57139 réponses à ce sujet

[lillitheris]

1. IT isn't “true”, as in even though parts may have - and seemed to be - included, it was nixed by BioWare execs in favour of this new ending that we got;

2. HOWEVER, because everything can be pretty neatly explained using IT, BioWare should thank all passing deities for this opportunity and run with it.

3. They can either go in the direction they wanted to take with Casper (i.e. destroy all relays, Normandy gets stranded) but get a chance to add cinematics and closure plus rewrite the final sequence, reaper rationale and so on so that it makes at least some kind of sense - or, if so desired, they can actually add some of these alternative endings people would like to see. I'd be happy either way.

[Sammuthegreat]

Henkovich wrote...

 http://i42.tinypic.com/2r3c7zk.jpg 

this is on the prothean ruins on Eletania, just thought it seemed interesting.

I remember discovering that, I was completely mystified. But in a really awesome way (unlike my reaction to ME3's endings ). If nothing else, it's a great little Easter egg that just goes to show how far ahead BioWare planned the story and mythos of the universe.

Would a developer renowned for such foresight really have been rushed into a muddled ending? Really?

[Abram730]

waldstr18 wrote...

indoctrination theory is easily disproofed. just watch how many choices you get here:



if it was indoctrination and we had to choose the red option to snap out of it, why is it the only possible option here? the reapers noticed that shepard hadnt enough war assets so they werent interested in successfully mind controlling him? they just made a ... trial run (?) for the next hero with a bigger army?

and for those saying the ending went over everyones heads: ever heard of the emperors new cloth?

some of these explanations ... really? the kid smiled? shepard bled from the same spot anderson was shot? or my personal favorite: "do you hear that humm or is it just me?"
had to be indoctrination... what else could it have been? vega hears a humming sound. case and point.

The first option to open up is death, The Destroy Option
The last option to open up is live and wake up, The Destroy Option.

[Stigweird85]

@Denvian it's the internet, don't take it personally.

I believe in the IT as I think it is really the only way to explain so man of the plot holes away. That being said should the writers at Bioware have something else up their sleeve I will be first to admit that I was wrong.

I trust Bioware, so should this rumour of The Truth DLC or Mass Shift be correct then fine. sign me up and take my money.

The one good thing about all these rumours/leaks is they share one thing. There will be more Mass Effect which can only be good

[mooney6023]

At this point I'm wondering if all the "cut scenes and audio dialogue" found on disc is really just in place assets for the already planned ending DLC.

Thoughts?

[IronSabbath88]

Denvian wrote...

I had someone tell me that they took my name down and when April comes around and IDT turns out to be false he is going to rub my face in it with a long "I told you so" message.

I really have no idea what I have done to ****** him off... I thought I have been very civil and yet people are still acting like tools.

That's what I hate about people. They tell us our theory is grasping at straws, yet we're being civil with our thoughts, not forcing our opinion on anyone and we get treatment like that.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

lillitheris wrote...

1. IT isn't “true”, as in even though parts may have - and seemed to be - included, it was nixed by BioWare execs in favour of this new ending that we got;

2. HOWEVER, because everything can be pretty neatly explained using IT, BioWare should thank all passing deities for this opportunity and run with it.

3. They can either go in the direction they wanted to take with Casper (i.e. destroy all relays, Normandy gets stranded) but get a chance to add cinematics and closure plus rewrite the final sequence, reaper rationale and so on so that it makes at least some kind of sense - or, if so desired, they can actually add some of these alternative endings people would like to see. I'd be happy either way.

In regards to number 1 I have only one thing to ask...Your proof of this claim?

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 25 mars 2012 - 09:33 .

[KILLER SQUIDZ]

HairyMadDog1010 wrote...

beank wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...
FYI, here are some other tweets where Jessica Merizan hints that IT is true... it's not like the previous tweet I linked is in isolation. There's plenty of other hints.

Then why are we still discussing? If this many "hints" have been droped, then is it not safe to say that Indoc is true, or a least some variant of it?

Yes, but haters gonna hate.

Keep in mind that this could easily just be bull **** just to quench the rage of us fans. She never directly confirms it, which means if her "hints" are false then she can easily deny giving us confirmation of the IT theory... because she never directly confirmed it. I'm still under the impression that they're just biding their time.

[Sammuthegreat]

mooney6023 wrote...

