57139 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRevanchist]

Welp...one more reason to hate the ending we've got...

[Galadh]

noobcannon wrote...
if any of this is true, and i believe 100% now that it is, then they have already done all the voice recording/acting. everything is ready to go. we just have to dl / buy it.

Surely, I know, I meant... Does it mean the whole cast is in some kind of conspiracy? 

[Sauronych]

Even if miraculously there is a free DLC with an alternative ending in the works, don't you guys think it would be the biggest dick move in the history of video games? Selling a 60$ game to people promising a satisfying conclusion to an epic trilogy only to tell them 30 hours later "to be continued soon™". I mean, imagine the ****storm this would cause.

[Pyewacket]

Doctor Quinn wrote...

Perhaps Bioware wanted us to imagine our own ending.

I sincerely hope that's not the case.  I didn't pay Bioware money so I could make up my own ending to a series I've been playing for 5 years.  I'm not into fanfiction.

[hismastersvoice]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

I don't know why they can't just release some kind of statement, ANY statement. I get that they're trying to do this strategically (if they are even doing anything about it), but 1 little post by a developer that says: "We know what's going on, give us some time" or "Sorry, but this is the ending. Here is some more clarification." or some crap. SOMETHING.

If the ending is a hallucination or a DLC plant, then there will be no statement from Bioware. Instead, marketing dept will give the go on when the follow up DLC info can be released to the public, which might be soon or might not happen for 6 months.

In essense, the less communication from Bioware on the issue, the more likley we haven't seen the actual ending of the game.

[humes spork]

I thought of something and I want to go back to the "Eva is Reaper tech" thing from a few...dozen...pages back.

During the conversation with Eva on Purgatory's dance floor, EDI mentions Eva is heavily bio-mechanical, particularly in that bit where EDI discusses Eva's capability to mimic human physiology right down to emulating individual strands of hair. The only race in the Mass Effect universe demonstrated to have remotely near that level of expertise with bio-mechanics are the Reapers themselves, especially in context that Eva is dramatically faster and more agile than any other mech seen in the entire trilogy -- the only other synthetics that come remotely close in speed and agility are Geth hoppers.

[heretica]

Sauronych wrote...

While the dream theory makes a lot of sense... Intentionally releasing a game without a proper ending, or even worse, selling the ending separately as a DLC? Even for EA that seems like too much. The only way this could possibly be considered as acceptable is if the hypothetical DLC was free, and we know that won't happen.

Yeah, it seems too much. But I was speaking with my mother today, she has no idea of games or anything, and she told me "why not? it's money... you never know how many millions they'd earn". I am a bit confused, hoping for the best and feeling a bit delusional at the same time.

[mupp3tz]

Let's pretend that we're on to something. The better way for them to have executed this is by doing everything just as they had... AND then, after you've been kicked in the gut, to suddenly do the breathing scene and Shepard waking up to finish the fight, followed by a proper ending. That would have been beautiful and one of the best twists I can think of.

[Yuzna75]

Galadh wrote...

I know we've beaten the odds before, but getting there... I don't know, gang.

Yesterday
I dismissed it prematurely, thinking someone is desperately attempting
to rationalize the situation. Today I actually gave it a thought and now
I see eye to eye with you. I mean, yeah. It does make perfect sense.
Shepard breathing without armor during final conversation, falling from
the orbit to survive and so on undoubtedly feel off. Waking up, not
losing mind. Heck, regardless of what lies ahead of us I am glad we've
reached such plausible conclusion.

It would be marvellous if the
miracle would happen next week. Issue I've here is how anti-climax and
emotionally manipulative that whole thing would be. And what's then?
Another hour or two of struggling? What about music and voice actors? Is
this some kind of conspiracy?

"Seriously, if you people knew all
the stuff we are planning...you'd, we'll - hold onto your copy of me3
forever" – now, in the context of our theory... Gives me hope.

Anyway, I still believe we can win this, one way or another.

I have very little faith in statements like that from the game companies. They always promise the sky and deliver a handful dirt. Molyneux started all this and many followed suite. So far with ME 3 bioware has not delivered. Sure the game was as good as the previous one but the ending so far kinda ruined the total experience.

[Pyewacket]

@ Doctor Quinn

And of course after reading further, "OIC WHAT YOU DID THERE!" Sorry for jumping the gun.

Also, Lol.

[LeVaughnX]

Rheinlandman wrote...

LeVaughnX wrote...

