57139 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

Abdul_777 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've found a possible flaw in IT. There is a scene in the game that happens in slow-mo and is definately outside of a dream. When you encounter Eva on Mars and she injures one of your squadmates. Then she runs towards Shepard in slow-mo. So maybe the slow-mo gameplay before Shepard is beamed up to the Citadel means nothing. Let's hope not.

I really don't see a connection at all
That moment is just part of nearly every single game, where u are using guns. If i look through my sniper riffle its slow-mo, too XD
Adrenalin pumping situation, action, pistol, limited rounds. It ALWAYS leads to slow-mo. (Cod4)

You have to look on this effect in the context of Mass Effect 3, not all games you've ever played. If slow-mo in ME3 is so important for IT (including the dreams), why use it in other parts of the game?

Because Eva was so close by the time your average gamer would react youd be dead already.They used slow mo to give you time to realize you have to shoot her yourself and line those shots up.

Kai Leng is also very close when the fight starts in TIM's HQ. Yet there's no slow-mo. The only explanation is that Eva created a negative mass effect field that increased the mass of her surroundings thus slowing time.

[Highlord Heian]

The Prothean VI pretty much stating "You aren't indoctrinated" is still a major point of conflict in my mind. Sure it could have started after that, though that's stretching it pretty far.

Which, if you didn't do that mission with Javik, you missed out on a lot.

So it's either IDT, but you're supposed to ignore some things, or not IDT, and you're supposed to ignore the terrible ending. Either way the flow of the ending is completely interrupted - the fact that the ending has "theories" means that it clearly wasn't a decisive conclusion, because it leaves more questions than it started with.

If were supposed to be the real ending, it was awful. If it's IDT, they represented it vaguely and without clear purpose, and it still never reaches conclusion. There's no explanation that makes the ending good.

[llbountyhunter]

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

ME3endingsucks2 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've found a possible flaw in IT. There is a scene in the game that happens in slow-mo and is definately outside of a dream. When you encounter Eva on Mars and she injures one of your squadmates. Then she runs towards Shepard in slow-mo. So maybe the slow-mo gameplay before Shepard is beamed up to the Citadel means nothing. Let's hope not.

That doesn't relate to each other at all, the slow mo is obviously just to illustrate her running at you. You are grasping at imaginary straws.

I agree. it could also just be the adrenaline in Shepards veins after having seen Kaidan/Ashley be knocked out, that is slowing time down, you know, like the skill "adrenaline rush"?

OK, so maybe when Shepard is hit by Harbinger he has another adrenaline rush to get up and go. Or maybe the impact makes the fluids in his brain shake and that's why he perceives a distorted reality (slow-mo). I support the Indoctrination Theory but still can see some (even minor) contradictions in it. Maybe the devs just overlooked that.

But the dreams don't happen in slow motion, its just you moving in slow-dreamlike fashion. You can see three kid running away from you at normal speed, whereas at mars everything is going slow- not just you.

[edogalax]

Also the Captain Jean-Luc Picard of USS Enterprise was indoctrinated.. He became Locutus of Borg..

[estebanus]

Highlord Heian wrote...

The Prothean VI pretty much stating "You aren't indoctrinated" is still a major point of conflict in my mind. Sure it could have started after that, though that's stretching it pretty far.

Which, if you didn't do that mission with Javik, you missed out on a lot.

So it's either IDT, but you're supposed to ignore some things, or not IDT, and you're supposed to ignore the terrible ending. Either way the flow of the ending is completely interrupted - the fact that the ending has "theories" means that it clearly wasn't a decisive conclusion, because it leaves more questions than it started with.

If were supposed to be the real ending, it was awful. If it's IDT, they represented it vaguely and without clear purpose, and it still never reaches conclusion. There's no explanation that makes the ending good.

this problem has been discussed before. It is stated by several prothean-aligned characters that the protheans could only detect high levels of indoctrination.

[Comguard2]

Almost a month is over.

Amazon.com is taking back copies of Mass Effect 3.

EA is taking back Mass Effect 3.

The media is bashing.

The BSN is burning.

The time where they would have made an anouncement is over.

And if they do: that would mean that the deliberatly released an unfinished product. They didn't say "Yeah, we have a surprise for the ending - just wait for the DLC." Everyone would now that there would be an ending, and we still would have to figure if he was indoctrinated or not. But there would be no rage or hating about the ending.

I really want to believe, but the sad reality is: Bioware just screwed it.

[edogalax]

[ME3endingsucks2]

Highlord Heian wrote...

The Prothean VI pretty much stating "You aren't indoctrinated" is still a major point of conflict in my mind. Sure it could have started after that, though that's stretching it pretty far.

