57139 réponses à ce sujet

[crimsontotem]

has anyone twetted to devs or pr guys about 1M1? what the heck is that thing doing in 'reaper constructed' building?

[greywardencommander]

greywardencommander wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

After looking at the game's files for some time I really do not know what to believe anymore. I was relatively sure that IT is true but now I don't know... everything just fits the literal (and bad) ending.
Motivate me!

Anyways, something that may be interesting, I don't know if it tells anything but I looked at the creation dates of the video files:

First End03 Scene (End03_Device_Dock) was created on 2011/12/16
First color explosion (End03_G_SphereExp) (green) was created on 2011/12/30
The rest of the explosions are scattered until 2012/01/07 (End03_LondonGreenOutro)
The last video file created was (End02_Cit_Flower) on 2012/01/18
The Shepard_Alive scenes were created on 2012/01/17 (near end)

The only thing that we can be sure of is that they knew that they would make those color explosions in 2011. But most of the game would have been finished by then so I think all in all it tells us nothing. Just wanted to let you know.

That means nothing really. They might have wanted have always wanted the crucible stuff in 2011 to be a fight against indoctrination in literal gaming terms (including overcoming it) but an earlier part of the game (I.e. There might well be a few hours left in dlc because it's not the end) as well but they hadn't worked out how to make it work in gameplay so they decided to make it the current end and release it (with the promise of dlc to show it's not the end) but made the bits leading up to it 'in your head' with the three explosions etc and then proceeded to work out the final parts of the 'how to make your Shepard indoctrinated' and then overcome (e.g. in dialogue and simple mechanics at the beginning) it in the dlc. They could have said - because we can't have Shepard literally indoctrinated in gaming terms let's spread it to the player as well and have them realise it's not the end and he's just overcome indoctrination (they assume you choose destroy but are working out how to cater to those who didn't) and the story be continued. They delayed the game both to perfect the dlc because of this and to work out how the hell to work out the pr stuff of releasing an end that's not the end...

Also just a thought what it they decided to make the DLC by using MP and MP DLC etc to make money to cover the cost of free DLC (they had free DLC in ME1 so it happens) to justify it to EA and THAT'S why MP was added on

[Caz Tirin]

estebanus wrote...

Holy ****, something is really weird here. I played the scene again and amlified the sound so that I could clearly hear the gunshot again.
This may just be my mind playing with me, but I think this "echo" after the gunshot is actually saying something.
I think that the echo said "Shepard" each time I shot. I extra amplified the sound so that I could hear it more clearly, and I am pretty sure the echo says "Shepard"!

This actually happens with several guns throughout the game and also in MP.  It's not exclusive to the SP ending.  Many times I thought someone was trying to get my attention while playing because it sounded like someone calling out a name (though not audible enough to be heard clearly).  Benefit of playing with sound-dampening surround-sound headphones.  hehe  But it's not exclusive to the ending.

[estebanus]

Caz Tirin wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Holy ****, something is really weird here. I played the scene again and amlified the sound so that I could clearly hear the gunshot again.
This may just be my mind playing with me, but I think this "echo" after the gunshot is actually saying something.
I think that the echo said "Shepard" each time I shot. I extra amplified the sound so that I could hear it more clearly, and I am pretty sure the echo says "Shepard"!

This actually happens with several guns throughout the game and also in MP.  It's not exclusive to the SP ending.  Many times I thought someone was trying to get my attention while playing because it sounded like someone calling out a name (though not audible enough to be heard clearly).  Benefit of playing with sound-dampening surround-sound headphones.  hehe  But it's not exclusive to the ending.

Oh? I haven't noticed it anywhere else in SP nor MP. I also extra shot around with it a lot before going up to Anderson to make sure, however it wasn't there. When I fired my pistol in the ancient ruins of Tuchanka, I could hear the echo, however it really just sounded like a bullet, nothing else. In the final chamber, it actually sounds like the echo of a person, not like the repercussion of a fired off-bullet.
Not trying to insult you or anything, I'm just saying that I've never heard the gunshot sound like that before in the game.

[Abdul_777]

estebanus wrote...

Holy ****, something is really weird here. I played the scene again and amlified the sound so that I could clearly hear the gunshot again.
This may just be my mind playing with me, but I think this "echo" after the gunshot is actually saying something.
I think that the echo said "Shepard" each time I shot. I extra amplified the sound so that I could hear it more clearly, and I am pretty sure the echo says "Shepard"!

