57139 réponses à ce sujet

[nyrocron]

djspectre wrote...

To the OP, 900 pages later, the only piece of evidence (which you never mentioned in your mile long diatribe of 99% baseless conjecture) that would point to it being a dream/hallucination/indoctrination/whatever is the fact that he is no longer standing in an enclosed area of the citadel when he's talking to the star child.

Your picture showing there is a gap between the crucible and the citadel clearly shows that he is standing on the outside of the presidium tower, which is directly exposed to space and shepard is wearing plain clothes with not a shred of his combat armor/enviro-suit to be found.

He should have suffocated.

The rest of the article is rather long winded and amounts to nothing but conjecture and conspiracy theorist ramblings.

As there can be artificial atmosphere elsewhere in space, that would be possible to explain in my opinion. What really noone could explain yet is how Shepard could survive the explosion and end up breathing in rubble.

Modifié par nyrocron, 22 mars 2012 - 11:30 .

[aslivewire]

djspectre wrote...

To the OP, 900 pages later, the only piece of evidence (which you never mentioned in your mile long diatribe of 99% baseless conjecture) that would point to it being a dream/hallucination/indoctrination/whatever is the fact that he is no longer standing in an enclosed area of the citadel when he's talking to the star child.

Your picture showing there is a gap between the crucible and the citadel clearly shows that he is standing on the outside of the presidium tower, which is directly exposed to space and shepard is wearing plain clothes with not a shred of his combat armor/enviro-suit to be found.

He should have suffocated.

The rest of the article is rather long winded and amounts to nothing but conjecture and conspiracy theorist ramblings.

I assume you're also counting the weirdness of 'Control' being encouraged and accepted by Shepard while Destroy is shot down and tries to show Anderson as Renegade as conspiracy talk?

[greywardencommander]

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

dragondragon wrote...

I like the indoctrination idea, but when does it start and stop?
Clearly every time Shepards is knocked unconsious(probably misspelled that one) something must happen. So there is definitely a change from the scene where he has been dealing with Anderson to the one where he talks to the catalyst. I have an idea that he somehow enters the AI of the citadel, where he is met by the child.

That's why he says you are the first organic to stand there.
That also explains how the reapers could get destroyed, since Shepards doing inside the citadel will have a real effect on the reapers.

Therefore Shepard never leaves London but is continuing the fight in his head and is able to wake up again in the destroy ending.

If only I could find some meaning with Joker's escape.

Many believe that the cinematic sequences that happen after you choose an ending are simply there as visions of "hope" in shepards mind.

It's also possible that the crucible part is based on fact (Harbinger know's what it does he just didn't know that's what they were doing until TIM tells him) so although the rest is based on Shepard's memories such as the walk to the beam looks like the conduit (even to the point of the Mako), the Citadel stuff is like the collector's base, TIM killing himself is like Saren. Shepard's never been to the heart of the citadel where the conduit needs to be so that's formed from Harbinger's perception. The bit with the relays is the neurons firing in the brain as either fighting indoctrination (red) or succumbing spreads across his brain. Joker bit is HOPE (the common theme throughout the game) that his friends will always make it no matter how bleak.

In my idea for DLC ending, the crucible acts the same way (because the dream is based on fact but was deliberately distorted by Harbinger) but it plays out differently,
Shepard is the Catalyst, the starchild is an AI left by the species that is there to provide the options and to identify when the 'cycle can end' because Shepard is the catalyst in the bringer (or herder if you want to use his name) of peace between geth and quarians and proves that it can happen (so in order not to shut down the geth & AI too you need to have ended the conflict with peace)

The sense of mystery regarding the Reapers can remain but closure regarding the current happenings still occurs. Perhaps they were created by the original species that became overrun with synthetics and a 'failsafe' in the crucible is there so when the peace can happen, the Reapers can be destroyed. Perhaps the Reapers 'are' the original species that have become indoctrinated to their own purpose, this can be dealt with in future content - the closure is there but the 'mystery' continues. This is much better than the mystery being thrown out with a 'i created synthetics kill organics to protect them from synthetics' in my opinion



http://social.biowar...index/10350970 

Modifié par greywardencommander, 22 mars 2012 - 11:41 .

