57139 réponses à ce sujet

[legaldinho]

Turbotanden wrote...

My brother alerted me to an interesting point about the last track of the OST before the credits. It is called "An End, Once and For All", but I have never in my life heard a song finish in that way without leading up to something.

Disregard what happens during the in game video and just listen to the end of this song. Then imagine Shepard taking a wake up-breath right after the end of it.

Very interesting, the music definitely is themed- with a distinct sound for reapers etc.

So I went to look for the dream song, and it ends with a very interesting sound.



8:24 onwards...

[ChuckieJ]

GBGriffin wrote...

ChuckieJ wrote...


It's not a joke. The decisions are very real, even if they are from Reapers invading your mind. When you make the correct decision you are defeating indoctrination.

Implying there is only one correct decision, that probably is the one you picked.

Seriously. If the game comes down to picking the "right" option, how is that less limiting than what we currently have? Why not make equally valid choices? 

Oh, right. The fan-made speculative theory demands that only one choice be correct...probably the one you'd pick 10/10 times.

Yes I currently believe there is only one correct one. But some here believe that if you allowed yourself to be indoctrinated then you and your team may find a way to fight it.

But the game is not done if IT is true. There is a final mission we have yet to play. If you made a wrong choice (if there is one) during the last 10 mins of the game, then you may have to reload a save to re-choose. Maybe not. As above there may be some way to recover from a wrong choice. We simply don't know. But I do believe:

1) Control = The Illusive Man = Wrong
2) Syntehsis = Saren = Wrong
3) Destroy = You & Anderson = Right

But that is my understanding now! When playing the game I reasoned it out this way:

1) Control - started walking toward it then realized that even if I could control them there was no evidence it would be permanent.
2) Synthesis - it's unfair to turn everyone in the galaxy in the cyborgs. 
3) Destroy - it is what I came to accomplish. Yes the StarChild claims I will also kill the Geth but I have no reason to believe him

So yes I believe I chose the right option without knowing about IT. 

[greywardencommander]

Am I still seeing people still saying IDT (intended or otherwise) is the idea that everything's retconned to make something a good ending thus not a good theory?
It's the exact opposite, any DLC (intended or otherwise) based on IT can make all your decisions matter (the most important one of all really) and not go yay space magic destroys all the relays and makes everyone synthetic because it was all in the mind thus in ending DLC you're starting waking up after Harbinger's beam either indoctrinated or not (in gameplay mechanics can be the exact same in terms of getting from point a to point b the difference based on dialogue, sound effects such as humming and growling etc and cut scenes)
In essence the idea that if you go this route all your decisions can matter (e.g. Geth, krogan, collectors base, paragon, renegade EMS, colour choice thus you're indoctrinated or still suffer effect of being indoctrinated in case of destroy, Saren type indoctrination re. Synthesis, TIM type indoctrination re. Control) can make all this important and lead to various outcomes, reapers can win (Shepard while indoctrinated and with no player prompts to otherwise dooms everyone reapers win), with enough EMA etc you can make a Saren like final resist and save everyone and then die/kill himself the ultimate bittersweet because you succumbed to indoctrination but everything is saved, you save everyone but indoctrination was too much thus you die anyway - bittersweet. The ultimate happy ending you're not indoctrinated or very quickly in DLC get to 'resist' based on destroy, you save the galaxy and shep whoop, or even in every scenario he dies so it's bittersweet but yeah we did it and it mattered.

Don't know about you but that amount of possibility and variation.based on choice(even hypothetically speaking) is why IDT works to 'fix the endings' because no fixing re current endings (and thus the awful looking edit and removal of stuff etc looks like even as it is now with everything as is) and why I like the idea regardless of intention on Bioware's part I like that idea full stop we should have it to fix the endings in DLC.

[syroz]

It's the only way for the "end" to make sens. That 's the only thing to remember with this theory. No need to argue then. I don't see the raisons to convince other people it is "true" therefore. Everybody can make their own mind about the end, that is just a game.
Their is no conspiracy, no f*** believers vs rational people. And if it was realy planned by BW good for everyone, we will have a sequel that fix the end. 

Modifié par syroz, 26 mars 2012 - 01:01 .

[Kyzee]

Baltar2009 wrote...

Kyzee wrote...


You were the one who brought it up. You can't do that and then act incredulous when people point out how inappropriate the comparison is. Obviously, what you say is just as important as how you say it. 

All I am asking for is civility here. We can disagree with each other without being insulting.

As for how IT is more satisfying, I would suggest you read this article. It points out a lot of the narrative issues in the ending. Hope that helps.   https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

Yeah, I get all that.  I'm saying IT doesn't improve the situation.

No IT: The ending makes no sense.
IT: No ending.

Sorry, this isn't acceptable.