Turned off music to hear the echo,I didnt hear Shepard,but the first part of it sounds like a big sigh
 to me and the 2nd part is like air being vacuumed or whatever,theres some more to it if you reload,funny thing is both the reload and firing sound echo sounds the same with reload being like half a second longer.Either way it sounds off. /tinfoil hat on
If you really wanna stretch it,the 2nd part can be heard as a distorted "wake up",but really thats a long shot,bottom line is the echo sounds off from the rest of the game sounds

small edit: (btw this was on female Shep,dont have my male Shep at that point yet)

Modifié par Abdul_777, 25 mars 2012 - 02:30 .

[Abram730]

greywardencommander wrote...

That is interesting thank you for that information. I doubt anybody remembers but I posted that I am an MA Psychology student particularly interested in Social Psychology so my approach was similar to yours in using what I know. 

A very long time ago after someone pointed about we've been conditioned (basic psychology again) to know blue is good red is bad across the series and are rewarded as such. Thus it is odd they should suddenly be reversed with TIM and Anderson (a renegade being blue and a paragon red). Thus at the time I pointed out to back the point up that it's stroop test. In the stroop test they deliberately mess with your primitive and basic processing (colour, shapes, structure of a word) to make us rely on our higher level processing (semantics mainly I.e meaning). In the stroop task they have the word green and make it the colour red. They then ask people to say if the colour is green or red, you're supposed to say red but a lot of people say green because they read the word rather than the colour. They do it in other ways but it's all based on the same idea, disrupt the basic processing to make you think about it. Sound familiar?
They make you think about the choice (including the walk so you commit to it rather than a dialogue choice) because you're supposed to look at the colours and then that it was TIM and Anderson representing the choices and realise it's deliberately wrong to make you see you need to destroy like Anderson. They do this deliberately because everything else had to be subtle and might not have been enough of a hint. Why because you're not supposed to know you're in the process of being indoctrinated like I say in that post you quote.

Yes, subconscious processes can alter a persons perceptions of a situation.
If you hand a girl a hot cup of coffee and make a come on.. she is more likely to think the comment is hot.. The comment is hot because the coffee is hot. Give her a warm cup if you want her to think you are warm and genuine. Even the chair a person sits in alters their perception, a Hard ass who will not compromise or a softy who is a push over. Professor John Bargh at Yale did some studies on this.

When people know, it stops working. You may notice car dealers putting you in a soft chair and offering you a warm cup of coffee.. LOL and that blows the effect if you know.

[Mr. Mistake]

So what the hell is this PAX thing, and when is it gonna happen?

[Wounded_Wolf]

Abdul_777 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Holy ****, something is really weird here. I played the scene again and amlified the sound so that I could clearly hear the gunshot again.
This may just be my mind playing with me, but I think this "echo" after the gunshot is actually saying something.
I think that the echo said "Shepard" each time I shot. I extra amplified the sound so that I could hear it more clearly, and I am pretty sure the echo says "Shepard"!

Turned off music to hear the echo,I didnt hear Shepard,but the first part of it sounds like a big sigh
 to me and the 2nd part is like air being vacuumed or whatever,theres some more to it if you reload,funny thing is both the reload and firing sound echo sounds the same with reload being like half a second longer.Either way it sounds off. /tinfoil hat on
If you really wanna stretch it,the 2nd part can be heard as a distorted "wake up",but really thats a long shot,bottom line is the echo sounds off from the rest of the game sounds

The fact that there's any sound at all in that whole scene is off. Last time I checked a science book space was a vacuum (although the mass effect lore may explain something about the outside of the citadel being different, can't quite remember)

[estebanus]

Wounded_Wolf wrote...

Abdul_777 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Holy ****, something is really weird here. I played the scene again and amlified the sound so that I could clearly hear the gunshot again.
This may just be my mind playing with me, but I think this "echo" after the gunshot is actually saying something.
I think that the echo said "Shepard" each time I shot. I extra amplified the sound so that I could hear it more clearly, and I am pretty sure the echo says "Shepard"!

