57139 réponses à ce sujet

[monrapias]

Gernbuster wrote...

monrapias wrote...

variobunz wrote...

ZajoE38 wrote...

Shepard implanted with reaper tech by TIM in project Lazarus? Makes sense to me. Because being renegade shepard has this "indoctrination shaped" eyes. Just red instead of blue. He resist that of course by being paragon and good person, preserving his will. Should Shepard be renegade, he accepts the means of TIM. And indoctrinated TIM could fill Shepard with reaper tech on demand of Reapers. As they plan to turn Shepard against humanity, make him their agent. We all know that Shepard has a strong will. He can eventually reject those implants acting paragon and make them inactive. Beginning ME1 "Is he the kind of person we want protecting the galaxy? He's the only person who CAN protect the galaxy" Or if we lose Shepard humanity might well follow. Should the Reapers finish the indoctrination proces on him during the ending. Shepard is their agent able to sabotage entire fleets and let Reapers to finish the cycle.

If Shep really had reaper tech implanted, why didn't the prothean VI on Thessian detected them, like when Leng showed up?

And neither does liara when she "embraces eternity" with you.

Liara can only detect emotions,feelings, memories, etc 
Shepard doesn t know it, means she can t detect it right? ^^

Even if that is true, the VI on thesia doesn't find anything odd about shepard either.

[sunnie7699]

monrapias wrote...

michal9o90 wrote...

monrapias wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

byne wrote...


19) Anderson is clearly killed by the laser

Woah woah woah where does anyone see this? 

Well you don't see it, but on the radio  someone is saying that no one made it to the beam, everyone is dead.

if everyone is dead, how did shepard and anderson get there?

Well one reaper can destroy with one shoot even destiny ascension, and harbringer can't kill shep with one shoot?

You're missing the point, I'm not saying that shepard died, I'm saying that anderson died.

Hmm he could have died, we have no real proof that he does, seeing as the IT suggests that everything that happened after Shep got knocked out by the laser was a hallucination. So who knows if whatever was said on the radio was actually even said in reality? Or maybe shepard was still sort of conscious right at the start of the hallucination and actually DID hear that no one made it to the beam in real life, so Anderson could have just been knocked out like Shepard, or could be dead.

[CitadelSurfer]

monrapias wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

monrapias wrote...

variobunz wrote...

ZajoE38 wrote...

Shepard implanted with reaper tech by TIM in project Lazarus? Makes sense to me. Because being renegade shepard has this "indoctrination shaped" eyes. Just red instead of blue. He resist that of course by being paragon and good person, preserving his will. Should Shepard be renegade, he accepts the means of TIM. And indoctrinated TIM could fill Shepard with reaper tech on demand of Reapers. As they plan to turn Shepard against humanity, make him their agent. We all know that Shepard has a strong will. He can eventually reject those implants acting paragon and make them inactive. Beginning ME1 "Is he the kind of person we want protecting the galaxy? He's the only person who CAN protect the galaxy" Or if we lose Shepard humanity might well follow. Should the Reapers finish the indoctrination proces on him during the ending. Shepard is their agent able to sabotage entire fleets and let Reapers to finish the cycle.

If Shep really had reaper tech implanted, why didn't the prothean VI on Thessian detected them, like when Leng showed up?

And neither does liara when she "embraces eternity" with you.

Liara can only detect emotions,feelings, memories, etc 
Shepard doesn t know it, means she can t detect it right? ^^

Even if that is true, the VI on thesia doesn't find anything odd about shepard either.

But the reapers were trying to get into Shepards mind from the start with those weird dreams?! So surely on Thessia he may have been slightly indoctrinated. Maybe because EDI was there his secuirty protocols got overidden for the team, then when an unexpected guest came it then got alerted. 

Who knows but if he only gets indoctrinated when he gets hit by the beam then things like what Vega said about humming in the ship and other little clues go out the window.