In my view, it's all a matter of narrative. Let's suppose that IT is true: to go through the whole indoctrination scenario with Harbinger and then break out of it would really ruin the impact. The players don't get to feel the indoctrination process; it's just a "Psyche!" moment. In terms of story telling and game interaction, I think that IT would be ingenious. No other game that I know of has ever attempted, let alone succeeded in doing what IT would have accomplished. (Again, assuming it's true.)

And IT does allow for an ending in DLC content. Now, I am admittedly uncomfortable with the idea of having to pay for a "real ending" just because I fear the precedent it may set for less scrupulous developers. However, I also admit to the ending being a DLC making sense in this particular case (as explained above).

Finally, Bioware has never let me down before. Disappointed me, yes (::looks over at DA2:, but they never failed on such an epic level as with the current endings. I'm willing to give them a chance. And hey, if IT isn't true and there's another explanation (other than the current endings being true b/c . . . damn), then fine. So long as it makes sense.

[RorickHuon]

Doesn't really mean much to help the theory, but it helps the character notice the amount of stress Shepard is under and his refusal to let people close to him. Very powerful scene imo

[Dmthoth]

hm............i hope so..

[ME3endingsucks2]

so just another little tidbit I want to throw in there that supports IT, if you look at the moons and the trees it is obvious that whatever planet your crew crash landed on is the same planet that the boy and his grandfather are speaking on, I think these scenes were Harbinger's last little input to make Shephard believe he was making the right choice. Showing him that through his choice that he not only saved his crew but preserved for them future generations, that is a great sense of hope that could be all the reapers needed to fully finalize the indoctrination. Not anything groundbreaking I know, but most of the big stuff has been mentioned already. Just doing my part.

Also made this name before I found out about IT, just want that to be known.

[greywardencommander]

I also love this in-group vs out-group dynamic of this forum (and places like youtube and review articles) and find them so interesting because if one believes one thing, one cannot change their opinion no matter what because the other is of the opposing belief, we have conformed and been conditioned to that belief so it doesn't matter what the other person says you won't be swayed, not unless the other person shares a common ideology.

So in this scenario it's antidoctrination vs prodoctrination. Using myself as an example I believe the IDT theory is the way to make the endings work and have clarification DLC. There's another dynamic at play here, anti-ending vs. Pro-ending. I'm very much of the anti-ending UNLESS IDT was planned thus it makes sense - becomes good ending based on clarification DLC.

Someone who's anti-ending says I hate the endings fix them fix them but then sees actually I agree with you regardless IDT can make ending DLC pretty awesome you become part of an ingroup with me we have a common goal, fix the endings however it is but make it work.

If you're pro-ending you see IDT as a threat to current endings, you see that actually this doesn't retcon or punish the player if final choice is considered thus you realise the endings as you like them are still how they are but DLC is clarification dlc not changing endings you say actually I see why people would really like that idea and if my choice is still valid and the same outcome could still be reached in DLC (hypothetically) I have no issue at all. In theory it's anti-ending vs pro ending and the two can't blend but add in IDT as the mediator and suddenly everyone has a common ideology - all become one big group rallying for ending DLC based on IDT endings.

Basic psychology (this is true in so many variations) but by and large idea is you are surprised you disagree with an ingroup member or surprised you agree with an outgroup member you all eventually become a large group and I just find it so fascinating in so many ways but especially on the internet because in this scenario (I.e) this thread many people from many different ideas about the endings, good bad, fine, just needs clarification and we all become one giant 900 page thread (or group) that whose who believe in IDT for whatever reason and support it become a huge in-group.
I just find that fascinating I really do

Modifié par greywardencommander, 26 mars 2012 - 01:12 .

[Denvian]

RorickHuon wrote...


Doesn't really mean much to help the theory, but it helps the character notice the amount of stress Shepard is under and his refusal to let people close to him. Very powerful scene imo

My favorite part is when he says, "Your like half robot at this point".

Modifié par Denvian, 26 mars 2012 - 01:11 .

[Golferguy758]

It's like people aren't grasping the concept that IDT theory is not saying that what we have now are acceptable endings. It saying that the endings are yet to come. IDT theory is a stepping stone to get TO those endings.

[byne]

Golferguy758 wrote...

It's like people aren't grasping the concept that IDT theory is not saying that what we have now are acceptable endings. It saying that the endings are yet to come. IDT theory is a stepping stone to get TO those endings.

Seriously. Its like for some reason they think we'd all be fine if Bioware came out and said 'Yup it was a hallucination, but we're not going to ever release anything to actually finish the story. The game ends before the war is over.'

[Denvian]

byne wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

It's like people aren't grasping the concept that IDT theory is not saying that what we have now are acceptable endings. It saying that the endings are yet to come. IDT theory is a stepping stone to get TO those endings.

