57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Stigweird85]

i think that has been mentioned before but after 844 pages who can keep tracl.

[JustAidan]

Not me, way too much stuff in here.

Honestly, the stuff that has pushed me over into near certainty is that face that Mass Effect Facebook, twitter and PR people where all "wink wink did you think hard about what the endings were about?" even linking to this thread before IT built up momentum.

[Stigweird85]

Well Gamesradar now have an article saying how bad it would be if Bioware change a product due to fan feedback.

Although when you start your argumen:t

 I don’t know what the ending of Mass Effect 3 entails, and I don’t care. I haven’t even played Mass Effect 3 yet. Hell, I’m still working through the first one at the moment

Your argument is moot. The rest of the article basically reads as leave the job to the professionals and sounds more like the thoughts of a man frightened about his own job. We can't let someone else be creative, only we have the intellect to come up with something.}

IF he had even bothered to play or read the IT theory he'd see that our crowd sourced fiction(as he put it) is based on evidence that already existing in game. We are not just making this sh!t up. The community has created a plausible story based on the facts at hand. Had Bioware not included these clues I doubt the IT would have gained the momentum that it has

All these journalists seem to be forgetting the time honoured tradition of movie screeners where if an audience don't like the ending or even the whole film they change it.

Example in Sweet Home Alabama. Original ending Reece Witherspoon died after being struck by lightning, test audience didn't respond well to it so the ending was changed.

How many directors cuts of movies are released? It has already been mentioned that Sherlock Holmes was killed then brought back. It's not a new concept. It's not a dangerous precedent, if anything it should be applauded. Imagine a company who actively listens and responds to fans we can't have that now can we?

/end rant

Modifié par bigstig, 23 mars 2012 - 11:36 .

[Arian Dynas]

JustAidan wrote...

*snip*

Epilogues don't have to have audio, text and music or simply music and pictures/drawings would work fine. Baldur's Gate had some quite long epilogues all given in text form with music and I still remember to this day.
".....where hamsters are giants and men become legends" Kudos if you can tell me whose epilogue this is.

Ah, we are all heroes!, You and Boo and I! Hampsters and Rangers everywhere, REJOICE!

Anyway, so, what do people think about Meer weighing in?

I know there is alot of proof AND supporting evidence for the Indoctrination theory, but considering Meer is either in the dark/ not telling, along with one of the writers allegedly denying involvement, claiming the project manager and head writer wrote it on their own without input, I'm starting to feel my confidence sag.

What this says to me is a couple of things;

EIther Meer has yet to record any dialogue, and they are intentionally keeping him in the dark (possible), he is under NDA and is keeping mum on the subject (also possible)

Weekes is either lying about making the post to protect his job and Bioware is refusing to fire him so they don't confirm it, or he is on the level and the post was made by either an impostor, using a similar forum name, but seperate account, one deleted after the fact, or Weekes' account was hacked and someone posted trying to smear his good name.

In short, I don't know what to think anymore. The theory has too much supporting evidence to be dismissed or ignored, but I'm getting alot of mixed signals from Bioware, leaving me very confused.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 23 mars 2012 - 11:34 .

[comrade gando]

Is it just me or is like a truck ton of posters here like uber negative? Like glass half empty, as far as the ending to ME3. I mean I was like "wtf!!" also when I finished it, but after watching those indoctrination theory videos on youtube, it's like it all makes sense now, I mean there's evidence in that whole last 10 minutes just screaming "INDOCTRINATED!!!", but a lot of players still don't accept that.

I'm a believer now, bioware you sneaky devils, the fight isn't over, not by a long shot!!

[greywardencommander]

Erloeser wrote...

I had a theory about the ending and what 1M1 might possibly signify. It's a little long, so I'll start with the meat of this, and if you're interested you can
read deeper.

In musical scoring for a
film 1M1 is the annotation used for the very first piece, usually the
main title music (1 = First reel M = Music 1 = First Cue. For more info
you can google "1M1 cue"). If this is what the developers were going
for, then this fits well with the theme that the ending choice is part
of an indoctrinated or "mirrored" view. (Alternately it could signify a
new beginning/the story coming full circle).

Delving Deeper:

There
is a lot of evidence that something odd is going on with the final
decision. Whatever may be said about all of the theories floating
around, one thing that I feel was definitely an intentional twist was
the color coding.

