57139 réponses à ce sujet

[SanoBub]

Thomas Shepard wrote...

@ Jillers

I would gladly, but I am currently looking through a bunch of game data files for assets with names that might support the IT. (Found a couple in the BioA_End001_920Beam.pcc, which is the scene when you get hit by the beam, I guess. They are 2D textures named DreamTree01_DiffDreamTree01_Diff and DreamTree01_NormDreamTree01_Diff) I am also downloading the Unreal Development Kit Beta to try and crack some of the suckers open.

Nice 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

noobcannon wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

 I think this could match some of the rubble Shep lies in in the _alive scene: 
http://imgur.com/bVeLv
That would support the theory that Shep is on Citadel or at least has parts of it around him.

(Just posting what I find and playin' devils advocate here, I hope for arguments to counter that)

except the shep_alive scene i think is pre rendered. that would explain why there is regular n7 armor instead of whatever you were wearing. can anyone confirm this that is digging around?

I agree the last scene is pre rendered from what i can see, cant cite any proof though other than I have an eye for the changes that happen between ingame and prerendered graphics so just my opinion here.

[Terimtetim]

I don't know if it was shown already but the reaper you kill on Rannoch says this:
"Harbinger speaks of you. You Resist. But you will Fail." Kinda fits when you think of the Indoctrination.

Minute 4:00

[RorickHuon]

FTI45 wrote...

 Hi all, this is my first post here due to the fact I have been having issues trying to be able to post in this forum until now. I've been following (lurking) this forum since the first week of mass effect 3's release and after my immediate reaction to the fact the ending can not be what it seems. I had a lot to add to this theory but due to the problems I have been having with posting on this forum the info I wanted to add has either been already discussed or disproved. 
I do not want to ramble on, so I just wanted to say how great all you people are doing something like this, collaborating thoughts and being an active community. I forgot who said it but I heard the ending was supposed to be controversial and make people talk, something like that, and you guys are doing just that, that is what I find amazing, unlike most people I find who are taking it as Bioware are just bad at games and were lazy at the ending. Which honestly, I can not believe since they made Mass effect 1 and 2 wonderfully, as well as 3. I know this has nothing to do with the actual purpose of the forum but I just wanted to say how awesome you guys are for doing this, because I myself can not see Bioware making a bad ending to the best game franchise(my opinion).  

I support this pot 100% 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

SanoBub wrote...

Thomas Shepard wrote...

@ Jillers

I would gladly, but I am currently looking through a bunch of game data files for assets with names that might support the IT. (Found a couple in the BioA_End001_920Beam.pcc, which is the scene when you get hit by the beam, I guess. They are 2D textures named DreamTree01_DiffDreamTree01_Diff and DreamTree01_NormDreamTree01_Diff) I am also downloading the Unreal Development Kit Beta to try and crack some of the suckers open.

Nice 

This is why you should not mess with video gamers and computer nerds. If something seems off we will crack it open and keep digging until we find something we can use

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Terimtetim wrote...

I don't know if it was shown already but the reaper you kill on Rannoch says this:
"Harbinger speaks of you. You Resist. But you will Fail." Kinda fits when you think of the Indoctrination.

Minute 4:00

Dident even remember that, that is one serius bit of evidence for the IT. I mean really, what else can that sentence mean other than that Harbinger is trying to Indoctrinate you?

[lex0r11]

FTI45 wrote...

 Hi all, this is my first post here due to the fact I have been having issues trying to be able to post in this forum until now. I've been following (lurking) this forum since the first week of mass effect 3's release and after my immediate reaction to the fact the ending can not be what it seems. I had a lot to add to this theory but due to the problems I have been having with posting on this forum the info I wanted to add has either been already discussed or disproved. 
I do not want to ramble on, so I just wanted to say how great all you people are doing something like this, collaborating thoughts and being an active community. I forgot who said it but I heard the ending was supposed to be controversial and make people talk, something like that, and you guys are doing just that, that is what I find amazing, unlike most people I find who are taking it as Bioware are just bad at games and were lazy at the ending. Which honestly, I can not believe since they made Mass effect 1 and 2 wonderfully, as well as 3. I know this has nothing to do with the actual purpose of the forum but I just wanted to say how awesome you guys are for doing this, because I myself can not see Bioware making a bad ending to the best game franchise(my opinion).  

Thank you for your input. I hope you will have fun in future discussions and will stay for awhile in this thread.

