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[Stumpykins]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Stumpykins wrote...

does anyone think that, even if this theory is true,
all bioware is going to do is add 1 ending that explains the plot holes and gives closure, we still wont get different endings. SO BASICALLY OUR CHOICES THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE SERIES STILL WONT MATTER IN DIVERSIFYING THE ENDING FOR PEOPLE. MAKING SERIES REPLAY OR EVEN ME3 REPLAY POINTLESS.

No, whatever the ending, replaying wont be pointless.

In case you did not notice, but our path to the ending was littered with events that were inpart shaped by our past choices, no matter the ending those are still there.

If you want an example try searching for the many outcomes the Genophage curing process can have depending on your actions. Here is a few examples.

Malorns data from ME2 decides wether Eve lives or dies.

If Wrex is alive, but you choose to not cure the genophage he learns of your deceit and confronts you on the Citadel, forcing you to kill him.

If Wrex was killed in ME1 and Eve is dead you get a Paragon/Renegade option to talk Mordin our of sacrificing himself. He instead goes to work on the Crucible.

That is just a three of the possible outcomes depending on your past choices.

Also who says that whatever ending they release (if they release an ending) is not tailored to our choices like the entire community is clamoring for.

gd point but i was thinking more along the lines of what if you kill wrex then on the citadel, does the krogoan army lose moral (more krogan die) affecting the ending,
lower war assets come into play, friends die due to lack of resources. if mordin works on the crucible blah blah happens. etc
the choices you listed affect the game, not the ending really(the endings are the exact same), i was just saying they might not add new content taking into account these choice factors, and just provide closure for eveyone.(keeping it like the ending we have at the mo)
(dunno if my post made sense, it did in my head )

[Rob Psyence]

It's almost official people. I just saw on The Feed on G4 that Bioware plans to rework the endings and Bioware will say more next month (April). It's not much different from the blog post but its on a major game network that it'll be "reworked"

[Rob Psyence]

Stumpykins wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Stumpykins wrote...

does anyone think that, even if this theory is true,
all bioware is going to do is add 1 ending that explains the plot holes and gives closure, we still wont get different endings. SO BASICALLY OUR CHOICES THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE SERIES STILL WONT MATTER IN DIVERSIFYING THE ENDING FOR PEOPLE. MAKING SERIES REPLAY OR EVEN ME3 REPLAY POINTLESS.

No, whatever the ending, replaying wont be pointless.

In case you did not notice, but our path to the ending was littered with events that were inpart shaped by our past choices, no matter the ending those are still there.

If you want an example try searching for the many outcomes the Genophage curing process can have depending on your actions. Here is a few examples.

Malorns data from ME2 decides wether Eve lives or dies.

If Wrex is alive, but you choose to not cure the genophage he learns of your deceit and confronts you on the Citadel, forcing you to kill him.

If Wrex was killed in ME1 and Eve is dead you get a Paragon/Renegade option to talk Mordin our of sacrificing himself. He instead goes to work on the Crucible.

That is just a three of the possible outcomes depending on your past choices.

Also who says that whatever ending they release (if they release an ending) is not tailored to our choices like the entire community is clamoring for.

gd point but i was thinking more along the lines of what if you kill wrex then on the citadel, does the krogoan army lose moral (more krogan die) affecting the ending,
lower war assets come into play, friends die due to lack of resources. if mordin works on the crucible blah blah happens. etc
the choices you listed affect the game, not the ending really(the endings are the exact same), i was just saying they might not add new content taking into account these choice factors, and just provide closure for eveyone.(keeping it like the ending we have at the mo)
(dunno if my post made sense, it did in my head )

It's kind of difficult to make a cohesive ending taking every choice a player makes into account.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Stumpykins wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Stumpykins wrote...

does anyone think that, even if this theory is true,
all bioware is going to do is add 1 ending that explains the plot holes and gives closure, we still wont get different endings. SO BASICALLY OUR CHOICES THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE SERIES STILL WONT MATTER IN DIVERSIFYING THE ENDING FOR PEOPLE. MAKING SERIES REPLAY OR EVEN ME3 REPLAY POINTLESS.