[greywardencommander]

aslivewire wrote...

djspectre wrote...

To the OP, 900 pages later, the only piece of evidence (which you never mentioned in your mile long diatribe of 99% baseless conjecture) that would point to it being a dream/hallucination/indoctrination/whatever is the fact that he is no longer standing in an enclosed area of the citadel when he's talking to the star child.

Your picture showing there is a gap between the crucible and the citadel clearly shows that he is standing on the outside of the presidium tower, which is directly exposed to space and shepard is wearing plain clothes with not a shred of his combat armor/enviro-suit to be found.

He should have suffocated.

The rest of the article is rather long winded and amounts to nothing but conjecture and conspiracy theorist ramblings.

I assume you're also counting the weirdness of 'Control' being encouraged and accepted by Shepard while Destroy is shot down and tries to show Anderson as Renegade as conspiracy talk?

that gap against the IT re. should have suffocated yet somehow lives under a pile of rubble was filled in a long time ago

Modifié par greywardencommander, 22 mars 2012 - 11:42 .

[Redbelle]

djspectre wrote...

To the OP, 900 pages later, the only piece of evidence (which you never mentioned in your mile long diatribe of 99% baseless conjecture) that would point to it being a dream/hallucination/indoctrination/whatever is the fact that he is no longer standing in an enclosed area of the citadel when he's talking to the star child.

Your picture showing there is a gap between the crucible and the citadel clearly shows that he is standing on the outside of the presidium tower, which is directly exposed to space and shepard is wearing plain clothes with not a shred of his combat armor/enviro-suit to be found.

He should have suffocated.

The rest of the article is rather long winded and amounts to nothing but conjecture and conspiracy theorist ramblings.

mass effect fields stopped air rushing out of Normany when it got hulled in ME2 so the citadel could have a more elaborate system for holding in an atmoshere

[Golferguy758]

So did something happen today that I'm not aware of?

[greywardencommander]

Redbelle wrote...

djspectre wrote...

To the OP, 900 pages later, the only piece of evidence (which you never mentioned in your mile long diatribe of 99% baseless conjecture) that would point to it being a dream/hallucination/indoctrination/whatever is the fact that he is no longer standing in an enclosed area of the citadel when he's talking to the star child.

Your picture showing there is a gap between the crucible and the citadel clearly shows that he is standing on the outside of the presidium tower, which is directly exposed to space and shepard is wearing plain clothes with not a shred of his combat armor/enviro-suit to be found.

He should have suffocated.

The rest of the article is rather long winded and amounts to nothing but conjecture and conspiracy theorist ramblings.

mass effect fields stopped air rushing out of Normany when it got hulled in ME2 so the citadel could have a more elaborate system for holding in an atmoshere

Exactly, the point is that even if that bit was true how did he survive the explosion go through space and wake up breathing under a pile of rubble. Even if he was in the Citadel and can breathe - how did he survive the explosion

[djspectre]

greywardencommander wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

djspectre wrote...

To the OP, 900 pages later, the only piece of evidence (which you never mentioned in your mile long diatribe of 99% baseless conjecture) that would point to it being a dream/hallucination/indoctrination/whatever is the fact that he is no longer standing in an enclosed area of the citadel when he's talking to the star child.

Your picture showing there is a gap between the crucible and the citadel clearly shows that he is standing on the outside of the presidium tower, which is directly exposed to space and shepard is wearing plain clothes with not a shred of his combat armor/enviro-suit to be found.

He should have suffocated.