Throughout all 3 games there has always been a
very deliberate pattern to the choices you make: 1st choice is the
paragon choice, color coded by blue, the 2nd choice (not always there)
would be a neutral choice, the 3rd choice is renegade, color coded red.

Here
we're given the control the reapers (TIM) option first, which would be
the more "renegade" option, and it is color coded blue. Secondly we can
unlock the "compromise" option in the middle, color coded green. Last we
get the more "paragon", "Anderson" option last which is to destroy the
reapers, and it is color coded red. Basically there's 0 chance that the
developers suddenly forgot the pattern that they used through 3 games.
Whatever people may speculate, this was done intentionally.

Additionally,
when the sequence with the ghost child starts, turn around and walk
backwards and you'll see 2 1M1s printed on the low wall back there. The
left one is printed "properly" the right one is backwards. Now when you see it mirrored in other places, it's true they might have just gotten a little lazy copy pasting it on either side of a hallway, but here they are in a line on a single wall, meaning that there was a higher chance that someone intentionally mirrored the image. Whatever you
think 1M1 stands for, if anything, that in and of itself is interesting.

Other Evidence of "Mirroring":

1) Even if you were a total paragon, upon coming back to the Citadel, you get back some glowing renegade scars.

2)
Visually there is a clear "mirror" divide with the whole setting, on the one side you've got
the Crucible/Earth forces, on the other you've got the
Citadel/Reapers/Ghost Child. You're standing just on the edge of the
latter side. Moreover, you're standing underneath the Citadel tower,
"upside down" looking at Earth above.

3) The ghost child's voice
is made up of 3 voices: the little boys in the center channel, with
male/female Shepherd voices more softly on the side channels, indicating
that this may be a reflection of his/her own consciousness.

Wrapping Up, Back to 1M1:

The
developers obviously put a lot of work into the music, especially for
this installment. In addition to getting a lot of good composers on this
thing, and adding a bunch of sound/music Easter eggs which I won't get
into, they clearly put a lot of thought into the score. If it's the case
that 1M1 is meant here in reference to the musical annotation, then it
fits well with the idea that everything is backwards in that scene, and
that the end is the beginning/the beginning is the end. In any event I
find it more compelling than the theories that it is supposed to be
optics or some sort of pseudo binary. Though of course there is the
chance that they were just re-using textures and it means nothing, but
that would be no fun.

Thanks.

given the audio easter eggs (posted one earlier in the thread regarding the one in the war room with the original ME1 music when you complete a mission because it's comforting and home etc, played only once in ME2 I believe when united with virmire survivor on Horizon and at poignant stages in ME3) I can believe that idea much more and that all this illusion stuff (indoctrination or otherwise) is deliberate because they enjoy the subtlety approach. There's no point shoving it in your face because where's the beauty in that, you don't notice it (on a conscious level) because Shepard doesn't - he is our vessel in the universe, thus it is only in the ending, in particular the secret ending based on destroy the 'renegade option' the only one that would end the reaper threat (the indoctrination).

Note in the dlc message it doesn't say's the Reaper's are defeated, no it is stated SPECIFICALLY the Reaper THREAT - e.g. that could be applied to one Reaper attack e.g. the Reaper threat on the Citadel or the Reaper threat on Virmire etc, could even say the reaper threat re. Sovereign i.e. that particular Reaper threat THUS this implies that the threat (indoctrination) is ended not the Reapers themselves

[Denvian]

comrade gando wrote...

Is it just me or is like a truck ton of posters here like uber negative? Like glass half empty, as far as the ending to ME3. I mean I was like "wtf!!" also when I finished it, but after watching those indoctrination theory videos on youtube, it's like it all makes sense now, I mean there's evidence in that whole last 10 minutes just screaming "INDOCTRINATED!!!", but a lot of players still don't accept that.

I'm a believer now, bioware you sneaky devils, the fight isn't over, not by a long shot!!

I thought this was pretty funny too.  When I got that moment of, "It all makes sense".  I thought it was genius! of course there are a lot of poeple who said, "even if IT is true it still means that we were lied to and that it is not a complete game". 

Even some guys at IGN were like, "I don't see how IT can not be true but I am still mad that we did not get a complete game!"  