Which, if you didn't do that mission with Javik, you missed out on a lot.

So it's either IDT, but you're supposed to ignore some things, or not IDT, and you're supposed to ignore the terrible ending. Either way the flow of the ending is completely interrupted - the fact that the ending has "theories" means that it clearly wasn't a decisive conclusion, because it leaves more questions than it started with.

If were supposed to be the real ending, it was awful. If it's IDT, they represented it vaguely and without clear purpose, and it still never reaches conclusion. There's no explanation that makes the ending good.

this has probably been explained over a 100 times. The VI itself states that they had sleeper agents that were in the process of indoctrination that they couldn't realize. The only person that VI would recognize is someone who WAS indoctrinated, not someone the reapers were TRYING to indoctrinate. I mean you and paxxton, come on guys it's common sense. Neither of those things are that hard to figure out.

[paxxton]

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

ME3endingsucks2 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've found a possible flaw in IT. There is a scene in the game that happens in slow-mo and is definately outside of a dream. When you encounter Eva on Mars and she injures one of your squadmates. Then she runs towards Shepard in slow-mo. So maybe the slow-mo gameplay before Shepard is beamed up to the Citadel means nothing. Let's hope not.

That doesn't relate to each other at all, the slow mo is obviously just to illustrate her running at you. You are grasping at imaginary straws.

I agree. it could also just be the adrenaline in Shepards veins after having seen Kaidan/Ashley be knocked out, that is slowing time down, you know, like the skill "adrenaline rush"?

OK, so maybe when Shepard is hit by Harbinger he has another adrenaline rush to get up and go. Or maybe the impact makes the fluids in his brain shake and that's why he perceives a distorted reality (slow-mo). I support the Indoctrination Theory but still can see some (even minor) contradictions in it. Maybe the devs just overlooked that.

But the dreams don't happen in slow motion, its just you moving in slow-dreamlike fashion. You can see three kid running away from you at normal speed, whereas at mars everything is going slow- not just you.

Good point! So the scene at the beam resembles the one with Eva on Mars rather than a dream. That further takes from the IDT's validity.

[llbountyhunter]

Highlord Heian wrote...

The Prothean VI pretty much stating "You aren't indoctrinated" is still a major point of conflict in my mind. Sure it could have started after that, though that's stretching it pretty far.

Which, if you didn't do that mission with Javik, you missed out on a lot.

So it's either IDT, but you're supposed to ignore some things, or not IDT, and you're supposed to ignore the terrible ending. Either way the flow of the ending is completely interrupted - the fact that the ending has "theories" means that it clearly wasn't a decisive conclusion, because it leaves more questions than it started with.

If were supposed to be the real ending, it was awful. If it's IDT, they represented it vaguely and without clear purpose, and it still never reaches conclusion. There's no explanation that makes the ending good.

 

Maybe your not fully indoctrinated yet and it only detects full indoctrination.
Also, when you get to the cerberus base and you ask it again, out says something like "security protocols overridden"

[ChuckieJ]

captainbob8383 wrote...

Man you obviously have no clue what you're talking about, you confuse the game "Deus Ex" with the plot device "Deus Ex Machina".
And yes Mass Effect 3 ending is an absolute rip off of Deus Ex, direction wise and theme wise.
You would realise that if you had actually played it.
And when people say that ME3 ending is a lazy Deus Ex Machina, they talk about the God Child.

Isn't it true that in the original Deus Ex, Jensen was dead so he had to die at the end of Human Revolution since it's a prequel?

Just because another game has a final choice doesn't mean it's copied. 1) Jensen really dies, Shep doesn't. 2) Choose your own adventure books have choices throughout including at the end. This is nothing new and there's nothing wrong with that.

The interesting thing is that they cut the results of the indoctrination attempt and the final battle out of the game to initiate this discussion. If the final resolution was there, gamers would barely think about what happened. They would merely load up a previous save and try again until they got the "right" ending. Very few would bother discovering that what was really going on was indoctrination.

[spz123]

Comguard2 wrote...




I really want to believe, but the sad reality is: Bioware just screwed it.

They've stated there wilol more information coming next month, so how about just waiting till then before making a definitive statement?

Thats the sensible option.

[Denvian]

paxxton wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've found a possible flaw in IT. There is a scene in the game that happens in slow-mo and is definately outside of a dream. When you encounter Eva on Mars and she injures one of your squadmates. Then she runs towards Shepard in slow-mo. So maybe the slow-mo gameplay before Shepard is beamed up to the Citadel means nothing. Let's hope not.

