57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Stigweird85]

@Thomas Shepard.

Some interesting info there, any chance of a screen shot?

Also I agree with you, I made a similar comment earlier on today. I don't mind people voicing an opinion but there is a difference between criticism(constructive or otherwise) and just plan moaning and complaining.

The former would be welcome by Bioware and anyone in general, that is how we grow we learn from our mistakes. The latter shouldn't happened much past adolescence but sadly...

[SanoBub]

Thomas Shepard wrote...

I have watched for the past week and a half as my favourite game developer's name has been dragged through the mud. The writers of the most amazing RPGs ever made have been accused of being sell outs, inept and even talentless hacks. This was done by a lot of haters who probably didn't like the ending of Christopher Nolan's Inception because it was also "too confusing". Well, I am tired of this endless desire of philistines from all around the world, to spit on works that they don't comprehend, and try to bring us all down into the same intellectual swamp as them.

To me there is absolutely no doubt that ME3's endings are a well thought out and well constructed literary device. This has been agreed upon by the people who support the Indoctrination Theory.

In case you are still not familiar with the theory, or need to look at a cohesive list of evidence:



I do think that there are some tiny differences in the way that they interpret certain details, but I tend to agree with Angry Joe's interpretation of those.

As for my contribution to the stack of evidence that the endings are not real, I have spent the last half hour or so sifting through the game data with a program called umodel that can basically view any files created with the unreal engine. While not compatible with the ME files and unable to show their content it still manages to open the .pcc files and show the list of assets that they contain.

So I went into the Mass Effect 3BIOGameCookedPCConsole folder and started with the file called BioA_End003_Planet.pcc. Judging by the names of the assets the file is the level file for the scene where the Normandy has been shipwrecked onto the jungle planet. For those of you who still doubt that the scene is a dream that Shepard has, I would like to draw your attention to the following asset names:

Dream_FoliageMove_MM, Dream_Foliage_MAT_INST_01, Dream_Plant03, Dream_FoliageSheet_Diff, DreamTree01_DiffDreamTree01_Diff, DreamTree01_NormDreamTree01_Diff.

I think they are pretty self-explanatory. I will glance over the other level files when I have more time on my hands.

And seriously, if you still doubt BioWare are giving their very best to deliver to their fans the best possible story, then shame on you. Where do you get the nerve?

PS This is unrelated, but I have also seen a lot of this "selling out" drivel regarding BioWare. Quick question: Do you think that amazing writers, voice actors like Martin Sheen, Yvonne Strahovski, and many others, and some of the most talented game designers in the world come cheep?

Wow! This is an amazing find! Thank you!
And I agree on everything you said!

[TrveOmegaSlayer]

Another thing that puzzles me so much...
Why shooting TIM to save Andersson and if you fail, shooting TIM to avoid being shooting is considered Renegade?
And if you want to be fully Paragon and not attempt a Renegade action (twice in a row) you die.
Game over.
That's food for thought.
It seems hinting that Shep's behaviour has to change to grant a future to umanity or that your line of thoughts has been shifted someway.

[TrveOmegaSlayer]

TrveOmegaSlayer wrote...

Another thing that puzzles me so much...
Why shooting TIM to save Andersson and if you fail, shooting TIM to avoid being shooting is considered Renegade?
And if you want to be fully Paragon and not attempt a Renegade action (twice in a row) you die.
Game over.
That's food for thought.
It seems hinting that Shep's behaviour has to change to grant a future to umanity or that your line of thoughts has been shifted someway.

Also..well said Thomas!
Awesome find!

[Stigweird85]

That lends itself to the indoc theory. The fundamental blue good red bad that has been trained into us all is reversed.

Shep who is supposed to be the hero, (paragon or renegade doesn't matter) when in the illusion. The reapers make you view things their way as to try and fool you into making the decision they want rather than what you want.

If this is true then Bioware essentially indoctrinated us to do exactly what they wanted us to do

[NikolaiShade]

TrveOmegaSlayer wrote...

Another thing that puzzles me so much...
Why shooting TIM to save Andersson and if you fail, shooting TIM to avoid being shooting is considered Renegade?
And if you want to be fully Paragon and not attempt a Renegade action (twice in a row) you die.
Game over.
That's food for thought.
It seems hinting that Shep's behaviour has to change to grant a future to umanity or that your line of thoughts has been shifted someway.

IF the Indoctrination Theory is right, I really wonder if they were the Reapers trying to indoctrinate Shepard or BioWare trying to indoctrinate the player.

[Denvian]

TrveOmegaSlayer wrote...