[greywardencommander]

Denvian wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Renoscott wrote...

Denvian wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Fair enough. I just don't like how some people are acting.

It is sad really.  Considering the great moments that can be had in Mass Effect 3 all discussion is pretty much focused on, "Do you like the ending? I hated the ending".

Its mainly because people cant wrape there heads around the endings true intenchons or it one of two things. "I dont want to use my imagination! thats why I have games!" or "I don't what to do resurch for the end! I was handed incomplet **** and I know the DLC will be paid even though its not finished."

Guys, i'm a supporter of the Indoc Theory.

But it is still a theory and not a fact until Bioware comes out with a statement without any PR talk. People don't have to believe in this thread and we shbould not force it into their heads. They are allowed to hate the endings and not look for any explanataion other than 'the ending was bad'. It's not wrong.

At the end of the daym we all want something changed with the endgame. We shouldn't create two fronts, if in fact we all want the same.

I was talking about great moments with the rest of the game but I get your point.

Personally I am a bit in the camp that I do not want bioware to do anything they originally didn't intent  but I think I am in the minority.  

I agree to an extent but if running with this is the easiest way to make people happy and give a real ending I see no issue personally.

Noone's saying IT is true the clue is the fact we're calling it a theory not fact. Most people are happy to wait till otherwise told to not believe and some might get carried away and shout down people who claim otherwise. Most of us take each point and explain how it can still be accounted for in IT. In some of the smaller points we could always blame a glitch or bad writing seeing as many (by no means all) who troll this thread is all they come up with to counter us and provide no alternatives to how they would fix the ending beyond 'it just needs to be fixed'

At least this way Bioware don't need to change anything (thus save face, who wants to say guys it was rubbish here's an edited and different ending) because the last 10 minutes still matter and heck if it wasn' t the intention I say pretend it was anyway, again to save face.

[SanoBub]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Terimtetim wrote...

I don't know if it was shown already but the reaper you kill on Rannoch says this:
"Harbinger speaks of you. You Resist. But you will Fail." Kinda fits when you think of the Indoctrination.

Minute 4:00

Dident even remember that, that is one serius bit of evidence for the IT. I mean really, what else can that sentence mean other than that Harbinger is trying to Indoctrinate you?

And on the Arrival DLC he says "You may struggle but your mind will be mine" (or something like that).
I posted a video of it some days ago. Can't find it at the moment though.

[Rifneno]

JustAidan wrote...

The 1M1 thing was suggested to do with musicial scores awhile back.

...

Odd now that I think about it but I think in the cutscene of the relays exploding we only see the ones that Shepard knew about.

1M1 has been suggested to do with everything from musical scores to dates to the second gunman on the grassy knoll. I'm just saying I think people are reading too much into it. I think it's just there to look out of place. Just my opinion though.
As for the relays exploding being only the ones Shepard used, yeah, I've been pointing that out for a couple days now. Nobody has commented on it.

Either.Ardrey wrote...

I never saw you state that they played in Chicago/LA. Same thing applies though, since the same reaction applies to the various subcultures that live in the US. Western games, with a largely noncommittal audience, doesn't get the same kind of support as games of Japanese origin that went viral within their commmunities. You'd have to be in the know to know about it, because I live right by LA. If it was actually popular in the conventional sense (and not just a subculture thing), I would have heard about it, regardless of whether I wanted to or not.

OT, if Mass Effect had enough of a cultural following to warrant a concert, I would totally go.

Edit: Just did a recheck, only the US as a whole was mentioned, so partially my bad. But still, I'd wager that there is no "most influential video game track" because for the most part, no one really knows or cares beyond extreme enthusiasts like us and video game creators.

So Mass Effect has a noncommittal audience? The same audience that's risen such a fuss over 10 minutes of gametime that news agencies like BBC and CNN are covering the outrage? Gonna have to disagree there. Pretty strongly. Yes, Japan is far more fanatical about their video games. Which is why they go the extra mile with the music. Remember how I mentioned they hired an actual pop star to do one of the tracks a while back? Rumors at the time said they laid out about a million dollars for that 5 minutes. You rarely even hear lyrics in western RPG music. They sure as hell don't have Celine Dion doing them.

I don't believe people have trouble giving the Japanese side of the fence credit where it's due. Western RPGs have deeper and more complex stories, more immersive worlds, infinitely more flexibility in customization and choices... is it really that hard to admit they do better music? IGN doesn't look to have any problem with it, saying Final Fantasy pretty much put video game music on the map to begin with. And considering the praise fawned at One Winged Angel in the #1 slot, I think it's safe to say they also disagree about tracks not bieng influential.