Seriously. Its like for some reason they think we'd all be fine if Bioware came out and said 'Yup it was a hallucination, but we're not going to ever release anything to actually finish the story. The game ends before the war is over.'

The strangest thing is that they are pushing for that to be true.  

InDoc Believer - "Hey maybe they were trying to do this with the story and maybe they are going to add more..."

Tool McNerdface - "NOOOO that's not true Bioware is just a bunch of big stupids that don't know how to write ya big stupid!"

InDoc Believer - "but maybe..."

McNerdface - "Nooo ya crazy stupid!"

Modifié par Denvian, 26 mars 2012 - 01:23 .

[Rifneno]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

I know that they were letting the keepers deal with the Citadel's maintenance and everything, but they seriously expect me to believe that all of those people lived on the Citadel for millenia, and NOBODY found out about the area where this star child thing was? It's so far fetched. As a pro wrestling fan, I'm used to suspending my disbelief, but this is just too much.

ROFL. 10/10, as a fellow fan.

Baltar2009 wrote...

You are just full of terrible ideas aren't you?

Better than being full of...

byne wrote...

Are those actually the filenames? Because that seems a bit convenient, like when someone edited the child's model to say Harbinger.

They are, but they're also used in places like Sanctuary which definitely aren't a dream. I wish the fact that the control ending model is named "BadA" would get more attention. That's far more conclusive IMO since it's not used anywhere else. Also the fact that the game uses the control scheme from bioinput.ini/sfxgame/sfxgamemodedreamsequence after Shepard gets hit with Harby's beam.

[byne]

Rifneno wrote...

byne wrote...

Are those actually the filenames? Because that seems a bit convenient, like when someone edited the child's model to say Harbinger.

They are, but they're also used in places like Sanctuary which definitely aren't a dream. I wish the fact that the control ending model is named "BadA" would get more attention. That's far more conclusive IMO since it's not used anywhere else. Also the fact that the game uses the control scheme from bioinput.ini/sfxgame/sfxgamemodedreamsequence after Shepard gets hit with Harby's beam.

Huh, the exact same leaves are used in Sanctuary? Doesnt that add even more onto the "Shep is constructing everything in the endings based on things s/he remembers from other places" pile?

And I hadnt heard of the control scheme thing. Thats... interesting.

[Golferguy758]

Denvian wrote...

byne wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

It's like people aren't grasping the concept that IDT theory is not saying that what we have now are acceptable endings. It saying that the endings are yet to come. IDT theory is a stepping stone to get TO those endings.

Seriously. Its like for some reason they think we'd all be fine if Bioware came out and said 'Yup it was a hallucination, but we're not going to ever release anything to actually finish the story. The game ends before the war is over.'

The strangest thing is that they are pushing for that to be true.  

InDoc Believer - "Hey maybe they were trying to do this with the story and maybe they are going to add more..."

Tool McNerdface - "NOOOO that's not true Bioware is just a bunch of big stupids that don't know how to write ya big stupid!"

InDoc Believer - "but maybe..."

McNerdface - "Nooo ya crazy stupid!"

i compared this whole scenario to Mass Effect. We have two groups trying to get to acceptable endings(Stop the Reapers). Both speaking of different means in getting there(Control vs destroy). Retakers and IDTers both really should stop fighting each other and realize that there is a common goal between the two(Original Cerberus vs Allied fleets). Trying to stop one or the other is just undermining the whole situation.

[NikolaiShade]

Denvian wrote...

byne wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

It's like people aren't grasping the concept that IDT theory is not saying that what we have now are acceptable endings. It saying that the endings are yet to come. IDT theory is a stepping stone to get TO those endings.

Seriously. Its like for some reason they think we'd all be fine if Bioware came out and said 'Yup it was a hallucination, but we're not going to ever release anything to actually finish the story. The game ends before the war is over.'

The strangest thing is that they are pushing for that to be true.  

InDoc Believer - "Hey maybe they were trying to do this with the story and maybe they are going to add more..."

Tool McNerdface - "NOOOO that's not true Bioware is just a bunch of big stupids that don't know how to write ya big stupid!"

InDoc Believer - "but maybe"

McNerdface - "Nooo ya crazy stupid!"

The real question is: can BioWare write something like this?
If the answer is no (ignoring they did pretty much the same in KoTOR and Jade Empire) then any evidence, solid or not, is useless.

[byne]

NikolaiShade wrote...

The real question is: can BioWare write something like this?
If the answer is no (ignoring they did pretty much the same in KoTOR and Jade Empire) then any evidence, solid or not, is useless.

Even if they cant, and its all a giant coincidence, the fans have done a pretty good job of writing it for them.

[goffisbored]

byne wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Anyone knows what legaldinho was talking about a texture in the endings named dream?

