57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziggeh]

greywardencommander wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

NikolaiShade wrote...

@Ziggeh

Sorry, I didn't make myself as clear as I wanted.

IF the Indoctrination Theory is right and you choose Control or Synthesys it does not mean you can't continue to play (as I said before, theese are just my speculations)

Example: after the Catlyst scene you keep fighting but in a critical point you have to chose if you want to surrender to full indoctrination or fight against it. First case, renegade interrupt, Shepard takes down his squadmates or they kill him; second case, Shepard kills himself, via a paragon interrupt maybe, but he will be remembered as a hero nonetheless.

Again, chances are 50/50 for the Indoctrination Theory, either way we'll have to wait to know what happens next.

I'm not saying they can't continute and offer other choices, I'm saying that they would be offering you to make a choice that doesn't happen. If I ask if you want tea or coffee, and then bring you a steaming hot mug of bacon and tell you that you didn't actually get to choose between tea and coffee, you would a) be greatful for the bacon and confused.

you seem to miss the point that I.T has long gone past whether it's intended I merely wanted to address what you said re. media. I.T. is now the easiest way to fix or 'clarify' the endings without retconning the end (by making you have to choose destroy or whatever) and can incorporate all endings.

No, I understand that (though not how that post references it in any way), I'm saying that it raises other issues that need to be addressed, otherwise it would be fairly futile.

[JTP117]

thePredator50 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

NikolaiShade wrote...

tomhagen27 wrote...

http://i39.tinypic.com/1gnlw2.jpg

probably already in this thread but if it isn't have a look. be warned, red part is spoiler-free, the blue parts show the future of the mass effect series (from what i have heard, will no read. i hate spoilers)

If I'm not mistaken this comes from the same source (4chan) as "The Truth" DLC.
There are some minor and major inconsistencies but, at this time, all is possible.
To quote a wise vampire: the coin is still turning.

not sure I trust anything that originates off 4chan lol

I agree, Bioware has already had to discredit other "Leaks" from 4chan in the last few weeks that turned out to be complete fan fabrication

4Chan had its share of spot-on rumors as well.

Yes but this really isn't a rumor, it seems more like another faked leak from and "official source" that fails to give any valid identity which many of us have seen many time before

[IronSabbath88]

Bah, I don't believe that silly leak for a second.

First off, Elcor, Volus and Hanar squadmates but not a single Human, Drell, Turian, hell even Batarian? Right there I call bull.

Secondly, this pretty much renders Synthesis and Control moot with they decide to go with "atmospheric re-entry" which in itself is just outright stupid. NOBODY can survive that crap. You mean Shepard survives now with no helmet and burned up armor but he cant survive WITH armor? Give me a break.

IF this turns out to be true (big if... BIG if, I highly doubt it) then I really am done with BioWare because to me, this is nonsensical garbage. The indoc theory actually makes sense universe wise... this... this is just outright trash.

[JTP117]

nyrocron wrote...

Is it realistic that someone that worked at BioWare could talk about that stuff legally? I don't really think so. Why would any NDA not apply anymore just because you are no longer employed?
If he was the only one working on the lighting stuff he could at least easily be identified.

Exactly, and no attorney would EVER tell a single employee to go agains the entire EA company and leak all this, they  would have to know that EA has an amazing legal staff to deal with all that and he would be sued big time for endangering copany profit

[noobcannon]

i've posted this in other places before but i'll post it here too. the big reasons i support the indoc theory more than any other scenario right now:

in mass effect 1 the rachni queen says the "sour songs" forced them to commit the rachni wars and that they would see "oily shadows" while the reapers were trying to indoctrinate them. fast forward to shepard's dreams in me3. when he is chasing the spaceboy, You see what are clearly "oily shadows" all around. is this proof? of course not. but it is a very strong piece of evidence that supports shepards dreams as part of an indoctrination proccess.

when you beam aboard the citadel, hacket says no one made it to the beam, so it seemed pretty clear you got up there BEFORE anderson. once you teleport up anderson says he went in right behind you. from where you teleported it is a straight line to the control panel. i've wandered around to make sure and i cannot figure out how he would have gotten to that control panel, let alone gotten to it before you. also where the hell did TIM come from? there are no doors or branching platforms. again, this is evidence, not proof.

