57139 réponses à ce sujet

[NikolaiShade]

Alex_Dur4and wrote...

Hello everyone.

Ok! I've always found the ending too strange to be true. I made my research and did my own analysis of the ending in all possible ways. And I am now ready to make a stand...

I am 100% convinced in indoctrination attempt!!!

There! I said it and you can laugh at me all you like if it's not.

Don't worry you would be in good company, sad thing is, if it's true, a lot of people will never believe it was planned.

Modifié par NikolaiShade, 24 mars 2012 - 10:16 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

bigstig wrote...

@Terran235

I know, but they have also made it clear that Mass Effect 3 will not be the end of the franchise.

I would take the MMO but I doubt they would launch another MMO directly against themselves. The question is where would it go from here. Bioware would need a solution that keeps the relays in tact(The IT would allow this) After all the whole franchise is named after the technology in those realys.

Personal opinion on where Mass Effect could go is that I would love to see a Real Time Strategy game based upon it, maybe something similar to Sins of a Solar Empire.

[Crasher027]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Terimtetim wrote...

I don't know if it was shown already but the reaper you kill on Rannoch says this:
"Harbinger speaks of you. You Resist. But you will Fail." Kinda fits when you think of the Indoctrination.

Minute 4:00

Dident even remember that, that is one serius bit of evidence for the IT. I mean really, what else can that sentence mean other than that Harbinger is trying to Indoctrinate you?

Well, that you're fighting against the Reapers... For one.

[greywardencommander]

nyrocron wrote...

@Sammuthegreat: This would also perfectly fit the statement from the final hours app about the problems figuring out the In-Game-Mechanic for indoctrination. They found the perfect solution.

exactly odd in itself why they would dismiss it just because of that so to have people say this disproves the theory, rubbish it more or less says 'they couldn't do the in game mechanic so they extended it to the player' we are Shepard, s/he is the vessel of how we see the universe.

He doesn't realise he's being indoctrinated so we don't...not until we realise (i.e. post-game) do we see the fact that we were being indoctrinated all along, if we realise in game (e.g. something's up with this) so does Shepard and he becomes defiant and chooses destroy.

I'll explain why, Shepard is your vessel, the most engaging and  immersive vessel in gaming history. You only see what Shepard sees, hear what Shepard hears, feels (emotive in this case) what Shepard feels. You won't see you're being indoctrinated because Shepard doesn't.

Not until the end.

The two main things about the endings is enough to show this, it's so  obviously wrong the TIM - being Control and Paragon (a renegade character), Synthesis = Saren and Destroy is Renegade and is your plan
all along represented by Anderson a Paragon character and your mentor with the same ideology. That's odd in itself and is supposed to be enough to show the gamer even if they haven't picked up on all the subtle hints.

If you (and thus Shepard) realise you are being indoctrinated you select destroy and are rewarded with Shepard  breathing. If you don't realise (like Shepard) you choose Control or Synthesis and succumb (both you and Shepard) to the indoctrination.

Once you realise you've been indoctrinted (like Shepard) you suddenly realise all the things that should have been so obvious before (like in this thread).

The way the options are presented are odd as well. Destroy first, it's what Shepard wants but throw in the Geth, Relays and himself as suffering to steer himself away from that option. Second option - what the Reapers want him to do like TIM so they can control you select control and merge with the reapers (in reality they will control you, just like with TIM, his 'yes' when Shepard asks if they will control the reapers is very subtley a hesitation, why hesitate? because it's not true). Then he provides the magical third option, a compromise, merge synthetic and organic, this in reality is just merging with the Reapers just like Saren who until you show him otherwise thought synthesis was a good thing because it was neither control or destroy, a huge hint).

This is basic psychology, present the options using what they want first but make it so it seems like a bad choice, give your option and when they're still not convinced give them the magical compromise that really makes you happier than the other person because the person changed their mind and won't go with the option you don't want. Simple psychology.

Put it this way, indoctrination is subliminal messaging and making people susceptible to influence and suggestion (just like in the codex). Harbinger can't outright control you, no indoctrination does that not until you become a husk, Saren says you have to keep your mind or you're useless as an ally. Harbinger has to do the only thing he can, make you susceptible to the idea that destroying the Reapers is wrong so he veers you away from that and if you still won't accept control of the reapers because it's wrong he gives you his magic 'compromise' which in reality just makes you just as easy to influence to do what he wants (just like Saren with Sovereign). Indoctrination isn't outright control, never has been (in Mass Effect or in real life), it's impossible.

Someone else pointed out this isn't pinned under fan fiction - odd in itself.

In real world terms, EA lose nothing keeping the speculation going

if it was true the 'clarification content' is based on IT so already budgeted for.