2.) I destroyed the Reapers - my Shepard woke up from the destruction of the Reapers in the broken down Citidel which crashed back on Earth (so I believe).

Which is the one of the biggest inconsistencies (and more compelling arguments for the hallucination/mind fight) with the ending.  Shepard was at the epicenter of the blast without a helmet and a suit falling apart.  And suddenly s/he wakes up in a pile of concrete rubble.

You forgot to mention that Shepard somehow came back from the dead after falling to a planet with a suit "on" - and that the helmet kept his brain intact.

Also - poor joker now lives without EDI...no matter what...how stupid..

And people are saying that your two squadmates that you took along are dead?...My Liara / Garrus didn't die...I saw them at the end of the game >_>....what the hell?

[Sanjuronord]

I also thought it was a hallucination at first, but then the credits rolled... and all hope disappeared.

[Corephyfish]

ShdwFox7 wrote...

Got a supporting theory to add: Is anybody else surprised by the fact that their isn't a last boss? Think about it, how many other games don't throw a last boss at you in the end? Including the Mass Effect series themselves. Heck, when I encountered the Illusive Man for the final time, and caused him to commit suicide, I thought for sure the alternate choice would have been a boss fight. Similar to ME1's final encounter with Saren on the citadel. And bare in mind, even if you do pass that dialogue check, you still fight a reaper form of him. But that's just not the case, TIM dies either way through dialogue; not gameplay. And while Kai Leng is considered a boss, he's met before you even land on the final stage of the game (earth). So he hardly counts in my opinion. The only thing that could be remotely considered a last boss fight in my mind is the fight with the various minor reaper minion waves as you guard the terminal that fires the missiles. And even that might be stretching it. But most importantly where I'm going with this is I would like to believe that if a ending-based DLC were released; it would probably include a last boss of some sort. Perhaps a transformed version of the catalyst child.

I read in the Collectors Edition Prima guide that the Illusive man was originally intended to be an end boss and they were going to transform him into a husk/reaper thing of some sort but then decided against it, so there you go.

[Arturia Pendragon]

kylecouch wrote...

Welp...one more reason to hate the ending we've got...

Good lord, the tears, they won't stop.

[tuzem2]

slydfoxxy wrote...

ShdwFox7 wrote...

Got a supporting theory to add: Is anybody else surprised by the fact that their isn't a last boss? Think about it, how many other games don't throw a last boss at you in the end? Including the Mass Effect series themselves. Heck, when I encountered the Illusive Man for the final time, and caused him to commit suicide, I thought for sure the alternate choice would have been a boss fight. Similar to ME1's final encounter with Saren on the citadel. And bare in mind, even if you do pass that dialogue check, you still fight a reaper form of him. But that's just not the case, TIM dies either way through dialogue; not gameplay. And while Kai Leng is considered a boss, he's met before you even land on the final stage of the game (earth). So he hardly counts in my opinion. The only thing that could be remotely considered a last boss fight in my mind is the fight with the various minor reaper minion waves as you guard the terminal that fires the missiles. And even that might be stretching it. But most importantly where I'm going with this is I would like to believe that if a ending-based DLC were released; it would probably include a last boss of some sort. Perhaps a transformed version of the catalyst child.

I read in the Collectors Edition Prima guide that the Illusive man was originally intended to be an end boss and they were going to transform him into a husk/reaper thing of some sort but then decided against it, so there you go.

I read that too but in the N7 Collector's Edition book thingie... good point! My hope-o-meter is going up

Modifié par tuzem2, 11 mars 2012 - 04:07 .

[Lord Nikon 001]

So what happens to those people who don't have the ability to download DLC? If another ending is planned or given this way A LOT of customers will be even further screwed...

[tuzem2]

Lord Nikon 001 wrote...

So what happens to those people who don't have the ability to download DLC? If another ending is planned or given this way A LOT of customers will be even further screwed...

Yeah- I'll feel bad for you, but at least some of will get it ,)

[jspiess]

What if there is some button sequence (code) that they give us eventually that unlocks the rest of the ending? Would be away of getting around dlc and pissing off a lot more people. Could be why they are waiting until everyone has it to make a statement.

[humes spork]

Lord Nikon 001 wrote...

So what happens to those people who don't have the ability to download DLC?

The same thing that happens to people like myself who still play in standard def -- a giant honkin' middle finger from EA.

[Miss Vader]

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Welp...one more reason to hate the ending we've got...

Good lord, the tears, they won't stop.