It's on this thread, but lord help me find it...

http://img13.imagesh...rtedtexture.png

http://img804.images...fofitviaumo.png

Look around here

http://social.biowar...dex/9727423/862

Are those actually the filenames? Because that seems a bit convenient, like when someone edited the child's model to say Harbinger.

I can confirm that these are real file names, I had a go at extracting them myself becasue I was a little sceptical too. Here's the relevant section of the NameTable in the extraction:

629 = "DrawScale3D"
630 = "Dream_Foliage_MAT_INST_01"
631 = "Dream_FoliageMove_MM"
632 = "Dream_FoliageSheet_Diff"
633 = "Dream_Plant03"
634 = "Dreamlight_Tile"
635 = "DreamTree01_DiffDreamTree01_Diff"
636 = "DreamTree01_NormDreamTree01_Diff"
637 = "DurationMilliseconds"

Happy to share the whole thing, but this was all that I spotted that was pertinent of the 2000+ entries.

[NikolaiShade]

byne wrote...

NikolaiShade wrote...

The real question is: can BioWare write something like this?
If the answer is no (ignoring they did pretty much the same in KoTOR and Jade Empire) then any evidence, solid or not, is useless.

Even if they cant, and its all a giant coincidence, the fans have done a pretty good job of writing it for them.

A job well done if they use it to resolve the endings problem.

[Golferguy758]

NikolaiShade wrote...

Denvian wrote...

byne wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

It's like people aren't grasping the concept that IDT theory is not saying that what we have now are acceptable endings. It saying that the endings are yet to come. IDT theory is a stepping stone to get TO those endings.

Seriously. Its like for some reason they think we'd all be fine if Bioware came out and said 'Yup it was a hallucination, but we're not going to ever release anything to actually finish the story. The game ends before the war is over.'

The strangest thing is that they are pushing for that to be true.  

InDoc Believer - "Hey maybe they were trying to do this with the story and maybe they are going to add more..."

Tool McNerdface - "NOOOO that's not true Bioware is just a bunch of big stupids that don't know how to write ya big stupid!"

InDoc Believer - "but maybe"

McNerdface - "Nooo ya crazy stupid!"

The real question is: can BioWare write something like this?
If the answer is no (ignoring they did pretty much the same in KoTOR and Jade Empire) then any evidence, solid or not, is useless.

And I am of the belief that they could. They pointed people in the direction of this thread. Now they have become very quiet about almost everythign in regards to the ending the closer we got to Pax. 

I think the panel is going to start with the Reaper Foghorn, Shepard breath scene with People shouting "Shepard!"

Either that or armed body guards escorting the panelists to the stage.

[ME3endingsucks2]

I see no one cares about my revelation lol

[Dwailing]

Golferguy758 wrote...

NikolaiShade wrote...

Denvian wrote...

byne wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

It's like people aren't grasping the concept that IDT theory is not saying that what we have now are acceptable endings. It saying that the endings are yet to come. IDT theory is a stepping stone to get TO those endings.

Seriously. Its like for some reason they think we'd all be fine if Bioware came out and said 'Yup it was a hallucination, but we're not going to ever release anything to actually finish the story. The game ends before the war is over.'

The strangest thing is that they are pushing for that to be true.  

InDoc Believer - "Hey maybe they were trying to do this with the story and maybe they are going to add more..."

Tool McNerdface - "NOOOO that's not true Bioware is just a bunch of big stupids that don't know how to write ya big stupid!"

InDoc Believer - "but maybe"

McNerdface - "Nooo ya crazy stupid!"

The real question is: can BioWare write something like this?
If the answer is no (ignoring they did pretty much the same in KoTOR and Jade Empire) then any evidence, solid or not, is useless.

And I am of the belief that they could. They pointed people in the direction of this thread. Now they have become very quiet about almost everythign in regards to the ending the closer we got to Pax. 

I think the panel is going to start with the Reaper Foghorn, Shepard breath scene with People shouting "Shepard!"

Either that or armed body guards escorting the panelists to the stage.

The first one would be awesome.  The second one.... well, I'm not sure if guns would help against a bunch of blood raged fans.

[byne]

ME3endingsucks2 wrote...

I see no one cares about my revelation lol

Well, I just generally try to pretend the epilogue with the old man and the child never even happened.

I like that even less than I like the endings, if that is possible.

If we assume the endings are true, people forgetting Shepard was just a regular person, and treating her like some kind of deity, calling her 'The Shepard' just really annoys me.

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

ME3endingsucks2 wrote...

I see no one cares about my revelation lol

Well, I just generally try to pretend the epilogue with the old man and the child never even happened.

I like that even less than I like the endings, if that is possible.

If we assume the endings are true, people forgetting Shepard was just a regular person, and treating her like some kind of deity, calling her 'The Shepard' just really annoys me.

I'm wondering if that scene was an example of the Reapers appealing to Shepard's pride.