the third bit that troubles me is shepard surviving the explosion when you have enough war assets. forget the fact that he's breathing in space. i'll assume there are barriers or whatever. but when you consider the size of that explosion, where shepard was in proximity to it (RIGHT NEXT TO IT), and that whatever barrier may have been there keeping oxygen in.... i asked myself what is more likely?: shepard survivng a close encounter with harbinger's beam (that we never see actually hit him) or survivng that huge explosion, in space, right in front of him)

there are other good pieces of evidence out there but these three have really stuck with me, more than anything else. the normandy running away was also a real headscratcher.

if you haven't seen it already, i strongly suggest you watch:

[Denvian]

Ziggeh wrote...

Denvian wrote...

There is a precedent you know.  When they released the trailer for Mass Effect 2 they showed shepard dying and there was outrage and weird PR around that as well.  Not saying it is to the same scale though.  And there is a major gap between professional game reviewers and actual gamer reviews.

They have mislead us in the past for story telling purposes... I see no reason why they wouldn't do it again

That's a fairly innocent bit of misdirection though. This the end of a multi million dollar trilogy.

And again, it would still be a twist if the ending was strong and then turned out to be false. Having people think your story sucked and turning round and going "hey, not as much as you might have thought!" seems a wild and bizarre way to end a franchise.

I don't think they wanted people to get attached to the current ending. That has always been my take on it really.

And really I think their intent with the whole ending is to foster some disbelief in the player.  This of course turned into nerd rage but I think they did not anticipate that.

Modifié par Denvian, 25 mars 2012 - 06:09 .

[nyrocron]

About the 4chan leak:
In an other thread someone pointed out that it is not logically correct. How is EDI alive to give Parts but Shep needs those?

Modifié par nyrocron, 25 mars 2012 - 06:06 .

[JTP117]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Bah, I don't believe that silly leak for a second.

First off, Elcor, Volus and Hanar squadmates but not a single Human, Drell, Turian, hell even Batarian? Right there I call bull.

Secondly, this pretty much renders Synthesis and Control moot with they decide to go with "atmospheric re-entry" which in itself is just outright stupid. NOBODY can survive that crap. You mean Shepard survives now with no helmet and burned up armor but he cant survive WITH armor? Give me a break.

IF this turns out to be true (big if... BIG if, I highly doubt it) then I really am done with BioWare because to me, this is nonsensical garbage. The indoc theory actually makes sense universe wise... this... this is just outright trash.

Atmospheric re-entry not only kills it for me as the first time he did that he had a full helmet on and was still rendered a slab of broken and burned meat that took 2 years and trillions of dollars to fix, but the fact that he SOMEHOW survived the gigantic explosion that blew the citadel, a giant space station, to pieces. Sorry, but there is no way he could survive either of those, let alone both at the same time.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Soo... I haven't been online for the entire weekend.. any important news?

[greywardencommander]

Ziggeh wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...
Everything you say is addressed

Mind pointing me in the general direction?

It's in my signature with a link to my thread it's a place I put everything I post into one big long place so people can read it all in one go. It originally started as a 'if I.T ended up happening regardless here's how I would make all decisions matter'

Hmm. That only addresses one of the points, and I entirely disagree with the conclusion.

it's not meant to address any points that's what I'm saying my whole thread and why it can work regardless if all decisions are taken into account. Personally I remain not sure if it was intended (and waver every day that it is) but thinking if they do it 'a lot of people's issue is it doesn't take into account the decision in the crucible' thus I.T. taking into account final decision in ending DLC solves that problems

In fact when it first started my idea  re. the incorporating decisions literally all it was is the stuff about being indoctrinated in the end and having to die in the end because you were indoctrinated and face your squadmates etc and other possible outcomes. Thus all my idea is that no matter whether intended this is what I'd like to see to give the widest range of endings including your decision based on the crucible.

 the stuff I do re. the psychology is my belief that on the most basic level you are supposed to think something's not right that is my belief that it's deliberate and I am prepared to accept when confirmed that it's not true.