That flashing thing I mentioned about TIM.
I saw a vid on youtube from PC version...it didn't happened.
Only on PS3 (my PS3?...but I hadn't the chance to make the last Paragon dialogue branch...maybe it happens if you have like 98% Paragon and not 2% full...don't know... )

Yeah unforunetly there are just glitches in the game that makes it a bit harder to tell what was intentional and what was a mistake.  

[Either.Ardrey]

Thomas Shepard wrote...

I have watched for the past week and a half as my favourite game developer's name has been dragged through the mud. The writers of the most amazing RPGs ever made have been accused of being sell outs, inept and even talentless hacks. This was done by a lot of haters who probably didn't like the ending of Christopher Nolan's Inception because it was also "too confusing". Well, I am tired of this endless desire of philistines from all around the world, to spit on works that they don't comprehend, and try to bring us all down into the same intellectual swamp as them.

To me there is absolutely no doubt that ME3's endings are a well thought out and well constructed literary device. This has been agreed upon by the people who support the Indoctrination Theory.

In case you are still not familiar with the theory, or need to look at a cohesive list of evidence:



I do think that there are some tiny differences in the way that they interpret certain details, but I tend to agree with Angry Joe's interpretation of those.

As for my contribution to the stack of evidence that the endings are not real, I have spent the last half hour or so sifting through the game data with a program called umodel that can basically view any files created with the unreal engine. While not compatible with the ME files and unable to show their content it still manages to open the .pcc files and show the list of assets that they contain.

So I went into the Mass Effect 3BIOGameCookedPCConsole folder and started with the file called BioA_End003_Planet.pcc. Judging by the names of the assets the file is the level file for the scene where the Normandy has been shipwrecked onto the jungle planet. For those of you who still doubt that the scene is a dream that Shepard has, I would like to draw your attention to the following asset names:

Dream_FoliageMove_MM, Dream_Foliage_MAT_INST_01, Dream_Plant03, Dream_FoliageSheet_Diff, DreamTree01_DiffDreamTree01_Diff, DreamTree01_NormDreamTree01_Diff.

I think they are pretty self-explanatory. I will glance over the other level files when I have more time on my hands.

And seriously, if you still doubt BioWare are giving their very best to deliver to their fans the best possible story, then shame on you. Where do you get the nerve?

PS This is unrelated, but I have also seen a lot of this "selling out" drivel regarding BioWare. Quick question: Do you think that amazing writers, voice actors like Martin Sheen, Yvonne Strahovski, and many others, and some of the most talented game designers in the world come cheep?

Some of the best evidence yet, I'd say. I was always neutral on the topic, but this makes me lean in the IT direction a little more. The trees and models in the Normandy crash were never in any of the "official" dream sequences, so why label them as dream in the file? To make it easier for the level designers to find the assets for that sequence. Great find.

[captainbob8383]

Thomas Shepard wrote...

As for my contribution to the stack of evidence that the endings are not real, I have spent the last half hour or so sifting through the game data with a program called umodel that can basically view any files created with the unreal engine. While not compatible with the ME files and unable to show their content it still manages to open the .pcc files and show the list of assets that they contain.

So I went into the Mass Effect 3BIOGameCookedPCConsole folder and started with the file called BioA_End003_Planet.pcc. Judging by the names of the assets the file is the level file for the scene where the Normandy has been shipwrecked onto the jungle planet. For those of you who still doubt that the scene is a dream that Shepard has, I would like to draw your attention to the following asset names:

Dream_FoliageMove_MM, Dream_Foliage_MAT_INST_01, Dream_Plant03, Dream_FoliageSheet_Diff, DreamTree01_DiffDreamTree01_Diff, DreamTree01_NormDreamTree01_Diff.

I think they are pretty self-explanatory. I will glance over the other level files when I have more time on my hands.

Couldnt it be the assets used in Shepard forest dream sequences ?

Modifié par captainbob8383, 24 mars 2012 - 06:12 .

[Either.Ardrey]

TrveOmegaSlayer wrote...

That flashing thing I mentioned about TIM.
I saw a vid on youtube from PC version...it didn't happened.
Only on PS3 (my PS3?...but I hadn't the chance to make the last Paragon dialogue branch...maybe it happens if you have like 98% Paragon and not 2% full...don't know... )

I think it's been stated that you have to pick the Paragon option during every TIM dialogue in the entire game. I was at full reputation/98% Paragon and I was initially confused as to why I couldn't do it as well. I'm paying more attention now in my second playthrough to see if this is really the case, or if it's just a bug.

[RiGoRmOrTiS_UK]

SanoBub wrote...