No, whatever the ending, replaying wont be pointless.

In case you did not notice, but our path to the ending was littered with events that were inpart shaped by our past choices, no matter the ending those are still there.

If you want an example try searching for the many outcomes the Genophage curing process can have depending on your actions. Here is a few examples.

Malorns data from ME2 decides wether Eve lives or dies.

If Wrex is alive, but you choose to not cure the genophage he learns of your deceit and confronts you on the Citadel, forcing you to kill him.

If Wrex was killed in ME1 and Eve is dead you get a Paragon/Renegade option to talk Mordin our of sacrificing himself. He instead goes to work on the Crucible.

That is just a three of the possible outcomes depending on your past choices.

Also who says that whatever ending they release (if they release an ending) is not tailored to our choices like the entire community is clamoring for.

gd point but i was thinking more along the lines of what if you kill wrex then on the citadel, does the krogoan army lose moral (more krogan die) affecting the ending,
lower war assets come into play, friends die due to lack of resources. if mordin works on the crucible blah blah happens. etc
the choices you listed affect the game, not the ending really(the endings are the exact same), i was just saying they might not add new content taking into account these choice factors, and just provide closure for eveyone.(keeping it like the ending we have at the mo)
(dunno if my post made sense, it did in my head )

It makes sense, but my post was addresing the part where you said replaying the games was pointless. I dont know what will happen in terms of war assets in the different scenarios but Wrex says before you kill him that all Krogan support is called of. That probably means krogan war assets drop drastically or maybe disappear entirely and Mordin is probably an asset increase in the Crucible part.

Off course that dosent cghange the ending much unless you are right on the edge, but it changed the game events making replaying the other games not so pointless.

[ArkkAngel007]

greywardencommander wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

IT only exists under the basis that the real ending would be released later... That tweet means nothing.

It also only exists to make sense of the plotholes.

Fix the plotholes by expanding the endings -> no need for the IT.

IT exists because of the plotholes & says real ending to be released
Release real ending which explains plotholes = IT no longer exists because it is now IE, Indoctrination Ending

Just saying that the theory was created to answer the plotholes is accurate but to dismiss it entirely because 'plotholes are fixed' ignores the facts plotholes might have been deliberate thus the 'expanded ending' picks up where IT says Shepard still is - knocked out (or even half dead) in London

He wasn't dismissing, just stating that IT isn't the only "solution".  If BioWare intended the endings to be literal and all that jazz and explains the missing pieces, IT wouldn't be needed.  It's a fair point.

[ArkkAngel007]

Rob Psyence wrote...

It's almost official people. I just saw on The Feed on G4 that Bioware plans to rework the endings and Bioware will say more next month (April). It's not much different from the blog post but its on a major game network that it'll be "reworked"

It's not much different than the blog post because it is about the blog post.

[greywardencommander]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

IT only exists under the basis that the real ending would be released later... That tweet means nothing.

It also only exists to make sense of the plotholes.

Fix the plotholes by expanding the endings -> no need for the IT.

IT exists because of the plotholes & says real ending to be released
Release real ending which explains plotholes = IT no longer exists because it is now IE, Indoctrination Ending

Just saying that the theory was created to answer the plotholes is accurate but to dismiss it entirely because 'plotholes are fixed' ignores the facts plotholes might have been deliberate thus the 'expanded ending' picks up where IT says Shepard still is - knocked out (or even half dead) in London

He wasn't dismissing, just stating that IT isn't the only "solution".  If BioWare intended the endings to be literal and all that jazz and explains the missing pieces, IT wouldn't be needed.  It's a fair point.

I agree if they came out and explained the endings as they are then I can live with that. It just seemed like a 'if they fix the plotholes there's no need' without addressing the fact that in IT that's exactly what we're saying - IT is a real ending thus addressing the plotholes so I wanted to point it out 

[HunterKYA]

 If Bioware takes IT, right off the bat, as the explanation for why the endings occurred as they're portrayed in the game, it'll show a lack of imagination on their part.  If they were to weave the idea of IT into something more cohesive, something that clears up the majority of the plotholes that exist with endings as they stand now, it may help give ME3 a more conclusive ending that fans were looking for.  It'll all be determined by how much time they take to rework the endings.

