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[FellishBeast]

halbert986 wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

On my second playthrough and during the Palaven mission, Shepard says something along the lines of "James, is that you breathing so heavily?" And he says "Yeah, the atmosphere is thinner (I think he said thinner) than I'm used to." Sorry, I can't remember word for word, but I think you get the idea. Just wondering if there's any significance to that, since you are forced to have him during that exact moment for that mission, so you'll always hear this. He's the one that mentioned the "humming," too. I'm reaching here, but it just struck me as an odd thing to say.

he says that because the atmosphere is thinner. That's pretty much it. Thin atmosphere = less oxygen, makes breathing harder.

I hope and pray this theory is right.

I understand that, but why did Shepard have to ask? Shepard is a human, too, so wouldn't he be experiencing the same thing?

[greywardencommander]

policenauts wrote...

just found something: in the scene when javik is first on the normandy he touches shepard to sense him.

javik then says: "i can sense fear in you. anxiety and distress. the reapers are winning."

that /could/ be a hint that the reapers are winning the indoctrination. so /maybe/ javik sensed it in shepard.

That's what I'd take it to mean

[FellishBeast]

greywardencommander wrote...

policenauts wrote...

just found something: in the scene when javik is first on the normandy he touches shepard to sense him.

javik then says: "i can sense fear in you. anxiety and distress. the reapers are winning."

that /could/ be a hint that the reapers are winning the indoctrination. so /maybe/ javik sensed it in shepard.

That's what I'd take it to mean

I'd love it to mean that, but why would he be so ambiguous about it?

[greywardencommander]

FellishBeast wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

policenauts wrote...

just found something: in the scene when javik is first on the normandy he touches shepard to sense him.

javik then says: "i can sense fear in you. anxiety and distress. the reapers are winning."

that /could/ be a hint that the reapers are winning the indoctrination. so /maybe/ javik sensed it in shepard.

That's what I'd take it to mean

I'd love it to mean that, but why would he be so ambiguous about it?

haha sorry I mean I'd take it to mean the indoctrination theory (and a subtle hint) not Javik literally means the indoctrination (or maybe he even does but whatever),

saying it with regards to the Reapers in the War makes little sense imo because of course they're winning they're f-ing everybody up

Modifié par greywardencommander, 23 mars 2012 - 08:45 .

[sgreco1970]

FugitiveMind wrote...

I certainly hope it was a hallucination...

Otherwise I just basically played "3 Card Monte" with a dream kid who glows in the dark and lost 200 hours of my life...

it was. You only fought the reapers in your mind, fighting to control yourself, to survive their final attack against you personally. If you chose to destroy the reapers, yo broke their control and woke up in the rubble of london.

the final battle is yet to come.

[greywardencommander]

Only one comment on my 1m1 and 8m8 stuff, I thought more might say why they liked it or pick it apart, doing neither seems odd based on the trend that normally happens lol

[CitadelSurfer]

LadyVakarian wrote...

Ukomba wrote...
It's there on the path leading up to the console as well, before opening the arms.

Alsot there are massive holes in that PAth over the casm you can simply walk across like it's solid.  Shot at it to see if there might be glass, but the shot goes clean through.

If it helps, here are screens of both ME1's 1M1 on the HUMAN area (not citadel) and ME3's Walk to the Control Panel:
ME1


ME3


Just for clarification for those who are still confused!  

EDIT: Sorry guys but it looks a lot like the citadel in that ME1 screen. Anyone know EXACTLY where this shot was taken?

Guys I have a theory about the 1M1 thing. If my details are correct the first screenshot is from the end of ME1 right? And the 2nd is the end of ME3. 

Shepard has only been on to the citadel outside platform once as seen in ME1 ending, and if he is hallucinating at the end of ME3 he could well have just remembered the 1M1 details on the citadel at the end of ME1 and just pictured it in his head at the end of ME3. I'm guessing that the most far-fetched thing shepard has seen that has something to do with the reapers is stepping out of that elevator to fight towards Sovereign. And well because he is in the rubble at earth his mind is thinking about the reapers, so picturing these kind of structures and the numbering would seem very logical as well as the whole shadow broker base and other weird structures that stuck out in his mind, ala collector base. 