Why wasn't this in the game? why??

[TheRevanchist]

Miss Vader wrote...

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Welp...one more reason to hate the ending we've got...

Good lord, the tears, they won't stop.

Why wasn't this in the game? why??

Thats another question that needs to be answered....

[noobcannon]

Galadh wrote...

noobcannon wrote...
if any of this is true, and i believe 100% now that it is, then they have already done all the voice recording/acting. everything is ready to go. we just have to dl / buy it.

Surely, I know, I meant... Does it mean the whole cast is in some kind of conspiracy? 

i think just sworn to secrecy. contractual agreement and what not. we might not hear anything official until pax on apr. 6. i think at that point they'll have to give us something. could get ugly if they don't.

[lookingglassmind]

In defense of the Hallucination/Indoctrination theory: the BioWare/Player Indoctrination Theory

With the assistance of my peers throughout the rest of this thread, I have collated a series of facts that I would like to present to the community as being evidence for a a priori intention for the endings of ME3. Some of this information will not be new to a lot of you, and it may seem downright strange to a lot of you. It does require a strong and disorienting amount of suspension of disbelief, so if you cannot engage in this type of thought process, I encourage you to skip over this post. It will hurt your brain. Or make you think that I'm crazy. Likely both. (I'm okay with either.)

With the assistance of countless others' highly important observations in this thread, I sumbit to you that possibility the endings of ME3 represent the highest form of the metagaming experience. The highest form of BioWare's "giving the player choice that matters, from ME1 to ME3". The highest form of player interaction that we have yet seen from a video game. This has never before been attempted by a company, and it represents the ballsiest dedication to story and lore that may exist.

I believe that the endings may be indicative of BioWare attempting to allow the player the real-time experience of what indoctrination would be like. This theory explains (in a highly weird, impossible, and completely insane way) all of the missing pieces in the hallucination sequence, and also explains BioWare's real-world actions (such as complete silence since the fan sh*tstorm broke in response to the endings).

If you have not been keeping up with the thread, or if you have not read Byne's/Kitten Tactics/Turtlicious' amalgamation of all of the evidence we have accumulated for the originial hallucination theory on page 1, then I would urge you to do so before you read any more of this post. Due to time constraints, I won't be posting all of the evidences that we have located in this post to confirm or contradict this theory: I leave it in your capable and self-aware hands to attain this information yourself. I am posting this as an add-on to page 1, as I don't think it was properly represented there in its entire grand scope.

So, to the meat of the issue:

We have already established as much evidence as we can that 'proves' that Shepard is either hallucinating/dreaming just prior to/immediately after he runs into Harbinger's beam/Conduit. The hallucination/dream sequence has been quite well fleshed out, with a lot of compelling environmental evidence to support it (again, please see page 1 for further analysis). I am going to use this particular vehicle of suspension of disbelief to propose that BioWare's intention during this sequence is to flag the player with as many markers as they can: This current reality playing before your eyes (the Citadel, the Catalyst, TIM, Anderson) is a reflection of Shepard. It is the product of his/her mind. The meeting with the Catalyst may or may not be rooted in reality; they may meet in some metalphysical dimension, or Shepard may just hallucinate the entire thing. Either way, this theory would argue that it essentially doesn't matter, because what truly matters is the role of the player in this sequence. Your role. The scene is set in a way that urges the player to become aware of things just not being right, of being a place that mirrors (literally) Shepard's experiences throughout the game. The reality presented on the Citadel is an amalgamation of archetypes of every thing Shepard has seen in the series, which this theory challenges the player to understand as being a direct prompt from BioWare to understand that what is truly happening during this scene is all within Shepard's mind. His/her reality. Under her/his control.

Understanding that the reality on the Citadel as being a cerebral concoction that is entirely of Shepard's creation is important when we arrive upon the Crucible. It becomes a vital understanding when we are faced with these three, seemingly bizarre and unexpected choices that the Catalyst gives us. This theory submits that BioWare is asking the player to actively question EVERYTHING that happens once Shepard runs into Harbinger's beam. The cost of not questioning, or making the right choice even if you do?

Real-time player indoctrination. Shepard's literal death.

