57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Redbelle]

Flapperrr wrote...

I will give my dialog with one supporter of control on other resource.
"... me to put to the place of Shepard at all does not cost - I and the first part did not endure. Therefore my personal judgement has very doubtful weight here."...

My response:
"And here it is already very interesting. If to speak about physics, yes, for the such special trainings, years or decades in army etc. are necessary.
But the moral choice is done by the player and in personal judgement about that occurs in ME. I make a choice on the basis of the personal judgement if you read, what your personal judgement is doubtful, there is a question who controls your character, and respectively and you? Here it also is a befuddling - loss of the personality and it is healthy that BioWare could turn such with players, in the most evident form. And still is frightens, the fact of that such it is possible and so easy."

The person doubts the personal judgement, in fact - refuses him. Here a bright example of a befuddling not in game, and in life.

Being befuddled in a game by a game is very rare. I love the idea that the ending involves the Reapers seizing control of your perceptions and making paragon choices seem like renegade and vice versa. All the times I've fought Indoctrinated characters I never stopped to consider why they do the things they do while under indoctrination. The ending of ME3 could give the answer to this question in a move that breaks the forth wall, without really breaking the forth wall.

Modifié par Redbelle, 22 mars 2012 - 03:23 .

[Gernbuster]

Redbelle wrote...

EMS ratings seemed pretty important at the time but after getting to the end on first play through the need for high EMS just seemed pointless. I can't see how effective military strength translates into Earth survives when the catalyst beam is engaged.

Also, maybe it was my imagination but for one destroy scene I thought I saw the beam/pulse destroy allied ships above Earth. They could have been destroyed hulks I guess but the idea of collecting so many ships in EMS and then running them into a scenario that ends with those ships being blown up is a little self defeating...... (there's an understatement). Can anyone confirm?

Sure ^^ Taking red one means destroying all technologie in the universe: Every single ship explodes or shut down, in my oppinion all Quarians will die, Suits are not working anymore, and yes they still need them to survive!
All Geth, Edi etc die. Every Colonie on an not perfekt earth fitting world will die. Cities get wipped out because of no food....basicly 99% of life gets killed. -.- MY opinion

[HunterKYA]

Denvian wrote...

 

Redbelle wrote...

Hey folks.

Fox news has reported that Bioware hinted at a potential 16 different endings.

Now that would have been more like it

 



Endings Spoilers:

Collector's Base Destroyed

0 to 1,749 EMS: Your only choice is to destroy the Reapers. Earth is destroyed.

1,750 to 1,899 EMS: Shepard can choose to destroy the Reapers, or control them. If you destroy the Reapers, Earth is destroyed in the process as well. If you control the Reapers, Earth is devastated but not destroyed.

1,900 to 2,349 EMS: Shepard can choose between destroying and controlling Reapers. Both choices save earth, and humanity survives, however Earth's buildings still get vaporized.

2,350 to 2,649 EMS: Shepard can control Reapers, and save Earth

2,650 to 2,799 EMS: Shepard can destroy Reapers, and save Earth. Shepard Dies.

2,800 to 3,999 EMS: Shepard is able to create a link between Synthetics and Organics, and Earth and the Galaxy are saved

4,000 to 4,999 EMS: You can destroy the Reapers and Earth is saved. If you shot TIM on time and saved Anderson, Shepard breathes (Survives).

5,000+ EMS: You can destroy all Reapers. Earth saved as well. Shepard will breath, whether you attempted to save Anderson or not. (Perfect Ending)

Collector's Base Remained Intact

0 to 1,749 EMS: Shepard's only choice is to destroy the Reapers. Earth is destroyed.

1,750 to 2,049 EMS: Shepard can control the Reapers or destroy them. Destroying the Reapers also destroys Earth. Controlling the Reapers damages earth but does not destroy it.

2050 to 2,349 EMS: Shepard has choice between controlling and destroying Reapers. You save Earth from destruction either way, and humans live, but Earth is still devastated and buildings vaporized.

2,350 to 2,649 EMS: Shepard can destroy the Reapers. Earth is badly damaged but isn't destroyed completely

2,650 to 2,799 EMS: Shepard can destroy the Reapers and save Earth.

