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[Dax rattler]

I'm Dax Rattler and this is my favorite ending.

[LadyVakarian]

Icinix wrote...
I'm at work at the moment - but is there anyone willing to chart the lines the Relays blow in the end cutscene and see if they match up to any lines of the relays on the galaxy map in game?

My Previous Post should provide something similar to what you are requesting 

Modifié par LadyVakarian, 22 mars 2012 - 03:02 .

[Dein Justin]

LadyVakarian wrote...

I can understand the confusion and so I made another comparison. I really don't think they can be mistaken for each other considering the very apparent difference in location. I circled the local cluster in Green and the Viper Nebula in Red:

Impressive. Thought that the Viper Nebula was supposed to be already gone after Arrival...hmm...guess BW went too fast with re-making another ending that they overlooked nearly everything about the current ending.

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Lady Vakarian
There is so need to quote a whole book, it takes up the whole page fir nothing

[Absurdest Derivative]

Regarding the necessity of the Destroy ending: I think all three choices are, on the face of them, bad.

Control: Harbinger tricks Shepard into being electrocuted to death.
Synthesis: Harbinger tricks Shepard into jumping into a reactor core.
Destroy: Harbinger tricks Shepard into shooting a power conduit and being caught in an explosion. It doesn't even follow that shooting one of the Crucible's power conduits would have any kind of positive effect.

That's just a literal look. Looking at them as dream constructs, Shepard is possibly indoctrinated in all choices, or having a hallucination from blood loss, and this choice will just represent what goal s/he will have upon waking. It could also be that each of the three choices is a self-destructive suggestion planted in Shepard's mind by Harbinger.

The easter egg where Shepard breathes only occurs following the Destroy ending might be because Shepard was clearly zapped in the other two endings. If Shepard were to wake up following any of the other endings, that would be definitive proof of a hallucination.

Regarding the teleporting squadmates issue: I brought Kaiden and Garrus with me the first time I beat the game. I chose Synthesis and, lo and behold, Kaiden was there at the end with Joker and EDI. I decided to gather more data. Beating the game again with Liara and Vega ... neither showed up in the ending. This was from the save file the game made after kicking me back to the point of no return.

Who did show up in the ending? Kaiden and Garrus.

Is this a coincidence, or does the game save the squadmates you beat it with first? Would different squadmates appear if I played from an earlier save file? Deliberately choosing the squadmates least likely to survive would definitely be suggestive, and I believe @masseffect tweeted something suspicious about this.

Sorry if I'm treading old ground here.

[Icinix]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Lady Vakarian
There is so need to quote a whole book, it takes up the whole page fir nothing

That was my fault - I couldn't remove most the quote as I'm on a small screen at the moment.

[Allaiya]

FellishBeast wrote...

I want to add something.

I'm not sure where I saw this before...but it was an interesting point. It might have been in this thread, idk. It was right after I beat the game and I was scouring Google for information. But apparently pretty much every time you see the child during the earth sequence, he is near or in front of the word "caution" or "danger." I'll look to see if I can find the screenshots again.

Yeah, I mentioned this video before which analyzes the opening in me3. 



At 8:54 you see the 'Warning' sign, and then within 4 minutes near the shuttle pickup of the kid, you also spot 'Danger' for a split second at 13:16 (had to pause the video to see) and then 'Caution' at 13:22.

Modifié par mrfinke, 22 mars 2012 - 02:15 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

@Icinix
Ok that's for the clarification. I don't mean to offend her or anyone it's just kind of annoying

[RADIUMEYEZ]

So any new updates?

[Intomydimension]

 if the final dlc, will rely on the theory of indoctrination to explain the inconsistency of the end shown, noting the evidence found in favor of the theory. will be like but for me NO end would be a mediocre, it will seem mediocre, if it is, but if you support the details that are hidden at first sight in the end, covering well the inconsistencies and giving meaning to anything seen until now, no way in hell would be a bad end, that people not heard the details, and more blinding space junk that is written, is something else ..




would end one of the most original of the gene for me, though not what they promised, not in the disc, we charge for dlc end, not cover it if it's true about the theory already mentioned, is a play master, and to remember ... a mind****, mindblow scale .

[FellishBeast]

mrfinke wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

I want to add something.

I'm not sure where I saw this before...but it was an interesting point. It might have been in this thread, idk. It was right after I beat the game and I was scouring Google for information. But apparently pretty much every time you see the child during the earth sequence, he is near or in front of the word "caution" or "danger." I'll look to see if I can find the screenshots again.

Yeah, I mentioned this video before which analyzes the opening in me3. 