Thomas Shepard wrote...

I have watched for the past week and a half as my favourite game developer's name has been dragged through the mud. The writers of the most amazing RPGs ever made have been accused of being sell outs, inept and even talentless hacks. This was done by a lot of haters who probably didn't like the ending of Christopher Nolan's Inception because it was also "too confusing". Well, I am tired of this endless desire of philistines from all around the world, to spit on works that they don't comprehend, and try to bring us all down into the same intellectual swamp as them.

To me there is absolutely no doubt that ME3's endings are a well thought out and well constructed literary device. This has been agreed upon by the people who support the Indoctrination Theory.

In case you are still not familiar with the theory, or need to look at a cohesive list of evidence:



I do think that there are some tiny differences in the way that they interpret certain details, but I tend to agree with Angry Joe's interpretation of those.

As for my contribution to the stack of evidence that the endings are not real, I have spent the last half hour or so sifting through the game data with a program called umodel that can basically view any files created with the unreal engine. While not compatible with the ME files and unable to show their content it still manages to open the .pcc files and show the list of assets that they contain.

So I went into the Mass Effect 3BIOGameCookedPCConsole folder and started with the file called BioA_End003_Planet.pcc. Judging by the names of the assets the file is the level file for the scene where the Normandy has been shipwrecked onto the jungle planet. For those of you who still doubt that the scene is a dream that Shepard has, I would like to draw your attention to the following asset names:

Dream_FoliageMove_MM, Dream_Foliage_MAT_INST_01, Dream_Plant03, Dream_FoliageSheet_Diff, DreamTree01_DiffDreamTree01_Diff, DreamTree01_NormDreamTree01_Diff.

I think they are pretty self-explanatory. I will glance over the other level files when I have more time on my hands.

And seriously, if you still doubt BioWare are giving their very best to deliver to their fans the best possible story, then shame on you. Where do you get the nerve?

PS This is unrelated, but I have also seen a lot of this "selling out" drivel regarding BioWare. Quick question: Do you think that amazing writers, voice actors like Martin Sheen, Yvonne Strahovski, and many others, and some of the most talented game designers in the world come cheep?

Wow! This is an amazing find! Thank you!
And I agree on everything you said!

its its not just possible they used the same "tree assets" from his "dream sequences" somewhere in the jungle planet ending?

[K. Rodenberg]

Also notice how, if you pick the "Destruction" ending, and if you have the "From Ashes" DLC, you'll see Javik step out of the Normandy. Food for thought in-line with his advice.

[Either.Ardrey]

captainbob8383 wrote...

Thomas Shepard wrote...

As for my contribution to the stack of evidence that the endings are not real, I have spent the last half hour or so sifting through the game data with a program called umodel that can basically view any files created with the unreal engine. While not compatible with the ME files and unable to show their content it still manages to open the .pcc files and show the list of assets that they contain.

So I went into the Mass Effect 3BIOGameCookedPCConsole folder and started with the file called BioA_End003_Planet.pcc. Judging by the names of the assets the file is the level file for the scene where the Normandy has been shipwrecked onto the jungle planet. For those of you who still doubt that the scene is a dream that Shepard has, I would like to draw your attention to the following asset names:

Dream_FoliageMove_MM, Dream_Foliage_MAT_INST_01, Dream_Plant03, Dream_FoliageSheet_Diff, DreamTree01_DiffDreamTree01_Diff, DreamTree01_NormDreamTree01_Diff.

I think they are pretty self-explanatory. I will glance over the other level files when I have more time on my hands.

Couldnt it be the assets used in Shepard forest dream sequences ?

The only problem I saw with that is that those trees were never used in that portion of the game, so why even put them in the UPK/PCC for that area of the game?


EDIT: If anyone has 3DS Max (with the ActorX Importer) and uModel, they could actually open the file and check to see which trees they actually are. I don't think I have uModel yet on my ME3 PC, and I probably wouldn't get to doing it for a few days (playing my 2nd playthrough at the moment).

Modifié par Either.Ardrey, 24 mars 2012 - 06:20 .

[Either.Ardrey]

K. Rodenberg wrote...

Also notice how, if you pick the "Destruction" ending, and if you have the "From Ashes" DLC, you'll see Javik step out of the Normandy. Food for thought in-line with his advice.

This doesn't always happen. Some people who have the DLC have reported that other characters came out in theirs (though Javik did come out in my first runthrough).

Modifié par Either.Ardrey, 24 mars 2012 - 06:16 .

[IronSabbath88]

Thomas, good on you, my man!

It's nice to see some new, thought provking evidence come forward.