Of course they went on to say they would be fine if the end was a free DLC that they always planned.

Modifié par Denvian, 23 mars 2012 - 11:41 .

[JustAidan]

Arian Dynas wrote...

JustAidan wrote...

*snip*

Epilogues don't have to have audio, text and music or simply music and pictures/drawings would work fine. Baldur's Gate had some quite long epilogues all given in text form with music and I still remember to this day.
".....where hamsters are giants and men become legends" Kudos if you can tell me whose epilogue this is.

Ah, we are all heroes!, You and Boo and I! Hampsters and Rangers everywhere, REJOICE!

Anyway, so, what do people think about Meer weighing in?

I know there is alot of proof AND supporting evidence for the Indoctrination theory, but considering Meer is either in the dark/ not telling, along with one of the writers allegedly denying involvement, claiming the project manager and head writer wrote it on their own without input, I'm starting to feel my confidence sag.

What this says to me is a couple of things;

EIther Meer has yet to record any dialogue, and they are intentionally keeping him in the dark (possible), he is under NDA and is keeping mum on the subject (also possible)

Weekes is either lying about making the post to protect his job and Bioware is refusing to fire him so they don't confirm it, or he is on the level and the post was made by either an impostor, using a similar forum name, but seperate account, one deleted after the fact, or Weekes' account was hacked and someone posted trying to smear his good name.

In short, I don't know what to think anymore. The theory has too much supporting evidence to be dismissed or ignored, but I'm getting alot of mixed signals from Bioware, leaving me very confused.

Kudo's on Minsc and Boo.

There are so many fake posts, hacking accounts and even scams based around ME3 endings (seriously!) I wouldn't trust anything right now outside offical channels right now.

As the PR people have admitted they are still under NDA for awhile longer it is very likely everyone else is too.

Look at it this way, as long as they don't confirm it they get a lot more PR attention even from websites not normally big on games, forbes for example.

[Redbelle]

I think the Shepard's united front has pretty much given it all the clarification it needs. It was all a dream.

I read somewhere that the ending was worked on outside of the usual team of script writers. The source of the information is suspect and thus unconfirmed but it would explain alot. Give us more script writers! In a room! With pens!..............

....Lock the door.

Modifié par Redbelle, 23 mars 2012 - 11:42 .

[XXIceColdXX]

Someone mentioned this a few hundred pages back, but wouldnt it be legen----wait for it----dary if after Biowares IT announcement we recieve a patch, and 1 last priority mission flashes up in the journal. Was planned and on the disk the whole time.

[lex0r11]

Guys, bear with me, it's motivational time.

[Redbelle]

[quote]JustAidan wrote...
[/quote]

Ah, we are all heroes!, You and Boo and I! Hampsters and Rangers everywhere, REJOICE!

Anyway, so, what do people think about Meer weighing in?

I know there is alot of proof AND supporting evidence for the Indoctrination theory, but considering Meer is either in the dark/ not telling, along with one of the writers allegedly denying involvement, claiming the project manager and head writer wrote it on their own without input, I'm starting to feel my confidence sag.

What this says to me is a couple of things;

EIther Meer has yet to record any dialogue, and they are intentionally keeping him in the dark (possible), he is under NDA and is keeping mum on the subject (also possible)

Weekes is either lying about making the post to protect his job and Bioware is refusing to fire him so they don't confirm it, or he is on the level and the post was made by either an impostor, using a similar forum name, but seperate account, one deleted after the fact, or Weekes' account was hacked and someone posted trying to smear his good name.

In short, I don't know what to think anymore. The theory has too much supporting evidence to be dismissed or ignored, but I'm getting alot of mixed signals from Bioware, leaving me very confused.

[/quote]

All I know is this seems to be what happened to the Last season of Star Trek Enterprise. They gave the last season to a bona fide science fiction writer who could take a concept and make the episode soar with cleverness and charactisation. The battle's were meaningful, and relationships took off. Then the man in charge of ST took the last episode wrote it and made the last hurrah of the series look aweful.

i don't care who thinks they are in charge and deserves to write the ending. You give the work to the best you've got and polish it till it's as shiny as a Tali's faceplate...... then you see if you've missed a spot.