People who traded their games in might still be inclined to get it again and have their fath restored. Most probably kept their games in the belief that Bioware had a trick up their sleeve because the 10 mins just didn't make sense.

'no such thing as bad publicity' they all say.

I would bet after the reveal (if true) it would go down in media, entertainment and more importantly gaming history. If nothing says what the twist was just that it was beautiful, amazing and brilliantly executed people otherwise not bothered would maybe go and buy all three games to find out just what the fuss was.

People who love the series, and thus the twist continue to invest in the series in new dlc and other merchandise, short term loss, long term gain.

Modifié par greywardencommander, 24 mars 2012 - 10:59 .

[Stigweird85]

Interesting idea Rastlin and with that new "Bioware" studio that has been launched not too far fetched as t hey are working on an RTS

That being said, wasn't Halo Wars an RTS? That wasn't that popular in the grand scheme of things so they may be alittle apprehensive.

[Terran235]

bigstig wrote...

@Terran235

I know, but they have also made it clear that Mass Effect 3 will not be the end of the franchise.

I would take the MMO but I doubt they would launch another MMO directly against themselves. The question is where would it go from here. Bioware would need a solution that keeps the relays in tact(The IT would allow this) After all the whole franchise is named after the technology in those realys.

I never really said it was the end of the franchise. I understand that mass effect will continue. But what if they do something similart to final fantasy. Completely new story that has nothing to do with shepard. Just the mass relays as the central story. I dont know just throwing out ideas. Mass Effect 4567910 11 12  etc wont need shepard.

[iwillkillfortali]

bigstig wrote...

Interesting idea Rastlin and with that new "Bioware" studio that has been launched not too far fetched as t hey are working on an RTS

That being said, wasn't Halo Wars an RTS? That wasn't that popular in the grand scheme of things so they may be alittle apprehensive.

C&C Generals thats what it is called.

[SavageLycan]

Right now, I'm still going along with this because it's the only ending that makes real sense. My greatest fear is that with this new 'closure' content Bioware will make it impossible while making the endings even more non-nonsensical and depressing. *sigh* Hold the Line.

[Stigweird85]

I would take that, but for any game to really work it'll need to be a prequel therefore few reapers(you could have one or two seeing as a few derelict reapers have been found in space) or the current ending can't happen as without relays there is no mass universe just solar systems.

After curing the genophage Mass Effect 4 could consist of the Krogan Rebellions again. Or it could focus on the Yagg(the shadow broker species) even the reapers didn't touch them.

[noobcannon]

Thomas Shepard wrote...

Can anyone please load an instance of mass effect with a save before the ending scenes and try to walk back towards the trees after Harby hits you with the beam and you enter the inner mind? Also try to walk back when the child makes you choose or at any other time in that scene.

unless someone beats me to it, i'll upload it. i did walk around at the part right after harbinger's blast and you eventually colapse and die. i also walked around at the part right after you encounter spaceboy and didn't find anything interesting that hasn't already been brought up.

[balance5050]

NikolaiShade wrote...

Alex_Dur4and wrote...

Hello everyone.

Ok! I've always found the ending too strange to be true. I made my research and did my own analysis of the ending in all possible ways. And I am now ready to make a stand...

I am 100% convinced in indoctrination attempt!!!

There! I said it and you can laugh at me all you like if it's not.

Don't worry you would be in good company, sad thing is, if it's true, a lot of people will never believe it was planned.

Lots of people I talk with have preemptivley said that already, it enrages me to no end that people refer to it as a "fanfic". Yeah that it... thousands of people wrote the exact same thing. Easiest. Fanfic. Ever.

But if the DLC doesn't acknowledge it then I guess it will be... but that will seriously make my head hurt that this was right under their nose.

[greywardencommander]

Crasher027 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Terimtetim wrote...

I don't know if it was shown already but the reaper you kill on Rannoch says this:
"Harbinger speaks of you. You Resist. But you will Fail." Kinda fits when you think of the Indoctrination.

Minute 4:00

Dident even remember that, that is one serius bit of evidence for the IT. I mean really, what else can that sentence mean other than that Harbinger is trying to Indoctrinate you?

Well, that you're fighting against the Reapers... For one.

beaten to it a long time ago but thrown with Harbinger's 'your mind will be mine' and it sounds more like a double meaning.
I'll explain why, Shepard is your vessel, the most engaging and immersive vessel in gaming history. You only see what Shepard sees, hear what Shepard hears, feels (emotive in this case) what Shepard feels. You won't see you're being indoctrinated because Shepard doesn't.
Not until the end.
The two main things about the endings is enough to show this, it's so obviously wrong the TIM - being Control and Paragon (a renegade character), Synthesis = Saren and Destroy is Renegade and is your plan all along represented by Anderson a Paragon character and your mentor with the same ideology. That's odd in itself and is supposed to be enough to show the gamer even if they haven't picked up on all the subtle hints.