Vahilor wrote...

Some people say it is possible.. I myself played MP to get 100% readiness =)

I highly recommend MP to people struggling with EMS. I'm NOT a fan of multiplayer shooters and the like. I was positive I'd hate it, but I'm hooked on it now. ... Now if only they'd fix assault rifles and SMGs...

TrveOmegaSlayer wrote...

Another thing that puzzles me so much...
Why shooting TIM to save Andersson and if you fail, shooting TIM to avoid being shooting is considered Renegade?
And if you want to be fully Paragon and not attempt a Renegade action (twice in a row) you die.
Game over.
That's food for thought.
It seems hinting that Shep's behaviour has to change to grant a future to umanity or that your line of thoughts has been shifted someway.

To be fair, it seems like any interrupt that induces violence, no matter how justified, is a renegade one. Like on Garrus' recruitment mission in 2. You get a chance to headshot an enemy mech with a sniper rifle. It's a renegade interrupt. To shoot the mech that's programmed to come kill you.

Either.Ardrey wrote...

Some of the best evidence yet, I'd say. I was always neutral on the topic, but this makes me lean in the IT direction a little more. The trees and models in the Normandy crash were never in any of the "official" dream sequences, so why label them as dream in the file? To make it easier for the level designers to find the assets for that sequence. Great find.

I hate to be a buzzkill... but I feel I have to say in the interest of truth, the plants labeled 'dream' aren't always in dream sequences. I noticed those dream plants when I was browsing the Normandy scene a while back too. I, too, thought "ca-ching!" Unfortuantely a short while later I also found them in the files for Sanctuary.

noobcannon wrote...

the thing that makes me laugh is when someone starts a new thread:

"PROOF indoc theory isn't real". then they say it's because the VI didn't detect shepard was indoctrinated
or
"twitter says they arent changing the ending, they're just clarifying it so indoc theory is over."

all i can do is laugh and facepalm every time and try not to troll too hard.

Rifneno approves. (+15)
Morrigan disapproves. (-20)

nyrocron wrote...

At least I think I can confirm that control is a bad choice. Also note that it is Choice_BadA where Synthesis would be the bad choice B (I hope).

End_Choice_BadA_01: http://imgur.com/fSApZ

Jinx!

[SanoBub]

Thomas Shepard wrote...
Btw this is an export of the Dream_FoliageSheet_Diff texture for anyone who doubts that it is the texture used where the Normandy crash site: http://img13.imagesh...rtedtexture.png

I'm still looking at that image 
One of the best evidences so far in my opinion.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

SanoBub wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Terimtetim wrote...

I don't know if it was shown already but the reaper you kill on Rannoch says this:
"Harbinger speaks of you. You Resist. But you will Fail." Kinda fits when you think of the Indoctrination.

Minute 4:00

Dident even remember that, that is one serius bit of evidence for the IT. I mean really, what else can that sentence mean other than that Harbinger is trying to Indoctrinate you?

And on the Arrival DLC he says "You may struggle but your mind will be mine" (or something like that).
I posted a video of it some days ago. Can't find it at the moment though.

That one I remembered, but actually having that hint in ME3 and not just from Arrival is pretty huge if you ask me.

[greywardencommander]

SanoBub wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Terimtetim wrote...

I don't know if it was shown already but the reaper you kill on Rannoch says this:
"Harbinger speaks of you. You Resist. But you will Fail." Kinda fits when you think of the Indoctrination.

Minute 4:00

Dident even remember that, that is one serius bit of evidence for the IT. I mean really, what else can that sentence mean other than that Harbinger is trying to Indoctrinate you?

And on the Arrival DLC he says "You may struggle but your mind will be mine" (or something like that).
I posted a video of it some days ago. Can't find it at the moment though.

it can still mean the actual war but I refuse to accept that's not a double meaning to do with Sheps mind as well! Particularly when taken with the Arrival DLC 'your mind will be mine'
Harbinger has a creepy obsession with Shep, that much is obvious enough to mean it's perfectly logical he'd rather control him than kill him (thus indoctrinate him in the last 10 mins after knocking him out rather than kill him)

[Stigweird85]

Also the incomplete argument doesn't hold up in modern media.