Plus the whole thing with Object Rho and getting blasted by that and getting knocked out for 2 days. Surely that would have a major affect on his brain and indoctrination 

Modifié par CitadelSurfer, 22 mars 2012 - 11:09 .

[ZajoE38]

Synthetics and organics chaos theory is not valid. Because Geth and Quarians are cooperating and there is no sign that Protheans created AI that killed them, is it? I thing that Catalyst is not even controlling Reapers. I thing the Catalyst is Harbinger.

[Desecron]

I'm sure you guys have seen this, Patrick Weekes' outburst on Penny Arcade:

http://www.gameranx....versial-ending/

"I was tearing up for the quick flashbacks to old friends and the death of Anderson."

If indoc theory is true, why would one of the writers tear up over the death of a hallucination?

EDIT - never mind, just saw that the above was debunked as fake, phew

Modifié par Desecron, 22 mars 2012 - 11:12 .

[Gernbuster]

michal9o90 wrote...

@Gernbuster Bull **** Drew, left ME series during creating ME2 in half way, at the end, whole ME2 plot story was dependent on others creators.

And we saw how bad was ME2, has almost nothing to do with main story. Only missions related with main story, was.

1. Atack on SR-1

2. First colony, i didn't remmber the name

3 Horyzont

4. Collectors ship

5. Reaper Body

6. Collectors Base.

This is our ME2, rest is just almost for nothing maybe only geth story line is insteresting.

[monrapias]

CitadelSurfer wrote...

monrapias wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

monrapias wrote...

variobunz wrote...

ZajoE38 wrote...

Shepard implanted with reaper tech by TIM in project Lazarus? Makes sense to me. Because being renegade shepard has this "indoctrination shaped" eyes. Just red instead of blue. He resist that of course by being paragon and good person, preserving his will. Should Shepard be renegade, he accepts the means of TIM. And indoctrinated TIM could fill Shepard with reaper tech on demand of Reapers. As they plan to turn Shepard against humanity, make him their agent. We all know that Shepard has a strong will. He can eventually reject those implants acting paragon and make them inactive. Beginning ME1 "Is he the kind of person we want protecting the galaxy? He's the only person who CAN protect the galaxy" Or if we lose Shepard humanity might well follow. Should the Reapers finish the indoctrination proces on him during the ending. Shepard is their agent able to sabotage entire fleets and let Reapers to finish the cycle.

If Shep really had reaper tech implanted, why didn't the prothean VI on Thessian detected them, like when Leng showed up?

And neither does liara when she "embraces eternity" with you.

Liara can only detect emotions,feelings, memories, etc 
Shepard doesn t know it, means she can t detect it right? ^^

Even if that is true, the VI on thesia doesn't find anything odd about shepard either.

But the reapers were trying to get into Shepards mind from the start with those weird dreams?! So surely on Thessia he may have been slightly indoctrinated. Maybe because EDI was there his secuirty protocols got overidden for the team, then when an unexpected guest came it then got alerted. 

Who knows but if he only gets indoctrinated when he gets hit by the beam then things like what Vega said about humming in the ship and other little clues go out the window.

Plus the whole thing with Object Rho and getting blasted by that and getting knocked out for 2 days. Surely that would have a major affect on his brain and indoctrination 

Edi wasn't there.

I'm not dissagreeing with everything, I just don't think it started as early as some say.   I still support the theory.

[Erethrian]

monrapias wrote...

CitadelSurfer wrote...
...

But the reapers were trying to get into Shepards mind from the start with those weird dreams?! So surely on Thessia he may have been slightly indoctrinated. Maybe because EDI was there his secuirty protocols got overidden for the team, then when an unexpected guest came it then got alerted. 

Who knows but if he only gets indoctrinated when he gets hit by the beam then things like what Vega said about humming in the ship and other little clues go out the window.

Plus the whole thing with Object Rho and getting blasted by that and getting knocked out for 2 days. Surely that would have a major affect on his brain and indoctrination 

Edi wasn't there.

