57139 réponses à ce sujet

[monrapias]

Erethrian wrote...

mic-n wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

ZajoE38 wrote...

The Thesia VI could be a plothole. Guys from BW surely was under deadline pressure and made a mistake. Or as I say. Those implants could be dormant.

mhhhh, he recognizes preaper pressence. He is able to recognize indoctrinated people.
Possiblity one, Shep isn t indoctrinated enough and he can t detect Sheps Reapertech because it is everywhere on the planet at the time, or plottwhole ...

Any thoughts about this? ^^

"I'm sure it wasn't that. Here some facts-

Kai Leng is detected as Indoctrinated presence.

Protheans failed because of indoctrinated agents, even with those VIs.

The Prothean VI says "Protocols Overridden" when EDI is with you at Tim's base.

Conclusion:

The Prothean VI can only detect individuals using reaper tech."

Besides that, I suppose that Shepard never really was indoctrinated till he gets offered the three ending options. So the VI wasn't able to detect Shepard as indoctrinated, because he wasn't, at that point. Kai Leng is already completely indoctrinated, Shepard's mind is just weakend by the reapers.

That's what I think.

The entire game seems an indoctrination attempt to me, but the attempt gets stronger at the end, when he's in front of Harbinger, after that if Shepard chooses right, then he's not indoctrinated. My thoughts, anyway.

  I agree, it seems more likely.

[Gernbuster]

If i think back on ME decisions, i get the feeling that being renegade is some sort helping the reapers, at the very begining of ME1 souvereign sends out this painful signal and we all know indoctrination can take place from the first conntact to reaper tech. I don t want to say Shepard IS indoctrinated ALL the time from the very beginning, but maybe there always was a little reaper whispering in his ear and got stronger over time. Maybe u listen to him when u kill the Rachni
Maybe u listen to him when u destroy the cure to the genophage in ME2 mordins loyality quest.
Maybe u even listen to him, when leaving the council to die.
I don t know, but everything is possible right now

[Stigweird85]

Erethrian wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

ZajoE38 wrote...

The Thesia VI could be a plothole. Guys from BW surely was under deadline pressure and made a mistake. Or as I say. Those implants could be dormant.

mhhhh, he recognizes preaper pressence. He is able to recognize indoctrinated people.
Possiblity one, Shep isn t indoctrinated enough and he can t detect Sheps Reapertech because it is everywhere on the planet at the time, or plottwhole ...

Any thoughts about this? ^^

"I'm sure it wasn't that. Here some facts-

Kai Leng is detected as Indoctrinated presence.

Protheans failed because of indoctrinated agents, even with those VIs.

The Prothean VI says "Protocols Overridden" when EDI is with you at Tim's base.

Conclusion:

The Prothean VI can only detect individuals using reaper tech."

What about this as a thought, just because someone does the bidding of a reaper it doesn't automatically mean they are indoctrinated. That hanar in the citadel -  Shep accusses him as being indoctrinated but I think it's logical and would probably make similar decisions in his position.

As for the Protean VI, perhaps it can only detect full and active indoctrination and not partial or sleeper agents. If it could it would never have been fooled in the first place.

[Redbelle]

Gernbuster wrote...

If i think back on ME decisions, i get the feeling that being renegade is some sort helping the reapers, at the very begining of ME1 souvereign sends out this painful signal and we all know indoctrination can take place from the first conntact to reaper tech. I don t want to say Shepard IS indoctrinated ALL the time from the very beginning, but maybe there always was a little reaper whispering in his ear and got stronger over time. Maybe u listen to him when u kill the Rachni
Maybe u listen to him when u destroy the cure to the genophage in ME2 mordins loyality quest.
Maybe u even listen to him, when leaving the council to die.
I don t know, but everything is possible right now

The matrix had a similar backlash in it's ending if I remember rightly. The brothers later released a game and at the very end they turned up in 2d bit form and explained that in death Neo choose choice over choicelessness, or something there abouts. From my perspective it was bad plotting and writing that left ppl scratching heads and asking, where did all the greatness and promise from the first movie go?

BW need to take a lesson out of the Matrix's ending because having the directors sit down and explain it all to you is not good practice. I'll suspend my disbelief for a movie or game, but it can only be pushed so far and BW breached that line in the last 10 mins of ME3

[Erethrian]

bigstig wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

ZajoE38 wrote...

The Thesia VI could be a plothole. Guys from BW surely was under deadline pressure and made a mistake. Or as I say. Those implants could be dormant.

mhhhh, he recognizes preaper pressence. He is able to recognize indoctrinated people.
Possiblity one, Shep isn t indoctrinated enough and he can t detect Sheps Reapertech because it is everywhere on the planet at the time, or plottwhole ...

Any thoughts about this? ^^

"I'm sure it wasn't that. Here some facts-

Kai Leng is detected as Indoctrinated presence.

