57139 réponses à ce sujet

[MattNI]

not straws emergency induction ports - I love Tali....

[/quote]

How did I forget to subsitute that. Damn lol

[Arphee]

Rob Psyence wrote...

It's kind of difficult to make a cohesive ending taking every choice a player makes into account.

Not necessarily, i have five words "Dragon Age: Origins epilogue scene" no that hard to pull off especially when you consider the effort they've put into the secondary and primary codex pages, not to mention the flavor text for every single planet. piece of armor, weapon, weapon upgrade, even the fish.

Its the best means to give people all the answers they could ever need, they can even squeeze it in AFTER a flash cinematic, they could use the environments a;already in game to render the pictures in the background,  they could cue some music, and VIOLA.

This would of course be after Sheppard wakes up and /really/ finishes the fight, as there are no amount of pages or writing that could justify or explain the ending we were given.

Honestly by the looks of things were going to get something similar to Dragon Age: Awakening, considering how they made the stargazer scene out to be all "PLOT TWIST, MORE ON THE WAY GUYS" and all of mass effect 3 was the "Story' that was just told, another 'Story" would have to be fairly larger than a short DLC.

"Well then my sweet, sheppard woke up and kicked the reapers back to whatever dark hole they crawled out of, built tali a house on rannoch ( OR had little blue babies / screwed the reported / Opened a mental health clinic with kelly chambers / has test-tube babies with miranda since shes infertile form all the genetic modifications / married ashley and continued your military career / was forever alone and got promoted form Staff Commander to Major/captain,  Just pick one) and everyone lived happily ever after, now go to sleep"

Doesn't sit well with me, neither does "WELL my sweet before sheppard went to the cerberus base, i forgot to mention something, because im senile, Sheppard went to omega, and accidentally the whole Cerberus operation there, Aria T'loak was pleased, the end"  biowares writing staff is much better than that,  they'd never put out an ending like that without at least some sort of plan.

[Lost Cipher]

What is "IT"? Indoctrination Theory?

[zakaryzb]

GuyIncognito wrote...

Took a look back at the images provided for "1m1"

Is it a stretch to say that's actually "rMr" the acronym for "remember"?

I can't remember what page it was on, but everything regarding the 1M1 structure has been disproven.  It can be seen on the Citadel above you in ME1 when you are outside of it.  Also, the door to the weapons room Garrus is always in reads 8M8.  I really think it was jsut a lazy rehash of textures.

[lookingglassmind]

zakaryzb wrote...

GuyIncognito wrote...

Took a look back at the images provided for "1m1"

Is it a stretch to say that's actually "rMr" the acronym for "remember"?

I can't remember what page it was on, but everything regarding the 1M1 structure has been disproven.  It can be seen on the Citadel above you in ME1 when you are outside of it.  Also, the door to the weapons room Garrus is always in reads 8M8.  I really think it was jsut a lazy rehash of textures.

Agreed.

[Erethrian]

Lost Cipher wrote...

What is "IT"? Indoctrination Theory?

Yes

[Rob Psyence]

JustAidan wrote...

Rob Psyence wrote...

TIM having his own? Isn't that kind of like the movie Contact? lol

Most of the people who fled to sanctuary were experimented on to huskify them too. But TIM may definitely know something the alliance doesn't but the reapers would know because he's indoctorinated.

The Reapers can't read TIM's mind though can they? He can still act towards his indoctrinated agenda of controlling them.

Of the refugees at Sanctuary, weren't some of them 'processed' like the Cerberus troopers? Or did I read a log pad somewhere wrong. Since you are looking at a galaxy-wide war the refuge count would probably be in the billions, all with what ever possessions and money. That is a lot of workers and resources plus unlike the Alliance TIM wouldn't have to worry about trying to fight a war at the same time.

As I said, just wild speculation.

Still better than .

I know I'm not really criticizing you lol.

Based on the knowledge gained from reading the books once a reaper has fully indoctorinated someone it knows their thoughts or at the very least can see what they see and hear what they hear and can control what they see and influence their choices. Paul Grayson thinks about his daughter and tries to fly in the opposite direction but the reapers know where she is because he thought of her and made him set the shuttle to go toward her but makes him think otherwise.

[greywardencommander]

JustAidan wrote...

GuyIncognito wrote...