I'm not dissagreeing with everything, I just don't think it started as early as some say.   I still support the theory.

EDIT: Misunderstood what CitadelSurfer was saying. But, EDI was there when the Prothean VI specifies that its security protocols have been overridden.

In fact, when the VI says that, EDI was there. Inside TIM's base.

Modifié par Erethrian, 22 mars 2012 - 11:14 .

[Gernbuster]

He wrote the Story at least till the end of ME2, there where other influences right, but how do u think he managed to write the third book, which take place after the story of ME2, if he allready left the ME universe? ^^

Btw: i am not completly sure about it, but I read that the deleted leaked dark energie ending was originally still his work. He gave Bioware his mainstory before he left, but thats only what I read got no proof.

Modifié par Gernbuster, 22 mars 2012 - 11:15 .

[monrapias]

Erethrian wrote...

monrapias wrote...

CitadelSurfer wrote...
...

But the reapers were trying to get into Shepards mind from the start with those weird dreams?! So surely on Thessia he may have been slightly indoctrinated. Maybe because EDI was there his secuirty protocols got overidden for the team, then when an unexpected guest came it then got alerted. 

Who knows but if he only gets indoctrinated when he gets hit by the beam then things like what Vega said about humming in the ship and other little clues go out the window.

Plus the whole thing with Object Rho and getting blasted by that and getting knocked out for 2 days. Surely that would have a major affect on his brain and indoctrination 

Edi wasn't there.

I'm not dissagreeing with everything, I just don't think it started as early as some say.   I still support the theory.

In fact, when the VI says that, EDI was there. Inside TIM's base.

Thought he ment on thessia.

[Erethrian]

monrapias wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

monrapias wrote...

CitadelSurfer wrote...
...

But the reapers were trying to get into Shepards mind from the start with those weird dreams?! So surely on Thessia he may have been slightly indoctrinated. Maybe because EDI was there his secuirty protocols got overidden for the team, then when an unexpected guest came it then got alerted. 

Who knows but if he only gets indoctrinated when he gets hit by the beam then things like what Vega said about humming in the ship and other little clues go out the window.

Plus the whole thing with Object Rho and getting blasted by that and getting knocked out for 2 days. Surely that would have a major affect on his brain and indoctrination 

Edi wasn't there.

I'm not dissagreeing with everything, I just don't think it started as early as some say.   I still support the theory.

In fact, when the VI says that, EDI was there. Inside TIM's base.

Thought he ment on thessia.

Yep, I think the same after reading it a second, time, sorry. Already modified the post.

Modifié par Erethrian, 22 mars 2012 - 11:15 .

[ZajoE38]

The Thesia VI could be a plothole. Guys from BW surely was under deadline pressure and made a mistake. Or as I say. Those implants could be dormant.

[Erethrian]

ZajoE38 wrote...

The Thesia VI could be a plothole. Guys from BW surely was under deadline pressure and made a mistake. Or as I say. Those implants could be dormant.

I'm sure it wasn't that. Here some facts-

Kai Leng is detected as Indoctrinated presence.

Protheans failed because of indoctrinated agents, even with those VIs.

The Prothean VI says "Protocols Overridden" when EDI is with you at Tim's base.

Conclusion:

The Prothean VI can only detect individuals using reaper tech.

[BigZ7337]

I have a few things to add on both sides of the argument about the Indoctrination Theory (sorry this is much longer than I intended originally).

Against: If this was Bioware's intent, to give the fans a non ending and then come back and have you buy some dlc where they'll tell the player that it was all a dream, then it is a complete failure. With the horrible backlash, it would have caused Bioware to appease their fans with a dlc announcement much earlier, and in a way different from how they've delivered their official messages. I mean Mass Effect 3 has a 2/5 star rating on Amazon, which is an absolutely huge deal.