2,800 to 3,999 EMS: Shepard can create the Synergy between Organics and Reapers to save Earth and the Galaxy

4,000 to 4,999 EMS: Shepard can destroy Reapers. Earth survives. If you shot The Illusive Man on time and saved Anderson, Shepard Survived.

5,000 + EMS: Shepard can destroy Reapers. Earth survives. Shepard also survives regardless if you tried to save Anderson or not. (Perfect Ending)


Well that is 16 isn't it?

When we all heard of 16 different endings, we were probably thinking of 16 distinct endings that varied from each other to some degree from our choices throughout each game.  This list feels more like 16 different possibilities that affect the three endings that Bioware gave us.

[ZajoE38]

I've been wondering... when we say that Shep's indoctrination started after he stands up from being hit by the laser. He isn't dreaming, it is not an illusion. He could be really there, but moments later. Yeah he can see the trees and bushes from the dream. But they are just hallucinations just a was the kid in the Vancouver. Shepard stands there exactly as he stood on the dock of the Normandy after he part with Anderson in the begining. Anderson could have got to the Citadel before him. And since we know that TIM was already there, he could just popped from somewhere. So even the Citadel confrontation with Shep/Anderson/TIM could be real. Damn, but what about the bullet wound? Shepard had it just where he shot Anderson. May be a coincidence, just a wound from the battle. Damn where is 6th April?

[Flapperrr]

Gernbuster wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

EMS ratings seemed pretty important at the time but after getting to the end on first play through the need for high EMS just seemed pointless. I can't see how effective military strength translates into Earth survives when the catalyst beam is engaged.

Also, maybe it was my imagination but for one destroy scene I thought I saw the beam/pulse destroy allied ships above Earth. They could have been destroyed hulks I guess but the idea of collecting so many ships in EMS and then running them into a scenario that ends with those ships being blown up is a little self defeating...... (there's an understatement). Can anyone confirm?

Sure ^^ Taking red one means destroying all technologie in the universe: Every single ship explodes or shut down, in my oppinion all Quarians will die, Suits are not working anymore, and yes they still need them to survive!
All Geth, Edi etc die. Every Colonie on an not perfekt earth fitting world will die. Cities get wipped out because of no food....basicly 99% of life gets killed. -.- MY opinion

Fine
And who told, what there everything is really destroyed and what all this 100 % really?

[aslivewire]

Erethrian wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

ZajoE38 wrote...

The Thesia VI could be a plothole. Guys from BW surely was under deadline pressure and made a mistake. Or as I say. Those implants could be dormant.

mhhhh, he recognizes preaper pressence. He is able to recognize indoctrinated people.
Possiblity one, Shep isn t indoctrinated enough and he can t detect Sheps Reapertech because it is everywhere on the planet at the time, or plottwhole ...

Any thoughts about this? ^^

"I'm sure it wasn't that. Here some facts-

Kai Leng is detected as Indoctrinated presence.

Protheans failed because of indoctrinated agents, even with those VIs.

The Prothean VI says "Protocols Overridden" when EDI is with you at Tim's base.

Conclusion:

The Prothean VI can only detect individuals using reaper tech."

When I played that mission, I remember being frustrated that you had to bring EDI there. That you were forced to when it didn't feel natural- the venting seemed like a weak justification, because they didn't NEED that part. She really have dialogue options that made a difference with Kai Leng or TIM, in the same way that Liara or Tali are so vitally linked to their missions the whole way through.

I know it's a stretch, but I can't help but think (and yes, this is headcanon, I don't think this was Bioware's intention in regards to the IT) that EDI is there to act as a 'Protocols Overridden' red herring for this scene. That crap is already going down and she's a distraction, writing wise, to Shepard's side of things.

/is being dorky

[Redbelle]

Gernbuster wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

EMS ratings seemed pretty important at the time but after getting to the end on first play through the need for high EMS just seemed pointless. I can't see how effective military strength translates into Earth survives when the catalyst beam is engaged.

Also, maybe it was my imagination but for one destroy scene I thought I saw the beam/pulse destroy allied ships above Earth. They could have been destroyed hulks I guess but the idea of collecting so many ships in EMS and then running them into a scenario that ends with those ships being blown up is a little self defeating...... (there's an understatement). Can anyone confirm?