Protheans failed because of indoctrinated agents, even with those VIs.

The Prothean VI says "Protocols Overridden" when EDI is with you at Tim's base.

Conclusion:

The Prothean VI can only detect individuals using reaper tech."

What about this as a thought, just because someone does the bidding of a reaper it doesn't automatically mean they are indoctrinated. That hanar in the citadel -  Shep accusses him as being indoctrinated but I think it's logical and would probably make similar decisions in his position.

As for the Protean VI, perhaps it can only detect full and active indoctrination and not partial or sleeper agents. If it could it would never have been fooled in the first place.

It's also a possibility. And yes, about the hanar thing, they think the Protheans (the enkindlers) are gods, and that hanar found out that the collectors were protheans, so the only reason for Shepard to think he's indoctrinated is because is doing something to help the reapers.

Modifié par Erethrian, 22 mars 2012 - 12:06 .

[Turbotanden]

One possibly is that the VI detects a Reaper signal that is influencing Kai Leng. Shepard is not the victim of such a signal at that point in time. Anyway we have reason to believe indoctrinated agents were not being detected earlier, and Shepard is nowhere near fully indoctrinated yet.

[Erethrian]

Turbotanden wrote...

One possibly is that the VI detects a Reaper signal that is influencing Kai Leng. Shepard is not the victim of such a signal at that point in time. Anyway we have reason to believe indoctrinated agents were not being detected earlier, and Shepard is nowhere near fully indoctrinated yet.

Yep, but, about the signal. Then, when the Prothean VI says "Security Protocols Overridden" at Tim's base, it's because of EDI's body or because of the crucible has been built and made "functional"?

Modifié par Erethrian, 22 mars 2012 - 12:25 .

[Stigweird85]

Erethrian wrote...

Turbotanden wrote...

One possibly is that the VI detects a Reaper signal that is influencing Kai Leng. Shepard is not the victim of such a signal at that point in time. Anyway we have reason to believe indoctrinated agents were not being detected earlier, and Shepard is nowhere near fully indoctrinated yet.

Yep, but, about the signal. The when the Prothean VI says "Security Protocols Overridden" at Tim's base, it's because of EDI's body or because of the crucible has been built and made "functional"?

I though it said that as it had been hacked/modded so tha TIM could decrypt it. In this state a reaper could walk up to it and use it

[Rifneno]

bigstig wrote...

What about this as a thought, just because someone does the bidding of a reaper it doesn't automatically mean they are indoctrinated. That hanar in the citadel -  Shep accusses him as being indoctrinated but I think it's logical and would probably make similar decisions in his position.

As for the Protean VI, perhaps it can only detect full and active indoctrination and not partial or sleeper agents. If it could it would never have been fooled in the first place.

What.  No.  It is not being logical.  It's shutting down its own homeworld's defenses so the Reapers can more easily kill everyone after it was exposed to part of the Leviathan of Dis (confirmed in ME3 to be another derelict Reaper).  Yeah, I'd say it's indoctrinated and not thinking on its own.

Edit:  It's amazing how well a missed "not" can mess up a sentence.

Erethrian wrote...

Turbotanden wrote...

One possibly is that the VI detects a Reaper signal that is influencing Kai Leng. Shepard is not the victim of such a signal at that point in time. Anyway we have reason to believe indoctrinated agents were not being detected earlier, and Shepard is nowhere near fully indoctrinated yet.

Yep, but, about the signal. The when the Prothean VI says "Security Protocols Overridden" at Tim's base, it's because of EDI's body or because of the crucible has been built and made "functional"?

(cut and paste, I'm lazy)
While I'm a firm believer in IT, I have to say I don't think the Prothean VIs are recognizing Shepard as indoctrinated. On Thessia it turns aorund and looks directly at Kai Leng when it says that it detected an indoctrinated presence. If it matters, I had the collec--er, Javik along for the ride. At TIM's base, it says security protocols have been hacked because, if you question it about why it didn't just tell you in the first place that the Citadel was the catalyst, that it's programmed not to reveal that information until the crucible is complete. It's worried the Reapers would find out if people knew and take measures to protect the Citadel. Like they wound up doing. So the security override was about it revealing information it's not supposed to (the crucible IS finished but it has no way of knowing that) rather than because it's talking to a sleeper cell.

Modifié par Rifneno, 22 mars 2012 - 12:26 .

[ChannelDelibird]

Sandra Diaz ‏ @SundraHP
@masseffect PLEASE tell me that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated. Dont alter the ending if you dont want to. Just dont break my heart

Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect
@sundrahp Thanks for feedback! Any future additional content will maintain & enhance the artistic integrity of the game http://ow.ly/9Oh2Q

Ugh.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

artistic integrity, new most hated expression for me.