I have probably worded that above quite badly but if anyone gets what I mean then I'm happy. Point is, Shep is making stuff up that is familiar to him in his brain and the only part of the citadel which involves the reapers was from ME1 ending and a lot of the structures are similar if you compare the two endings.

[Denvian]

greywardencommander wrote...

Only one comment on my 1m1 and 8m8 stuff, I thought more might say why they liked it or pick it apart, doing neither seems odd based on the trend that normally happens lol

It was quite a heady post really.  It certainly was interesting and I wonder if they intended that.  

Hard to use it as evidence though because it is so complicated and deep

Modifié par Denvian, 23 mars 2012 - 08:49 .

[halbert986]

FellishBeast wrote...

halbert986 wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

On my second playthrough and during the Palaven mission, Shepard says something along the lines of "James, is that you breathing so heavily?" And he says "Yeah, the atmosphere is thinner (I think he said thinner) than I'm used to." Sorry, I can't remember word for word, but I think you get the idea. Just wondering if there's any significance to that, since you are forced to have him during that exact moment for that mission, so you'll always hear this. He's the one that mentioned the "humming," too. I'm reaching here, but it just struck me as an odd thing to say.

he says that because the atmosphere is thinner. That's pretty much it. Thin atmosphere = less oxygen, makes breathing harder.

I hope and pray this theory is right.

I understand that, but why did Shepard have to ask? Shepard is a human, too, so wouldn't he be experiencing the same thing?

I suppose. Who knows? I think they just put it in there to hit us in the face with "Hey this moon has an atmoshpere that's why you're not wearing helmets"

[Denvian]

CitadelSurfer wrote...

Guys I have a theory about the 1M1 thing. If my details are correct the first screenshot is from the end of ME1 right? And the 2nd is the end of ME3. 

Shepard has only been on to the citadel outside platform once as seen in ME1 ending, and if he is hallucinating at the end of ME3 he could well have just remembered the 1M1 details on the citadel at the end of ME1 and just pictured it in his head at the end of ME3. I'm guessing that the most far-fetched thing shepard has seen that has something to do with the reapers is stepping out of that elevator to fight towards Sovereign. And well because he is in the rubble at earth his mind is thinking about the reapers, so picturing these kind of structures and the numbering would seem very logical as well as the whole shadow broker base and other weird structures that stuck out in his mind, ala collector base. 

I have probably worded that above quite badly but if anyone gets what I mean then I'm happy. Point is, Shep is making stuff up that is familiar to him in his brain and the only part of the citadel which involves the reapers was from ME1 ending and a lot of the structures are similar if you compare the two endings.

That is why we are pointing it out.  It is simularly why there are bits of the shadow broker ship and collector base that make up the ending area.

 It was just another example we were pointing out of things being in places they should not be because it is a hallucination

[Erethrian]

CitadelSurfer wrote...

...

Guys I have a theory about the 1M1 thing. If my details are correct the first screenshot is from the end of ME1 right? And the 2nd is the end of ME3. 

Shepard has only been on to the citadel outside platform once as seen in ME1 ending, and if he is hallucinating at the end of ME3 he could well have just remembered the 1M1 details on the citadel at the end of ME1 and just pictured it in his head at the end of ME3. I'm guessing that the most far-fetched thing shepard has seen that has something to do with the reapers is stepping out of that elevator to fight towards Sovereign. And well because he is in the rubble at earth his mind is thinking about the reapers, so picturing these kind of structures and the numbering would seem very logical as well as the whole shadow broker base and other weird structures that stuck out in his mind, ala collector base. 

I have probably worded that above quite badly but if anyone gets what I mean then I'm happy. Point is, Shep is making stuff up that is familiar to him in his brain and the only part of the citadel which involves the reapers was from ME1 ending and a lot of the structures are similar if you compare the two endings.

I get your point, and it's quite possible. If this is Shepard's mind then he could be remembering the 1M1 from ME1.