Turned off music to hear the echo,I didnt hear Shepard,but the first part of it sounds like a big sigh
 to me and the 2nd part is like air being vacuumed or whatever,theres some more to it if you reload,funny thing is both the reload and firing sound echo sounds the same with reload being like half a second longer.Either way it sounds off. /tinfoil hat on
If you really wanna stretch it,the 2nd part can be heard as a distorted "wake up",but really thats a long shot,bottom line is the echo sounds off from the rest of the game sounds

The fact that there's any sound at all in that whole scene is off. Last time I checked a science book space was a vacuum (although the mass effect lore may explain something about the outside of the citadel being different, can't quite remember)

It's been like that in any sci-fi series. I mean, the scene in Star Wars: A new hope where the death star is destroyed would be a lot more boring if we didn't hear anything. Same goes for Star Trek, when there are space battles. There will always be sound in Sci-fi, no matter if it makes sense or not.

[nyrocron]

estebanus wrote...

Wounded_Wolf wrote...

Abdul_777 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Holy ****, something is really weird here. I played the scene again and amlified the sound so that I could clearly hear the gunshot again.
This may just be my mind playing with me, but I think this "echo" after the gunshot is actually saying something.
I think that the echo said "Shepard" each time I shot. I extra amplified the sound so that I could hear it more clearly, and I am pretty sure the echo says "Shepard"!

Turned off music to hear the echo,I didnt hear Shepard,but the first part of it sounds like a big sigh
 to me and the 2nd part is like air being vacuumed or whatever,theres some more to it if you reload,funny thing is both the reload and firing sound echo sounds the same with reload being like half a second longer.Either way it sounds off. /tinfoil hat on
If you really wanna stretch it,the 2nd part can be heard as a distorted "wake up",but really thats a long shot,bottom line is the echo sounds off from the rest of the game sounds

The fact that there's any sound at all in that whole scene is off. Last time I checked a science book space was a vacuum (although the mass effect lore may explain something about the outside of the citadel being different, can't quite remember)

It's been like that in any sci-fi series. I mean, the scene in Star Wars: A new hope where the death star is destroyed would be a lot more boring if we didn't hear anything. Same goes for Star Trek, when there are space battles. There will always be sound in Sci-fi, no matter if it makes sense or not.

Nah, there are some series without or with few sound in space and that works too.

[estebanus]

nyrocron wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Wounded_Wolf wrote...

Abdul_777 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Holy ****, something is really weird here. I played the scene again and amlified the sound so that I could clearly hear the gunshot again.
This may just be my mind playing with me, but I think this "echo" after the gunshot is actually saying something.
I think that the echo said "Shepard" each time I shot. I extra amplified the sound so that I could hear it more clearly, and I am pretty sure the echo says "Shepard"!

Turned off music to hear the echo,I didnt hear Shepard,but the first part of it sounds like a big sigh
 to me and the 2nd part is like air being vacuumed or whatever,theres some more to it if you reload,funny thing is both the reload and firing sound echo sounds the same with reload being like half a second longer.Either way it sounds off. /tinfoil hat on
If you really wanna stretch it,the 2nd part can be heard as a distorted "wake up",but really thats a long shot,bottom line is the echo sounds off from the rest of the game sounds

The fact that there's any sound at all in that whole scene is off. Last time I checked a science book space was a vacuum (although the mass effect lore may explain something about the outside of the citadel being different, can't quite remember)

It's been like that in any sci-fi series. I mean, the scene in Star Wars: A new hope where the death star is destroyed would be a lot more boring if we didn't hear anything. Same goes for Star Trek, when there are space battles. There will always be sound in Sci-fi, no matter if it makes sense or not.

Nah, there are some series without or with few sound in space and that works too.

Which ones? I'm mainly talking about those series that put a lot of weight on space battles, which ones are you talking about?

[Wounded_Wolf]

estebanus wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Wounded_Wolf wrote...

Abdul_777 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Holy ****, something is really weird here. I played the scene again and amlified the sound so that I could clearly hear the gunshot again.
This may just be my mind playing with me, but I think this "echo" after the gunshot is actually saying something.
I think that the echo said "Shepard" each time I shot. I extra amplified the sound so that I could hear it more clearly, and I am pretty sure the echo says "Shepard"!

