion to harvest advanced races.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

...Maybe the god child DOES exist, and he's actually the one indoctrinating both Shepard and the Reapers. That would also be pretty interesting.

[BaKaNoOB]

Any news ?

[nyrocron]

BaKaNoOB wrote...

Any news ?

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/ 

[Spectre-61]

lex0r11 wrote...

"the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April."

well, pax it is.

Is this a kinda confirmation of an ending-DLC?

[chkchkchk]

nyrocron wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

chkchkchk wrote...

 
Here's some hope from Ray Muzyka's comments on the ending.

Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April.  We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received.

To take the optimistic reading, this could mean epilogue DLC that either:
1) Assumes current endings are "real" and simply illustrates what happens after for closure.
2) Assumes indoctrination theory is correct and we get new scenes after waking up.

It does sound like they weren't expecting this backlash, which makes me doubt #2, but you never know...

Maybe using the feedback and it's popularity they can just use it and that's what they were trying to work out 'uh guys this fan made stuff is way better than what we thought was a clever use of philosophical paradox, should we use it?'

Yes they should! 

Let's remember that the creative team at Bioware is probably debating AMONGST THEMSELVES what they should do.  Remember that it is a big team and there are a lot of writers.  Some probably agree with us, some probably think we're out of our minds.  I'm sure there is lots of discussion going on.  People are taking notes, bouncing ideas off each other, etc.  They might be revisiting old ideas, discarded ideas, fan ideas, etc.

Modifié par chkchkchk, 21 mars 2012 - 03:32 .

[Robhuzz]

DLC ending planned all along? No, i seriously doubt that. The millions of copies sold would have had to have a final ending for the trilogy. Only the "loyal fans" (thouse who pre-order, buy CE, hang on BSN forums ect) would benefit from a DLC ending, aka the 50 thousands on facebook.

Why would only the 'loyal fans' benefit from this? Origin is mandatory for pc, xbox and ps3 have their own download thingies haven't they? Put the ending in a patch that will auto download and apply before you can even start up the game and voila. Every legal copy of the game now has the endings.

Is this a kinda confirmation of an ending-DLC? 

No, but this is a confirmation that they're working on something and want to keep us in the dark for a bit longer. Still, appreciate the reaction, even though there's a lot he's not telling us that he does know about.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 21 mars 2012 - 03:34 .