Modifié par HunterKYA, 22 mars 2012 - 07:34 .

[Rob Psyence]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Rob Psyence wrote...

It's almost official people. I just saw on The Feed on G4 that Bioware plans to rework the endings and Bioware will say more next month (April). It's not much different from the blog post but its on a major game network that it'll be "reworked"

It's not much different than the blog post because it is about the blog post.

lol I know, I was mostly just highlighting the term "rework"

Modifié par Rob Psyence, 22 mars 2012 - 07:39 .

[Phearmonger]

Well, IT is only an ending to Shep's internal struggle shown through the dream sequences. There's still the events of the war to wrap up, and perhaps a few plot threads but I can't think of any major ones that haven't already been resolved by that point. Whatever the case, IT is not an ending. It's unsatisfying as an ending, but very satisfying as one of two or more climactic struggles. Assuming it's true, I'm glad to see Shep's struggle with indoctrination. Now on to the reapers.

[Stigweird85]

HunterKYA wrote...

 If Bioware takes IT, right off the bat, as the explanation for why the endings occurred as they're portrayed in the game, it'll show a lack of imagination on their part.  If they were to weave the idea of IT into something more cohesive, something that clears up the majority of the plotholes that exist with endings as they stand now, it may help give ME3 a more conclusive ending that fans were looking for.  It'll all be determined by how much time they take to rework the endings.

Can you wait and see what they will produce before critiscing it, 

Personally they lift the IT suits me, it's what comes next that's interesting, with IT citadel conversion an illusion, the reapers are still a threat

[GuyIncognito]

Took a look back at the images provided for "1m1"

Is it a stretch to say that's actually "rMr" the acronym for "remember"?

Modifié par GuyIncognito, 22 mars 2012 - 07:40 .

[HunterKYA]

bigstig wrote...

HunterKYA wrote...

 If Bioware takes IT, right off the bat, as the explanation for why the endings occurred as they're portrayed in the game, it'll show a lack of imagination on their part.  If they were to weave the idea of IT into something more cohesive, something that clears up the majority of the plotholes that exist with endings as they stand now, it may help give ME3 a more conclusive ending that fans were looking for.  It'll all be determined by how much time they take to rework the endings.

Can you wait and see what they will produce before critiscing it, 

Personally they lift the IT suits me, it's what comes next that's interesting, with IT citadel conversion an illusion, the reapers are still a threat

Not trying to criticize.  Simply making an observation.

[greywardencommander]

HunterKYA wrote...

 If Bioware takes IT, right off the bat, as the explanation for why the endings occurred as they're portrayed in the game, it'll show a lack of imagination on their part.  If they were to weave the idea of IT into something more cohesive, something that clears up the majority of the plotholes that exist with endings as they stand now, it may help give ME3 a more conclusive ending that fans were looking for.  It'll all be determined by how much time they take to rework the endings.

If they came out and said 'that's the interpretation but it's not actually in his mind and the game is still over' I completely agree and would be no better than the current ending. This theory argues that it's the internal struggle of the mind thus everything has yet to happen. In other words, you could still have a huge mission (the equivalent of a planet or even just the equivalent of the Collectors base in length) to play before getting to the 'real end' in a DLC or huge patch.

On another note aren't some claiming it's on the disk and yet to be unlocked? Wouldn't it have been hacked by now? I have to admit the fact it's two disks when the campaign with all the side stuff is still so much less than ME1 (one disk) does have me wonder but I can't get over the 'surely it would be hacked' unless it's on the disk and can't be hacked because it's a bunch of seemingly unrecognisable code and gets unlocked by a massive patch...I don't know 

[Stigweird85]

I thought it could be on the disk it'd be the only way to prove it but you are right if it was there it would have been found by somebody, probably by accident went trying to create a nude mod or something

[aslivewire]

HunterKYA wrote...

bigstig wrote...

HunterKYA wrote...