I will state again, I am beyond believing that it is intended and now think Bioware need to it like this to 'fix the endings'. Doing this with clarification stuff is no different to many of the 'plotholes' the point of my thread in the first place (and it spiralled from there) was 'this is what I would do to make all decisions matter' which is all it had at first to me going do you know what I'm going to say why I think it's indoctrination or a hallucination based on the final sequence alone (because as I say simple psychology dictates you will see what you want to see re. the rest of the game and other games etc)

Tbh a lot of stuff gets lost in the mix and in translation but I hope you realise I neither care (nor am of an opinion) whether I.T. is true or not and that real endings would always come. I focused on the idea 'how would that impact any 'fix' dlc if in either case and when I was addressing you orginally it was legitimate counter arguments to your points which you are perfectly entitled to counter-argue back. I am a pro-IT (intended or otherwise) and you are someone who believes otherwise.

Thus in short I apologise if I came across as aggressive it certainly wasn't intentional I was trying to point out (and my references to my signature were trying to get you to see that) that I.T. can work to fix the endings which a lot of people seem to want and that it doesn't matter if it's true anymore.

Edit: reason I defend it in this thread is because a) it's the point of the thread really and don't want to lose faith in ME or Bioware and no matter what it's my head canon

Modifié par greywardencommander, 25 mars 2012 - 06:09 .

[thePredator50]

JTP117 wrote...

thePredator50 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

NikolaiShade wrote...

tomhagen27 wrote...

http://i39.tinypic.com/1gnlw2.jpg

probably already in this thread but if it isn't have a look. be warned, red part is spoiler-free, the blue parts show the future of the mass effect series (from what i have heard, will no read. i hate spoilers)

If I'm not mistaken this comes from the same source (4chan) as "The Truth" DLC.
There are some minor and major inconsistencies but, at this time, all is possible.
To quote a wise vampire: the coin is still turning.

not sure I trust anything that originates off 4chan lol

I agree, Bioware has already had to discredit other "Leaks" from 4chan in the last few weeks that turned out to be complete fan fabrication

4Chan had its share of spot-on rumors as well.

Yes but this really isn't a rumor, it seems more like another faked leak from and "official source" that fails to give any valid identity which many of us have seen many time before

True, but that is not why this rumor can be discredited right away... there are other, perfectly valid explanations as to why this is fake. The author wrote it very poorly really...

First off, DA2 shipped in alpha status? Please, anyone who ever worked on any sort of iterative software development can only laugh at this statement. This alone is enough to discredit everything else that's been said.

Secondly, he very specifically explains who he is, and if this were true, he would be facing multi-million dollar prosecutions right now for breaking the NDA, and no lawyer could help him out here.

Lastly, numerous plot holes... The entire "plot" of the expansions depends on Shepard landing on earth and certain events occuring there, even though it is possible to get an ending currently in ME3 that involves the earth getting destroyed completely... soooo yeah, fake.

[JTP117]

nyrocron wrote...

About the 4chan leak:
In an other thread someone pointed out that it is not logically correct. How is EDI alive to give Parts but Shep needs those?

How is shepard even showing any life signs at all after being in a giant explosion and then falling to earth? How is the catalyst in him if all the cybernetics are burned out? There are so many inconsistencies. My guess is that it's a short fan-fic that someone is trying to get into the lime light

[nyrocron]

JTP117 wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

About the 4chan leak:
In an other thread someone pointed out that it is not logically correct. How is EDI alive to give Parts but Shep needs those?

How is shepard even showing any life signs at all after being in a giant explosion and then falling to earth? How is the catalyst in him if all the cybernetics are burned out? There are so many inconsistencies. My guess is that it's a short fan-fic that someone is trying to get into the lime light

Shep becoming the catalyst actually was in some leaked script part as far as I remember. But I agree, the whole thing does not make very much sense.

[JTP117]

thePredator50 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

thePredator50 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

NikolaiShade wrote...

tomhagen27 wrote...

http://i39.tinypic.com/1gnlw2.jpg

probably already in this thread but if it isn't have a look. be warned, red part is spoiler-free, the blue parts show the future of the mass effect series (from what i have heard, will no read. i hate spoilers)

If I'm not mistaken this comes from the same source (4chan) as "The Truth" DLC.
There are some minor and major inconsistencies but, at this time, all is possible.
To quote a wise vampire: the coin is still turning.

not sure I trust anything that originates off 4chan lol

I agree, Bioware has already had to discredit other "Leaks" from 4chan in the last few weeks that turned out to be complete fan fabrication

4Chan had its share of spot-on rumors as well.