If you (and thus Shepard) realise you are being indoctrinated you select destroy and are rewarded with Shepard breathing. If you don't realise (like Shepard) you choose Control or Synthesis and succumb (both you and Shepard) to the indoctrination.

Once you realise you've been indoctrinted (like Shepard) you suddenly realise all the things that should have been so obvious before (like in this thread).

[greywardencommander]

SavageLycan wrote...

Right now, I'm still going along with this because it's the only ending that makes real sense. My greatest fear is that with this new 'closure' content Bioware will make it impossible while making the endings even more non-nonsensical and depressing. *sigh* Hold the Line.

why ever would 'closure' content make this impossible? Surely closure content based on the idea you beat (or maybe didn't) indoctrination, the Reapers most important weapon, would be sensicle and amazing

[SavageLycan]

greywardencommander wrote...

SavageLycan wrote...

Right now, I'm still going along with this because it's the only ending that makes real sense. My greatest fear is that with this new 'closure' content Bioware will make it impossible while making the endings even more non-nonsensical and depressing. *sigh* Hold the Line.

why ever would 'closure' content make this impossible? Surely closure content based on the idea you beat (or maybe didn't) indoctrination, the Reapers most important weapon, would be sensicle and amazing

Well, closure content would make it impossible if they infer that you never were indoctrinated and all the stuff you went through was real. Then I would proceed to headdesk repeatedly and uninstall all my Mass Effect games. 

...unless you were being sarcastic and I totally missed it. I'm kind of out of it right now. Morale is at a low. 

Modifié par SavageLycan, 24 mars 2012 - 10:35 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

bigstig wrote...

I would take that, but for any game to really work it'll need to be a prequel therefore few reapers(you could have one or two seeing as a few derelict reapers have been found in space) or the current ending can't happen as without relays there is no mass universe just solar systems.

After curing the genophage Mass Effect 4 could consist of the Krogan Rebellions again. Or it could focus on the Yagg(the shadow broker species) even the reapers didn't touch them.

The Reapers dident touch the Yagg because the Yagg were not technologically advanced enough to be harvested. Remember the Reapers leave species alive in each cycle and these species rise and become the focus in the next cycle.

While the Yagg had been "uplifted" in a few single persons for the most part the species had not discovered any kind of space flight and remained beneath Reaper notice as such.

[Stigweird85]

NikolaiShade wrote...

Alex_Dur4and wrote...

Hello everyone.

Ok! I've always found the ending too strange to be true. I made my research and did my own analysis of the ending in all possible ways. And I am now ready to make a stand...

I am 100% convinced in indoctrination attempt!!!

There! I said it and you can laugh at me all you like if it's not.

Don't worry you would be in good company, sad thing is, if it's true, a lot of people will never believe it was planned.

You are probably right, you could  show them a physical thing that came with the game the revelead something under black light(for example) and they would still say it was added after the fact.

[Stigweird85]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

bigstig wrote...

I would take that, but for any game to really work it'll need to be a prequel therefore few reapers(you could have one or two seeing as a few derelict reapers have been found in space) or the current ending can't happen as without relays there is no mass universe just solar systems.

After curing the genophage Mass Effect 4 could consist of the Krogan Rebellions again. Or it could focus on the Yagg(the shadow broker species) even the reapers didn't touch them.

The Reapers dident touch the Yagg because the Yagg were not technologically advanced enough to be harvested. Remember the Reapers leave species alive in each cycle and these species rise and become the focus in the next cycle.

While the Yagg had been "uplifted" in a few single persons for the most part the species had not discovered any kind of space flight and remained beneath Reaper notice as such.

That's what I was meaning, the Yagg were being left alone in this cycle which means they will be around for whenever Mass Effect 4 comes knockiing

[Golferguy758]

The problem is, and it's a VERY big problem, is that they are playing a VERY dangerous game. Although I could very much appreciate a twist like this, it could very well blow up in their face.

The question comes down to: "Is this twist worth the risk to the bottom line?"

[nyrocron]

If they release it early enough it will be evident that it was planned. It would not have been possible to develop in just a few weeks. But yeah, some people will still dismiss that.

[Enraged Sympathizer]

Heres hoping for hallucination... Seriously, it's the only thing I've come across that actually made sense. Great job of noticing all of these details.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

bigstig wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

bigstig wrote...