 If Bioware takes IT, right off the bat, as the explanation for why the endings occurred as they're portrayed in the game, it'll show a lack of imagination on their part.  If they were to weave the idea of IT into something more cohesive, something that clears up the majority of the plotholes that exist with endings as they stand now, it may help give ME3 a more conclusive ending that fans were looking for.  It'll all be determined by how much time they take to rework the endings.

Can you wait and see what they will produce before critiscing it, 

Personally they lift the IT suits me, it's what comes next that's interesting, with IT citadel conversion an illusion, the reapers are still a threat

Not trying to criticize.  Simply making an observation.

I don't think it's uncreative, simply because even if IT is true, stating that isn't enough to end the game. They'd still need to factor in the REAL end battles, the actual happy/unhappy/bittersweet/evil endings. They'd need to plan out what the actual final encounters are- was the RGC Harbinger or another reaper? Why did they choose indoctrination and keeping him alive all this time instead of REALLY trying to kill Shepard? IT explains just the literal aspect of what we saw in the last ten minutes- it still doesn't give them their ending.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

HunterKYA wrote...

 If Bioware takes IT, right off the bat, as the explanation for why the endings occurred as they're portrayed in the game, it'll show a lack of imagination on their part.  If they were to weave the idea of IT into something more cohesive, something that clears up the majority of the plotholes that exist with endings as they stand now, it may help give ME3 a more conclusive ending that fans were looking for.  It'll all be determined by how much time they take to rework the endings.

A lack of Imagination on their parts imply that they did not plan it, which we dont know if they did. If the IT (or something every similar) was there plan all along then it shows that they have alot of imagination, not the opposite.

Unfortunatly if the go with the IT we will probably have  a hard time telling if they planned it all along or are just rolling with it. best indication will probably be how long passes until the "Reworked" endings or whatever they are planning are released as that will be an indication of if the ending was finished before the game launched or not.

[aslivewire]

Also could you imagine if they HADN'T planned to announce something at PAX? Or, rather, they had planned to announce something else? (Omega DLC, ME4 game with new character...etc)

Most.

Awkward.

Panel.

Ever.

[JustAidan]

GuyIncognito wrote...

Took a look back at the images provided for "1m1"

Is it a stretch to say that's actually "rMr" the acronym for "remember"?

My first post ever because I love this theory and well...the endings....

Well the 1s are the wrong way around BUT aren't they mirrored on one side of the choices area?
If that is true, that is an extremely nice catch.

Wild speculation follows

Anyone else wondering that if the IT is true, then TIM has not shown up. If Tim hasn't shown up, where is he? Wouldn't he be at the Catalyst. Bare in mind that the reason both the Reapers (TIM leaked it to them didn't he?) and Shepard/Alliance know that the Catalyst is the Citadel from the hacked VI that was recovered from TIM told them so.

Anyone else think there is a second Crucible that TIM is at? He must have had enough resources and people from all those who fled to 'Sanctuary' and probably had access to the scientific data through Udina and other double agents.

Wild speculation ends

Anyway, judging from all the stuff in the game either:

A: Bioware planned the IT all along and implemented this as PR /DLC stunt.
or
B: Bioware planned the IT all along, scraped it and then were too lazy/short on time to remove all the evidence of it.


I am inclined to go with 'A', Dev notes did suggest the IT as a gameplay mechanic that was scrapped, the rest of the game is such high quality and detail, selling DLC, PR exposure etc all point to it out of game.

Guess we'll find out eventually.

Modifié par JustAidan, 22 mars 2012 - 07:59 .

[benben84]

bigstig wrote...

I thought it could be on the disk it'd be the only way to prove it but you are right if it was there it would have been found by somebody, probably by accident went trying to create a nude mod or something

PC would not have it on disc, only console.

[Rob Psyence]

JustAidan wrote...

GuyIncognito wrote...

Took a look back at the images provided for "1m1"

Is it a stretch to say that's actually "rMr" the acronym for "remember"?

My first post ever because I love this theory and well...the endings....

Well the 1s are the wrong way around BUT aren't they mirrored on one side of the choices area?
If that is true, that is an extremely nice catch.