It'll take alot of work to overcome the ending in a way that'll make Shep's of the world united forgive what they let stand as the ending of the trilogy. They absolutely need to rally the best they have.

Modifié par Redbelle, 23 mars 2012 - 11:51 .

[comrade gando]

Not to get too far off topic here, but concerning Bioware's decision making in general: I can understand what they're going for with the false ending and such (making the players feel indoctrinated, just like shepard), but I still don't understand the logic behind photo shopping Tali's face poorly. Just a little side discussion about their decision making and not the actual face itself.

[Stigweird85]

As far as Tali's face, I felt it was a touching moment. Had it not been plastered over the internet that it was a "stock" photo I doubt anyone would have noticed or cared.

I certainly don't. I think the photo they picked suited Tali and wasn't far off what fans had drawn/photoshopped themselves as far back as Mass Effect 1

[greywardencommander]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

Small point I've not seen mentioned - has anyone else noticed that the relay on Ilos in ME1 and the beam at the end of ME3 are both called the Conduit? Perhaps another re-used memory of Shep's?

it's also the same idea running to essentially a beam just like in the original race to the conduit, looks pretty similar. Already said that that, plus the Citadel in the illusion being like the collector base and the shadow broker lair, the catalyst area looks like the conduit bit where you get knocked out running to the beam etc etc.
All suggests that Shepard's mind (or Harbinger) is using memories to form the illusion

[greywardencommander]

XXIceColdXX wrote...

Someone mentioned this a few hundred pages back, but wouldnt it be legen----wait for it----dary if after Biowares IT announcement we recieve a patch, and 1 last priority mission flashes up in the journal. Was planned and on the disk the whole time.

most of us probably wouldn't notice given the poor layout of the journals

[greywardencommander]

DuskRose wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

JustAidan wrote...

*snip*

Epilogues don't have to have audio, text and music or simply music and pictures/drawings would work fine. Baldur's Gate had some quite long epilogues all given in text form with music and I still remember to this day.
".....where hamsters are giants and men become legends" Kudos if you can tell me whose epilogue this is.

Ah, we are all heroes!, You and Boo and I! Hampsters and Rangers everywhere, REJOICE!

Go for the eyes!

I wish I had been able to play through the whole game.

Also: I like the fact that Bioware said that they weren't changing the ending, just 'clarifying' it.  I smell double-talk.

that's why we say it doesn't confirm or deny the theory  (after all if indoctrination/hallucination theory is true then the real ending is still to come which is a clarification of the current endings that it was a battle of the mind and the final push in battle is still to be fought!

[nyrocron]

I did just have an idea about how they could have done the voice acting without the actors really knowing. They could have done it for the real ending and later told them that it was scrapped due to ending changes.

ofc an NDA would be the easier way.

Modifié par nyrocron, 24 mars 2012 - 12:03 .

[savagejuicebox]

Asharad Hett wrote...

Joker: So you went into the Geth Consensus? Like virtual reality?
Shepard: Yeah, it was strange, but I made it out ok.
Joker: But did you really?
Shepard: What do you mean?
Joker: Think about it commander, if the Geth see everything as virtual reality, maybe even this is virtual reality, and you just THINK you made it out

well..uh..

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

After seeing the cut deleted cutscene , it's definitely indoctrination at work.The only reason I could think of to hold back that scene is because it would have ruin what they've tried to do.But this also means Bioware sold everyone a game with a false ending.

[Redbelle]

I think the decision making process may have been along the lines of. We're running out of money and haven't enough man hours to code what we need. Time to find shortcuts.

Just my viewpoint. ME3 was a project and running up against deadlines can result in from pretty hairbrained/inspired (delete as applicable) ideas.

I'm worried about BW's creative side. Going through another playthrough I found the romance music to be rehashed Dragonage romance music, the decision wheel of ME going into DA2. It's not that those aren't good ideas. It's the wider principal of using solutions from other sources without trying to find new and novel ways of dealing with the problem. Focusing a little less on a use of a one size fits all and more thought and ingenuity wouldn't hurt BW.

Having a ME artist draw Tali instead of of using stock photo's just illustrates the point....... though I do like the hair.