[CitadelSurfer]

Denvian wrote...

CitadelSurfer wrote...

Guys I have a theory about the 1M1 thing. If my details are correct the first screenshot is from the end of ME1 right? And the 2nd is the end of ME3. 

Shepard has only been on to the citadel outside platform once as seen in ME1 ending, and if he is hallucinating at the end of ME3 he could well have just remembered the 1M1 details on the citadel at the end of ME1 and just pictured it in his head at the end of ME3. I'm guessing that the most far-fetched thing shepard has seen that has something to do with the reapers is stepping out of that elevator to fight towards Sovereign. And well because he is in the rubble at earth his mind is thinking about the reapers, so picturing these kind of structures and the numbering would seem very logical as well as the whole shadow broker base and other weird structures that stuck out in his mind, ala collector base. 

I have probably worded that above quite badly but if anyone gets what I mean then I'm happy. Point is, Shep is making stuff up that is familiar to him in his brain and the only part of the citadel which involves the reapers was from ME1 ending and a lot of the structures are similar if you compare the two endings.

That is why we are pointing it out.  It is simularly why there are bits of the shadow broker ship and collector base that make up the ending area.

 It was just another example we were pointing out of things being in places they should not be because it is a hallucination

Yeah I know you guys were discussing that the ME3 ending is made up of shadow broker base, collector base, and all that. I was just pointing out that the ME1 1M1 symbols from the end of the game could quite easily be something else that stuck in shepards mind regarding the reapers for him to conjure it up at the end of ME3. I read through the posts and I couldn't see anyone who had mentioned that little detail.

If so then my apologies!

Roll on April  

[FellishBeast]

Denvian wrote...

CitadelSurfer wrote...

Guys I have a theory about the 1M1 thing. If my details are correct the first screenshot is from the end of ME1 right? And the 2nd is the end of ME3. 

Shepard has only been on to the citadel outside platform once as seen in ME1 ending, and if he is hallucinating at the end of ME3 he could well have just remembered the 1M1 details on the citadel at the end of ME1 and just pictured it in his head at the end of ME3. I'm guessing that the most far-fetched thing shepard has seen that has something to do with the reapers is stepping out of that elevator to fight towards Sovereign. And well because he is in the rubble at earth his mind is thinking about the reapers, so picturing these kind of structures and the numbering would seem very logical as well as the whole shadow broker base and other weird structures that stuck out in his mind, ala collector base. 

I have probably worded that above quite badly but if anyone gets what I mean then I'm happy. Point is, Shep is making stuff up that is familiar to him in his brain and the only part of the citadel which involves the reapers was from ME1 ending and a lot of the structures are similar if you compare the two endings.

That is why we are pointing it out.  It is simularly why there are bits of the shadow broker ship and collector base that make up the ending area.

 It was just another example we were pointing out of things being in places they should not be because it is a hallucination

Has anyone posted pics comparing the Collector's base and Shadow Broker ship parts yet? I've yet to see them.

[Apest]

Please Read THIS
http://uninhibitedan.../mind-holy-fuck

I WANT TO BELIEVE. We can not judge so fast Bioware. They may have created something great with this ending. Maybe Mass Effet 4 introduce Shepard as a villain like the Saren in ME1 and a new character will fight him and the Reapers, I do not know. We only know that the end was completely open, full of holes.
But think why Bioware chose to end this trilogy, this way?
I was furious when I finish the game, but when I went looking for answers I found something in the theory of indoctrination that I can accept. And that makes perfect sense, we can seethat the dev team thought hard about this, is clear to me that they left clues. The game does not ending yet. We just saw the point of view of Shepard, and he had no way of knowing what was being indoctrinated, property as well as we could not know that.
If you stop to think Bioware may have created something so big that comes out of the virtual world and comes into our minds in a way that we just stuck looking for answers.

But until we have a proper announcement of Bioware, we can only speculate.But if this was a marketing strategy from Bioware, I can say that they failed. LOL

[Denvian]

CitadelSurfer wrote...