Took a look back at the images provided for "1m1"

Is it a stretch to say that's actually "rMr" the acronym for "remember"?

My first post ever because I love this theory and well...the endings....

Well the 1s are the wrong way around BUT aren't they mirrored on one side of the choices area?
If that is true, that is an extremely nice catch.

Wild speculation follows

Anyone else wondering that if the IT is true, then TIM has not shown up. If Tim hasn't shown up, where is he? Wouldn't he be at the Catalyst. Bare in mind that the reason both the Reapers (TIM leaked it to them didn't he?) and Shepard/Alliance know that the Catalyst is the Citadel from the hacked VI that was recovered from TIM told them so.

Anyone else think there is a second Crucible that TIM is at? He must have had enough resources and people from all those who fled to 'Sanctuary' and probably had access to the scientific data through Udina and other double agents.

Wild speculation ends

Anyway, judging from all the stuff in the game either:

A: Bioware planned the IT all along and implemented this as PR /DLC stunt.
or
B: Bioware planned the IT all along, scraped it and then were too lazy/short on time to remove all the evidence of it.


I am inclined to go with 'A', Dev notes did suggest the IT as a gameplay mechanic that was scrapped, the rest of the game is such high quality and detail, selling DLC, PR exposure etc all point to it out of game.

Guess we'll find out eventually.

It didn't happen if IT is real, thus TIM is at the ONLY cruicible the Crucible might do the three things in the dream, might be based on fact that Harbinger just chucks in all synthetics to destroy to get Shepard to willingly choose control and synthesis and thus go from the illusion stage (that IT claims Shepard is in the last parts in) to the 'conversion' stage. I found this post on a gaming site about the endings:
__________________________________________________________________________________

Basically, there are different ‘stages’ to keep into account:
1)Beginnings. Some visions, whispers, and maybe a little more foggy mind, more sense of depression etc.
Subject = redeemable, but get him away from anything Reaper related!
Shepard = according to theory, he’s in this stage since at least Arrival. He is, however, perfectly capable despite that, and his choices are still 100% against the Reapers. Reminds me of Frodo, who had dark moods and despair even after Sauron was defeated.

2)Illusion = The illusions get more vivid, to the point of misdirecting your actions and beginning to change your philosophy. Greyson in the novels reaches this point, but is only tipped over the edge by Cerberus giving him Red Sand to compromise his mind. Saren was kept around this stage for quite a while before ME1, and it seems in ME3, TIM also heads into this stage. Benezia also likely held onto here for a while, until she became overwhelmed by being on an actual Reaper.

Subject = mostly irredeemable, with exceptions. The subject may be still useful and might fight against the Reapers, but the ‘dark tendrils’ very strongly influence the mind. The Rachni queen in ME3 (if you saved the ME1 one) may also be at this stage, but more capable at rejecting it than a human would.
Shepard = He’s at this stage by the time he gets to Earth in the end. Getting hit by the blast only tips him over, into his own ‘crucible’ to decide whether he will fight off the indoctrination, or fall into it. Thessia, and the defeat there, seems to be the tipping point into this stage, and direct Reaper presence (hello Earth) is all that’s needed to push him over.

Conversion = The character now believes in something else, just anything BUT destroying the Reapers. The more paragon minded might believe that working with the Reapers or alongside them, is realistic. The more Renegade minded might believe that controlling them or at least using their technology in dangerous ways, is realistic. Overall, the slide into become a slave is now clear to the more lucid minded. Saren is this throughout ME1, until his near total conversion at the Citadel. Benezia is as well, but she (with her biotic-magic-meditation-stuff) was able to lock out a part of her mind to the indoctrination. TIM is likely strongly into this stage in ME3, and his implants only tip him over strongly.

Subject = irredeemable, seemingly. People like Shepard CAN break through to them though, but only for a short period of time. The subject will likely opt for suicide at this point, if anything. Samara’s daughter also opted for setting off the bomb, instead of going with the others, because she knew she was lost.

Shepard = only at this stage if Synthesis or Control are chosen. You’ve already ‘lost’ then. I’d love if alternate endings happen with these, but they would be ‘bad’ endings (at least resulting in Shepard’s death, maybe suicide if your squadmates have strong relationships with you and can talk you down).