Think about it carefully. We arrive on the Crucible, and are faced with an archetype of manipulation, the Catalyst. Taking the form of a child that has come to represent everything that is horrendous about the Reapers to Shepard, the Catalyst/Harbinger provides Shepard with three strange and disorienting choices. He first presents Shepard with the option of Destroy, making swift and empty assertations about how it is the wrong choice because it would kill all synthetic life and Shepard herself/himself. At its surface, this seems like the renegade/chaos option, and is even insidiously portrayed in Renegade Red, a direct nod to the Player himself/herself. Directly appealing to your experiences with how the game works. He then goes on at great length about the Control and Synthesis options, portraying Control as the blue paragon/order option. Again, directly appealing to the Player. He argues that Control is the best option, implies that Shepard is the new Catalyst, and leaves us to contemplate the possibility that we could use it to try and save the people we love; after all, we are Shepard, and we would never become like TIM. Synthesis is the last option explored, and it is portrayed as a compromise or as being the Brave New Hope for the galaxy. I have a suspicion that Synthesis may actually  be the 'perfect' choice, but that is for another theory. (If you're curious, read about the tech-singularity lore within the game, and research humes spork's posts about the singularity within this thread.) Either way, Synthesis smacks of strangeness because it seems so inherently Reaper-oriented. As though it were servicing the Reapers' philosophy more strongly than the other two options.

This moment, when you are standing there, agonizing over your choice? This is your indoctrination moment. This is where, it could be (fantastically and insanely) argued that this is the moment when indoctrination and all of its insidious power becomes as real as it possibly CAN be to the Player. Think about it! We stand there. We agonize. We freak out about the ridiculous choices, and we wonder (like Shepard would) why we just can't ARUGE with the Catalyst (like Shepard would). And then, as this reality seems to be the only way forward (much like how indoctrination presents a version of reality to the indoctrinated that he/she sees as being the ONLY REAL OPTION -- echoes of TIM, Kai Leng, Saren here), we begin to accept it. Tremulously, we start to make our choice.

If you choose Control, then you, the player -- the one who moves through the game though Shepard's eyes; every choice s/he has ever made in the game has been directly because of you -- have been indoctrinated. It may have been because you thought you could save your crew, your LI, or that you really could gain perfect Control over the Reapers because you are Shepard. Regardless, you have been duped. Indoctrinated by the game. Your slow exposure to the Reapers in 2007 culminates to this final choice -- complete and free player agency and determination.

If you choose Synthesis, you face a fate similar to that of Control. It's debatable to me at this point as to whether or not you have chosen to fulfill the Reapers' purpose, but indoctrination is still a heavy possibility with this one. The only reason that I state this with any certainty is because, like the ending we see with Control, Shepard is dead at the final credits.

If you choose Destroy, then the Player Indoctrination Theory submits that this is you, the player, deciding whether or not Shepard overcomes the indoctrination attempt being rained upon him/her by Harbinger/the Catalyst. If you decide this option, and if you have enough EMS to ensure that Shepard has enough real-world time to get through the indoctrination attempt/hallucination -- Shepard lives. We see him/her breathing in the rubble of London streets at the end of the game. Shepard has defied indoctrination. You, yourself, have defied indoctrination.

Does this theory make sense? Maybe not. When we consider BioWare's real-world motivations and risks (profit, losing a large fanbase over the disgusting wretchedness of the endings as they currently exist), then the theory is hard to support. But if, for just one moment, we can let ourselves believe that BioWare may just have lived up to their celebrated philiosophy of Player Choice and Player Acutalization, then this theory becomes awe-inspiring. Is it possible? Could BioWare have sacrificed the potential for safe profits in order to bring the most insane and beautiful gaming experience of all time to its fans? The most unprecedented example of player immersion of our times? Would BioWare have truly allowed the risk for profit and angering a serious amount of their fan population in pure deference to the story, and its lore?

It may explain BioWare's silence on the matter, until "more people have played the game", or until all regions have the game. It may explain Jess M.'s twitter about fans "reacting before having all of the facts". It may.... just may explain these super sh*tty endings in a way that would make BioWare the God of RPGs.

Is it likely? No. Am I reaching, insanely? Yes.

But is it possible?

Yes.

[Golferguy758]

Lord Nikon 001 wrote...

So what happens to those people who don't have the ability to download DLC? If another ending is planned or given this way A LOT of customers will be even further screwed...

Then you wouldn't be able to get new endings if they added them anyways?

Honestly, this is a pretty brilliant strategy if it is how it actually is

[tuzem2]

Miss Vader wrote...

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Welp...one more reason to hate the ending we've got...

Good lord, the tears, they won't stop.

Why wasn't this in the game? why??

 I think it is, but maybe you get if you don't have a LI?