Denvian wrote...

CitadelSurfer wrote...

Guys I have a theory about the 1M1 thing. If my details are correct the first screenshot is from the end of ME1 right? And the 2nd is the end of ME3. 

Shepard has only been on to the citadel outside platform once as seen in ME1 ending, and if he is hallucinating at the end of ME3 he could well have just remembered the 1M1 details on the citadel at the end of ME1 and just pictured it in his head at the end of ME3. I'm guessing that the most far-fetched thing shepard has seen that has something to do with the reapers is stepping out of that elevator to fight towards Sovereign. And well because he is in the rubble at earth his mind is thinking about the reapers, so picturing these kind of structures and the numbering would seem very logical as well as the whole shadow broker base and other weird structures that stuck out in his mind, ala collector base. 

I have probably worded that above quite badly but if anyone gets what I mean then I'm happy. Point is, Shep is making stuff up that is familiar to him in his brain and the only part of the citadel which involves the reapers was from ME1 ending and a lot of the structures are similar if you compare the two endings.

That is why we are pointing it out.  It is simularly why there are bits of the shadow broker ship and collector base that make up the ending area.

 It was just another example we were pointing out of things being in places they should not be because it is a hallucination

Yeah I know you guys were discussing that the ME3 ending is made up of shadow broker base, collector base, and all that. I was just pointing out that the ME1 1M1 symbols from the end of the game could quite easily be something else that stuck in shepards mind regarding the reapers for him to conjure it up at the end of ME3. I read through the posts and I couldn't see anyone who had mentioned that little detail.

If so then my apologies!

Roll on April  

no worries... there is a lot to sift through... they did mention it but it was very far far ways back and probably needed to be reiterated.  

Spread the word of IT to the people!!

Modifié par Denvian, 23 mars 2012 - 09:02 .

[Denvian]

Apest wrote...

Please Read THIS
http://uninhibitedan.../mind-holy-fuck

I WANT TO BELIEVE. We can not judge so fast Bioware. They may have created something great with this ending. Maybe Mass Effet 4 introduce Shepard as a villain like the Saren in ME1 and a new character will fight him and the Reapers, I do not know. We only know that the end was completely open, full of holes.
But think why Bioware chose to end this trilogy, this way?
I was furious when I finish the game, but when I went looking for answers I found something in the theory of indoctrination that I can accept. And that makes perfect sense, we can seethat the dev team thought hard about this, is clear to me that they left clues. The game does not ending yet. We just saw the point of view of Shepard, and he had no way of knowing what was being indoctrinated, property as well as we could not know that.
If you stop to think Bioware may have created something so big that comes out of the virtual world and comes into our minds in a way that we just stuck looking for answers.

But until we have a proper announcement of Bioware, we can only speculate.But if this was a marketing strategy from Bioware, I can say that they failed. LOL

Well that is some sexy formatting 

[Rob Psyence]

FellishBeast wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

policenauts wrote...

just found something: in the scene when javik is first on the normandy he touches shepard to sense him.

javik then says: "i can sense fear in you. anxiety and distress. the reapers are winning."

that /could/ be a hint that the reapers are winning the indoctrination. so /maybe/ javik sensed it in shepard.

That's what I'd take it to mean

I'd love it to mean that, but why would he be so ambiguous about it?

Well to look at it in the context of the situation, Javik recently just learned English by touching him the first time, otherwise the translators wouldn't likely understand Prothean language. So the ambiguity could just be the fact he is expecting shepard to understand, not knowing he needs to be more specific lol

[Intensity Penguin]

I have heard people attempting to debunk the Shepard's Indoctrination Theory by saying that even if Shepard wakes up in London, Harbinger will be able to destroy him with ease. However, you may recall that Saren dying in the end of the original Mass Effect weakened Sovereign, opening him up for defeat, as Saren was his 'Avatar' because Sovereign was so deeply invested in Saren, forcing him to gain access to the Citadel. Also, Harbinger was utilizing the Collector General to carry out the harvest of the human race, and abandoned him at the moment before it died, potentially to prevent harm to himself. If these capital Reapers can invest themselves in humans so deeply, is it possible that perhaps death, as well as the overcoming of indoctrination could also harm them? So, if Shepard is in fact to Harbinger what Saren was to Sovereign, upon picking the 'Destroy' option, Shepard effectively overcomes Harbinger's indoctrination and leaves Harbinger in a weakened state. Then, in possible future DLC, we could continue the fight against a weakened Harbinger to take back Earth.