At 8:54 you see the 'Warning' sign, and then within 4 minutes near the shuttle pickup of the kid, you also spot 'Danger' for a split second at 13:16 (had to pause the video to see) and then 'Caution' at 13:22.

Thanks! I couldn't find it again x]

I think that's really interesting, though. I mean...what are the chances? I mean it's possible it's a coincidence...but with everything else? Hmm.

[CLB17]

hey noticed something the last time i played the ending. The god-child says to Shepard "I control the reapers, they are my solution."

This is strange because it has been established that "Reapers" is not the Reapers true name as Sovereogn pointed out in the first game.

"Reaper a label created by the Protheans to give voice to their destruction. In the end what they choose to call us is irrelevant, we simply are."

This could just be oversight by the writers but still...

[Icinix]

@LadyVakarian

Yes - thats what I was after!

Also - as an aside - I'm starting to think Casey and or Mac are indoctrinated.....

[Catreina-JTV]

Absurdest Derivative wrote...

Regarding the necessity of the Destroy ending: I think all three choices are, on the face of them, bad.

Control: Harbinger tricks Shepard into being electrocuted to death.
Synthesis: Harbinger tricks Shepard into jumping into a reactor core.
Destroy: Harbinger tricks Shepard into shooting a power conduit and being caught in an explosion. It doesn't even follow that shooting one of the Crucible's power conduits would have any kind of positive effect.

Just wanted to let you know that your comment about the destroy ending - Shep does not shoot a power conduit on the Crucible - the entire sequence takes place on the Citadel.  This has been contested, but the people contesting it are overlooking a TON of evidence proving that it is indeed the Citadel Shep is on (the only thing that is used to dispute this is the "English lettering" evidence)

Just wanted to clarify that point.


Also, the only easter egg in the ending is the "stargazer" scene - the devs have stated at least once that seeing Shep breathe is not an "easter egg" - I cannot find the source for this at the moment, but it was in this thread where I saw this information so I am sure someone will back me up here.

Modifié par Catreina-JTV, 22 mars 2012 - 02:46 .

[Icinix]

CLB17 wrote...

hey noticed something the last time i played the ending. The god-child says to Shepard "I control the reapers, they are my solution."

This is strange because it has been established that "Reapers" is not the Reapers true name as Sovereogn pointed out in the first game.

"Reaper a label created by the Protheans to give voice to their destruction. In the end what they choose to call us is irrelevant, we simply are."

This could just be oversight by the writers but still...

Pretty much everything the god child says is either an overlook by the writers or indoctrination.

Somestimes he says 'We' sometimes he says 'I' - its scattered and confusing. Which is the idea I imagine. To get you second guessing everything you're seeing and hearing.

[RorickHuon]

Beware of trolls like this >.<

Modifié par RorickHuon, 22 mars 2012 - 02:51 .

[Abram730]

greywardencommander wrote...

jedsithor wrote...

I think my biggest problem with the Indoctrination Theory is that it forces you to choose Destroy in order to keep playing. And how far does it go? Do you only get to keep playing if you got enough EMS to get the "Shepard lives" scene?

If Bioware do release DLC that makes use of Indoctrination, I don't think it can be just for those who chose Destroy. Imagine downloading this DLC, possibly even paying for it, only to receive a message saying "You failed! Please go back and choose Destroy to keep playing!" It's ridiculous.

For that reason, I believe the theory needs to be looked at again. I've no problem believing the theory as a whole but let's say it's true. It means that if you chose synthesis or control, your Shepard is still alive, just indoctrinated. Right? So I guess you could play through the new endgame as indoctrinated Shepard, fighting for the enemy or struggling to break free of indoctrination.

It's not unprecedented in Bioware games. In KOTOR you can turn to the Dark Side but at the very end, Carth shows up and gives you one last chance to redeem yourself. Something like that could work I guess.

The problem with such a scenario in Mass Effect though is that your choices were never really about right and wrong, good and evil. Shepard was never the "bad" guy. You can make him to some rotten things like shoot Mordin in the back, but Renegade Shepard would say it was for the greater good. The choices were about saving the galaxy and what you would do to achieve that. Even the choices at the end of the game, as poorly thought out as they appear to be, are about saving the galaxy from the Reaper threat. Control them, join them or destroy them. Whichever you choose, the threat is over. It's a matter of deciding which is better for the individual player. As it turns out, they're all terrible and make no sense.

Indoctrination, while a cool idea, takes that away. It suggests that there really is only one choice. Can you really play as an indoctrinated Shepard for the final part of the game? If the player chooses synthesis, is he then punished for wanting an ending where organics and synthetics are the same, thus no more wars? Do you then force the player to start gunning down squad members? You've saved the galaxy a couple of times but now you have to play as the villain? It just feels wrong and it goes against the Mass Effect concept just as much as the current endings do.