Yes but this really isn't a rumor, it seems more like another faked leak from and "official source" that fails to give any valid identity which many of us have seen many time before

True, but that is not why this rumor can be discredited right away... there are other, perfectly valid explanations as to why this is fake. The author wrote it very poorly really...

First off, DA2 shipped in alpha status? Please, anyone who ever worked on any sort of iterative software development can only laugh at this statement. This alone is enough to discredit everything else that's been said.

Secondly, he very specifically explains who he is, and if this were true, he would be facing multi-million dollar prosecutions right now for breaking the NDA, and no lawyer could help him out here.

Lastly, numerous plot holes... The entire "plot" of the expansions depends on Shepard landing on earth and certain events occuring there, even though it is possible to get an ending currently in ME3 that involves the earth getting destroyed completely... soooo yeah, fake.

I never played those other games so i couldnt comment on that but you seem to be well versed on the subject. And I agree about the legal debocal, he would have his ass handed to him by now, EA has ears everywhere for this sort of thing. Thank you for responding, I was not aware of the other points. The more you know

[Denvian]

nyrocron wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

About the 4chan leak:
In an other thread someone pointed out that it is not logically correct. How is EDI alive to give Parts but Shep needs those?

How is shepard even showing any life signs at all after being in a giant explosion and then falling to earth? How is the catalyst in him if all the cybernetics are burned out? There are so many inconsistencies. My guess is that it's a short fan-fic that someone is trying to get into the lime light

Shep becoming the catalyst actually was in some leaked script part as far as I remember. But I agree, the whole thing does not make very much sense.

The whole thing seems a lot like someone trying way too hard to sound credible... MY lawyer advised me that he is full of it.

[greywardencommander]

Hunter_Wolf wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Kyzee wrote...

Ah, yes--that. I don't really put much stock in that, myself. Logically, the first relay the beam would have to go through is the Sol relay because of the Citadel's location, i.e. Earth. The cutscene showing the first relay firing and exploding gives no visual clues as to its location (nor would it be possible, I think), but again, logical deduction says Sol. The fact that in the galatic cutscene, the first relay trigger you see happens in the Viper Nebula I think is (1) coincidental or (2) more likely just fan speculation--there's no conclusive evidence that it is, in fact, the Viper Nebula; it could just be roughly in the same location. In either event, it has no bearing on the integrity of IT in of itself.

If, however, the galatic cutscene does in fact start in the Viper Nebula (after going through the Sol relay--sorry, physics is physics, folks), then that would simply be another neat touch/hint by the developers, I think. It'd simply lend credence to IT, that's all. 

It's impossible to be sure which arm is which and what angle we're seeing the Milky Way from.  So no, it might not be the Viper Nebula.  One thing is certain though.  It is not from the Sol relay.  We can't be sure which arm is which but we can still figure the distance from the galactic core.  Sol is roughly halfway between the center and the edge.  The explosion begins near the edge.  WAY too far to be coming from Sol.

Well it's also at this point impossible to say that everytime a relay is destroyed, the result in catastrophic. Rho was destroyed under different circumstances so the same experiment cannot be replicated from what we see. 

Not to mention the Citadel is a giant relay therefore housing the physiology. When the signal sends out, Earth is consumed by it but depending on your EMS rating, the result can leave the Earth just fine as is. With Rho, the Batarians were ultimately wiped out from the supernova created from it. So can't say we know for a fact that all relays go through this same process because Rho was destroyed in an entirely different manner.

no idea where it was but someone posted that physics and technical stuff means that unless they essentially say 'space magic' the ME relays destroyed in controlled manner would be as bad if not worse. I'll see if I can find the thread, it was interesting regardless tbh as that particular point is pretty small in grand scheme re. I.T.
even if it's isn't viper nebula it's not sol (well certainly doesn't look that) which is strange given the crucible etc is in that and the beam fires from that system so logically speaking you can see why it would be odd because the one relay you would think would be destroyed first is that one because it's easiest. Also all relays destroyed...where do the Reapers go? The relays are where they came from...

Modifié par greywardencommander, 25 mars 2012 - 06:17 .

[JTP117]

nyrocron wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

About the 4chan leak:
In an other thread someone pointed out that it is not logically correct. How is EDI alive to give Parts but Shep needs those?