Thrall = Now fully in the Reaper’s grasp, the individual is so different from his normal self, that anyone can see it from a mile away. This is the eventual result of the Reaper’s indoctrination by itself, and the Reapers tend to hold back on it for their more useful sleeper agents. Regular guys though? They’re screwed, and left to worshipping the Reapers with gibberish.

Subject = shoot him, he’s lost. Maybe, in better conditions, could be put into a psych ward. He’s not useful to you, nor the Reapers (unless they are huskified), except as crazy suicide bombers or something.

Shepard = Not here at all! The Reapers likely don’t even want him to become this, or even a Saren. They’d likely want him to be secretly under their thumb, so he can lead the entire galaxy to their doom.Husk = by which, I mean a husk of the former self. This can mean literal husks (aka total puppets), or organic slaves (like the Collectors). In any case, there is no free will left, and the subject exists only for the Reaper’s more ‘manpower’ required goals, like infantry, or large scale projects like construction.
__________________________________________________________________________________

My thoughts: So in short any future DLC can say that if you select destroy in your 'crucible (lets remember it means place of trial) of the mind' you go from Illusion stage back to your self, maybe because of his strength of mind,

if you succumb to the indoctrination by choosing control you go into the:

Conversion stage - this means you can't go back to your self however you can have the Saren type 'suicide' by saving the galaxy in your last moment perhaps by letting your squad take you down or killing yourself to allow the crucible to use - i'd call that a bittersweet ending.

If you choose synthesis you could maybe have entered a worse illusion stage or conversion stage I don't know but you could either have further battles of the mind in the DLC to throw off the indoctrination, maybe with help from squad mates so those who chose synthesis can still have control of Shepard as normal but maybe they eventually succumb to your wounds and the loss of your mind at the end or he dies sacrificing himself to make ammends for almost failing at the last hurdle - another bittersweet ending

Perhaps if with the real crucible Shepard is the catalyst (maybe the god child explains this in the real ending, that one person in each cycle has the potential to be the catalyst but the previous cycles didn't understand what that meant, and he is simply the guardian) then in the case of the Control and Synthesis examples you throw off the indoctrination long enough to activate it and then die, fight your squad or whatever

Modifié par greywardencommander, 22 mars 2012 - 08:33 .

[Stigweird85]

Or as I've suggested fight your squad mates and have your LI put you down

[Erethrian]

bigstig wrote...

Or as I've suggested fight your squad mates and have your LI put you down

Yeah but I have to agree with other people against this though. I know Shepard's not the normal human but he is, in fact, human. So if he's been indoctrinated, nothing can save him but suicide or someone killing him (Grayson form Retribution is an example of this).

Also grasping at emergency induction ports I wrote this a few pages ago:

"Hmmm, against arguements against indoctrination:

Anti-It side: A lot of people is saying that Indoctrination can't be resisted.

IT-side: A lot of people is saying Cerberus could've implanted reaper tech in Shepard's body during the Lazarus project.

Another point of view supporting indoctrination Theory.

I think the Illusive man (Jack from now on) really fights for humanity, due to what happened during the war against the turians and the fact he saw what reaper tech could make to others.

Why not a control chip inside Shepards head?

Why the reaper tech inside Shepard hasn't indoctrinated Shepard yet as it did with Grayson (Book, ME: Retribution)...

Maybe... Because Jack knew he(TIM himself) already was being indoctrinated, slowly, due to what happened during Xanxi. So, what he used to rebuild Shepard (and knowing jack knew there was a reaper signal), maybe was some kind of technology made by Cerberus and meant to prevent Shepard from becoming completely indoctrinated, or at least giving him a chance to not become indoctrinated.

What if the implants Shepard has, interferes somehow with the reaper signal? What if Jack was trying to save Shepard so he could save himself? So if IT is true, once Shepard beats the indoctrination (choosing Destroy) he's completely free from it.


Well, this is really grasping at emegency induction portsbut, haha, I think there're no reasons to not implant a control chip inside Shepard's mind if Jack already was completely indoctrinated."

Modifié par Erethrian, 22 mars 2012 - 08:31 .

[greywardencommander]

I know it was long but it's worth a read I promise

[Erethrian]

greywardencommander wrote...

I know it was long but it's worth a read I promise

Yep, i've read it. Just fix the formatting if possible (paragraphs ;P) ^^

I think they're good points.