[Fiery Knight]

K. Rodenberg wrote...

Also notice how, if you pick the "Destruction" ending, and if you have the "From Ashes" DLC, you'll see Javik step out of the Normandy. Food for thought in-line with his advice.

That's if he was in your squad in London.

[Denvian]

K. Rodenberg wrote...

Also notice how, if you pick the "Destruction" ending, and if you have the "From Ashes" DLC, you'll see Javik step out of the Normandy. Food for thought in-line with his advice.

You know I would like to know what makes who come out of the normandy... There are some well know ones like with sythesis ending EDI comes out with joker and with destruction EDI can't come out becuase she is dead.  But One playthrough I had Ashley and Liara come out and the next Liara and Garus. 

Personally I think it is because Liara was my love interest but I have no idea... I have never had Jarvik and I do have that DLC so who knows. 

Oh one playthrough I had James and Jarvik in my squad and neither of them came out of the Normandy.... And I am like, "Hu?"

Modifié par Denvian, 24 mars 2012 - 06:19 .

[Fiery Knight]

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...
its its not just possible they used the same "tree assets" from his "dream sequences" somewhere in the jungle planet ending?

And thus, we fall back to zero.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Thomas, good on you, my man!

It's nice to see some new, thought provking evidence come forward.

The very fact we can still find veidence after 800+ pages should be evidence in itself. I simply cant comprehend how anyone would create and leave so many hints lying around on accident....I mean we could build a new Destiny Ascension from this pile of hints and evidence alone, you dont just leave that lying around on accident.

[Lakeshow1986]

Thomas Shepard your a hero!

[Denvian]

TrveOmegaSlayer wrote...

TrveOmegaSlayer wrote...

Another thing that puzzles me so much...
Why shooting TIM to save Andersson and if you fail, shooting TIM to avoid being shooting is considered Renegade?
And if you want to be fully Paragon and not attempt a Renegade action (twice in a row) you die.
Game over.
That's food for thought.
It seems hinting that Shep's behaviour has to change to grant a future to umanity or that your line of thoughts has been shifted someway.

Also..well said Thomas!
Awesome find!

Lol everyone knows that getting shot is the Polite Paragon thing to do!  

Modifié par Denvian, 24 mars 2012 - 06:22 .

[Golferguy758]

Golferguy758 wrote...

byne wrote...

SanoBub wrote...

I'd really like to know how fast FTL speed actually is. Even if it's 100 times faster than light it would still take 1000 years to flight from one end of the galaxy to the other (Which the Reapers never would have to do because of the mass relays but it would still take a very, very long time).

Edit: This has nothing to do with IT btw. As I said, it's just a thing I asked myself. Since the war in the last cycle took a few hundret years it seems possible that the Reapers really just use FTL speed in that case though.

According to the codex, current FTL drives can do about 12 light years a day. Reapers can pull about 30 light years a day.


Also, replaying the ending, i was again wondering about the conduit. Why send unharvested bodies up to the Citadel? Especially when the conduit creates a gaping hole in your defenses? Reading the codex I remembered one of the Reaper variants:

* PROCESSORS, also called "slaughter ships," are mobile centers for mass DNA harvesting. Like troop transports, processors appear to be remotely operated by sapient Reapers.


Why use a conduit at all? Why not put the humans in processor ships and send those to the Citadel, harvesting them along the way, instead of dumping bodies in a random hallway?

The more I beat the game the less and less sense it makes.

Actually...you bring up a tinfoil hat point. One that is very very very unlikely, but one that coudl be amusing nonetheless. How do we know exactly where that beam takes you?

What if the beam doesn't take you to the citadel at all? What if the beam takes you to a slaughter ship above the planet? Both green and blue could be, instead of indoctrination, just killing yourself in some fancy way. You dissolve in either ending.

Red means you blow up an important part of the ship and it crashes back down to earth.

[Lakeshow1986]

Hawke_12 wrote...

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...
its its not just possible they used the same "tree assets" from his "dream sequences" somewhere in the jungle planet ending?

And thus, we fall back to zero.

Nothing for the dream sequence looks like the planet they crash on though.

[Denvian]

Lakeshow1986 wrote...

Hawke_12 wrote...

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...
its its not just possible they used the same "tree assets" from his "dream sequences" somewhere in the jungle planet ending?

And thus, we fall back to zero.

Nothing for the dream sequence looks like the planet they crash on though.

No but the Planet they crash on looks exactly the same as Zaeeds loyalty mission planet.

[TrveOmegaSlayer]

I'm Italian so I don't get American voices well but isn't the Starganzer's voice Marteen Sheen's?