57139 réponses à ce sujet

[JustAidan]

Ok I was just thinking logically for a second.

A lot of people are saying that Shepard just has to wake up and finish the fight if the Indoctrination theory is true.
Now going by the messages from Kaiden/Ashley on that iOS app about how they "Thought (they) might come down and see you today".

Judging from the implications the attack on the Citadel has already failed and it has been a number of days with Shepard either in hospital or under close supervision.

It may just be unwarrented hopefulness on my end but this may suggest that the DLC may rather more expansive then people think. If EA/Bioware are looking to make money on the DLC you may even expect several episodes to be published.

Aside: While normally I have terrible problems with companies withholding core game elements to sell them afterwards I would not mind in this case. Mass Effect 3 as it is now has a huge amount of high quality content in boxed copy so I probably wouldn't mind buying more of the same. However, I don't think many series would be able to take similar liberaties (I'm looking at your "To be continued" FFXIII-2<_<).

TrveOmegaSlayer wrote...

Sorry to not quote this right
____________________________________________
Also
an excellent find with Rhyth and the 1M1. Congratulations on solving
one of the biggest "what the hell's that?"s of this whole ordeal. It's
an ME1 model recycle... from the end of the Citadel. I realize I'm
biased but I think that just screams more evidence of Shepard piecing
the whole place today with crap he's seen from his past. I mean why else
would they import that model JUST to put it in a place where it
couldn't possibly be? Harbing--er, starchild specifically tells us no
organic being has EVER been there. The only conclusion I can see is that
they imported it just so it could look out of place.

You know,
this gives me an idea. I doubt it'd be true because it'd have been found
by now and it'd prove IT pretty much conclusively. But, LotSB isn't
canon. If you didn't do it, Shepard doesn't even know at first the Liara
is the Shadow Broker. So has anyone seen if the 2nd room in the
"Citadel", the one that we believe is an imitation of Shepard's mind of
the SB ship's engines with the sliding plates, is different if you're
playing a Shepard that didn't do LotSB?
______________________________________________________

Shepard got accustomed to build things in his head after the Geth Fighter mission
In that mission he clearly confute Legion that says they're showing a place that could look familiar.

Can't you buy a scale model of the Shadow Broker ship to make for your cabin . The place isn't different but since EA/Bioware are already assuming that Liara became the shadow broker they may just have assumed that most people have played it. Was there somewhere else in ME3 with loads of electricity, the geth ship maybe, could Shepard have seen it there again?

Modifié par JustAidan, 23 mars 2012 - 01:07 .

[III Achilles II]

http://www.facebook....eTrustInBioware

Trying to show support for the Bioware team! I know they probably could use a good sign that many fans out there still support them and their creative decisions!

[Denvian]

you think that this is a reference to being in a hospital?

[greywardencommander]

Denvian wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

Why do people keep telling me it's impossible to beat indoctrination? Surely if the developers intended it in the first place (as in the app, whether scrapped or not it was possible for him to beat it). Also lesser minds would have been destroyed by the Prothean beacon thus the precedent for him to have the power to do so is set...that alone is enough to convince me he can.
throw in a mind-meld with Shiala who thanks to the Thorian was able to recover from indoctrination and the fact he's just one tough S.O.B and I see no reason why not

Not even mentioning Saren who despite implants and beeing inside Sovreign for how long? Months? Still managed to break free and shoot himself. And Shepard only needs to resist Indoctrination long enough to end the Reaper threat then the signal they trasnmit should stop, right?

In the case of indoctrinated yes I'm saying 
Indoctrinated = can't be reversed (even if temporarily resisted to kill self or make a monologue or whatever)
Indoctrination process = can be beaten and resisted and that's what we're arguing happens to Shepard

I also keep using the example of Harry Potter, noone ran around telling him he hadn't survived the killing curse because no KNOWN person had before (a huge melodramatic exaggeration I know but stay with me) and the fact he's unique is what makes it possible. What's to say that's the case with Shepard, his unique experiences, personality etc make him able to resist.