I would take that, but for any game to really work it'll need to be a prequel therefore few reapers(you could have one or two seeing as a few derelict reapers have been found in space) or the current ending can't happen as without relays there is no mass universe just solar systems.

After curing the genophage Mass Effect 4 could consist of the Krogan Rebellions again. Or it could focus on the Yagg(the shadow broker species) even the reapers didn't touch them.

The Reapers dident touch the Yagg because the Yagg were not technologically advanced enough to be harvested. Remember the Reapers leave species alive in each cycle and these species rise and become the focus in the next cycle.

While the Yagg had been "uplifted" in a few single persons for the most part the species had not discovered any kind of space flight and remained beneath Reaper notice as such.

That's what I was meaning, the Yagg were being left alone in this cycle which means they will be around for whenever Mass Effect 4 comes knockiing

Yeah but the fact that they dont have species wide Space flight makes me think its unlikely to see them outside cameos. Though offcourse them gaining space flight across the species could be a central plot.

[Stigweird85]

Well if the pull this off their fans will love them for it(maybe not the fair weather ones) for life.

As for the bottom line, I would be curious about what this has actually cost them. Very little I suspect. Even if people return it to the retailers for a refund. The retailers won't get there money back from EA. Those who wanted it probably purchased it a launch a few sales may have been lost due to the bad publicity but even more have probably been gained due to the extra publicity.

When was the last time a game made it onto every single gaming news site and even some high profile non gaming sites(BBC news covered the story)

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Golferguy758 wrote...

The problem is, and it's a VERY big problem, is that they are playing a VERY dangerous game. Although I could very much appreciate a twist like this, it could very well blow up in their face.

The question comes down to: "Is this twist worth the risk to the bottom line?"

I dont really think that is an option anymore. With the ending as it is and the announcement that we will learn more in April the dices are pretty much already thrown on that matter.

All it comes down to now is two things i you ask me:

If or not Bioware planned this all along and how they present it in April.

Only the last part can be changed at this moment.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 24 mars 2012 - 10:48 .

[greywardencommander]

SavageLycan wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

SavageLycan wrote...

Right now, I'm still going along with this because it's the only ending that makes real sense. My greatest fear is that with this new 'closure' content Bioware will make it impossible while making the endings even more non-nonsensical and depressing. *sigh* Hold the Line.

why ever would 'closure' content make this impossible? Surely closure content based on the idea you beat (or maybe didn't) indoctrination, the Reapers most important weapon, would be sensicle and amazing

Well, closure content would make it impossible if they infer that you never were indoctrinated and all the stuff you went through was real. Then I would proceed to headdesk repeatedly and uninstall all my Mass Effect games. 

...unless you were being sarcastic and I totally missed it. I'm kind of out of it right now. Morale is at a low. 

I was pointing out that Indoctrination Theory only works IF 'closure content' IS based on this idea, that's what i'm saying, so I agree with you I was just pointing out (and thought you were one) that them saying 'clarification etc' is not saying IT is false.

If their content is 'this is how Joker escaped etc' I agree it would be awful and I would give up with ME

[Stigweird85]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

bigstig wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

bigstig wrote...

I would take that, but for any game to really work it'll need to be a prequel therefore few reapers(you could have one or two seeing as a few derelict reapers have been found in space) or the current ending can't happen as without relays there is no mass universe just solar systems.

After curing the genophage Mass Effect 4 could consist of the Krogan Rebellions again. Or it could focus on the Yagg(the shadow broker species) even the reapers didn't touch them.

The Reapers dident touch the Yagg because the Yagg were not technologically advanced enough to be harvested. Remember the Reapers leave species alive in each cycle and these species rise and become the focus in the next cycle.

While the Yagg had been "uplifted" in a few single persons for the most part the species had not discovered any kind of space flight and remained beneath Reaper notice as such.

That's what I was meaning, the Yagg were being left alone in this cycle which means they will be around for whenever Mass Effect 4 comes knockiing

Yeah but the fact that they dont have species wide Space flight makes me think its unlikely to see them outside cameos. Though offcourse them gaining space flight across the species could be a central plot.

should the endings stand as they are then space flight is near pointless as no relays to travel through anyway.

Here is an idea; IT true relays not destroyed etc. Krogan Rebellions happen again, you won't be able to reintroduce the genophage so what happens? You give the Yagg flight. The salarians were already invesitgating the possibility on SurKessh had a couple there as well. A war between the Krogan and the Yagg that could get interesting.

It could cause a galatic civil war. Some would support the Krogan due to their help with the reapers and Rachni, others while not supporting the Krogan could be against uplifting the Yagg and it was that exact practice that caused the Krogan rebellion. classic case of history repeating itself.

Actually thinking about it, it would make good fodder for an RTS