Turned off music to hear the echo,I didnt hear Shepard,but the first part of it sounds like a big sigh
 to me and the 2nd part is like air being vacuumed or whatever,theres some more to it if you reload,funny thing is both the reload and firing sound echo sounds the same with reload being like half a second longer.Either way it sounds off. /tinfoil hat on
If you really wanna stretch it,the 2nd part can be heard as a distorted "wake up",but really thats a long shot,bottom line is the echo sounds off from the rest of the game sounds

The fact that there's any sound at all in that whole scene is off. Last time I checked a science book space was a vacuum (although the mass effect lore may explain something about the outside of the citadel being different, can't quite remember)

It's been like that in any sci-fi series. I mean, the scene in Star Wars: A new hope where the death star is destroyed would be a lot more boring if we didn't hear anything. Same goes for Star Trek, when there are space battles. There will always be sound in Sci-fi, no matter if it makes sense or not.

Nah, there are some series without or with few sound in space and that works too.

Which ones? I'm mainly talking about those series that put a lot of weight on space battles, which ones are you talking about?

The film 2001 had no sound in space, and i think maybe Alien had little or no sound (although it had smoke, which was pretty funny). I admit though that with the mass effect games you've got to have sound in space for all those really cool ship battles (and to hear Joker yahooing when he does a crazy manoevre)

[estebanus]

Wounded_Wolf wrote...

estebanus wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Wounded_Wolf wrote...

Abdul_777 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Holy ****, something is really weird here. I played the scene again and amlified the sound so that I could clearly hear the gunshot again.
This may just be my mind playing with me, but I think this "echo" after the gunshot is actually saying something.
I think that the echo said "Shepard" each time I shot. I extra amplified the sound so that I could hear it more clearly, and I am pretty sure the echo says "Shepard"!

Turned off music to hear the echo,I didnt hear Shepard,but the first part of it sounds like a big sigh
 to me and the 2nd part is like air being vacuumed or whatever,theres some more to it if you reload,funny thing is both the reload and firing sound echo sounds the same with reload being like half a second longer.Either way it sounds off. /tinfoil hat on
If you really wanna stretch it,the 2nd part can be heard as a distorted "wake up",but really thats a long shot,bottom line is the echo sounds off from the rest of the game sounds

The fact that there's any sound at all in that whole scene is off. Last time I checked a science book space was a vacuum (although the mass effect lore may explain something about the outside of the citadel being different, can't quite remember)

It's been like that in any sci-fi series. I mean, the scene in Star Wars: A new hope where the death star is destroyed would be a lot more boring if we didn't hear anything. Same goes for Star Trek, when there are space battles. There will always be sound in Sci-fi, no matter if it makes sense or not.

Nah, there are some series without or with few sound in space and that works too.

Which ones? I'm mainly talking about those series that put a lot of weight on space battles, which ones are you talking about?

The film 2001 had no sound in space, and i think maybe Alien had little or no sound (although it had smoke, which was pretty funny). I admit though that with the mass effect games you've got to have sound in space for all those really cool ship battles (and to hear Joker yahooing when he does a crazy manoevre)

Exactly my point. For a sci-fi game that puts a lot of emphasis on space battles, sound is a necessity.
Anyway, let's focus on the indoctrination theory instead, lest this thread is closed down because of too much off-topic talk here, all right?

[Mich-cz]

I think you are making too much from that gunshot and its echo - I played the part again, turned off music and it's clearly some of metalic sound not a voice /notice that every sound there has this sort of strange echo, it's intentional/.

however, there are some barely audible voices and whispers for most part of ending stage - do you think bioware may be using some sort of subliminal communication technique in there?

[estebanus]

Mich-cz wrote...

I think you are making too much from that gunshot and its echo - I played the part again, turned off music and it's clearly some of metalic sound not a voice /notice that every sound there has this sort of strange echo, it's intentional/.

however, there are some barely audible voices and whispers for most part of ending stage - do you think bioware may be using some sort of subliminal communication technique in there?

 

I never said it actually meant something. I just thought it was worth bringing up!

[greywardencommander]

estebanus wrote...

Wounded_Wolf wrote...

estebanus wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Wounded_Wolf wrote...

Abdul_777 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Holy ****, something is really weird here. I played the scene again and amlified the sound so that I could clearly hear the gunshot again.
This may just be my mind playing with me, but I think this "echo" after the gunshot is actually saying something.
I think that the echo said "Shepard" each time I shot. I extra amplified the sound so that I could hear it more clearly, and I am pretty sure the echo says "Shepard"!