Just look at recent cinema -> Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows Part 1 then next year came part 2
Same with Twilight. One story 2 movies
Or going back in years the original Italian Job it ended on a cliff hanger - literally.

Did anyone demand their ticket money back because it was an incomplete film? When they bought the DVD did they ask for their money back as it was only half a film?

So to complain that it is incomplete is the equivalent of complaining that favourite TV show finished for the season mid way through the plot. That's the point it is supposed to generate interest in what comes next.

Mass Effect 3 had an ending, whether you liked them or not it had an ending it wasn't incomplete. You can also guarantee that there was going to be DLC before the game was released does this make the retail copy uncomplete.

What about the biggest selling game of all time Call of Duty, they ship a game and then charge for extra content. Now they are even brazen enough to ask for payment in advance in the form of Elite. Knowing this fact would you consider COD an incomplete game?

[nyrocron]

Rifneno wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

At least I think I can confirm that control is a bad choice. Also note that it is Choice_BadA where Synthesis would be the bad choice B (I hope).

End_Choice_BadA_01: http://imgur.com/fSApZ

Jinx!

Had not finished the game back then, nice that it was already found.

I have to say that I do not think the DreamTrees stuff proves anything. That is simple reuse of assets. The fact that they are there might be a hint, but the name is not (imo).

Also, because some were not sure about that: The shep_alive scene is definitely prerendered, you can find the video file in your game folder.

Modifié par nyrocron, 24 mars 2012 - 09:15 .

[Thomas Shepard]

Sorry I'm taking so long guys, but the UDK installer is making my PC sweat pretty hard. At the same time I have no problem playing most games on Ultra *wondering*. Cursed hamster power cells!

[NikolaiShade]

Hi again, I just remembered a comment made by Shepard during the Cerberus base mission, while I can't quote it precisely, the commander wondered if he was real or not a VI programmed to believe it was Shepard.
Althought not directly related to the Indoctrination Theory is interresting how many times the identity or psychological condition of Shepard are questioned.

[someone else]

I think BW has had this planned out long ago - there is only one "Best Ending" as Chris has said repeatedly - and that has to be the one in which Shep draws a breath -

Seriously
- for all non-believers - if your shep had single breath left, would you expect her to just to lie there...?   Remember, we have been promised, "...one more story about the Shepard..."   This after the telling of ME1-3.   A perfect way to complete the arc, segue to "The Further Adventures of..." and ouila! transition from ME games to ME Franchise complete.

Everything, from the requirement to use Origin, to the leaked script, to the new  manners policy issued the day before game release (anticipating Cat 5 sh*tstorm on release)  - suggests BW intended to lay a false trail and insure delivery of the real ending.

1. The  evidence supporting IT is overwhelming, but not necessary - a dream or delirium would do almost as well - personally, my nickel is on IT however..

2. The use of a "false" ending is a brilliant strategy  to hide all the pregame hacking and spoilers - any one heard any
spoilers on the dlc?  How many were there one month prior to release date for the game?

3.  If the Ending is not the end, then rewriting the game is not necessary (and would likely have been impossibly difficult, costly etc, and almost certainly kludgy)

4. BW says to expect something in april - a LotSB size dlc cannot be created in a month's time, and certainly something of that magnitude would be necessary to "re-do" the ending - whatever is forthcoming has to have been in the works long before release date.

If BW pulls this off, astounding - perhaps the first truly great artistic masterpiece of the digital age.

If this is so, then BW has us all where we're supposed to be - indoctrinated, frustrated, confused and angry - for the time being...

I sure hope I'm right...

Modifié par someone else, 24 mars 2012 - 09:24 .

[MassEffectFan11]

Terimtetim wrote...

I don't know if it was shown already but the reaper you kill on Rannoch says this:
"Harbinger speaks of you. You Resist. But you will Fail." Kinda fits when you think of the Indoctrination.

Minute 4:00

I kinda figured it meant that you resist the Reapers, not indoctrination.

Modifié par MassEffectFan11, 24 mars 2012 - 09:21 .

[MassEffectFan11]

bigstig wrote...

Also the incomplete argument doesn't hold up in modern media.

Just look at recent cinema -> Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows Part 1 then next year came part 2
Same with Twilight. One story 2 movies
Or going back in years the original Italian Job it ended on a cliff hanger - literally.

Did anyone demand their ticket money back because it was an incomplete film? When they bought the DVD did they ask for their money back as it was only half a film?

So to complain that it is incomplete is the equivalent of complaining that favourite TV show finished for the season mid way through the plot. That's the point it is supposed to generate interest in what comes next.