Wild speculation follows

Anyone else wondering that if the IT is true, then TIM has not shown up. If Tim hasn't shown up, where is he? Wouldn't he be at the Catalyst. Bare in mind that the reason both the Reapers (TIM leaked it to them didn't he?) and Shepard/Alliance know that the Catalyst is the Citadel from the hacked VI that was recovered from TIM told them so.

Anyone else think there is a second Crucible that TIM is at? He must have had enough resources and people from all those who fled to 'Sanctuary' and probably had access to the scientific data through Udina and other double agents.

TIM having his own? Isn't that kind of like the movie Contact? lol

Most of the people who fled to sanctuary were experimented on to huskify them too. But TIM may definitely know something the alliance doesn't but the reapers would know because he's indoctorinated.

[MattNI]

Finished the game a few days ago and since then have been stalking the forums trying to find out what exactly just happened. Didn’t take me to long to see I was not alone. For the life of me I cannot understand how BioWare could come up with that ending and think it was good and that is what has driven me to post here.

I have since come across the Indoctrination Theory and think there is credence to it. Not only is the basis behind it solid (i.e. the numerous YouTube explanations) but also personally I cannot believe that the staff at BioWare could all be in unanimous support of the ending as it is. Therefore where are their posts commenting on the ending, both good and bad? Yes the bigwigs are speaking out, but not the ones directly involved, (though I might be wrong, but I haven’t found any).

So this brings out the inner conspiracy theorist in me (which I am certain is in everyone), that this is a ploy by BioWare to garner (free) publicity to a wider audience, that there might in fact be an extended ending in the waiting to be announced.

I may be clutching at my 'emergency induction port' (THANK YOU TO BIGSTIG FOR THAT) here but there’s always hope, but the fact that none of the employees have come out and posted anywhere just gets me thinking. What do you think – am I mad?

Modifié par MattNI, 22 mars 2012 - 08:15 .

[Stigweird85]

benben84 wrote...

bigstig wrote...

I thought it could be on the disk it'd be the only way to prove it but you are right if it was there it would have been found by somebody, probably by accident went trying to create a nude mod or something

PC would not have it on disc, only console.

Good point, so does anyone hack actual hacking skills, see what you can find on the disk?

[Stigweird85]

MattNI wrote...

Finished the game a few days ago and since then have been stalking the forums trying to find out what exactly just happened. Didn’t take me to long to see I was not alone. For the life of me I cannot understand how BioWare could come up with that ending and think it was good and that is what has driven me to post here.


So this brings out the inner conspiracy theorist in me (which I am certain is in everyone), that this is a ploy by BioWare to garner (free) publicity to a wider audience, that there might in fact be an extended ending in the waiting to be announced.

I may be clutching at straws here but there’s always hope, but the fact that none of the employees have come out and posted anywhere just gets me thinking. What do you think – am I mad?

not straws emergency induction ports - I love Tali....

[JustAidan]

Rob Psyence wrote...

TIM having his own? Isn't that kind of like the movie Contact? lol

Most of the people who fled to sanctuary were experimented on to huskify them too. But TIM may definitely know something the alliance doesn't but the reapers would know because he's indoctorinated.

The Reapers can't read TIM's mind though can they? He can still act towards his indoctrinated agenda of controlling them.

Of the refugees at Sanctuary, weren't some of them 'processed' like the Cerberus troopers? Or did I read a log pad somewhere wrong. Since you are looking at a galaxy-wide war the refuge count would probably be in the billions, all with what ever possessions and money. That is a lot of workers and resources plus unlike the Alliance TIM wouldn't have to worry about trying to fight a war at the same time.

As I said, just wild speculation.

Still better than .

MattNI wrote...
I may be clutching at EDPs here but there’s always hope, but the fact that none of the
employees have come out and posted anywhere just gets me thinking. What
do you think – am I mad?

I have to agree with you on all counts. I really hope this is true; this is the best meta-game I've played.

Aside, wish we had a smiley of Tail with a straw.

Modifié par JustAidan, 22 mars 2012 - 08:15 .