In Between: This is what I believe at the moment, that this indoctrination of Shepard was intended throughout the whole game (and maybe in previous games) but was cut late in development due to some issue (in the one app it said something like there was supposed to be a battle with indoctrination, but they scrapped it due to gameplay issues). They then didn't have the time to go back and fix everything and just left it as it is. Their hope was that no one would notice, or that if they wanted they could come back and revisit the game with a revenue producing epilogue expansion pack.

For: I have trouble believing that the same writers that created some of my favorite and most powerful events (Rannoch and Tuchanka) in my long gaming history (and possibly all media, coming close to tying with my favorite moments in my most beloved books and movies) would also write that terrible and plot hole ridden ending for ME3. It might even be possible that the writers implied the Indoctrination Theory, but never had the intent to come out and tell the player about it directly. However, since there has been such a backlash, Bioware might go back on their intention and give their fans a chance at experiencing a real ending. Something else I've thought of, is that there is no previous precedent that an indoctrinated organic being can control another being, even if they're already indoctrinated. In ME1, Saren couldn't control his underlings directly, it was always Sovereign controlling them. So since I didn't see a Reaper anywhere on the Citadel, I don't see how the Illusive Man could control Shepard.

One last thing that's only partly related, I think that the Crucible must be a trap. If there is even a slightest possibility of the Crucible being able to destroy all of the Reapers, they would not allow its existence. It was also stated by the Prothean VI that a group of the Scientists working on the Crucible that wanted to attempt to control the Reapers turned out to be indoctrinated. So there we have another example of only indoctrinated minds thinking they can Control the Reapers, and the fact that the Reapers knew of the Crucible's existence. I think that the Crucible is actually a Reaper artifact instead of something that the most advanced species in each cycle has added to in order to stop the Reapers. I just find it incredibly fishy that the Prothean data that contained the plans for the Crucible doesn't come to light until after the Reapers attack Earth (plus it is first found by indoctrinated forces). Then the fact that the Reapers never attack or disturb the production of the all-powerful weapon that could destroy them, and that they leave the Citadel/Catalyst completely alone until the end as well, just makes me think the Reapers wanted to encourage the building of the Crucible. I mean what better way to distract the entire Galaxy, than to let them eat up their time, effort, and resources on a project that wouldn't work or might even be a weapon for the Reapers. What further supports this is the fact that the Citadel is needed for the Crucible to work, and we can assume that in every previous cycle the Reapers used the Citadel as the gigantic Mass Relay that it is to in one fell swoop control the center of the Galaxy (something Shepard stopped in ME1). So even if they had successfully built the Crucible they wouldn't have been able to use it.

One more thing here (this post is much longer than I originally intended), I found it really strange that in the previous ME games the Reapers were practically Chatty Kathy's yet in ME3 they never say a word. What if each time they conversed with Shepard, they were very slowly starting/continuing the indoctrination process, but now in ME3 they were deep enough in his/her mind to try a different tactic, the Child.

Also, the actual production of a Reaper is never really defined, other than that the most appropriate species in each cycle is melted down to primordial ooze that slowly creates the powerful synthetic/organic hybrid. What we saw in ME2 was obviously an incomplete or flawed attempt at creating a new Reaper, yet why don't we see another attempt in ME3? From the colonies that the Collectors harvested in ME2, one can assume that they melted down not much more than a couple million human beings. In ME3, from attacking Earth directly and in force I would guess that at least a couple billion humans have been melted down and absorbed, so where is the new Reaper that is probably being built and is much further along by the end of the game than what we saw in ME2? From what the God-Child AI said, the Citadel is at least its home, but maybe even its body. If It is also the Creator of the Reapers, then one can hypothesize that Reapers might not be able to reproduce by themselves, and instead need the help of their Creator. I noticed that Sovereign and Harbinger seemed to talk as a singular mind, yet they were created by the melding of an entire species. What if to complete a Reaper, the best example of the Species must be integrated into the construct (as Shepard is when he picks the Control or Synthesize options). So in the endings we are given, in 2 of 3 of them Shepard becomes a Reaper, but in the third he repels the indoctrination and wakes up in a pile of rubble on Earth. (Not sure if any of that made sense, but it's an idea)

[CitadelSurfer]

Tis all very interesting regarding shep and reaper tech. Hell could be reaching but he could just be pieced together with some high tech, then when he gets blasted by object rho it puts a tiny amount of reaper tech into his current tech. And then the more and more shepard loses hope the easier it is for the reaper tech to get into his mind and indoctrinate him. Then when Harby comes down and knocks him down, his mind is blown wide open.