At this point I'm wondering if all the "cut scenes and audio dialogue" found on disc is really just in place assets for the already planned ending DLC.

Thoughts?

That's certainly what I'm inclined to believe at this point.

[greywardencommander]

Henkovich wrote...

 http://i42.tinypic.com/2r3c7zk.jpg 

this is on the prothean ruins on Eletania, just thought it seemed interesting.

based on the fact people say indoctrination doesn't and can't happen like that (a lot of the critics of the theory)

sounds to me a lot like 'this is the sort of thing that happensat the end to subtly change your thinking and align with the Reapers' just like Indoctrination is described in ME (codex entry) with subliminal messaging i.e. hallucinations, visions and the fact they explicitly end up back where they were and were fine and I remember seeing stuff like that in ME1 and later games (and why I thought something was off could be because at the back of my mind i'm remembering it)
http://en.wikipedia..../Indoctrination
Indoctrination works because you leave yourself open to suggestion etc and how it is in real life like I say in my thread (signature) on looking at the ending purely psychologically (last sequence alone) if they could literally control someone who still has any part of resistance in their mind (even a part that goes bugger I see it now i'm indoctrinated I need to kill myself as I can't go back re. Saren) to the Reapers, why not this theory? Seeing as the Reapers can't go Shepard (or everyone else for that matter) come over here and be harvested why don't you make my life easier.

Put it this way, if indoctrination was infallible then how come the Rachni Queen & Shiala (the letter from her even says why, because of the Thorian, you mind melded with her and ) aren't indoctrinated with the countless Reapers there are now? Simple it's not, and it's all about the mind, keep that you don't get 'controlled' and don't leave yourself susceptible to their suggestions that get you to do what they want (i.e. Saren and synthesis motivation and TIM and the options presented to you at the end, align with the reapers without realising your motives have changed and you're playing into their hands, you're a willing ally.

In other words, what reason is there in terms of lore that Shepard can't have this vision based on a last ditch full indoctrination attempt?

[yagaelvin]

Regarding the cut dialogue found in ME3, while as cool as some of those scenes could have been, just remember how much cut dialogue came out of ME2

[greywardencommander]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

mooney6023 wrote...

At this point I'm wondering if all the "cut scenes and audio dialogue" found on disc is really just in place assets for the already planned ending DLC.

Thoughts?

That's certainly what I'm inclined to believe at this point.

I even asked if the fact it seems all this dialogue stuff and the files stuff supposed to be on the disk or something (i don't really understand where it's all coming from I don't get disk hacking i'm not much of a computing expert in terms of hardware) point to the fact it's to come in a massive patch or still on the disk or SOMETHING, i.e. it can still happen? Noone answered me at the time but it doesn't matter it's my belief it neither proves nor disproves anything imo.

Modifié par greywardencommander, 25 mars 2012 - 09:36 .

[yagaelvin]

KILLER SQUIDZ wrote...

HairyMadDog1010 wrote...

beank wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...
FYI, here are some other tweets where Jessica Merizan hints that IT is true... it's not like the previous tweet I linked is in isolation. There's plenty of other hints.

Then why are we still discussing? If this many "hints" have been droped, then is it not safe to say that Indoc is true, or a least some variant of it?

Yes, but haters gonna hate.

Keep in mind that this could easily just be bull **** just to quench the rage of us fans. She never directly confirms it, which means if her "hints" are false then she can easily deny giving us confirmation of the IT theory... because she never directly confirmed it. I'm still under the impression that they're just biding their time.

All of her tweets in the end just prove that Bioware is planning SOMETHING later on (which is verified now).  What exactly it may be regarding the ending no one knows yet

[greywardencommander]

lillitheris wrote...

1. IT isn't “true”, as in even though parts may have - and seemed to be - included, it was nixed by BioWare execs in favour of this new ending that we got;

2. HOWEVER, because everything can be pretty neatly explained using IT, BioWare should thank all passing deities for this opportunity and run with it.

3. They can either go in the direction they wanted to take with Casper (i.e. destroy all relays, Normandy gets stranded) but get a chance to add cinematics and closure plus rewrite the final sequence, reaper rationale and so on so that it makes at least some kind of sense - or, if so desired, they can actually add some of these alternative endings people would like to see. I'd be happy either way.