Turned off music to hear the echo,I didnt hear Shepard,but the first part of it sounds like a big sigh
 to me and the 2nd part is like air being vacuumed or whatever,theres some more to it if you reload,funny thing is both the reload and firing sound echo sounds the same with reload being like half a second longer.Either way it sounds off. /tinfoil hat on
If you really wanna stretch it,the 2nd part can be heard as a distorted "wake up",but really thats a long shot,bottom line is the echo sounds off from the rest of the game sounds

The fact that there's any sound at all in that whole scene is off. Last time I checked a science book space was a vacuum (although the mass effect lore may explain something about the outside of the citadel being different, can't quite remember)

It's been like that in any sci-fi series. I mean, the scene in Star Wars: A new hope where the death star is destroyed would be a lot more boring if we didn't hear anything. Same goes for Star Trek, when there are space battles. There will always be sound in Sci-fi, no matter if it makes sense or not.

Nah, there are some series without or with few sound in space and that works too.

Which ones? I'm mainly talking about those series that put a lot of weight on space battles, which ones are you talking about?

The film 2001 had no sound in space, and i think maybe Alien had little or no sound (although it had smoke, which was pretty funny). I admit though that with the mass effect games you've got to have sound in space for all those really cool ship battles (and to hear Joker yahooing when he does a crazy manoevre)

Exactly my point. For a sci-fi game that puts a lot of emphasis on space battles, sound is a necessity.
Anyway, let's focus on the indoctrination theory instead, lest this thread is closed down because of too much off-topic talk here, all right?

Not that I think it matters because not hearing anything in Mass Effect when showing in Space etc would be a bit annoying lol but what do you mean re. Joker?

I get what you mean in terms of explosions and gun fire when in space battles etc but surely in the citadel (in space but not 'in the vacuum bit' and on ships (such as with Joker etc) we can hear that because they're not in the vaccuum. We hear it because they're in the ship and we hear it outside the ship in the scene because it just makes sense and it's obvious you can't literally hear it outside of the ship or are you saying in reality an astronaut can't hear anything on a spaceship as that makes a lot of conversations in ME and just about every sci-fi pointless!

Just for clarification because I see no problem showing Joker whooping and us hearing it because he's on the ship and we're just seeing the view of the battle while he's saying it for effect (if you see what I mean)
Sorry if you don't understand my little ramble it's 4:30am lol

[greywardencommander]

estebanus wrote...

Wounded_Wolf wrote...

estebanus wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Wounded_Wolf wrote...

Abdul_777 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Holy ****, something is really weird here. I played the scene again and amlified the sound so that I could clearly hear the gunshot again.
This may just be my mind playing with me, but I think this "echo" after the gunshot is actually saying something.
I think that the echo said "Shepard" each time I shot. I extra amplified the sound so that I could hear it more clearly, and I am pretty sure the echo says "Shepard"!

Turned off music to hear the echo,I didnt hear Shepard,but the first part of it sounds like a big sigh
 to me and the 2nd part is like air being vacuumed or whatever,theres some more to it if you reload,funny thing is both the reload and firing sound echo sounds the same with reload being like half a second longer.Either way it sounds off. /tinfoil hat on
If you really wanna stretch it,the 2nd part can be heard as a distorted "wake up",but really thats a long shot,bottom line is the echo sounds off from the rest of the game sounds

The fact that there's any sound at all in that whole scene is off. Last time I checked a science book space was a vacuum (although the mass effect lore may explain something about the outside of the citadel being different, can't quite remember)

It's been like that in any sci-fi series. I mean, the scene in Star Wars: A new hope where the death star is destroyed would be a lot more boring if we didn't hear anything. Same goes for Star Trek, when there are space battles. There will always be sound in Sci-fi, no matter if it makes sense or not.

Nah, there are some series without or with few sound in space and that works too.

Which ones? I'm mainly talking about those series that put a lot of weight on space battles, which ones are you talking about?

The film 2001 had no sound in space, and i think maybe Alien had little or no sound (although it had smoke, which was pretty funny). I admit though that with the mass effect games you've got to have sound in space for all those really cool ship battles (and to hear Joker yahooing when he does a crazy manoevre)

Exactly my point. For a sci-fi game that puts a lot of emphasis on space battles, sound is a necessity.
Anyway, let's focus on the indoctrination theory instead, lest this thread is closed down because of too much off-topic talk here, all right?

Not that I think it matters because not hearing anything in Mass Effect when showing in Space etc would be a bit annoying lol but what do you mean re. Joker?