The rest of the article is rather long winded and amounts to nothing but conjecture and conspiracy theorist ramblings.

mass effect fields stopped air rushing out of Normany when it got hulled in ME2 so the citadel could have a more elaborate system for holding in an atmoshere

Exactly, the point is that even if that bit was true how did he survive the explosion go through space and wake up breathing under a pile of rubble. Even if he was in the Citadel and can breathe - how did he survive the explosion

The light beam that brought him up there could have sent him back down. There was a 'warm up' period before the citadel exploded. A last second transport back to the surface of London isn't completely unreasonable. 

[ZerebusPrime]

Duckin50s wrote...

i really hope that if bioware decides to alter the ending that they go with this theory as a way out.
that said if i remember correctly in mass effect 2 harbinger could take direct control of the collectors so couldn't he do that with the illusive man?? then shepard and the illusive man/harbinger could battle it out at the end, more of a climatic ending, imo anyway.

This.  I already recomended as such in the ending suggestions thread.

At the risk of sounding corny, I want the Illusive Man to almost beat the Reapers on his own terms.  I want Harbinger to smite him.  And then I want Shepard to fight an Illusive Man / Harbinger avatar in an upgraded version of the Council Chambers level where the station control is, echoing the Sovereign/Saren boss fight at the end of Mass Effect 1 only better.

[greywardencommander]

djspectre wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

djspectre wrote...

To the OP, 900 pages later, the only piece of evidence (which you never mentioned in your mile long diatribe of 99% baseless conjecture) that would point to it being a dream/hallucination/indoctrination/whatever is the fact that he is no longer standing in an enclosed area of the citadel when he's talking to the star child.

Your picture showing there is a gap between the crucible and the citadel clearly shows that he is standing on the outside of the presidium tower, which is directly exposed to space and shepard is wearing plain clothes with not a shred of his combat armor/enviro-suit to be found.

He should have suffocated.

The rest of the article is rather long winded and amounts to nothing but conjecture and conspiracy theorist ramblings.

mass effect fields stopped air rushing out of Normany when it got hulled in ME2 so the citadel could have a more elaborate system for holding in an atmoshere

Exactly, the point is that even if that bit was true how did he survive the explosion go through space and wake up breathing under a pile of rubble. Even if he was in the Citadel and can breathe - how did he survive the explosion

The light beam that brought him up there could have sent him back down. There was a 'warm up' period before the citadel exploded. A last second transport back to the surface of London isn't completely unreasonable. 

If that were true then in the breathing scene wouldn't it have made more sense to have him standing up next to the beam rather than under a pile of rubble to make that clearer? That would have put this theory to bed from the off

[Tieger]

you mean rather than showing shep getting blown up? yeah, it wouldve made a lot more sense.

i also find it amusing that this is the elaborate control scheme the catalyst has set up -
so we've got this device... so now, how shall we activate it? lets have 3 ways!
one way, you shoot a power conduit to turn it on and blow stuff up. that makes sense right.
another you'll.... hold 2 glowy electrical things, because that shows you controlling things i guess?
and for the 3rd... ah to hell with it, just stand in a glowy beam of light. that'll be cool.
i mean come on. if it *wasnt* trying to influence your decision, why the hell would it be set up like that?

[ValnKmere]

I think in the end, if we go with the Introduction Theory, maybe its not that you've "beaten" indoctrination or "succumbed." You either showed strong will or didn't. An ending DLC could pick up from the rubble with each having made his or her choice.

Queue fight with Harbinger, Queue fight with TIM and Queue ultimate choice.

[Either.Ardrey]

djspectre wrote...

To the OP, 900 pages later, the only piece of evidence (which you never mentioned in your mile long diatribe of 99% baseless conjecture) that would point to it being a dream/hallucination/indoctrination/whatever is the fact that he is no longer standing in an enclosed area of the citadel when he's talking to the star child.

Your picture showing there is a gap between the crucible and the citadel clearly shows that he is standing on the outside of the presidium tower, which is directly exposed to space and shepard is wearing plain clothes with not a shred of his combat armor/enviro-suit to be found.

He should have suffocated.

The rest of the article is rather long winded and amounts to nothing but conjecture and conspiracy theorist ramblings.