[Erethrian]

Rifneno wrote...

Erethrian wrote...
...

(cut and paste, I'm lazy)
While I'm a firm believer in IT, I have to say I don't think the Prothean VIs are recognizing Shepard as indoctrinated. On Thessia it turns aorund and looks directly at Kai Leng when it says that it detected an indoctrinated presence. If it matters, I had the collec--er, Javik along for the ride. At TIM's base, it says security protocols have been hacked because, if you question it about why it didn't just tell you in the first place that the Citadel was the catalyst, that it's programmed not to reveal that information until the crucible is complete. It's worried the Reapers would find out if people knew and take measures to protect the Citadel. Like they wound up doing. So the security override was about it revealing information it's not supposed to (the crucible IS finished but it has no way of knowing that) rather than because it's talking to a sleeper cell.

That's why the first thing I said was:

"I'm sure it wasn't that. Here some facts-

Kai Leng is detected as Indoctrinated presence.

Protheans failed because of indoctrinated agents, even with those VIs.

The Prothean VI says "Protocols Overridden" when EDI is with you at Tim's base.

Conclusion:

The Prothean VI can only detect individuals using reaper tech."


EDIT: If it was just because the crucible was ready, the VI must've said "Protocols've changed" Or "Protocols overrridden". But the "Security" word... IT means something. But well, maybe not.

Modifié par Erethrian, 22 mars 2012 - 12:35 .

[Vahilor]

I don't think Shep is indoctrinated at Thessia, the Reapers TRY to indoctrinate him and the indoctrination try gets his peak after Shep is hit by Harbingers beam and the nearly succed/succed at the end deepending on the choice you make.

Modifié par Vahilor, 22 mars 2012 - 12:30 .

[Stigweird85]

Rifneno wrote...

bigstig wrote...

What about this as a thought, just because someone does the bidding of a reaper it doesn't automatically mean they are indoctrinated. That hanar in the citadel -  Shep accusses him as being indoctrinated but I think it's logical and would probably make similar decisions in his position.

As for the Protean VI, perhaps it can only detect full and active indoctrination and not partial or sleeper agents. If it could it would never have been fooled in the first place.

What.  No.  It is not being logical.  It's shutting down its own homeworld's defenses so the Reapers can more easily kill everyone after it was exposed to part of the Leviathan of Dis (confirmed in ME3 to be another derelict Reaper).  Yeah, I'd say it's indoctrinated and not thinking on its own.



Edit:  It's amazing how well a missed "not" can mess up a sentence.

Erethrian wrote...

Turbotanden wrote...

One possibly is that the VI detects a Reaper signal that is influencing Kai Leng. Shepard is not the victim of such a signal at that point in time. Anyway we have reason to believe indoctrinated agents were not being detected earlier, and Shepard is nowhere near fully indoctrinated yet.

Yep, but, about the signal. The when the Prothean VI says "Security Protocols Overridden" at Tim's base, it's because of EDI's body or because of the crucible has been built and made "functional"?

(cut and paste, I'm lazy)
While I'm a firm believer in IT, I have to say I don't think the Prothean VIs are recognizing Shepard as indoctrinated. On Thessia it turns aorund and looks directly at Kai Leng when it says that it detected an indoctrinated presence. If it matters, I had the collec--er, Javik along for the ride. At TIM's base, it says security protocols have been hacked because, if you question it about why it didn't just tell you in the first place that the Citadel was the catalyst, that it's programmed not to reveal that information until the crucible is complete. It's worried the Reapers would find out if people knew and take measures to protect the Citadel. Like they wound up doing. So the security override was about it revealing information it's not supposed to (the crucible IS finished but it has no way of knowing that) rather than because it's talking to a sleeper cell.

It's shutting down the planets defence so that his kin can be with their God,  I missed the Leviathan of Dis part but I still stand by my point that not everyone who does the reapers bidding has to be indoctrinated.

[Gernbuster]

ChannelDelibird wrote...

Sandra Diaz ‏ @SundraHP
@masseffect PLEASE tell me that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated. Dont alter the ending if you dont want to. Just dont break my heart

Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect
@sundrahp Thanks for feedback! Any future additional content will maintain & enhance the artistic integrity of the game http://ow.ly/9Oh2Q

Ugh.

If it was originally the plan and indoctrination theorie is right, it will maintain artistic integrity

[Erethrian]

Gernbuster wrote...

ChannelDelibird wrote...

Sandra Diaz ‏ @SundraHP
@masseffect PLEASE tell me that Shepard is NOT indoctrinated. Dont alter the ending if you dont want to. Just dont break my heart

Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect
@sundrahp Thanks for feedback! Any future additional content will maintain & enhance the artistic integrity of the game http://ow.ly/9Oh2Q

Ugh.