Maybe it can work, but Bioware need to be really careful about how they implement it should they choose you. Having 3 poor choices is bad enough. But having 1 "real" choice is arguably worse.

this has been accounted for already, for example see my thread.http://social.biowar.../index/10350970 
The idea is that IDT states destroy is the 'best option' because you successfully resist the indoctrination attempt but that does not mean, nor is it ever stated, that anyone who didn't choose destroy are flipped the finger and shouldn't play with these carry over outcomes. in fact many state that the DLC could have you play out as indoctrinated if you choose control/synthesis and have several chances at 'breaking' it again, maybe even a Saren like way right at the end and sacrifice yourself for the greater good. Heck in my one if the player still wants to control Reapers (ultra renegade perhaps) or synthesis (the best way to create peace maybe?) they can. Nothing fundamentally changes.

Vs mode for multiplayer.. I could see that.

[CLB17]

Pretty much everything the god child says is either an overlook by the writers or indoctrination.

Somestimes he says 'We' sometimes he says 'I' - its scattered and confusing. Which is the idea I imagine. To get you second guessing everything you're seeing and hearing.[/quote]

Thats what i thought. I hope to god the IT is true. Its the only way i can stomack the endings.

[Cucobr]

 Forbes FTW!!!


http://www.forbes.co...e-easy-way-out/ 


http://www.forbes.co...veryones-heads/ 

[LadyVakarian]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

@Icinix
Ok that's for the clarification. I don't mean to offend her or anyone it's just kind of annoying

No offense taken! I was also on a smaller screen and was having trouble. I can edit my post if you want, there is no need for me to take up a whole page!  I am back on my 32 inch screen! 

[Recon911PDW]

http://ps3.ign.com/a.../1221273p1.html

Here is some good news.

[Abram730]

Bioware : we are going to bring this to a conclusions and destroy all the rEApers!!
EA: no, fighting reapers is epic
Bioware: But weee(zap)
EA: you were saying
Bioware: 3 more games sounds great. It will be epic.

Personally I'd like 3 more games.. nerf the crucible a bit.

[Dwailing]

Catreina-JTV wrote...

Absurdest Derivative wrote...

Regarding the necessity of the Destroy ending: I think all three choices are, on the face of them, bad.

Control: Harbinger tricks Shepard into being electrocuted to death.
Synthesis: Harbinger tricks Shepard into jumping into a reactor core.
Destroy: Harbinger tricks Shepard into shooting a power conduit and being caught in an explosion. It doesn't even follow that shooting one of the Crucible's power conduits would have any kind of positive effect.

Just wanted to let you know that your comment about the destroy ending - Shep does not shoot a power conduit on the Crucible - the entire sequence takes place on the Citadel.  This has been contested, but the people contesting it are overlooking a TON of evidence proving that it is indeed the Citadel Shep is on (the only thing that is used to dispute this is the "English lettering" evidence)

Just wanted to clarify that point.


Also, the only easter egg in the ending is the "stargazer" scene - the devs have stated at least once that seeing Shep breathe is not an "easter egg" - I cannot find the source for this at the moment, but it was in this thread where I saw this information so I am sure someone will back me up here.

I should also point out that, if the Indoc Theory is true, the Destroy ending does not actually involve shooting a literal power conduit.  Rather, it is symbolic of Shepard fighting off indoctrination. 

[Icinix]

Cucobr wrote...

 Forbes FTW!!!


http://www.forbes.co...e-easy-way-out/ 


http://www.forbes.co...veryones-heads/ 

Also this is an excellent read from Forbes too.

http://www.forbes.co...ffect-3-ending/

Edit: Wait, sorry this one is the one I was meant to post...

http://www.forbes.co...ending-sort-of/

Modifié par Icinix, 22 mars 2012 - 03:15 .

[Dein Justin]

Abram730 wrote...

Bioware : we are going to bring this to a conclusions and destroy all the rEApers!!
EA: no, fighting reapers is epic
Bioware: But weee(zap)
EA: you were saying
Bioware: 3 more games sounds great. It will be epic.

Personally I'd like 3 more games.. nerf the crucible a bit.

I really don't hope you mean that...waiting for another trilogy happening...just to get answers for this trilogy..BW would be better just developing Jade Empire universe, less DA (DA2 killed it for me..really wanted an option to kill Anders to stop him from whining)..sigh~

Imagine...after 6 games, finding your decisions doesn't matter at all in the end, needing to replay 6 games of each completion takes 30 hours...sigh~