I really don't see a connection at all
That moment is just part of nearly every single game, where u are using guns. If i look through my sniper riffle its slow-mo, too XD
Adrenalin pumping situation, action, pistol, limited rounds. It ALWAYS leads to slow-mo. (Cod4)

You have to look on this effect in the context of Mass Effect 3, not all games you've ever played. If slow-mo in ME3 is so important for IT (including the dreams), why use it in other parts of the game?

I don't think it is important to the theory.  It is like when they point out that your gun has unlimited ammo... It really is not one of the biggest peices of evidence at all.  Really I have already written both off as ways of adding tension to the final moments of the game.  

There are so many bigger peices of evidence that I think the theory is hurt by defending them when, as you say, there really is nothing suggesting that IT is the only reason or only precedence for slow motion.  

Modifié par Denvian, 26 mars 2012 - 04:03 .

[Beti88]

Downloaded gibbed's audio extractor, but it doesn't seem to find ME3 files

[Stigweird85]

Madlocke wrote...

bigstig wrote...
What endings were people expecting?

Can only speak for myself but.. I expected an ending where an army of mortals (and geth), from rachni to asari, fought and prevailed against the Reapers (due to my high EMS, which I thought for 99% of the game actually mattered, and due to the choices I made along the way), where the Citadel Defense Force actually did something (Seriously, where were they? What happened at the Citadel?)  and where Shepard sacrificed themselves to be the Catalyst needed to power the Crucible weapon to end the Reaper threat forever.

Interesting idea, but verging way to much on the messianic for my liking, I don't mind Shep dying while saving the galaxy I just don't want him to die in order to save the galaxy(if you know what I mean)

Madlocke wrote...Of course I also hoped that perhaps if I gathered enough resources, did well enough everywhere, Shepard might be saved by the LI and the crew of the Normandy at the brink of death. It would of course depend on completed loyalty missions, and how Shepard treated their crew over the course of the three games, but we were promised that our choices were going to matter.

Was I unrealistic in expecting my choices would matter, when I was promised they would?

Expecting choice would matter is fine(your choices and EMS determine the outcome of Shepard life, but expecting a new cut scence for every variation of living squad members/fleet members etc seems to be a little extreme to me, and would cost resources that could probably be spent better elsewhere.  I don't deny that it would have been good to see Krogan charging the field at rachni etc though

[Gerbil Fetus]

Just played through the Geth Concensus mission again.

The Animation shep does as the screen white outs (when he enters a new command Node) is THE SAME as when Shepard gets "hit" by Habinger's Laser.

Shep's defs had his brain haxxord by Harby for an Indoctrination ploy.

[ME3endingsucks2]

Comguard2 wrote...

Almost a month is over.

Amazon.com is taking back copies of Mass Effect 3.

EA is taking back Mass Effect 3.

The media is bashing.

The BSN is burning.

The time where they would have made an anouncement is over.

And if they do: that would mean that the deliberatly released an unfinished product. They didn't say "Yeah, we have a surprise for the ending - just wait for the DLC." Everyone would now that there would be an ending, and we still would have to figure if he was indoctrinated or not. But there would be no rage or hating about the ending.

I really want to believe, but the sad reality is: Bioware just screwed it.

Wow all this intelligent discussion and I see 3 utter jagaloons on this one page. EA and Amazon are not offering full refunds for purchased Mass Effect games, that is just a lie. They wanted people to figure out indoctrination ON THEIR OWN!!!! How is that hard to understand, if they said yup it's indoctrination, then everyone who has yet to beat the game, (which is a lot it hasn't even been a month yet, not everyone beats games the week they get them) would know and it would be ruined and they'd pick destroy. They are also trying to build hype around it which is obviously working because um well. There's 20 thousand posts in this thread alone. People who are denying this theory have about the mental acuity of a gerbil.

[ME3endingsucks2]

paxxton wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

ME3endingsucks2 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've found a possible flaw in IT. There is a scene in the game that happens in slow-mo and is definately outside of a dream. When you encounter Eva on Mars and she injures one of your squadmates. Then she runs towards Shepard in slow-mo. So maybe the slow-mo gameplay before Shepard is beamed up to the Citadel means nothing. Let's hope not.

That doesn't relate to each other at all, the slow mo is obviously just to illustrate her running at you. You are grasping at imaginary straws.

I agree. it could also just be the adrenaline in Shepards veins after having seen Kaidan/Ashley be knocked out, that is slowing time down, you know, like the skill "adrenaline rush"?

OK, so maybe when Shepard is hit by Harbinger he has another adrenaline rush to get up and go. Or maybe the impact makes the fluids in his brain shake and that's why he perceives a distorted reality (slow-mo). I support the Indoctrination Theory but still can see some (even minor) contradictions in it. Maybe the devs just overlooked that.