I agree with that.

Indoctrinated = can't be reversed 

"Nonsense. You're only saying that because no one ever has."


Take a page from Westley

Things are only impossible until they are not!

Kind of like commander shepard coming back from the dead.

beating the indoctrination is ME3's Ilos and Omega Relay (something otherwise missing in ME3) i.e. doing the impossible

Modifié par greywardencommander, 23 mars 2012 - 01:29 .

[nyrocron]

Denvian wrote...

* img removd *

you think that this is a reference to being in a hospital?

As far as I remember this message has been attributed to a bug or something. If it is meant to be there and was coordinated with the BioWare team it might be a hint. But I would not count on that too much.

Modifié par nyrocron, 23 mars 2012 - 01:30 .

[greywardencommander]

nyrocron wrote...

Denvian wrote...

* img removd *

you think that this is a reference to being in a hospital?

As far as I remember this message has been attributed to a bug or something. If it is meant to be there and was coordinated with the BioWare team it might be a hint. But I would not count on that too much.

odd bug even if it is a bug...where would she be going down to see him, let alone where she'd need permission

Modifié par greywardencommander, 23 mars 2012 - 01:34 .

[Gernbuster]

CaptnZoricus wrote...

Denvian wrote...

I am kinda hoping that this rumor is true

http://www.gamefront...h-due-in-april/

Don't trade your disks in yet kiddies!

I don't believe it either, but it sounds EXTREMLY realistic to me. The guy who invented it had to be a brilliant faker, to post it. Even the picture is extremly well done....
I wouldn't be surprised if it is at least partially true, but Bioware negated it.

[Cucobr]

Denvian wrote...

IMAGE

you think that this is a reference to being in a hospital?

WOOOOOOOOOOOOW. We need to know more about this image ASAP.

Modifié par Cucobr, 23 mars 2012 - 01:39 .

[Denvian]

Gernbuster wrote...

CaptnZoricus wrote...

Denvian wrote...

I am kinda hoping that this rumor is true

http://www.gamefront...h-due-in-april/

Don't trade your disks in yet kiddies!

I don't believe it either, but it sounds EXTREMLY realistic to me. The guy who invented it had to be a brilliant faker, to post it. Even the picture is extremly well done....
I wouldn't be surprised if it is at least partially true, but Bioware negated it.

Sad

[nyrocron]

It might contain some truth but I don't expect it to be real.

("truth", hah! )

Modifié par nyrocron, 23 mars 2012 - 01:55 .

[greywardencommander]

 here's my reply based on what I said originally and edited to include what some of you said re. Thane etc

Arcian wrote...

OP, you can't "throw off" Indoctrination. The effect is permanent and can't be broken for more than a very short moment (few minutes at best).

we don't know that, we know indoctrination itself is supposedly absolute maybe but nowhere does it say the the process of attempting to indoctrinate someone can't be broken.

Also it only takes one to make it possible. i'm going to use Harry Potter as an example here, he survived the killing curse, the only person KNOWN to do so, nobody ran around telling him he hadn't survived it
(melodramatic and exaggerated I know) but his unique case made it possible. The same can be true of Shepard.

the fact that Shiala due to her exposure with the Thorian can (an exposure you gain through mind-meld) and the Rachni Queen (twice) mean's it can be beaten they are both completely free of it.


You can point to the fact they're unique but so is Shepard.


His mind wasn't destroyed by the Prothean beacon 'something that would destroy lesser minds', thus it is possible to assume he is a rare case that has the willpower to do it, it's already been alluded to.

His mind-meld with Shiala (who completely recovered) thus the Thorian effect adds to this thus destroy can lead to him beating it completely.