Just a little thought!

[Gernbuster]

ZajoE38 wrote...

The Thesia VI could be a plothole. Guys from BW surely was under deadline pressure and made a mistake. Or as I say. Those implants could be dormant.

mhhhh, he recognizes preaper pressence. He is able to recognize indoctrinated people.
Possiblity one, Shep isn t indoctrinated enough and he can t detect Sheps Reapertech because it is everywhere on the planet at the time, or plottwhole ...

[Erethrian]

Gernbuster wrote...

ZajoE38 wrote...

The Thesia VI could be a plothole. Guys from BW surely was under deadline pressure and made a mistake. Or as I say. Those implants could be dormant.

mhhhh, he recognizes preaper pressence. He is able to recognize indoctrinated people.
Possiblity one, Shep isn t indoctrinated enough and he can t detect Sheps Reapertech because it is everywhere on the planet at the time, or plottwhole ...

Any thoughts about this? ^^

"I'm sure it wasn't that. Here some facts-

Kai Leng is detected as Indoctrinated presence.

Protheans failed because of indoctrinated agents, even with those VIs.

The Prothean VI says "Protocols Overridden" when EDI is with you at Tim's base.

Conclusion:

The Prothean VI can only detect individuals using reaper tech."

Modifié par Erethrian, 22 mars 2012 - 11:24 .

[Gernbuster]

CitadelSurfer wrote...

Tis all very interesting regarding shep and reaper tech. Hell could be reaching but he could just be pieced together with some high tech, then when he gets blasted by object rho it puts a tiny amount of reaper tech into his current tech. And then the more and more shepard loses hope the easier it is for the reaper tech to get into his mind and indoctrinate him. Then when Harby comes down and knocks him down, his mind is blown wide open.

Just a little thought!

We know Cerberus is using Reaper Tech all the time, we also know it is impossible to for the other species to resurect dead(smashed and burned and frozen and i don t know what else) people. From the 3rd book we know, that the Reaper tech inside Paul Greyson is able to keep him alive and heal him even deadly wounded.
We could think about Saren who suddenly turned into this creepy red reaper guy, but maybe thats a little to far, or not? Saren, under his skin, which  u see at the end got which color?
And whats Shepards under skin color?

[Redbelle]

BigZ7337 wrote...

I have a few things to add on both sides of the argument about the Indoctrination Theory (sorry this is much longer than I intended originally).

Against: If this was Bioware's intent, to give the fans a non ending and then come back and have you buy some dlc where they'll tell the player that it was all a dream, then it is a complete failure. With the horrible backlash, it would have caused Bioware to appease their fans with a dlc announcement much earlier, and in a way different from how they've delivered their official messages. I mean Mass Effect 3 has a 2/5 star rating on Amazon, which is an absolutely huge deal.

In Between: This is what I believe at the moment, that this indoctrination of Shepard was intended throughout the whole game (and maybe in previous games) but was cut late in development due to some issue (in the one app it said something like there was supposed to be a battle with indoctrination, but they scrapped it due to gameplay issues). They then didn't have the time to go back and fix everything and just left it as it is. Their hope was that no one would notice, or that if they wanted they could come back and revisit the game with a revenue producing epilogue expansion pack.

