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Bill Casey wrote...
"The Final Hours" essentially confirms the indoctrination theory. They say they were working on a game mechanic where the reapers took full control of Shepard's movements at the end of the game, but they had to drop it because the mechanic became too difficult to implement...
it's been stated before in the final hours app they say a scene where you're indoctrinated was scrapped because of a gameplay mechanic, how to control Shepard whilst being controlled by the Reapers (in terms of dialogue too I imagine). Doesn't mean the idea was scrapped and why come out with it at all unless it's a hint?uh-oh0331 wrote...
does anyone else feel like the community saved the Ending/Bioware by coming up with the indoctrination theory.
If the indoctrination theory was correct why hasnt Bioware hinted at it? Is it because they want to make DLC and more money? Good PR?
I watched the videos and the Indoctrination theory makes sense based on the the information presented, but at the same time I wonder if we are looking too far into it and creating something out of nothing.
After watching the videos I felt like "CRAP!!! I picked the wrong ending....I knew I should have just killed the SOB's" I didnt want to wipe out all AI though.
This will be great PR for Bioware especially if they tricked(indoctrinated) nearly the entire ME community. That would be truly legendary. I dont know if there is really any way to prove that this was Bioware's actual initial intention or if they just took the indoctrination theory and ran with it after the fact.
Modifié par greywardencommander, 23 mars 2012 - 01:13 .
greywardencommander wrote...
ShepardTheHopeful wrote...
titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...
ShepardTheHopeful wrote...
I truely don't understand why that of all things in the mass effect universe is the impossibility when it happened to him without the nanobots and implants working 24/7 now they are working at peak condition and doing everything in their power to keep shepard alive. Maybe that breath was a breath of coming back and they NEVER tell you just how long Shepard is down there he could've easily fell anywhere that had concrete there's no actual proof he falls in London maybe soldiers can't find him because the majority of the ground forces are already dead. There are many reasons it could work if it's worked before unlike Shepard being indoctrinated which has never happened before but you can theorize it happened before just like I can theorize Shepard could survive the fall. Stranger things happen in Sci-fi
I think it's funny that you, along with more than half of BSN, would try this hard to disprove this theory simply because you WANT to be mad at bioware.
...I'm not mad at bioware in the least. I got the ending yeah it was bad. Really bad but I still loved the game. The ending wasn't great, a few things weren't but I bought and played it loved it til that part and played it again. It's this theory that I just don't believe in. You guys treat it like it's the definite and makes the most sense. I see it a diifferent way so I'm debating it. I'm not judging or trolling anyones opinion. I just truely don't believe that the indoctrination theory is right and I don't want bioware to make a dlc involving it if I can disprove it. What's wrong with that? And I don't see what's so unlikely about what I said at all logically it fits in just as well as the IT theory. And that breath he takes could've easily been a gasp of air from being revived by the machines he takes it in sharp and deep like it's his first breath you can easily interpret it that way.
Nowhere has anyone said it's fact, even the name THEORY should give that away. Nor do we say that they definitely intended it (it started out as an interpretation) however given so many hints Bioware could easily rewrite the ending without having to 'rewrite' the ending and losing face by making it an internal battle of the mind and then carrying on where Shepard wakes up after being hit.
If it wasn't their intention we've given the biggest get out of jail card you can think of rather than going 'here's an epilogue'
I largely focus on what they could do with the ending if they go the IDT route and still take into account your colour choice
http://social.biowar.../index/10350970
greywardencommander wrote...
ShepardTheHopeful wrote...
I truely don't understand why that of all things in the mass effect universe is the impossibility when it happened to him without the nanobots and implants working 24/7 now they are working at peak condition and doing everything in their power to keep shepard alive. Maybe that breath was a breath of coming back and they NEVER tell you just how long Shepard is down there he could've easily fell anywhere that had concrete there's no actual proof he falls in London maybe soldiers can't find him because the majority of the ground forces are already dead. There are many reasons it could work if it's worked before unlike Shepard being indoctrinated which has never happened before but you can theorize it happened before just like I can theorize Shepard could survive the fall. Stranger things happen in Sci-fi
Where else could he have fallen that the same would not have happened - crushed, splat, the only thing anywhere near him is the Citadel and that's just gone bye bye.
As for 'he's never been indoctrinated before' we're not saying he does become indoctrinated (if he destroys) it's the final fight of the battle of his mind in the last 10 minutes that if you choose destroy HE WINS. The ongoing having to resist indoctrination given all the exposure in all three games is hardly 'impossible'.
I'm not arguing with the fact that you can theorize every bit as much as we can but I don't recall magic cybernetics enabling someone to fall thousands of miles and survive mentioned in the universe. Or even ones that magically revive you after you're dead. You'd think Shepard being fitted with them might have been hinted at or mentioned...just the once.