As previously stated, that was mentioned a long time ago, and many times since. Honestly, the ShepAlive ending clip is the most telling point towards something not being right. If things were as the are presented at face value, why even bother having that clip made? 'Could've saved a small chunk of the budget there.

[greywardencommander]

ValnKmere wrote...

I think in the end, if we go with the Introduction Theory, maybe its not that you've "beaten" indoctrination or "succumbed." You either showed strong will or didn't. An ending DLC could pick up from the rubble with each having made his or her choice.

Queue fight with Harbinger, Queue fight with TIM and Queue ultimate choice.

Maybe but that would be even more 'you didn't take into account my choice bioware how could you' from a lot of people if they did the dlc (regardless of if this was deliberate or not) given they end it in such a way it would be odd not to have it matter hence why we say if you chose control or syntheisis is can have implications in the dlc
http://social.biowar.../index/10350970 

[greywardencommander]

Arcian wrote...

Either.Ardrey wrote...

As previously stated, that was mentioned a long time ago, and many times since. Honestly, the ShepAlive ending clip is the most telling point towards something not being right. If things were as the are presented at face value, why even bother having that clip made? 'Could've saved a small chunk of the budget there.

They had that clip because they seriously expected us to believe Shepard could survive he Citadel exploding.

To drive my point home, they seriously thought we would like the RGB endings. That should be quite telling of how correct their assessments have been so far.

There's no secrets, no ulterior plan, no hidden messages, just a company that has fallen so far that they can no longer see their own mistakes.

Maybe they did, we're also giving them a way to correct it without changing a thing, not sacrificing anybody's choice in the end, appease everybody and save face
http://social.biowar.../index/10350970 

Modifié par greywardencommander, 23 mars 2012 - 12:22 .

[nyrocron]

Arcian wrote...

Either.Ardrey wrote...

As previously stated, that was mentioned a long time ago, and many times since. Honestly, the ShepAlive ending clip is the most telling point towards something not being right. If things were as the are presented at face value, why even bother having that clip made? 'Could've saved a small chunk of the budget there.

They had that clip because they seriously expected us to believe Shepard could survive he Citadel exploding.

To drive my point home, they seriously thought we would like the RGB endings. That should be quite telling of how correct their assessments have been so far.

There's no secrets, no ulterior plan, no hidden messages, just a company that has fallen so far that they can no longer see their own mistakes.

Why? And if so, why not use it as a way to explain the DLC?

Modifié par nyrocron, 23 mars 2012 - 12:22 .

[FarGears]

I support the Indoctrination Theory.
Its makes me feel better that bioware made the ending be really bad because it was a dream and it wasnt really "real" because the current ending sucks.

Modifié par FarGears, 23 mars 2012 - 12:25 .

[greywardencommander]

FarGears wrote...

I support the Indoctrination Theory.
Its makes me feel better that bioware made the ending be really bad because it was a dream and it wasnt really "real" because the current ending sucks.

I agree, if there weren't so many major plot holes in the last 10 minutes I could genuinely live with the endings I could but it was so uncharacteristic in a series that's tried (and for the most part succeeded) to be as cohesive as possible in their own lore and in their own programming (i.e. in terms of cutscenes)

Modifié par greywardencommander, 23 mars 2012 - 12:32 .

[ShepardTheHopeful]

nyrocron wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Either.Ardrey wrote...

As previously stated, that was mentioned a long time ago, and many times since. Honestly, the ShepAlive ending clip is the most telling point towards something not being right. If things were as the are presented at face value, why even bother having that clip made? 'Could've saved a small chunk of the budget there.

They had that clip because they seriously expected us to believe Shepard could survive he Citadel exploding.

To drive my point home, they seriously thought we would like the RGB endings. That should be quite telling of how correct their assessments have been so far.

There's no secrets, no ulterior plan, no hidden messages, just a company that has fallen so far that they can no longer see their own mistakes.

Why? And if so, why not use it as a way to explain the DLC?