EDIT: Although, they scrapped the "indoctrination gameplay" once, and maybe it won't work. I'm still thinking that the last choice is like fighting against a final boss, there's only one way to win, choosing the right choice/killing the final boss. But we'll see.

Modifié par Erethrian, 22 mars 2012 - 08:35 .

[dorktainian]

Shep is the catalyst. He meets star kid and realises its actually Harbinger. In this reality Harbinger is pretty ineffective against Vanguard Charge so shep Vanguard Charges Harbies ass off the Crucible. then lets bring string theory into the equation. shep can save the galaxy, but by dragging the reapers into an alternate universe - he has to go too and can never come back.

shep and the reapers are taken into an alternate universe through the citadel relay which then closes forever.

[greywardencommander]

Erethrian wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

I know it was long but it's worth a read I promise

Yep, i've read it. Just fix the formatting if possible (paragraphs ;P) ^^

I think they're good points.

When I pasted it didn't come up like that already ammended it

[Erethrian]

greywardencommander wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

I know it was long but it's worth a read I promise

Yep, i've read it. Just fix the formatting if possible (paragraphs ;P) ^^

I think they're good points.

When I pasted it didn't come up like that already ammended it

Yep, it's this forum, haha. Anyway, thank you!  Much better now ^^

[N7KnightSabre]

I was so pissed with the ending and couldn't see where bioware went wrong. Then I watched a youtube video on the IT and was blown away by how cunning and brilliant the ending was if this theory is proven by Bioware. Does Bioware actually confirm that this is what happened to Shepard? I think the DLC should show what happens after you make a choice, the endings in the game were too short.

[campozx6]

I really hope they don't go and change the ending! then it will be even more messed up and hard to follow!! They just need to add to the endings we already have.

I STRONGLY believe that the IT is so important to ME3. It proves that Shep and you the player can fall to the reapers. If you and Shep managed to overcome Indoctrination (chose the destroy option) then you havent just won a main boss with some button smashing and a couple of restarts. You have finished the game with a mental victory bigger than any game before. Bioware went to such lengths to make this possible by using subliminal stimuli and classic conditioning. http://en.wikipedia....al_conditioning     By constantly rewarding you in a positive manner with the paragon choice with blue and giving the final 3 choices a colour difference is just one example of this.

And I don't know why people can't see that the "ghost child" was not actually a ghost child, it was harbinger. ( I have read so many posts about people not knowing why there was a ghost child, and want bioware to take him out because they don't know what he was) Just see the CODEX in mass effect about how indoctrination works and seeing ghostly figures. One have to admit that "he" managed to indoctrinate allot of players and their Sheps. I am sure even the people that opted for the destroy option had a couple of seconds of doubt.

All they need to do is pick up from where this game finished and give us an epic ending, one that can give us all closure.

Modifié par campozx6, 22 mars 2012 - 08:40 .

[Hunter_Wolf]

[quote]Rob Psyence wrote...

It's kind of difficult to make a cohesive ending taking every choice a player makes into account.[/quote]

[/quote]

Meh you work two different scenarios Good / Bad and split them up from there. 

Bad
1) Shepard and allies die
2) Evil Shepard Takes over Reapers and leaves to concur the rest of the galaxy while saving the Milky Way

Good
1) Shepard and friends live and defeat the reapers.
2) Shepard takes control  of the reapers and leaves the Milky Way, set out to explore the greater unknowns of the universe. 


It doesn't have to be so narrowed down spot clean but it has to be consistent and make sense.

[LadyVakarian]

bigstig wrote...

Or as I've suggested fight your squad mates and have your LI put you down

That would honestly make me cry. I can't imagine Garrus having to put my femShep down. 

Shepard gets injured and falls to her knees, looks up at Garrus:

"I guess we will never find out what a turian-human baby looks like... Goodbye Shepard... (drops the L word)."

Shoots her in the head... 

Me: 

[Erethrian]

LadyPaine wrote...

I was so pissed with the ending and couldn't see where bioware went wrong. Then I watched a youtube video on the IT and was blown away by how cunning and brilliant the ending was if this theory is proven by Bioware. Does Bioware actually confirm that this is what happened to Shepard? I think the DLC should show what happens after you make a choice, the endings in the game were too short.