[Erethrian]

Intensity Penguin wrote...

I have heard people attempting to debunk the Shepard's Indoctrination Theory by saying that even if Shepard wakes up in London, Harbinger will be able to destroy him with ease. However, you may recall that Saren dying in the end of the original Mass Effect weakened Sovereign, opening him up for defeat, as Saren was his 'Avatar' because Sovereign was so deeply invested in Saren, forcing him to gain access to the Citadel. Also, Harbinger was utilizing the Collector General to carry out the harvest of the human race, and abandoned him at the moment before it died, potentially to prevent harm to himself. If these capital Reapers can invest themselves in humans so deeply, is it possible that perhaps death, as well as the overcoming of indoctrination could also harm them? So, if Shepard is in fact to Harbinger what Saren was to Sovereign, upon picking the 'Destroy' option, Shepard effectively overcomes Harbinger's indoctrination and leaves Harbinger in a weakened state. Then, in possible future DLC, we could continue the fight against a weakened Harbinger to take back Earth.

I thought that, but then I remember Hacket saying in the game that the reapers that have come seem to not have the same problem if someone beats indoctrination. Anyway I can't understand how the hell he knows that.... (Maybe it's a codex entry, not Hacket, can someone confirm one way or the other? Thanks )

Modifié par Erethrian, 23 mars 2012 - 09:07 .

[UrgentArchengel]

What Intensity Penguin said!

Modifié par UrgentArchengel, 23 mars 2012 - 09:07 .

[Iwillbeback]

Yeah I get it, the Reapers are using past memories from Shepard's memory to help to convince him to give into their wishes by choosing Synthesis/Control and the low rated Destroy where shepard dies.
Shepards dies because he wasn't strong enough and didn't have enough will power.
The shepard that lives is stronger because of the friends he made along the line and alliances he created.

[Rob Psyence]

Apest wrote...

snip

But until we have a proper announcement of Bioware, we can only speculate.But if this was a marketing strategy from Bioware, I can say that they failed. LOL

Did their marketing strategy fail if they were to do this? I'm not so sure. If they came out that this was the plan yeah sales dropped before but once they do that it'd be seen as a unique and innovative form of immersion, gaming news would spew it out everywhere and likely sales would steeply increase. providing the complete end were either an update or free dlc..if not then the sales would probably stay at the same rate.

[FellishBeast]

Rob Psyence wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

policenauts wrote...

just found something: in the scene when javik is first on the normandy he touches shepard to sense him.

javik then says: "i can sense fear in you. anxiety and distress. the reapers are winning."

that /could/ be a hint that the reapers are winning the indoctrination. so /maybe/ javik sensed it in shepard.

That's what I'd take it to mean

I'd love it to mean that, but why would he be so ambiguous about it?

Well to look at it in the context of the situation, Javik recently just learned English by touching him the first time, otherwise the translators wouldn't likely understand Prothean language. So the ambiguity could just be the fact he is expecting shepard to understand, not knowing he needs to be more specific lol

Don't get me wrong, I think the IDT is awesome, but this seems like a stretch to me, I don't think Javik would willingly continue to help an indoctrinated.

[Erethrian]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

What Intensity Penguin said!

I see what you did there


I thought you were supporting my point, haha. But not kidding, it's said in the game that the reapers on earth don't seem to have the problem sovereign had.

Modifié par Erethrian, 23 mars 2012 - 09:12 .

[RedrDog 2]

The Indoctrination Theory is a great idea, reading all of this really makes me feel better about the ending, here's hoping for a Mass Effect 4 so we can (As Bungie once said) "finish the fight" with the reapers.