[ZerebusPrime]

That whole Beam in London up to the Citadel business continues to strike me as a trap. If the Reapers really wanted to protect the Citadel they wouldn't have moved it to Earth orbit and then provided a means to access it from a ground position. Instead they'd've locked it up tight and held it under guard near the Mu relay or a similarly "hot" nebula location that makes things hard to find.

Harbinger has been obsessed with Shepard since ME2 and this latest "conduit run" was Harby's chance to finally capture him/her. My opinion.

[Colintastic]

greywardencommander wrote...

Colintastic wrote...

snip

We say that the end's still to come because they weren't real and all in Shepard's mind, if planned - free (accounted for in game development budget in otherwords your £40 or whatever's already covered it it's only DLC for impact of getting everyone to wonder if it's really the end or not) because it was the biggest marketing ploy of all (no such thing as bad publicity they say, and it certainly drives interest if the 'real endings' are everybit as amazing as the rest of the game) even if not planned it needs to be free or there would be uproar about 'paying for endings'

If it was planned it would also be announced ASAP after addressing (i.e. at PAX and then announced for the following week for example) because it's going to take more than a few weeks to build a satisfactory DLC if they were genuinely planning this whole charade, if it's this will come out in June or something like that = not planned and whatever they have planned has been thrown together based on the unexpected reaction, but may still be awesome if it uses IT as their 'fix' and gives us the variation in endings we want (I for one welcome the idea of a possible Reaper victory for example so this whole we're unhappy because it's not a happy ending is complete rubbish).

It seems a lot of people's issues with IT is they've somehow got this random idea we think the endings are amazing because of the way they are interpreted with IT,

NO the endings are ONLY amazing if 'real endings based on IT are to come' (disregarding idea of dlc and unfinished product on disk stuff, storywise it would be epic, morally it's pretty bankrupt, even if dlc was free it would be 'unfinished on disk' why not re), in fact if done properly if not intended based on IT the endings would still be amazing

If there are no real endings, and the 'clarity' etc is just a big long statement explaining how brilliant and philosophical their ending was and explained the various plotholes etc. and maybe and epilogue explaining what happens to Joker, EDI, Liara etc that would be AWFUL

We want a real ending and a fix just like most people but our's is an 'alteration' not a change that means not changing the endings as they currently stand (they happened because it's an internal battle of the psyche) which thus makes a fix more plausible (deleting or modifiying current 10 min ending just wouldn't look right unless done properly and that's gonna take a long time)

If this was an intended marketing move, how did they keep the secret? On one hand I gotta believe that it is impossible for the same writers who wrote the rest of the game to have come up with the garbage that is the ending if IT was not intended. However, at the same time I gotta wonder how is it that secret was kept when Bioware/EA/Microsoft has bigger gaping holes than the Titanic? People know about Javik more than 6mos before release. There was also the demo with man stuck in wall and the script leak 4mos early. They couldn't keep anything quiet. It seems ridiculous that a secret this big could be kept. 

My only explanation for that is that maybe only Casey and Mac knew about this super secret plan, and everyone else was kept int he dark. But if that were the case then why did Casey come on this forum to defend the artistic integrity of the ending he approved as if he was honestly hurt that no one liked it? Had it been planned for, you would think he would sound less hurt, and maybe not even have said anything. If IT was intended, he would have realized that everyone would have hated the ending. I'd think he wouldn't have said anything until April 6th. 

Only continuing the development paradox, it's not really the holes that IT fills that convince me (I.E. poor writing, logical flaws, outright lies), it's the elements that serve no purpose if IT was not intended. Such as the breathing on Earth scene, or the husk eyes. The subtle evidence is there too, but that "earth breathing scene" is just so completely telling. 

So if IT is intended, and they kept the secret, how do you explain all the other leaks? Were those intentional?

HOW DEEP DOES THIS CONSPIRACY GO? 

[Redbelle]

savagejuicebox wrote...

Asharad Hett wrote...

Joker: So you went into the Geth Consensus? Like virtual reality?
Shepard: Yeah, it was strange, but I made it out ok.
Joker: But did you really?
Shepard: What do you mean?
Joker: Think about it commander, if the Geth see everything as virtual reality, maybe even this is virtual reality, and you just THINK you made it out

well..uh..

So Shep's actions no longer have consequences and to find out he jumps Joker......... <cough> or EDI.... no wait that doesn't work either.......