I get what you mean in terms of explosions and gun fire when in space battles etc but surely in the citadel (in space but not 'in the vacuum bit' and on ships (such as with Joker etc) we can hear that because they're not in the vaccuum. We hear it because they're in the ship and we hear it outside the ship in the scene because it just makes sense and it's obvious you can't literally hear it outside of the ship or are you saying in reality an astronaut can't hear anything on a spaceship as that makes a lot of conversations in ME and just about every sci-fi pointless!

Just for clarification because I see no problem showing Joker whooping and us hearing it because he's on the ship and we're just seeing the view of the battle while he's saying it for effect (if you see what I mean)
Sorry if you don't understand my little ramble it's 4:30am lol

[HunterKYA]

greywardencommander wrote...

My main thoughts that have nothing to do with any of the clues really, other than one the Final Hours App does nothing for me except suggest that IT is true. It says explicitly the scene they talk about was scrapped because of a GAMEPLAY MECHANIC, i.e. not because of the idea. Why would they dismiss the entire concept when it's clearly important to them to have Shepard overcome indoctrination (ME3's Ilos and Omega Relay, i.e. doing the 'impossible')

So to have people say this disproves the theory, rubbish it more or less says 'they couldn't do the in game mechanic so they extended it to the player' we are Shepard, s/he is the vessel of how we see the universe.

From a psychological perspective these are my ideas:

He doesn't realise he's being indoctrinated so we don't...not until we realise (i.e. post-game) do we see the fact that we were being indoctrinated all along, if we realise in game (e.g. something's up with this) so does Shepard and he becomes defiant and chooses destroy.

I'll explain why, Shepard is your vessel, the most engaging and  immersive vessel in gaming history. You only see what Shepard sees, hear what Shepard hears, feels (emotive in this case) what Shepard feels. You
won't see you're being indoctrinated because Shepard doesn't.

Not until the end - this is crucial to have the impact they want.

The two main things about the endings is enough to show this, it's so  obviously wrong the TIM - being Control and Paragon (a renegade character), Synthesis = Saren and Destroy is Renegade and is your plan
all along represented by Anderson a Paragon character and your mentor with the same ideology. That's odd in itself and is supposed to be enough to show the gamer even if they haven't picked up on all the subtle hints already outlined in this theory. I.e. even if you're not paying attention enough, the ending is enough to make you go blimey this is just wrong.

If you (and thus Shepard) realise you are being indoctrinated you select destroy and are rewarded with Shepard  breathing. If you don't realise (like Shepard) you choose Control or Synthesis and succumb (both you and
Shepard) to the indoctrination.

Once you realise you've been indoctrinted (like Shepard) you suddenly realise all the things that should have been so obvious before (like in this thread) e.g. the child, the dreams, the headaches, the growls, the humming, all the in game conversations such as Javik saying the VI didn't notice the 'sleeping agents', Thane's poem, the fact the final 10 mins is based on Shepard's memories, the whole 10 mins full stop, conversations with your crew making out something's different about you and they're worried, the Prothean VI shutting down after a few conversations we assume it's because of Kai Leng could be because of us etc. All the clues are there but we ignore them assuming they're meaning something else at the time UNTIL WE LOOK AGAIN IN A NEW LIGHT and thus Shepard remains defiant and chooses destroy.

The way the options are presented are odd as well. Destroy first, it's what Shepard wants but throw in the Geth, Relays and himself as suffering to steer himself away from that option. Second option - what the Reapers
want him to do like TIM so they can control you select control and merge with the reapers (in reality they will control you, just like with TIM, his 'yes' when Shepard asks if they will control the reapers is very subtley a hesitation, why hesitate? because it's not true). Then he provides the magical third option, a compromise, merge synthetic and organic, this in reality is just merging with the Reapers just like Saren who until you show him otherwise thought synthesis was a good thing because it was neither control or destroy, a huge hint).

This is basic psychology, present the options using what they want first but make it so it seems like a bad choice, give your option and when they're still not convinced give them the magical compromise that really makes you happier than the other person because the person changed their mind and won't go with the option you don't want. Simple psychology.