I do however recall exposure to reapers and other artifacts that could over time be indoctrinating Shepard that he's been able to resist and fight off until he's at his weakest after the harbinger attack and plenty of nods to the ability to resist it due to his interaction with Shiala & the Thorian (the former resisting because of the latter and her mind meld with Shepard), the Rachni Queen (who resisted it twice) and the fact Saren and Benezia temporarily threw it off means a stronger mind perhaps due to his cybernetics, exposure to the Thorian, his exposure to the prothean beam and sheer determination. Liara says with the prothean beam (reaper technology as well perhaps) - it would have destroyed a lesser mind hinting that maybe just maybe Shepard can beat indoctrination too.
In short whilst a theory it has basis purely on what's happened in the series, magic cybernetics that allow you to survive an explosion obliterating most things and a fall from space to some sort of planet, I don't remember being mentioned.
It is a THEORY we never say it happened the endings may be exactly as they are
greywardencommander wrote...
greywardencommander wrote...
ShepardTheHopeful wrote...
titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...
ShepardTheHopeful wrote...
I truely don't understand why that of all things in the mass effect universe is the impossibility when it happened to him without the nanobots and implants working 24/7 now they are working at peak condition and doing everything in their power to keep shepard alive. Maybe that breath was a breath of coming back and they NEVER tell you just how long Shepard is down there he could've easily fell anywhere that had concrete there's no actual proof he falls in London maybe soldiers can't find him because the majority of the ground forces are already dead. There are many reasons it could work if it's worked before unlike Shepard being indoctrinated which has never happened before but you can theorize it happened before just like I can theorize Shepard could survive the fall. Stranger things happen in Sci-fi
I think it's funny that you, along with more than half of BSN, would try this hard to disprove this theory simply because you WANT to be mad at bioware.
...I'm not mad at bioware in the least. I got the ending yeah it was bad. Really bad but I still loved the game. The ending wasn't great, a few things weren't but I bought and played it loved it til that part and played it again. It's this theory that I just don't believe in. You guys treat it like it's the definite and makes the most sense. I see it a diifferent way so I'm debating it. I'm not judging or trolling anyones opinion. I just truely don't believe that the indoctrination theory is right and I don't want bioware to make a dlc involving it if I can disprove it. What's wrong with that? And I don't see what's so unlikely about what I said at all logically it fits in just as well as the IT theory. And that breath he takes could've easily been a gasp of air from being revived by the machines he takes it in sharp and deep like it's his first breath you can easily interpret it that way.
Nowhere has anyone said it's fact, even the name THEORY should give that away. Nor do we say that they definitely intended it (it started out as an interpretation) however given so many hints Bioware could easily rewrite the ending without having to 'rewrite' the ending and losing face by making it an internal battle of the mind and then carrying on where Shepard wakes up after being hit.
If it wasn't their intention we've given the biggest get out of jail card you can think of rather than going 'here's an epilogue'
I largely focus on what they could do with the ending if they go the IDT route and still take into account your colour choice
http://social.biowar.../index/10350970
Still no reply?
Modifié par titusrsoooooo1337, 23 mars 2012 - 01:21 .
you're not alone, i've been reading this thread since it came out, i read the newest pages when ever i get a chance, but i havn't realy added anyhing to it:?greywardencommander wrote...
I feel alone on this page (bumbing up the thread because...well because)
greywardencommander wrote...
I feel alone on this page (bumbing up the thread because...well because)
ShepardTheHopeful wrote...
I truely don't understand why that of all things in the mass effect universe is the impossibility when it happened to him without the nanobots and implants working 24/7 now they are working at peak condition and doing everything in their power to keep shepard alive. Maybe that breath was a breath of coming back and they NEVER tell you just how long Shepard is down there he could've easily fell anywhere that had concrete there's no actual proof he falls in London maybe soldiers can't find him because the majority of the ground forces are already dead. There are many reasons it could work if it's worked before unlike Shepard being indoctrinated which has never happened before but you can theorize it happened before just like I can theorize Shepard could survive the fall. Stranger things happen in Sci-fi
VonJedi1 wrote...
ShepardTheHopeful wrote...
I truely don't understand why that of all things in the mass effect universe is the impossibility when it happened to him without the nanobots and implants working 24/7 now they are working at peak condition and doing everything in their power to keep shepard alive. Maybe that breath was a breath of coming back and they NEVER tell you just how long Shepard is down there he could've easily fell anywhere that had concrete there's no actual proof he falls in London maybe soldiers can't find him because the majority of the ground forces are already dead. There are many reasons it could work if it's worked before unlike Shepard being indoctrinated which has never happened before but you can theorize it happened before just like I can theorize Shepard could survive the fall. Stranger things happen in Sci-fi
So let me get this straight, you are saying he would survive the fall through atmo, because of the synthetic implants Cerberus put in him, that these would keep him alive and that's how he took the breath?