Sure ^^ Taking red one means destroying all technologie in the universe: Every single ship explodes or shut down, in my oppinion all Quarians will die, Suits are not working anymore, and yes they still need them to survive!
All Geth, Edi etc die. Every Colonie on an not perfekt earth fitting world will die. Cities get wipped out because of no food....basicly 99% of life gets killed. -.- MY opinion

Funnily enough one of my thoughts in choosing the ending was I can't kill Edi. She's part of my crew.

It's different from deciding who to back back for with Ash and Kaiden on Virmire. It feels like chooing the destory option your engaging in genocide of the geth who Tali believes are now alive and killing a member of your crew who feels strongly that your influence helped her become more alive...... at least in my play through thus far.

[IronSabbath88]

Which is why Destroy is seen as such a bad option. That's what you're meant to think.

[Redbelle]

ZajoE38 wrote...

I've been wondering... when we say that Shep's indoctrination started after he stands up from being hit by the laser. He isn't dreaming, it is not an illusion. He could be really there, but moments later. Yeah he can see the trees and bushes from the dream. But they are just hallucinations just a was the kid in the Vancouver. Shepard stands there exactly as he stood on the dock of the Normandy after he part with Anderson in the begining. Anderson could have got to the Citadel before him. And since we know that TIM was already there, he could just popped from somewhere. So even the Citadel confrontation with Shep/Anderson/TIM could be real. Damn, but what about the bullet wound? Shepard had it just where he shot Anderson. May be a coincidence, just a wound from the battle. Damn where is 6th April?

His name was Robert Paulson

Fight club analogy for those wondering who he is.

[Gernbuster]

Flapperrr wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

EMS ratings seemed pretty important at the time but after getting to the end on first play through the need for high EMS just seemed pointless. I can't see how effective military strength translates into Earth survives when the catalyst beam is engaged.

Also, maybe it was my imagination but for one destroy scene I thought I saw the beam/pulse destroy allied ships above Earth. They could have been destroyed hulks I guess but the idea of collecting so many ships in EMS and then running them into a scenario that ends with those ships being blown up is a little self defeating...... (there's an understatement). Can anyone confirm?

Sure ^^ Taking red one means destroying all technologie in the universe: Every single ship explodes or shut down, in my oppinion all Quarians will die, Suits are not working anymore, and yes they still need them to survive!
All Geth, Edi etc die. Every Colonie on an not perfekt earth fitting world will die. Cities get wipped out because of no food....basicly 99% of life gets killed. -.- MY opinion

Fine
And who told, what there everything is really destroyed and what all this 100 % really?

Hey im a fan of the indoctrination theorie ^^
I was just thinking about the possible cosequences.

[7egion]

Just a thought. If Bioware wasn't planning this, how could they possibly release this ending in April? Its like 9 days away. Of course they have the rest of the month, but still.

Modifié par 7egion, 22 mars 2012 - 03:38 .

[Erethrian]

7egion wrote...

Just a thought. If Bioware wasn't planning this, how could they possibly release this ending in April? Its like 9 days away.

Maybe because of PAX. Maybe the surprise us all... With an Expansion Pack! 



And I'd gladly buy it.

[MaroonMoore93]

7egion wrote...

Just a thought. If Bioware wasn't planning this, how could they possibly release this ending in April? Its like 9 days away. Of course they have the rest of the month, but still.

THE PLOT THICKENS!

[nyrocron]

7egion wrote...

Just a thought. If Bioware wasn't planning this, how could they possibly release this ending in April? Its like 9 days away. Of course they have the rest of the month, but still.

They only said they will explain it and make an announcement, this does not mean that the ending DLC has to be ready by then.

Anyways, I do still have hope that it was planned 

Modifié par nyrocron, 22 mars 2012 - 03:43 .

[estebanus]

MaroonMoore93 wrote...

7egion wrote...

Just a thought. If Bioware wasn't planning this, how could they possibly release this ending in April? Its like 9 days away. Of course they have the rest of the month, but still.

THE PLOT THICKENS!

(dramatic music plays in background) DUN DUN DUNNN!!!

Modifié par estebanus, 22 mars 2012 - 03:45 .