If it was originally the plan and indoctrination theorie is right, it will maintain artistic integrity

Indeed, and it'll fit completely with the ME "lore".

[Kazalord2]

Guys, I read a post in the last 100 pages that , apparently, if you downloaded the Mass Effect Datapad for iOS and beat the game with " Destruction " you actually get a mail from Ashley/Kaiden on it where he/she asks whethe they can come visit you !!

[Erethrian]

Kazalord2 wrote...

Guys, I read a post in the last 100 pages that , apparently, if you downloaded the Mass Effect Datapad for iOS and beat the game with " Destruction " you actually get a mail from Ashley/Kaiden on it where he/she asks whethe they can come visit you !!

Yeah, well, it's a strange mail but not all of us got the mail. Even with them being LI, so Idk what to say about that.

[Vahilor]

Erethrian wrote...

Kazalord2 wrote...

Guys, I read a post in the last 100 pages that , apparently, if you downloaded the Mass Effect Datapad for iOS and beat the game with " Destruction " you actually get a mail from Ashley/Kaiden on it where he/she asks whethe they can come visit you !!

Yeah, well, it's a strange mail but not all of us got the mail. Even with them being LI, so Idk what to say about that.

Yep I didn't get that mail either... and I also had destruction and the "survive" ending..

[Pascal219]

Erethrian wrote...

Kazalord2 wrote...

Guys, I read a post in the last 100 pages that , apparently, if you downloaded the Mass Effect Datapad for iOS and beat the game with " Destruction " you actually get a mail from Ashley/Kaiden on it where he/she asks whethe they can come visit you !!

Yeah, well, it's a strange mail but not all of us got the mail. Even with them being LI, so Idk what to say about that.

Same here. Completed another playthrough yesterday and didn't receive the mail from Ashley. 

[trekker1701]

I'm not entirely convinced of indoctrination theory. I won't reiterate a lot of the reasons of why people don't think indoctrination theory. I want to bring up one thing though, one thing that people bring up is the events of Arrival. My question is, what if you didn't play Arrival? The story adapts itself to what your particular Shepard has gone through. LoTSB was brought up, if you didn't play it, Liara talks about how she did it by herself and I guess Ferron died. Same kind of thing with Arrival, the Batarian talks about how the Alliance blew up the relay, not Shepard personally. So how does that affect the theory?

[Cullen999]

 If this turns out to be true then everyone moaning about the endings better post a massive apology to bioware and it's scriptwriters and developers. This idea (if intended) is a work of genius and I hope whoever came up with it is well rewarded. I hope if this was bioware's idea that they are not scared off by the fans reaction and continue with this path. Indoctrinating your player base , politicians the world over pay attention you might learn something here.

[BaKaNoOB]

Modifié par BaKaNoOB, 22 mars 2012 - 01:34 .

[Gernbuster]

trekker1701 wrote...

I'm not entirely convinced of indoctrination theory. I won't reiterate a lot of the reasons of why people don't think indoctrination theory. I want to bring up one thing though, one thing that people bring up is the events of Arrival. My question is, what if you didn't play Arrival? The story adapts itself to what your particular Shepard has gone through. LoTSB was brought up, if you didn't play it, Liara talks about how she did it by herself and I guess Ferron died. Same kind of thing with Arrival, the Batarian talks about how the Alliance blew up the relay, not Shepard personally. So how does that affect the theory?

Shep met Souvereign in ME1.
Shep is INSIDE a Reaper in ME2 and my personal new theory, when Cerberus resurected him they did it by using reaper tech. Don t forget TIM got them as well and as we see in ME3 reaper modification is definitly used by Cerberus, so why not already in ME2.

Shep got definitly enough contact to develop some kind of indoctrination, Arrival was just the strongest.

[Erethrian]

trekker1701 wrote...

I'm not entirely convinced of indoctrination theory. I won't reiterate a lot of the reasons of why people don't think indoctrination theory. I want to bring up one thing though, one thing that people bring up is the events of Arrival. My question is, what if you didn't play Arrival? The story adapts itself to what your particular Shepard has gone through. LoTSB was brought up, if you didn't play it, Liara talks about how she did it by herself and I guess Ferron died. Same kind of thing with Arrival, the Batarian talks about how the Alliance blew up the relay, not Shepard personally. So how does that affect the theory?

You're right. In fact that's why I think that even if you did arrival Shepard has not reaper tech. (Well, maybe implanted by cerberus in the Lazarus project, but I doubt it).

So how does that affect this theory? In no way, at least this is what I think, the theory doesn't need Object Rho to "prove" that Shepard could've been fighting indoctrination. He's been inside a reaper, he's recovered reaper tech, he is in front of the (believed) oldest of the reapers, almost taking a direct shot from it. The theory doesn't need the events of Arrival.

Modifié par Erethrian, 22 mars 2012 - 01:01 .