Add in the fact they wanted Shepard to become indoctrinated at some point (in the final app, regardless of whether that idea was scrapped the idea was there) they obviously had an idea of him beating it

I also say 'throw off' with regards to the other two because in my idea those 'few minutes at best' you refer to are enough to fight your squad mates and let them kill you, commit suicide or sabotage the crucible or whatever in the last minutes of the ending.

the point we're arguing indoctrination = perhaps can't be reversed, can't be resisted

process of being indoctrinated (i.e. prior to being fully controlled) = beatable and what Shepard is facing in IDT hallucination

I quote something in ME2

'They told me it was impossible to get to get to Ilos, too

Thane: 'A fair point. You've made a career out of doing the impossible.'

Also you imply

Indoctrinated (either the full indoctrination or the process prior to being indoctrinated)= can't be reversed  thus resisting is impossible

to take from the theme of Mass Effect regarding idea of ME1 (Ilos) and ME2 (Omega Relay) nothing is impossible and HOPE

"Nonsense. You're only saying that because no one ever has."

Beating indoctrination is ME3's Ilos and Omega Relay: doing the impossible (something otherwise missing in ME3) 

NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE

Kind of like Commander Shepard coming back from the dead.

Modifié par greywardencommander, 23 mars 2012 - 02:30 .

[NikolaiShade]

Hi, sorry if it's been posted before, but I came out with a couple of interesting things.
Shepard's eyes change in the control and syntheys endings and become identical to TIM's synthetic eyes.
Somebody pointed out the black tendrils (indoctrination attempt) as a proof of the impossibility of this theory. Wouldn't it be logical instead to make your enemy think he has won in order to take him off-guard?

On a side note, the more I think of this theory the more I believe we should look beyond the game itself. This kind of plot twist was present in Knights of the Old Republic and in a similar form in the teaser trailer for Mass Effect 2.

[Asuka Bianchini]

How is Shepard breathing without a helmet?
The last scene with the Catalyst... it is at the citadel... the citadel is in space... the area where your final decision happens is an open area (you can even see the reapers flying around and etc) , and no helmet.

[greywardencommander]

Asuka Bianchini wrote...

How is Shepard breathing without a helmet?
The last scene with the Catalyst... it is at the citadel... the citadel is in space... the area where your final decision happens is an open area (you can even see the reapers flying around and etc) , and no helmet.

another example we've said before that thay made a point of proving not possible in ME1 where you have to wear a helmet...it's either interesting & points to IDT (or some hallucination) or complete error

[Stigweird85]

Has anything new been brought up? Or just the same old info about IT?

[greywardencommander]

bigstig wrote...

Has anything new been brought up? Or just the same old info about IT?

same old, an IGN blog bit about IT and why it will be DLC giving real endings, that's about it really.

[nyrocron]

NikolaiShade wrote...

Wouldn't it be logical instead to make your enemy think he has won in order to take him off-guard?

Well that is what happens. We think we won (vs TIM) and are led to believe godchild.

Modifié par nyrocron, 23 mars 2012 - 02:39 .

[JustAidan]

greywardencommander wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

Denvian wrote...

* img removd *

you think that this is a reference to being in a hospital?

As far as I remember this message has been attributed to a bug or something. If it is meant to be there and was coordinated with the BioWare team it might be a hint. But I would not count on that too much.

odd bug even if it is a bug...where would she be going down to see him, let alone where she'd need permission

Yes it is a very odd statement, the only time that Shepard's movement is restricted somehow is before the game starts. Both Ashley and Kaiden state something to the affect that they haven't been in touch, added to that is the fact that neither trusted Shepard or were on friendly terms with him at the start of the game.

[Stigweird85]

cheers @greywardencommander,

I haven't been able to check as often as I would like and didn't fancy readings 15pages worth..

I don't mind back reading but I keep seeing something that screams answer me on it and I get as far as typing my response before I rememeber I'm still behind Doh!

[Catreina-JTV]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Rhyth wrote...

http://i214.photobuc...x/0688283a.jpg

So the 1M1 was in Mass Effect 1?

And on the Citadel no less.

[RorickHuon]

Gernbuster wrote...

CaptnZoricus wrote...

Denvian wrote...