[benben84]

nyrocron wrote...

7egion wrote...

Just a thought. If Bioware wasn't planning this, how could they possibly release this ending in April? Its like 9 days away. Of course they have the rest of the month, but still.

They only said they will explain it and make an announcement, this does not mean that the ending DLC has to be ready by then.

Anyways, I do still have hope that it was planned 

Yep, I hope it was planned as well.  "Hey, sorry to ****** everyone off but we have an annoucement to make...."  ME4 trailer opens with Shepard waking up.

[Flapperrr]

Gernbuster wrote...

Flapperrr wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

EMS ratings seemed pretty important at the time but after getting to the end on first play through the need for high EMS just seemed pointless. I can't see how effective military strength translates into Earth survives when the catalyst beam is engaged.

Also, maybe it was my imagination but for one destroy scene I thought I saw the beam/pulse destroy allied ships above Earth. They could have been destroyed hulks I guess but the idea of collecting so many ships in EMS and then running them into a scenario that ends with those ships being blown up is a little self defeating...... (there's an understatement). Can anyone confirm?

Sure ^^ Taking red one means destroying all technologie in the universe: Every single ship explodes or shut down, in my oppinion all Quarians will die, Suits are not working anymore, and yes they still need them to survive!
All Geth, Edi etc die. Every Colonie on an not perfekt earth fitting world will die. Cities get wipped out because of no food....basicly 99% of life gets killed. -.- MY opinion

Fine
And who told, what there everything is really destroyed and what all this 100 % really?

Hey im a fan of the indoctrination theorie ^^
I was just thinking about the possible cosequences.

If we were for synthesis, stopped - to play, when the plot destroyed Saren. If we were for monitoring, stopped - to play when Shep renounced TIM.
We continue to play, implying that we go to destruction. Sharp change of priorities for few minutes, on the basis of mere words of the strange object sets thinking in that, install normally with to whom it occurred.
Please without offenses if it touches someone with something.

[Hobbyman]

It is of course highly possible that they planned this all along. Having an ending to the game that doesn't make sense, leave the players baffled and wondering what really happened and then announce a DLC with the true ending, explaining that it was an indoctrination scene.

What BW didn't account for, probably, is the outrage that this entire situation would produce, which is very bad, because this whole situation reverted from being a nice idea to a serious marketing mistake. Can you imagine the effect that this will have to the people who have returned their ME3 game, to learn that this was just a "clever" ruse to keep people on their toes and guessing?

If that is the case, probably BW is trying to figure a way to make this transition as painlessly as possible for the company.

A good strategy would be (if my theory is true) to come right out and say, "Yes, we planned this all along to create suspense but we see now that it was a bad decision and that we should have implemented the entirety of the game in one edition. We are very sorry for all the inconvenience this has caused, so we decided to present the Finale DLC for free."

[7egion]

The DLC better be free, or else I will buy and enjoy it with anger in my heart.

[Erethrian]

TekMage wrote...

It is of course highly possible that they planned this all along. Having an ending to the game that doesn't make sense, leave the players baffled and wondering what really happened and then announce a DLC with the true ending, explaining that it was an indoctrination scene.

What BW didn't account for, probably, is the outrage that this entire situation would produce, which is very bad, because this whole situation reverted from being a nice idea to a serious marketing mistake. Can you imagine the effect that this will have to the people who have returned their ME3 game, to learn that this was just a "clever" ruse to keep people on their toes and guessing?

If that is the case, probably BW is trying to figure a way to make this transition as painlessly as possible for the company.

A good strategy would be (if my theory is true) to come right out and say, "Yes, we planned this all along to create suspense but we see now that it was a bad decision and that we should have implemented the entirety of the game in one edition. We are very sorry for all the inconvenience this has caused, so we decided to present the Finale DLC for free."

Good point. We'll have to wait until April, though. But even if I'd gladly buy a "continuation" it's true a lot of fans went for a refund and returned their games. And yep, I also think they didn't expect this reactions from the fans, so the PR talk was also (and completely) needed to calm down the outrage.

[RoyalGambit]

TekMage wrote...