Who says Shepard couldn't survive that did absolutely none of you play 2? The man died and got better! I mean he was blown up burnt left in space with no air for HOURS  and somehow survive it all? So basically you're telling me the man who survived getting blown up and left in space with no air couldn't survive falling with no air? And hey maybe he doesn't burn up maybe the o-zone in the future sucks from global warming but with the tech we have it doesn't matter. Who knows we know virtually nothing about futuristic earth in this game it's never really been of interest until it was attacked. So the idea of shepard making it to earth and surviving is just as likely as it all being a dream to me!

[greywardencommander]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Either.Ardrey wrote...

As previously stated, that was mentioned a long time ago, and many times since. Honestly, the ShepAlive ending clip is the most telling point towards something not being right. If things were as the are presented at face value, why even bother having that clip made? 'Could've saved a small chunk of the budget there.

They had that clip because they seriously expected us to believe Shepard could survive he Citadel exploding.

To drive my point home, they seriously thought we would like the RGB endings. That should be quite telling of how correct their assessments have been so far.

There's no secrets, no ulterior plan, no hidden messages, just a company that has fallen so far that they can no longer see their own mistakes.

Why? And if so, why not use it as a way to explain the DLC?

Who says Shepard couldn't survive that did absolutely none of you play 2? The man died and got better! I mean he was blown up burnt left in space with no air for HOURS  and somehow survive it all? So basically you're telling me the man who survived getting blown up and left in space with no air couldn't survive falling with no air? And hey maybe he doesn't burn up maybe the o-zone in the future sucks from global warming but with the tech we have it doesn't matter. Who knows we know virtually nothing about futuristic earth in this game it's never really been of interest until it was attacked. So the idea of shepard making it to earth and surviving is just as likely as it all being a dream to me!

yeah the guy died in ME2 mate...nice to see you paid attention

Modifié par greywardencommander, 23 mars 2012 - 12:34 .

[greywardencommander]

Arcian wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

Maybe they did, we're also giving them a way to correct it without changing a thing, not sacrificing anybody's choice in the end, appease everybody and save face
http://social.biowar.../index/10350970 

Except that no, it will not appease everyone since Destroy is the only ending in which he wakes up. The people who chose Control or Synthesis are screwed.

Even so, indoctrination causes tremendous, permanent brain damage and can't be broken free from at the Hallucination stage, meaning Shepard only wakes up as a unwilling slave to the Reapers who has to be put down by his friends as he tries to kill them against his will.

No they're not screwed it is the emodiment of 'your choices matter' if you read what I linked to you would see that

[titusrsoooooo1337]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Either.Ardrey wrote...

As previously stated, that was mentioned a long time ago, and many times since. Honestly, the ShepAlive ending clip is the most telling point towards something not being right. If things were as the are presented at face value, why even bother having that clip made? 'Could've saved a small chunk of the budget there.

They had that clip because they seriously expected us to believe Shepard could survive he Citadel exploding.

To drive my point home, they seriously thought we would like the RGB endings. That should be quite telling of how correct their assessments have been so far.

There's no secrets, no ulterior plan, no hidden messages, just a company that has fallen so far that they can no longer see their own mistakes.

Why? And if so, why not use it as a way to explain the DLC?

Who says Shepard couldn't survive that did absolutely none of you play 2? The man died and got better! I mean he was blown up burnt left in space with no air for HOURS  and somehow survive it all? So basically you're telling me the man who survived getting blown up and left in space with no air couldn't survive falling with no air? And hey maybe he doesn't burn up maybe the o-zone in the future sucks from global warming but with the tech we have it doesn't matter. Who knows we know virtually nothing about futuristic earth in this game it's never really been of interest until it was attacked. So the idea of shepard making it to earth and surviving is just as likely as it all being a dream to me!

surviving from lack of oxygen is much different than surviving plunging miles to earth at terminal velocity and smacking solid ground.

[ShepardTheHopeful]

Modifié par ShepardTheHopeful, 23 mars 2012 - 12:40 .