That's pretty much what we're saying either yay we worked it out or you're welcome Bioware/EA a gift from us to you, who know your lore inside out as supposedly do you, remember you owe use big time so don't f- us about next time right.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

Henkovich wrote...

 http://i42.tinypic.com/2r3c7zk.jpg 

this is on the prothean ruins on Eletania, just thought it seemed interesting.

I remember discovering that, I was completely mystified. But in a really awesome way (unlike my reaction to ME3's endings ). If nothing else, it's a great little Easter egg that just goes to show how far ahead BioWare planned the story and mythos of the universe.

Would a developer renowned for such foresight really have been rushed into a muddled ending? Really?

Yeah talking to Jarvik and then going like "Oh so that is what that Artifact back in ME1 was about" was awesome

[greywardencommander]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

Henkovich wrote...

 http://i42.tinypic.com/2r3c7zk.jpg 

this is on the prothean ruins on Eletania, just thought it seemed interesting.

I remember discovering that, I was completely mystified. But in a really awesome way (unlike my reaction to ME3's endings ). If nothing else, it's a great little Easter egg that just goes to show how far ahead BioWare planned the story and mythos of the universe.

Would a developer renowned for such foresight really have been rushed into a muddled ending? Really?

Yeah talking to Jarvik and then going like "Oh so that is what that Artifact back in ME1 was about" was awesome

exactly how I felt and wished I had that image at the time when people were saying it's impossible for indoctrination to work like this (full blown vision/hallucinations) it even says it in the codex! People who don't realise the term indoctrination and what it is in real life just don't seem to grasp this point (and use 'noone's ever done it therefore it can't be done) as their only fall back in argument.

[nyrocron]

yagaelvin wrote...

All of her tweets in the end just prove that Bioware is planning SOMETHING later on (which is verified now).  What exactly it may be regarding the ending no one knows yet

Yep. Could even be the "leaked" stuff. It would fit the ending and explain some of it.

Modifié par nyrocron, 25 mars 2012 - 09:45 .

[lillitheris]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

1. IT isn't “true”, as in even though parts may have - and seemed to be - included, it was nixed by BioWare execs in favour of this new ending that we got;

In regards to number 1 I have only one thing to ask...Your proof of this claim?

Well, it is only my opinion. I actually consider the issue to be pretty much moot - if we end up getting the IT, does it really matter?

At this point I think discussing it is a distraction - detractors can jump on to derail the discussion from whether IT is the way to go to whether it's “true” or not (as illustrated here). Energy is better spent promoting, if you will, the idea that IT is the way to salvage this series.

Given the information we have, though (the more credible leaks) and the fact that there's been nothing from BioWare that would confirm this - they would not dare to drag it out for more than a week or so* - occam's razor says that the ending in its current format is indeed a screw-up, not a master plan.

* At this point they've already alienated people for good, plus dragging it out this long means a significant amount of people - like me - won't be it was planned all along so they'll lose their thunder and come across as lying on top of everything else. If you thought of the long reveal as a practical joke, there's always a certain limit beyond which you can't go before it stops being funny. That limit was about 10 days, maybe 12 given the staggered release worldwide.


Edit: I wanted to clarify this statement I had in the original: I don't mean that everyone's terribly naïve about game development or anything, I'm just inviting you to allow for the possibility that even a company with a reputation and history like BioWare's isn't immune to the influence of deadlines, trying to start new franchises and so on. Original statement: A lot of you seem to have a pretty idealized image of how game
development works. It's not a democracy, and money talks. This sort of
thing is entirely conceivable (and don't get me wrong, it *should* be
done on the terms of the developer teams, it just isn't).

Modifié par lillitheris, 25 mars 2012 - 09:55 .

[Kanon777]

Ok im not in favor of the indoc theory but im replaying the game right now... Anyone notices the annoying buzzing sound during the dreams are just like the the symptoms of indocrination, and Sheppard complaint of headaches (that he always has after the dreams) is also a symptom...

My reasoning now is that Bioware WANTED to make a scene with Shepp being indocrinated but sometime during development they decided to go with a diferent aproach on how to end the story.

Modifié par tobito113, 25 mars 2012 - 09:46 .

[nyrocron]

tobito113 wrote...

(...)
My reasoning now is that Bioware WANTED to make a scene with Shepp being indocrinated but sometime during development they decided to go with a diferent aproach on how to end the story.