For: I have trouble believing that the same writers that created some of my favorite and most powerful events (Rannoch and Tuchanka) in my long gaming history (and possibly all media, coming close to tying with my favorite moments in my most beloved books and movies) would also write that terrible and plot hole ridden ending for ME3. It might even be possible that the writers implied the Indoctrination Theory, but never had the intent to come out and tell the player about it directly. However, since there has been such a backlash, Bioware might go back on their intention and give their fans a chance at experiencing a real ending. Something else I've thought of, is that there is no previous precedent that an indoctrinated organic being can control another being, even if they're already indoctrinated. In ME1, Saren couldn't control his underlings directly, it was always Sovereign controlling them. So since I didn't see a Reaper anywhere on the Citadel, I don't see how the Illusive Man could control Shepard.

One last thing that's only partly related, I think that the Crucible must be a trap. If there is even a slightest possibility of the Crucible being able to destroy all of the Reapers, they would not allow its existence. It was also stated by the Prothean VI that a group of the Scientists working on the Crucible that wanted to attempt to control the Reapers turned out to be indoctrinated. So there we have another example of only indoctrinated minds thinking they can Control the Reapers, and the fact that the Reapers knew of the Crucible's existence. I think that the Crucible is actually a Reaper artifact instead of something that the most advanced species in each cycle has added to in order to stop the Reapers. I just find it incredibly fishy that the Prothean data that contained the plans for the Crucible doesn't come to light until after the Reapers attack Earth (plus it is first found by indoctrinated forces). Then the fact that the Reapers never attack or disturb the production of the all-powerful weapon that could destroy them, and that they leave the Citadel/Catalyst completely alone until the end as well, just makes me think the Reapers wanted to encourage the building of the Crucible. I mean what better way to distract the entire Galaxy, than to let them eat up their time, effort, and resources on a project that wouldn't work or might even be a weapon for the Reapers. What further supports this is the fact that the Citadel is needed for the Crucible to work, and we can assume that in every previous cycle the Reapers used the Citadel as the gigantic Mass Relay that it is to in one fell swoop control the center of the Galaxy (something Shepard stopped in ME1). So even if they had successfully built the Crucible they wouldn't have been able to use it.

One more thing here (this post is much longer than I originally intended), I found it really strange that in the previous ME games the Reapers were practically Chatty Kathy's yet in ME3 they never say a word. What if each time they conversed with Shepard, they were very slowly starting/continuing the indoctrination process, but now in ME3 they were deep enough in his/her mind to try a different tactic, the Child.

Also, the actual production of a Reaper is never really defined, other than that the most appropriate species in each cycle is melted down to primordial ooze that slowly creates the powerful synthetic/organic hybrid. What we saw in ME2 was obviously an incomplete or flawed attempt at creating a new Reaper, yet why don't we see another attempt in ME3? From the colonies that the Collectors harvested in ME2, one can assume that they melted down not much more than a couple million human beings. In ME3, from attacking Earth directly and in force I would guess that at least a couple billion humans have been melted down and absorbed, so where is the new Reaper that is probably being built and is much further along by the end of the game than what we saw in ME2? From what the God-Child AI said, the Citadel is at least its home, but maybe even its body. If It is also the Creator of the Reapers, then one can hypothesize that Reapers might not be able to reproduce by themselves, and instead need the help of their Creator. I noticed that Sovereign and Harbinger seemed to talk as a singular mind, yet they were created by the melding of an entire species. What if to complete a Reaper, the best example of the Species must be integrated into the construct (as Shepard is when he picks the Control or Synthesize options). So in the endings we are given, in 2 of 3 of them Shepard becomes a Reaper, but in the third he repels the indoctrination and wakes up in a pile of rubble on Earth. (Not sure if any of that made sense, but it's an idea)

See, this is why we should fear the reapers. They aren't just immovalbe objects and unstoppable forces. Even when you think they aren't attacking you, they are attacking you in ways we haven't imagined. Theyve had 50 000 years to plot how to harvest all species so I think they are in good practice. It just needs to be reflected in game

Modifié par Redbelle, 22 mars 2012 - 11:32 .

[nyrocron]

Concerning the low rating on Amazon: Battlefield 3 also had really bad ratings (because of Origin) and I think it was a great success anyways. I really don't think it is that big of a deal.