Neither denied, nor confirmed. We, though, have hope and will wait until April 6th or 7th for the to announce what's next.

[JustAidan]

Rob Psyence wrote...

I know I'm not really criticizing you lol.

Based on the knowledge gained from reading the books once a reaper has fully indoctorinated someone it knows their thoughts or at the very least can see what they see and hear what they hear and can control what they see and influence their choices. Paul Grayson thinks about his daughter and tries to fly in the opposite direction but the reapers know where she is because he thought of her and made him set the shuttle to go toward her but makes him think otherwise.

Ah, corrected me then. Unfortunately I haven't read any of the books. I was wondering what TIM wanted with Omega, I initially guessed it was a sidequest, then DCL, now I was guessing that the wanted a fallback HQ after Shepard and Co invade the original one.

My friend is a big Mass Effect fan, he loves the buddy cop stuff bettween Shepard and Garrus, so he got me in to Mass Effect 2. He say he was disappointed with the endings is an understatement, he perked up quite a bit when I forwarded him this thread.

greywardencommander wrote...
Informative stuff

That was pretty enlightning stuff.

I just really hope Star/god/child/other godlike force isn't in the "real" ending. Which he shouldn't be if this ending is and indoctrination attempt (I hope).

I was actually thinking that in order to preserve the setting for future games, the Crucible device could interfer with indoctrination / Reapers command over their soliders (think this mentioned already) making a area where it is dangerous for them. Think means you end up with a setting where the Reapers (Mecha-Cthullu) have been "sealed" outside.


Edit: Holy carp this forum moves fast.

Modifié par JustAidan, 22 mars 2012 - 08:41 .

[Hunter_Wolf]

campozx6 wrote...

I really hope they don't go and change the ending! then it will be even more messed up and hard to follow!! They just need to add to the endings we already have.

Rest assured, they didn't say they were going to. They said they were looking at ways to clear things up. More closure, I very much doubt they'll strip out the last 10 minutes and make us go through an entirely new sequence instead. If IT theory is correct, then the final battle will start after waking up.

[greywardencommander]

dorktainian wrote...

Shep is the catalyst. He meets star kid and realises its actually Harbinger. In this reality Harbinger is pretty ineffective against Vanguard Charge so shep Vanguard Charges Harbies ass off the Crucible. then lets bring string theory into the equation. shep can save the galaxy, but by dragging the reapers into an alternate universe - he has to go too and can never come back.

shep and the reapers are taken into an alternate universe through the citadel relay which then closes forever.

I think maybe having Harbinger as Star child again not best idea bit predictable, maybe have a showdown with Haringer before reaching the crucible

it's possible to have star child as a guardian rather than the catalyst, properly explaining the choices and explaining Shepard is the catalyst like I say above. No lies, no tricks but Destroy does something to the Reapers (dark energy idea maybe) and maybe the Mass Relays too based on Dark energy idea too, maybe if EMS or reputation or whatever is high enough there's a fourth option that enables destroying the Reapers only OR allowing it to shut down it's defences, thus you don't destroy them but your high EMS enables the fleet to take them out.

[Erethrian]

Hunter_Wolf wrote...

campozx6 wrote...

I really hope they don't go and change the ending! then it will be even more messed up and hard to follow!! They just need to add to the endings we already have.

Rest assured, they didn't say they were going to. They said they were looking at ways to clear things up. More closure, I very much doubt they'll strip out the last 10 minutes and make us go through an entirely new sequence instead. If IT theory is correct, then the final battle will start after waking up.

And we'll be there without having to "replay" the final mission in order to Take Earth Back!
 

[greywardencommander]

Erethrian wrote...

Hunter_Wolf wrote...

campozx6 wrote...

I really hope they don't go and change the ending! then it will be even more messed up and hard to follow!! They just need to add to the endings we already have.

Rest assured, they didn't say they were going to. They said they were looking at ways to clear things up. More closure, I very much doubt they'll strip out the last 10 minutes and make us go through an entirely new sequence instead. If IT theory is correct, then the final battle will start after waking up.

And we'll be there without having to "replay" the final mission in order to Take Earth Back!
 

don't have to, it can be done without having destroy as the 'canon' option meaning lots more potential endings regarding an indoctrinated Shepard, see my post above and the link in my signature