Mass Effect 3 had an ending, whether you liked them or not it had an ending it wasn't incomplete. You can also guarantee that there was going to be DLC before the game was released does this make the retail copy uncomplete.

What about the biggest selling game of all time Call of Duty, they ship a game and then charge for extra content. Now they are even brazen enough to ask for payment in advance in the form of Elite. Knowing this fact would you consider COD an incomplete game?

COD and Mass Effect aren't even remotely comperable. COD isn't a game made for its story. Mass Effect is known for it's story, that's the main reason everyone loves it. And Bioware has always taken what fans say into account. Fans are just asking that their views be taken into account now, since Bioware kind of made it out to be that we were going to get a lot more than we did.

[Stigweird85]

@Someone_else

I always assumed that the new policy here was about those d-Bags who were harassing an employee( I think it was Jessica not actually sure what went down) but you could be right.

BTW Playing devils advocate here but can someone point to the press release or statement where Bioware said specifically wait until April. DId they even say that or are we just assume because of Pax.

I believe in the IT and I hope it is true then we can finally turn and take a gracious bow towards all those who said we were just a bunch of whiners who thought we were over entitled. If IT does happen do you think all these media outlets will start published "We're sorry" articles.

If you really want to go all tinfoil hat on it, you could always suggest that the anti IT in the press is a result of specific journalists being in on the joke. If that was true then Bioware would be awesome for life but I think that would be taking things a little to far. However in this thread we have already established the real possibility that Bioware were playing the players(with the flipped colours etc) so it may not be that far fetched.

[spz123]

They said we'd hear something in April, not that there would br any DLC by then.

[SirLugash]

I would be careful with everything that has to do with extracted game files.
Even if they provide some nice hints (which I think they definitely do), you actually should never see them, therefore it could be just sloppy file management (not renaming files but simply reusing them as they are).
The Indoc Theory should base on ingame facts.

Anyways: @Denvian: You said that 1m1 thing is a antenna.
Is it from the pathway to the console in the citadel or from the Starchild scene ?

@ Shep_Alive vid: IIRC it is a .bnk file, therefore a Bink-Video (that means it's pre-rendered), so therefore those texture files actually shouldn't apply to that, right ?

Modifié par SirLugash, 24 mars 2012 - 09:36 .

[someone else]

bigstig wrote...

@Someone_else

I always assumed that the new policy here was about those d-Bags who were harassing an employee( I think it was Jessica not actually sure what went down) but you could be right.

BTW Playing devils advocate here but can someone point to the press release or statement where Bioware said specifically wait until April. DId they even say that or are we just assume because of Pax.

I believe in the IT and I hope it is true then we can finally turn and take a gracious bow towards all those who said we were just a bunch of whiners who thought we were over entitled. If IT does happen do you think all these media outlets will start published "We're sorry" articles.

If you really want to go all tinfoil hat on it, you could always suggest that the anti IT in the press is a result of specific journalists being in on the joke. If that was true then Bioware would be awesome for life but I think that would be taking things a little to far. However in this thread we have already established the real possibility that Bioware were playing the players(with the flipped colours etc) so it may not be that far fetched.

1. The timing of the manners policy was suspicious - there was more than enough nastiness over the leaked script to have warranted it any time in the past 4 months.

2. Chris' reference to a singular "Best Ending" keeps me thinking there is some significant distinction among  RGB...

3.  No I would not have clued in the press if I were managing this  - too leaky a bucket - and I will love to see them wiping the egg off their faces...

4.  More than simply playing the players - no mean feat that - but giving us a masterful reveal - truly genius - if they'll only do it...

Modifié par someone else, 24 mars 2012 - 09:39 .

[Stigweird85]

@MassEffectFan11

I wasn't really comparing COD to Mass Effect in that sense, I personally can't stand COD. I think it's the same game reskinned each year for a higher price but thats beside the point.

The point I was trying to make, especially this year where COD was sold with the Elite subscription which made it$60 plus another $40(I think) for the elite subscription. The DLC is spread throughout the year but it's essentially the same argument.

The game on the disk is not the full product, if you want everything you will need to shell out for the subscription. Despite this COD is still the highest selling game of all time. Where is the level of hatred for that? Where is the demand that the content should be on the disk? There are a few who would complain but for the most part people accepted it.

I personally don't accept the it's not a full game argument. I hope my rambling made some sense for you