[Erethrian]

BigZ7337 wrote...

I have a few things to add on both sides of the argument about the Indoctrination Theory (sorry this is much longer than I intended originally).

Against: If this was Bioware's intent, to give the fans a non ending and then come back and have you buy some dlc where they'll tell the player that it was all a dream, then it is a complete failure. With the horrible backlash, it would have caused Bioware to appease their fans with a dlc announcement much earlier, and in a way different from how they've delivered their official messages. I mean Mass Effect 3 has a 2/5 star rating on Amazon, which is an absolutely huge deal.

In Between: This is what I believe at the moment, that this indoctrination of Shepard was intended throughout the whole game (and maybe in previous games) but was cut late in development due to some issue (in the one app it said something like there was supposed to be a battle with indoctrination, but they scrapped it due to gameplay issues). They then didn't have the time to go back and fix everything and just left it as it is. Their hope was that no one would notice, or that if they wanted they could come back and revisit the game with a revenue producing epilogue expansion pack.

For: I have trouble believing that the same writers that created some of my favorite and most powerful events (Rannoch and Tuchanka) in my long gaming history (and possibly all media, coming close to tying with my favorite moments in my most beloved books and movies) would also write that terrible and plot hole ridden ending for ME3. It might even be possible that the writers implied the Indoctrination Theory, but never had the intent to come out and tell the player about it directly. However, since there has been such a backlash, Bioware might go back on their intention and give their fans a chance at experiencing a real ending. Something else I've thought of, is that there is no previous precedent that an indoctrinated organic being can control another being, even if they're already indoctrinated. In ME1, Saren couldn't control his underlings directly, it was always Sovereign controlling them. So since I didn't see a Reaper anywhere on the Citadel, I don't see how the Illusive Man could control Shepard.

One last thing that's only partly related, I think that the Crucible must be a trap. If there is even a slightest possibility of the Crucible being able to destroy all of the Reapers, they would not allow its existence. It was also stated by the Prothean VI that a group of the Scientists working on the Crucible that wanted to attempt to control the Reapers turned out to be indoctrinated. So there we have another example of only indoctrinated minds thinking they can Control the Reapers, and the fact that the Reapers knew of the Crucible's existence. I think that the Crucible is actually a Reaper artifact instead of something that the most advanced species in each cycle has added to in order to stop the Reapers. I just find it incredibly fishy that the Prothean data that contained the plans for the Crucible doesn't come to light until after the Reapers attack Earth (plus it is first found by indoctrinated forces). Then the fact that the Reapers never attack or disturb the production of the all-powerful weapon that could destroy them, and that they leave the Citadel/Catalyst completely alone until the end as well, just makes me think the Reapers wanted to encourage the building of the Crucible. I mean what better way to distract the entire Galaxy, than to let them eat up their time, effort, and resources on a project that wouldn't work or might even be a weapon for the Reapers. What further supports this is the fact that the Citadel is needed for the Crucible to work, and we can assume that in every previous cycle the Reapers used the Citadel as the gigantic Mass Relay that it is to in one fell swoop control the center of the Galaxy (something Shepard stopped in ME1). So even if they had successfully built the Crucible they wouldn't have been able to use it.

One more thing here (this post is much longer than I originally intended), I found it really strange that in the previous ME games the Reapers were practically Chatty Kathy's yet in ME3 they never say a word. What if each time they conversed with Shepard, they were very slowly starting/continuing the indoctrination process, but now in ME3 they were deep enough in his/her mind to try a different tactic, the Child.