But the dreams don't happen in slow motion, its just you moving in slow-dreamlike fashion. You can see three kid running away from you at normal speed, whereas at mars everything is going slow- not just you.

Good point! So the scene at the beam resembles the one with Eva on Mars rather than a dream. That further takes from the IDT's validity.

are you really that dumb? The scene with EVA EVERYTHING IS IN SLOW MOTION YOU ****!!!!! As opposed to the scene with the beam, where it is only you in slow motion just like it is in the dreams. The kid isn't running in slow mo in the dreams is he? Would you think before you start typing please?

[ChuckieJ]

Comguard2 wrote...

Almost a month is over.

Amazon.com is taking back copies of Mass Effect 3.

EA is taking back Mass Effect 3.

The media is bashing.

The BSN is burning.

The time where they would have made an anouncement is over.

And if they do: that would mean that the deliberatly released an unfinished product. They didn't say "Yeah, we have a surprise for the ending - just wait for the DLC." Everyone would now that there would be an ending, and we still would have to figure if he was indoctrinated or not. But there would be no rage or hating about the ending.

I really want to believe, but the sad reality is: Bioware just screwed it.

A 25-40 hour game is not easy to complete. Some people aren't playing yet because of the face import bug. 

EA must have known about the ending and trusted that the Doctors and Hudson could handle the response. Waiting a full month until PAX East does seem too long to me but that is their decision.

[Turbotanden]

paxxton wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

ME3endingsucks2 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've found a possible flaw in IT. There is a scene in the game that happens in slow-mo and is definately outside of a dream. When you encounter Eva on Mars and she injures one of your squadmates. Then she runs towards Shepard in slow-mo. So maybe the slow-mo gameplay before Shepard is beamed up to the Citadel means nothing. Let's hope not.

That doesn't relate to each other at all, the slow mo is obviously just to illustrate her running at you. You are grasping at imaginary straws.

I agree. it could also just be the adrenaline in Shepards veins after having seen Kaidan/Ashley be knocked out, that is slowing time down, you know, like the skill "adrenaline rush"?

OK, so maybe when Shepard is hit by Harbinger he has another adrenaline rush to get up and go. Or maybe the impact makes the fluids in his brain shake and that's why he perceives a distorted reality (slow-mo). I support the Indoctrination Theory but still can see some (even minor) contradictions in it. Maybe the devs just overlooked that.

But the dreams don't happen in slow motion, its just you moving in slow-dreamlike fashion. You can see three kid running away from you at normal speed, whereas at mars everything is going slow- not just you.

Good point! So the scene at the beam resembles the one with Eva on Mars rather than a dream. That further takes from the IDT's validity.

ITD is less invalid because there was a short scripted slow-mo event at one point earlier in the game? Who is grasping at straws?

[estebanus]

ME3endingsucks2 wrote...

Comguard2 wrote...

Almost a month is over.

Amazon.com is taking back copies of Mass Effect 3.

EA is taking back Mass Effect 3.

The media is bashing.

The BSN is burning.

The time where they would have made an anouncement is over.

And if they do: that would mean that the deliberatly released an unfinished product. They didn't say "Yeah, we have a surprise for the ending - just wait for the DLC." Everyone would now that there would be an ending, and we still would have to figure if he was indoctrinated or not. But there would be no rage or hating about the ending.

I really want to believe, but the sad reality is: Bioware just screwed it.

Wow all this intelligent discussion and I see 3 utter jagaloons on this one page. EA and Amazon are not offering full refunds for purchased Mass Effect games, that is just a lie. They wanted people to figure out indoctrination ON THEIR OWN!!!! How is that hard to understand, if they said yup it's indoctrination, then everyone who has yet to beat the game, (which is a lot it hasn't even been a month yet, not everyone beats games the week they get them) would know and it would be ruined and they'd pick destroy. They are also trying to build hype around it which is obviously working because um well. There's 20 thousand posts in this thread alone. People who are denying this theory have about the mental acuity of a gerbil.

 

I agree with the most of your post, however it is not nice nor right to call EVERYONE who dislikes this theory an idiot. If you do that, then you're no better than the people bashing this thread.
But then again, there are some people out there that really DO act like retards. And I have no problem with bashing them.

[Gerbil Fetus]

"....People who are denying this theory have about the mental acuity of a gerbil."

*looks at own BSN username*

Hehehehahahahaha!

[Avissel]

So I'm curious, and nobody ever answers this question.

Since most of the I.T. people seem to feel that it is a true real thing and not a theory.

How exactly do you guys make it mesh with all the statements from Bioware that state the ending is the real ending? Like do you think they are just keeping it super double dog secret until the assumed DLC is ready?