I am kinda hoping that this rumor is true

http://www.gamefront...h-due-in-april/

Don't trade your disks in yet kiddies!

I don't believe it either, but it sounds EXTREMLY realistic to me. The guy who invented it had to be a brilliant faker, to post it. Even the picture is extremly well done....
I wouldn't be surprised if it is at least partially true, but Bioware negated it.

As much as I support the IT This picture has alot of questionable past. Asari Justicar is the specialty tree for Asari Adept no need to add a class apart from it, and Krogan Battle Master doesn't make much sense.
A couple of points hit me the other day that I thought you guys would enlighten me about. The box that Liara brings to you with info about the crucible, and reapers, it also has information about you. She went out of her way to leave information about your Shepard and spread them around the galaxy . Maybe that could have tied into the stargazer scene. Then again could be nothing.
Another thing I thought of (I don't know if it was discussed here or not) but what if after getting hit by Harby's beam, your team, amongst all the chaos manages to drag you to the rubble to hide you. And while they do this you are in Indoctrinion land. Depending on your choices you wake up to different senarios. Blah, I dont want this sounding anymore like crazy fanfiction. So Lets hear what you think ^^;

[Dwailing]

Catreina-JTV wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Rhyth wrote...

http://i214.photobuc...x/0688283a.jpg

So the 1M1 was in Mass Effect 1?

And on the Citadel no less.

I'll admit, even I, an ardent supporter of Indoc Theory, thought that that particular piece of "evidence" was grasping at straws.

[greywardencommander]

RorickHuon wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

CaptnZoricus wrote...

Denvian wrote...

I am kinda hoping that this rumor is true

http://www.gamefront...h-due-in-april/

Don't trade your disks in yet kiddies!

I don't believe it either, but it sounds EXTREMLY realistic to me. The guy who invented it had to be a brilliant faker, to post it. Even the picture is extremly well done....
I wouldn't be surprised if it is at least partially true, but Bioware negated it.

As much as I support the IT This picture has alot of questionable past. Asari Justicar is the specialty tree for Asari Adept no need to add a class apart from it, and Krogan Battle Master doesn't make much sense.
A couple of points hit me the other day that I thought you guys would enlighten me about. The box that Liara brings to you with info about the crucible, and reapers, it also has information about you. She went out of her way to leave information about your Shepard and spread them around the galaxy . Maybe that could have tied into the stargazer scene. Then again could be nothing.
Another thing I thought of (I don't know if it was discussed here or not) but what if after getting hit by Harby's beam, your team, amongst all the chaos manages to drag you to the rubble to hide you. And while they do this you are in Indoctrinion land. Depending on your choices you wake up to different senarios. Blah, I dont want this sounding anymore like crazy fanfiction. So Lets hear what you think ^^;

It does Liara wise, they could have got all their info regarding Shepard from that time-capsule. Doesn't explain anything, confirm or deny anything though. All we know is there are 'more stories' of The Shepard, seeing as if he's telling the story he's covered everything (including we'd have to assume DLC that aren't post-ending) so why are there more 'stories' unless it's post-ending :/

[greywardencommander]

Dwailing wrote...

Catreina-JTV wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Rhyth wrote...

http://i214.photobuc...x/0688283a.jpg

So the 1M1 was in Mass Effect 1?

And on the Citadel no less.

I'll admit, even I, an ardent supporter of Indoc Theory, thought that that particular piece of "evidence" was grasping at straws.

does that even include my idea on 1m1 and 8m8 and the messages regarding convergence and divergence? Or just the fact it could be re-used environment?

[Stigweird85]

Denvian wrote...

img removed

you think that this is a reference to being in a hospital?

Interesting but doesn't shine any light on the situation. As either
(a) Events did happen as we see them so either Shep on Citadel with all technology destroyed so no-one can get to him - certainlly not the normandy crew who were in a different solar system
( Events were an illusion - How did they get his body, where is he being treated? What happened to the threat.

A possible oversight from an ambitious app project(I love the feature in general - especially the codex codex)