I do not think so. The original leaked script from Nov/2011 suggests no indoctrination and if indoc is in the game it would have been added after the leak. I do not think they would have taken it out so close to release. (The game would have had to be mostly finished by December or January)

Modifié par nyrocron, 25 mars 2012 - 09:48 .

[TekFanX]

Sorry, I'm new to this thread(but not the theory;)) and don't know if the following has been brought up yet.
I just discovered it when experimenting with the dream after the genophage-cure:

If you just keep running away from the shadows in the dreams(away from the sound-source for the whispers), the only sounds left are some electrical buzzings.

The second thing I found odd (though I'm not sure about that, could be wishful thinking): When I reached the border of the dream, Shepard would turn around and suddenly there seemed to be more shadows than I recall from my first playthrough.
Just as if the reapers would try to strengthen their hold on Shepard when he/she want's to flee from that dream.
If this is not just an error from my side, this would mean, that some people at BioWare had to make this mechanic. And I don't know, if this mechanic would be that important in a dream that just imbodies Shepards feeling of guilt and fear.

Sorry if someone brought this up already, I've mostly just seen the youtube-vid from Acavyos.

Modifié par TekFanX, 25 mars 2012 - 09:50 .

[greywardencommander]

KILLER SQUIDZ wrote...

HairyMadDog1010 wrote...

beank wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...
FYI, here are some other tweets where Jessica Merizan hints that IT is true... it's not like the previous tweet I linked is in isolation. There's plenty of other hints.

Then why are we still discussing? If this many "hints" have been droped, then is it not safe to say that Indoc is true, or a least some variant of it?

Yes, but haters gonna hate.

Keep in mind that this could easily just be bull **** just to quench the rage of us fans. She never directly confirms it, which means if her "hints" are false then she can easily deny giving us confirmation of the IT theory... because she never directly confirmed it. I'm still under the impression that they're just biding their time.

typical PR to do with anything hence why I don't take any statement such as Ray's as gospel either way, it's all vague, 'clarification', 'explanation', 'feedback of the endings is being taken', in terms of tweets 'real', 'you sure it happened like that', 'you sure Shepard went out meekly'

heck even if all that suggestion that SOMETHING WAS happening re. even ta da ME3.5 (such as with AC2 then Brotherhood and Revelations aren't AC3 but expansions basically of AC2, when it was envisioned as a trilogy)  is you wake up and end the battle. Heck at least we'd be like well we were half right lol

but a direct link to it? (in scenario she says she never suggested hallucination and endings not being all they seem it to people) and pictures of it (you know it would happen) all over the internet and these forums? can't claim otherwise.

[greywardencommander]

TekFanX wrote...

Sorry, I'm new to this thread(but not the theory;)) and don't know if the following has been brought up yet.
I just discovered it when experimenting with the dream after the genophage-cure:

If you just keep running away from the shadows in the dreams(away from the sound-source for the whispers), the only sounds left are some electrical buzzings.

The second thing I found odd (though I'm not sure about that, could be wishful thinking): When I reached the border of the dream, Shepard would turn around and suddenly there seemed to be more shadows than I recall from my first playthrough.
Just as if the reapers would try to strengthen their hold on Shepard when he/she want's to flee from that dream.
If this is not just an error from my side, this would mean, that some people at BioWare had to make this mechanic. And I don't know what good it would do to, if this mechanic would be that important in a dream that just imbodies Shepards feeling of guilt and fear.

Sorry if someone brought this up already, I've mostly just seen the youtube-vid from Acavyos.

hence theory is based on this whole ending is the last of the dreams welcome on board

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

I know that they were letting the keepers deal with the Citadel's maintenance and everything, but they seriously expect me to believe that all of those people lived on the Citadel for millenia, and NOBODY found out about the area where this star child thing was? It's so far fetched. As a pro wrestling fan, I'm used to suspending my disbelief, but this is just too much.

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 25 mars 2012 - 09:51 .

[earth_angel]

I had a machiavelic tought. As sais above there was an ending that leaked about dark energy and reapers being giant computers created to solve a dark energy problem.

Now what if Bioware decided to go the IT route for two reasons:
1) getting back the surprise lost because of the leak by revealing the true endings a month after releasing ME3: who still thinks this old scenario is the right one?
2) since the players might be very critical about whatever end Bioware might choose, they look at reactions to know what most players really want to give us a perfect ending.

if true I will feel manipulated but so happy