Or are you completely forgetting the choice to get the taking breath scene is destroy, which DESTROY's all synthetic forms including those implanted into Shepard.
Indoctrination theory makes A LOT more sense than this, and I can't see Bioware going in any other direction with this, the writing at the end was bad if it was real, genius if it was in his head.
Modifié par greywardencommander, 23 mars 2012 - 01:26 .
VonJedi1 wrote...
ShepardTheHopeful wrote...
I truely don't understand why that of all things in the mass effect universe is the impossibility when it happened to him without the nanobots and implants working 24/7 now they are working at peak condition and doing everything in their power to keep shepard alive. Maybe that breath was a breath of coming back and they NEVER tell you just how long Shepard is down there he could've easily fell anywhere that had concrete there's no actual proof he falls in London maybe soldiers can't find him because the majority of the ground forces are already dead. There are many reasons it could work if it's worked before unlike Shepard being indoctrinated which has never happened before but you can theorize it happened before just like I can theorize Shepard could survive the fall. Stranger things happen in Sci-fi
So let me get this straight, you are saying he would survive the fall through atmo, because of the synthetic implants Cerberus put in him, that these would keep him alive and that's how he took the breath?
Or are you completely forgetting the choice to get the taking breath scene is destroy, which DESTROY's all synthetic forms including those implanted into Shepard.
Indoctrination theory makes A LOT more sense than this, and I can't see Bioware going in any other direction with this, the writing at the end was bad if it was real, genius if it was in his head.
Modifié par ShepardTheHopeful, 23 mars 2012 - 01:30 .
ShepardTheHopeful wrote...
Didn't realize we were still having the conversation It was me vs like 6 people lol. Well I can understand why exactly you guys favor this theory but I'm still just not convinced I see it a different way that Shepard did survive and not matter what he was suppose to represent the union between synthetics and organics. You chose synthesize everyone becomes like you, you pick control you control the reapers to help rather than destroy you pick destroy you prove organics and synthetics can combine to defeat a common evil and that like anything else they are a race. Similar to Geth yes Legion you have a soul. Etc. I like my theory I think i'll just call it the union theory the idea of Shepard evolution rather than indoctrination. I can argue back and forth forever but I like my theory more and I'll stick to it.
ShepardTheHopeful wrote...
I truely don't understand why that of all things in the mass effect universe is the impossibility when it happened to him without the nanobots and implants working 24/7 now they are working at peak condition and doing everything in their power to keep shepard alive. Maybe that breath was a breath of coming back and they NEVER tell you just how long Shepard is down there he could've easily fell anywhere that had concrete there's no actual proof he falls in London maybe soldiers can't find him because the majority of the ground forces are already dead. There are many reasons it could work if it's worked before unlike Shepard being indoctrinated which has never happened before but you can theorize it happened before just like I can theorize Shepard could survive the fall. Stranger things happen in Sci-fi
Maybe they wanted to give their audience the indoctrination experience...If the indoctrination theory was correct why hasnt Bioware hinted at it? Is it because they want to make DLC and more money? Good PR?
ShepardTheHopeful wrote...
Didn't realize we were still having the conversation It was me vs like 6 people lol. Well I can understand why exactly you guys favor this theory but I'm still just not convinced I see it a different way that Shepard did survive or rather he died and was revived by the synthetic upgrades, I think Bioware wanted Shepard to represent the union between synthetics and organics. It's in his name and the grandfather and son call him "The Shepard" which could also be seen as the telling of a prophet or messaih. Shepard could easily have been this no matter what you chose the idea was to save humanity. You chose synthesize everyone becomes like you, you pick control you control the reapers to help rather than destroy you pick destroy you prove organics and synthetics can combine to defeat a common evil and that like anything else they are a race. Similar to Geth yes Legion you have a soul. Etc. I like my theory I think i'll just call it the union theory the idea of Shepard evolution rather than indoctrination. I can argue back and forth forever but I like my theory more and I'll stick to it.
Modifié par greywardencommander, 23 mars 2012 - 01:37 .
Bill Casey wrote...
Maybe they wanted to give their audience the indoctrination experience...If the indoctrination theory was correct why hasnt Bioware hinted at it? Is it because they want to make DLC and more money? Good PR?
For that, they can't really tell you what happened...
It seems they expected lots of speculation, but not the level of backlash...