Put it this way, indoctrination is subliminal messaging and making people susceptible to influence and suggestion (just like in the codex). Harbinger can't outright control you, no indoctrination does that not until you become a husk, Saren says you have to keep your mind or you're useless as an ally. Harbinger has to do the only thing he can, make you susceptible to the idea that destroying the Reapers is wrong so he veers you away from that and if you still won't accept control of the reapers because it's wrong he gives you his magic 'compromise' which in reality just makes you just as easy to influence to do what he wants (just like Saren with Sovereign).  Indoctrination isn't outright control, never has been (in Mass Effect or in real life), it's impossible until they become husks (or willing husks in terms of collectors, assuming control etc).

In real world terms:

Someone else pointed out this isn't pinned under fan fiction - odd in itself.

In real world terms, EA lose nothing keeping the speculation going, tweets to this thread, cryptic clues etc that all's not what it seems.

if it was true the 'clarification content' is based on IT so already budgeted for.

People who traded their games in might still be inclined to get it again and have their fath restored. Most probably kept their games in the belief  that Bioware had a trick up their sleeve because the 10 mins just didn't make sense.

'no such thing as bad publicity' they all say.

I would bet after the reveal (if true) it would go down in media, entertainment and more importantly gaming history. If nothing says what the twist was just that it was beautiful, amazing and brilliantly executed people otherwise not bothered would maybe go and buy all three games to find out just what the fuss was.

People who love the series, and thus the twist continue to invest in the series in new dlc and other merchandise, short term loss, long term gain.

Truly, one of most enjoyable reads in this thread since the OP.  I commend you for putting forth all the thought and effort into that post. 

[masster blaster]

As anyone noticed that when you talk to the Illusive man during one of your encounters that if you chose the renegade choice Shepard say ' your being indoctrinated' and the Illusive Man replies to Shepard " and so are you".

[Radwar]

The indoctrination theory is great, I hope the upcoming DLC starts off when Shepard wakes up in rubble and we get to continue the fight against the Reapers and then get the ending that is affected by all our decisions.

Modifié par Radwar, 25 mars 2012 - 03:35 .

[Babyberry]

Sorry if this has been posted/answered before:

If this theory is true, I wonder how those who chose the Green and Blue ending will break their Shepard's Indoctrination. Would they have to replay that part of the game?

[ref]

Babyberry wrote...

Sorry if this has been posted/answered before:

If this theory is true, I wonder how those who chose the Green and Blue ending will break their Shepard's Indoctrination. Would they have to replay that part of the game?

Well, the "post-game" save is right before the final mission, however that can easilly be countered with the statement that BioWare wanted to make DLC before the game ended, but technically it makes sense if the IT was true as well.

[Martukis]

masster blaster wrote...

As anyone noticed that when you talk to the Illusive man during one of your encounters that if you chose the renegade choice Shepard say ' your being indoctrinated' and the Illusive Man replies to Shepard " and so are you".

 
Unfortunately, there is nothing so direct - Shep says "Don't you see, you're being manipulated!" and TIM responds along the lines of "And you're no better, fighting a war you have no hope of winning, against a threat no one will acknowledge."

As to save games, there is actually a "NewGamePlus.pcsav" generated at the end of the crucible (when the choice is made) which cannot be loaded by the game, but is used when a new game plus is started.

Modifié par Martukis, 25 mars 2012 - 03:44 .

[Babyberry]

Refara wrote...

Babyberry wrote...

Sorry if this has been posted/answered before:

If this theory is true, I wonder how those who chose the Green and Blue ending will break their Shepard's Indoctrination. Would they have to replay that part of the game?

Well, the "post-game" save is right before the final mission, however that can easilly be countered with the statement that BioWare wanted to make DLC before the game ended, but technically it makes sense if the IT was true as well.

So I guess it would lead to a Critial Mission Failure, or "The Future Refuses to Change" sort of screen, which makes the player try one of the other endings.

It's going to take a lot of work, that's for sure.

[greywardencommander]

Babyberry wrote...

Sorry if this has been posted/answered before:

If this theory is true, I wonder how those who chose the Green and Blue ending will break their Shepard's Indoctrination. Would they have to replay that part of the game?

My thread discusses that very idea (in my signature) you have to read the big long post why I think it's true using basic psychology for the in game ramifications of the last scene (i.e I don't really care about the in game clues it's all in the last scene) and why psychology means EA lose nothing by keeping the speculation going and why doing it this way is good business. Once you get through all that I talk about all the possibilities based on your final choice, EMS and previous choice (mainly geth vs quarian outcome)

If you like what I've said so far and enjoy it I'd encourage everyone to have a read