It is of course highly possible that they planned this all along. Having an ending to the game that doesn't make sense, leave the players baffled and wondering what really happened and then announce a DLC with the true ending, explaining that it was an indoctrination scene.

What BW didn't account for, probably, is the outrage that this entire situation would produce, which is very bad, because this whole situation reverted from being a nice idea to a serious marketing mistake. Can you imagine the effect that this will have to the people who have returned their ME3 game, to learn that this was just a "clever" ruse to keep people on their toes and guessing?

If that is the case, probably BW is trying to figure a way to make this transition as painlessly as possible for the company.

A good strategy would be (if my theory is true) to come right out and say, "Yes, we planned this all along to create suspense but we see now that it was a bad decision and that we should have implemented the entirety of the game in one edition. We are very sorry for all the inconvenience this has caused, so we decided to present the Finale DLC for free."

Anything else would leave most people pissed. I just hope they're not getting cold feet about the Indoc thing, and decide to change into at hollywood ending. Clarification and closure would be sweet though.

[Ghost of a Messiah]

I have a buddy, who has no internet, finished the game the other day. I have not talked to him about IT beforehand. He calls me on the phone and begins telling me the ending is a LIE. To remain objective I simply asked,"how do you mean?" and he began to site all the specific examples we all know about and even proceeded to use the word "indoctrinated" to describe Shepard at the end of the game. I played the devil's advocate a bit and asked him about the known holes in the theory including the bit about the Prothian VI detecting a indoctrinated presence. He said, "How do you know for sure that he is talking about Shepard?" Then I told him about "Indoctrination Theory".

How can someone, without being influenced by someone who already thinks this is the case, arrive at the exact same conclusion that we all have? There's way too much supporting evidence to ignore this theory. When I asked my friend, "What if indoctrination theory turns out not to be true?" and he said, and I quote, "Then the writers are retarded." not my words but I understand where he's is coming from since I am actually losing faith in the theory...

For me I can't see this series being saved unless IT was true all along because otherwise, they really either thought the game as it is was art or they were lazy. In either case it will be clear to me that me and Bioware will have to part ways. Me and their new "artistic direction" simply cannot and will not co-exist.

[Flapperrr]

[Redbelle]

Yes, BW deprieve me of playing the expansion in a god forbidding rage

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Redbelle wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

EMS ratings seemed pretty important at the time but after getting to the end on first play through the need for high EMS just seemed pointless. I can't see how effective military strength translates into Earth survives when the catalyst beam is engaged.

Also, maybe it was my imagination but for one destroy scene I thought I saw the beam/pulse destroy allied ships above Earth. They could have been destroyed hulks I guess but the idea of collecting so many ships in EMS and then running them into a scenario that ends with those ships being blown up is a little self defeating...... (there's an understatement). Can anyone confirm?

Sure ^^ Taking red one means destroying all technologie in the universe: Every single ship explodes or shut down, in my oppinion all Quarians will die, Suits are not working anymore, and yes they still need them to survive!
All Geth, Edi etc die. Every Colonie on an not perfekt earth fitting world will die. Cities get wipped out because of no food....basicly 99% of life gets killed. -.- MY opinion

Funnily enough one of my thoughts in choosing the ending was I can't kill Edi. She's part of my crew.

It's different from deciding who to back back for with Ash and Kaiden on Virmire. It feels like chooing the destory option your engaging in genocide of the geth who Tali believes are now alive and killing a member of your crew who feels strongly that your influence helped her become more alive...... at least in my play through thus far.

The Geth and EDI thing was what made me hesitate for a moment...lean towards Synthesis (everythingw e knew told us the Reapers could not eb controlled so was never near that one)  but then I remembered something Legion said.

He told us the Geth were looking to carve their own path independent of their original intention, that they would not allow others to control their destiny (with offcourse the Heretics beeing of a different view).

I realized that choosing Synthesis would be deciding the future of not only the Geth, but every species out there. One person deciding the fate of an entire Galaxy and not in the "saving the galaxy" kind of way, but making the decision to alter everything alone.

And that is where I turned towards Destruction. It would mean the Geths death and the loss of EDI (according to the God child) but i had not saved the Rachni, Cured the Genophage and made peace between Quarian and Geth, I had not given  those races a chance to choose a new path only to strip it away again!