Also, the actual production of a Reaper is never really defined, other than that the most appropriate species in each cycle is melted down to primordial ooze that slowly creates the powerful synthetic/organic hybrid. What we saw in ME2 was obviously an incomplete or flawed attempt at creating a new Reaper, yet why don't we see another attempt in ME3? From the colonies that the Collectors harvested in ME2, one can assume that they melted down not much more than a couple million human beings. In ME3, from attacking Earth directly and in force I would guess that at least a couple billion humans have been melted down and absorbed, so where is the new Reaper that is probably being built and is much further along by the end of the game than what we saw in ME2? From what the God-Child AI said, the Citadel is at least its home, but maybe even its body. If It is also the Creator of the Reapers, then one can hypothesize that Reapers might not be able to reproduce by themselves, and instead need the help of their Creator. I noticed that Sovereign and Harbinger seemed to talk as a singular mind, yet they were created by the melding of an entire species. What if to complete a Reaper, the best example of the Species must be integrated into the construct (as Shepard is when he picks the Control or Synthesize options). So in the endings we are given, in 2 of 3 of them Shepard becomes a Reaper, but in the third he repels the indoctrination and wakes up in a pile of rubble on Earth. (Not sure if any of that made sense, but it's an idea)

Yeah, nice read.  I can only wait for them(BW) to say "And here's the conclusion, the end of the journey, did you beat... ... Indoctrination? :D" on April 6th. Can'rt wait!

[mic-n]

Erethrian wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

ZajoE38 wrote...

The Thesia VI could be a plothole. Guys from BW surely was under deadline pressure and made a mistake. Or as I say. Those implants could be dormant.

mhhhh, he recognizes preaper pressence. He is able to recognize indoctrinated people.
Possiblity one, Shep isn t indoctrinated enough and he can t detect Sheps Reapertech because it is everywhere on the planet at the time, or plottwhole ...

Any thoughts about this? ^^

"I'm sure it wasn't that. Here some facts-

Kai Leng is detected as Indoctrinated presence.

Protheans failed because of indoctrinated agents, even with those VIs.

The Prothean VI says "Protocols Overridden" when EDI is with you at Tim's base.

Conclusion:

The Prothean VI can only detect individuals using reaper tech."

Besides that, I suppose that Shepard never really was indoctrinated till he gets offered the three ending options. So the VI wasn't able to detect Shepard as indoctrinated, because he wasn't, at that point. Kai Leng is already completely indoctrinated, Shepard's mind is just weakend by the reapers.

[MJF JD]

ZajoE38 wrote...

Synthetics and organics chaos theory is not valid. Because Geth and Quarians are cooperating and there is no sign that Protheans created AI that killed them, is it? I thing that Catalyst is not even controlling Reapers. I thing the Catalyst is Harbinger.

actually Javik mentions that the protheans were in a big war with synthetics that they had created and were finally making progress against them when the reapers arrived.  

[Erethrian]

mic-n wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

ZajoE38 wrote...

The Thesia VI could be a plothole. Guys from BW surely was under deadline pressure and made a mistake. Or as I say. Those implants could be dormant.

mhhhh, he recognizes preaper pressence. He is able to recognize indoctrinated people.
Possiblity one, Shep isn t indoctrinated enough and he can t detect Sheps Reapertech because it is everywhere on the planet at the time, or plottwhole ...

Any thoughts about this? ^^

"I'm sure it wasn't that. Here some facts-

Kai Leng is detected as Indoctrinated presence.

Protheans failed because of indoctrinated agents, even with those VIs.

The Prothean VI says "Protocols Overridden" when EDI is with you at Tim's base.

Conclusion:

The Prothean VI can only detect individuals using reaper tech."

Besides that, I suppose that Shepard never really was indoctrinated till he gets offered the three ending options. So the VI wasn't able to detect Shepard as indoctrinated, because he wasn't, at that point. Kai Leng is already completely indoctrinated, Shepard's mind is just weakend by the reapers.

That's what I think.

The entire game seems an indoctrination attempt to me, but the attempt gets stronger at the end, when he's in front of Harbinger, after that if Shepard chooses right, then he's not indoctrinated. My thoughts, anyway.

Modifié par Erethrian, 22 mars 2012 - 11:39 .

[Turbotanden]

We need to keep in mind that there are differences between the process of indoctrination and being fully indoctrinated.