Modifié par Charger79, 23 mars 2012 - 01:46 .
greywardencommander wrote...
ShepardTheHopeful wrote...
I truely don't understand why that of all things in the mass effect universe is the impossibility when it happened to him without the nanobots and implants working 24/7 now they are working at peak condition and doing everything in their power to keep shepard alive. Maybe that breath was a breath of coming back and they NEVER tell you just how long Shepard is down there he could've easily fell anywhere that had concrete there's no actual proof he falls in London maybe soldiers can't find him because the majority of the ground forces are already dead. There are many reasons it could work if it's worked before unlike Shepard being indoctrinated which has never happened before but you can theorize it happened before just like I can theorize Shepard could survive the fall. Stranger things happen in Sci-fi
Going to give you my reply again as you're still ignoring me (this is the 5th time I think)
Where else could he have fallen that the same would not have happened - crushed, splat, the only thing anywhere near him is the Citadel and that's just gone bye bye.
Throw in the fact that the only time they show him alive when you hit destroy and it's the option that DESTROYS ALL SYNTHETICS and that includes all those magical implants so he doesn't have them when he hits the ground thus they can't revive him
As for 'he's never been indoctrinated before' we're not saying he does become indoctrinated (if he destroys) it's the final fight of the battle of his mind in the last 10 minutes that if you choose destroy HE WINS. The ongoing having to resist indoctrination given all the exposure in all three games is hardly 'impossible'.
I'm not arguing with the fact that you can theorize every bit as much as we can but I don't recall magic cybernetics enabling someone to fall thousands of miles and survive mentioned in the universe. Or even ones that magically revive you after you're dead. You'd think Shepard being fitted with them might have been hinted at or mentioned...just the once.
I do however recall exposure to reapers and other artifacts that could over time be indoctrinating Shepard that he's been able to resist and fight off until he's at his weakest after the harbinger attack and plenty of nods to the ability to resist it due to his interaction with Shiala & the Thorian (the former resisting because of the latter and her mind meld with Shepard), the Rachni Queen (who resisted it twice) and the fact Saren and Benezia temporarily threw it off means a stronger mind perhaps due to his cybernetics, exposure to the Thorian, his exposure to the prothean beam and sheer determination. Liara says with the prothean beam (reaper technology as well perhaps) - it would have destroyed a lesser mind hinting that maybe just maybe Shepard can beat indoctrination too.
In short whilst a theory it has basis purely on what's happened in the series, magic cybernetics that allow you to survive an explosion obliterating most things and a fall from space to some sort of planet, I don't remember being mentioned.
It is a THEORY we never say it happened the endings may be exactly as they are
, there is nothing more on that topic to discuss for now. It's time to just move on with the thread and get back on track.
if that's what they went for and that means say 'The Shepard' is waking up in the Stargazer's era they went about it completely wrongDein Justin wrote...
it would be ironic though...if somehow Shepard was spaced again from the Citadel explosion...put in stasis mode (like how it was in ME:Redemption) and somehow revived in the midst of rubbles (somewhere along the century war against the Reapers)...kinda like how Javik gasped upon waking up after 50,000 years of stasis.
Modifié par greywardencommander, 23 mars 2012 - 01:40 .
Modifié par ShepardTheHopeful, 23 mars 2012 - 01:45 .
ShepardTheHopeful wrote...
I wasn't ignoring you i just wasn't looking at the forum went to go do something else just happened to check back and saw all this it's a lot to read. And his implants are mentioned various times as is just how bad Shepard looked. Not to mention they look at the studies on the raid of Cerberus (or at least you can if you want) and they explain more about Shepard's condition they have a whole cut scene about it. And the specifically mention the synthetic attachments as well. I'm still not convinced the citadel was fully destroyed that explosion was from the crucible not the citadel I admit it took heavy damage but there was never any serious mention of what happened nor do you see the thing actually fully destroyed hell 3 of the arms are left in tact. I'm not saying indoctrination was impossible..in the first game. I just believe his synthetics could be interrupting the process,
they described indoctrination as Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods.
Shepard has billions of credits of experimental nano bites and implants in his head he's died once, been worked over mentally by the Protheans, and even a few times by the Asari with things like the Cipher and Liara trying to make more sense of the visions. Is it so far fetched to believe one of these if not all these factors that push Shepard's brain past that of normal means could resist the indoctrination. It would sure as hell explain better to me why he was never indoctrinated rather than an entire fantasy scenario be created for Shepard when no one else has been effected to that degree I've never seen a description anywhere in mass effect where some giant scene took place in their minds. I've seen shared memories, the screeching, and the assuming control. Those I get but never illusions of that degree.
Modifié par greywardencommander, 23 mars 2012 - 01:49 .
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