How is shepard even showing any life signs at all after being in a giant explosion and then falling to earth? How is the catalyst in him if all the cybernetics are burned out? There are so many inconsistencies. My guess is that it's a short fan-fic that someone is trying to get into the lime light

Shep becoming the catalyst actually was in some leaked script part as far as I remember. But I agree, the whole thing does not make very much sense.

I could see some pseudo symbiotic thing where Shepard gains that status from the original catalyst (even that is a huge leap borderig on the third matrix movie) or that they merge, but the catalyst using Shep as a body suit? I know Bioware can do better than that. I've seen it from ME, ME2 and even the greater majority of ME3

[JTP117]

Denvian wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

About the 4chan leak:
In an other thread someone pointed out that it is not logically correct. How is EDI alive to give Parts but Shep needs those?

How is shepard even showing any life signs at all after being in a giant explosion and then falling to earth? How is the catalyst in him if all the cybernetics are burned out? There are so many inconsistencies. My guess is that it's a short fan-fic that someone is trying to get into the lime light

Shep becoming the catalyst actually was in some leaked script part as far as I remember. But I agree, the whole thing does not make very much sense.

The whole thing seems a lot like someone trying way too hard to sound credible... MY lawyer advised me that he is full of it.

That's a burn, lol

[nyrocron]

Denvian wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

About the 4chan leak:
In an other thread someone pointed out that it is not logically correct. How is EDI alive to give Parts but Shep needs those?

How is shepard even showing any life signs at all after being in a giant explosion and then falling to earth? How is the catalyst in him if all the cybernetics are burned out? There are so many inconsistencies. My guess is that it's a short fan-fic that someone is trying to get into the lime light

Shep becoming the catalyst actually was in some leaked script part as far as I remember. But I agree, the whole thing does not make very much sense.

The whole thing seems a lot like someone trying way too hard to sound credible... MY lawyer advised me that he is full of it.

Wait for it, in the end we will get something that is even worse than this. 

Nah, at the moment I still trust BioWare to give us something great. However, if they do not deliver an ending that Mass Effect deserves, I will be gone forever.

[greywardencommander]

Denvian wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

About the 4chan leak:
In an other thread someone pointed out that it is not logically correct. How is EDI alive to give Parts but Shep needs those?

How is shepard even showing any life signs at all after being in a giant explosion and then falling to earth? How is the catalyst in him if all the cybernetics are burned out? There are so many inconsistencies. My guess is that it's a short fan-fic that someone is trying to get into the lime light

Shep becoming the catalyst actually was in some leaked script part as far as I remember. But I agree, the whole thing does not make very much sense.

The whole thing seems a lot like someone trying way too hard to sound credible... MY lawyer advised me that he is full of it.

I always thought Shep should be the Catalyst. I.e. in terms of him using the crucible but also (when I got to the ending and was waiting for me to be able to argue the point) the catalyst in ending the cycle and bringing peace because he brings peace between geth and quarians thus synthetics and organics.

I use this idea in my 'this is how i'd have the ending dlc' in my thread.

[lomar1o]

I support this theory.. Damn it all I can't sleep for 3 weeks already.. There is still hope..

[Beti88]

tomhagen27 wrote...

http://i39.tinypic.com/1gnlw2.jpg

probably already in this thread but if it isn't have a look. be warned, red part is spoiler-free, the blue parts show the future of the mass effect series (from what i have heard, will no read. i hate spoilers)

That sounds like complete BS to me

[TrveOmegaSlayer]

nyrocron wrote...

Is it realistic that someone that worked at BioWare could talk about that stuff legally? I don't really think so. Why would any NDA not apply anymore just because you are no longer employed?
If he was the only one working on the lighting stuff he could at least easily be identified.

I have various friends working in software companies related to Sony and Ubisoft.
NDA expires when the game is out, not even if the game is cancelled since the material could be used for something else.
Even if you're fired you're still tied by NDA and you sign an NDA even if you attend a closed door presentation or visit the studio.
This stuff is really strict with BIG, HUGE fines
I can grant this 1000%

[Sammuthegreat]

So... I'll just put this here...

(No doubt already posted)

[Denvian]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

So... I'll just put this here...

(No doubt already posted)

Yeah that is one of my favorites : )