57139 réponses à ce sujet

[crimsontotem]

I was thinking...

If this is an indeed 'art'...literature can be an art as well...

where in any literature hasn't a hero gone through a suffering and temptation?

Starwars had one, there are so many in LoTR, Game of throne has loads of them, etc...

every literature where it involves hero have heroes going through an experience that takes them to

the brink of death.

Let's face it, Shepard has been uptight every time... suicide mission was too easy for us if we had

done all the upgrades... if indoc theory is true, not only it fills plot holes, but also it fills their

'artistic integrity' as well.

if they do the dlc regarding the ending, maybe they got the hint from the policy of new vegas...

continual dlcs that goes on with the episodes... maybe they are thinking of same?

who knows... let's wait till PAX

[greywardencommander]

macrocarl wrote...

Well it's a solid theory. But it being the actual ending is equally as plausible. What if it's written to be both at the same time? It's not like that hasn't happened before in movies. Addmittedly someone else probably mentioned this already (I haven't read all 906 pages). At any rate I have a previous save that I can go back to if 'Blue' ends up being 'correct' (ie. Shep doesn't get indoctrinated) Can't wait to see what's in store for DLC.

equally valid I admit we don't deny that.
IDT can work on all endings and you live with the choice you make (red is the best ending because it means you resist completely) the other two might have you able to resist temporarily like Saren at the last minute and sacrifice yourself for the good of the galaxy or even kill yourself after doing the right thing.

[greywardencommander]

crimsontotem wrote...

I was thinking...

If this is an indeed 'art'...literature can be an art as well...

where in any literature hasn't a hero gone through a suffering and temptation?

Starwars had one, there are so many in LoTR, Game of throne has loads of them, etc...

every literature where it involves hero have heroes going through an experience that takes them to

the brink of death.

Let's face it, Shepard has been uptight every time... suicide mission was too easy for us if we had

done all the upgrades... if indoc theory is true, not only it fills plot holes, but also it fills their

'artistic integrity' as well.

if they do the dlc regarding the ending, maybe they got the hint from the policy of new vegas...

continual dlcs that goes on with the episodes... maybe they are thinking of same?

who knows... let's wait till PAX

ME2 had a 'best ending', so does ME3 - destroy with a high enough EMS. Why is it so impossible to think that DLC can be based on all the final decisions? (Edit rhetorical statement not a direct question at you)

Also regarding the literature I say in my thread that overcoming the Reaper's biggest weapon like a true hero is to ME3 what Ilos and Omega Relay were to ME1 and ME2 - 'true you made a career out of doing the impossible'

Modifié par greywardencommander, 26 mars 2012 - 05:33 .

[titusrsoooooo1337]

greywardencommander wrote...


ME2 had a 'best ending', so does ME3 - destroy with a high enough EMS. Why is it so impossible to think that DLC can be based on all the final decisions? (Edit rhetorical statement not a direct question at you)

Also regarding the literature I say in my thread that overcoming the Reaper's biggest weapon like a true hero is to ME3 what Ilos and Omega Relay were to ME1 and ME2 - 'true you made a career out of doing the impossible'

Having DLC that is based on your final descision would be pointless, because the only way to continue the story would be through the "destroy" choice. The other two choices would become irrelevant to the story at that point because everyone would know that the only way to keep playing is to do that choice.

[Kyzee]

ME3endingsucks2 wrote...

Kyzee wrote...

 You know, quick thought on the Stargazer scene:

I personally think it's just part of the indoctrination of the player/just a hook to let people know that there more coming in regards to Shepard's story. However, supposing it's real, I think it could still fit into IT. After all, it's never stated that space flight isn't a part of the grandfather and grandchild's reality. The kid ask when he (she?) can go to the stars, and the grandfather says, "Someday, my sweet." That could simply be another way of saying, "When you grow up." The world could just be a remote colony that doesn't have much alien contact, or even instellar contact other than supplies at this point.

Am I declaring this to be true? No, not by any means. I'm just postulating here. Anyone else seeing this as a possibility? Does it make sense?

I've explained at length why I think the stargazer scene plays into IT, but I don't think it could actually exist and still tie into it. He says that the details of Shepards story had been lost over time, if the cycle doesn't restart then all of that would have surely been documented and would have never of been forgotten. The stargazer scene is Harbinger's last input on making Shepard think his choice was correct and that he saved the galaxy with his choice.

Maybe. I just wanted to toss the hypothesis our there are see what people thought. I don't think the Stargazer scene is anything as elaborate as Shepard's personal indoctrination, as I said. But hey, you could be right. We'll just have to wait and see. 

[greywardencommander]

Kyzee wrote...

 You know, quick thought on the Stargazer scene:

I personally think it's just part of the indoctrination of the player/just a hook to let people know that there more coming in regards to Shepard's story. However, supposing it's real, I think it could still fit into IT. After all, it's never stated that space flight isn't a part of the grandfather and grandchild's reality. The kid ask when he (she?) can go to the stars, and the grandfather says, "Someday, my sweet." That could simply be another way of saying, "When you grow up." The world could just be a remote colony that doesn't have much alien contact, or even instellar contact other than supplies at this point.

Am I declaring this to be true? No, not by any means. I'm just postulating here. Anyone else seeing this as a possibility? Does it make sense?

throw in the fact it's framed narrative (obviously stories within a story within a story etc etc) and that anything he says can't be trusted re. the ending scene could be that's it's fabrication based on the idea of the LEGEND of Shepard ending the 'threat' (notice that in the DLC it doesn't say defeated the Reapers, out of context Reaper threat can mean anything from one Reaper to 12 on one planet, to all of them) on his mind to go on and beat them. Thus although that's true it just shows that the Stargazer scene can be interpreted anyway you want (maybe their intention) but that if you look at it that way it can fit into IDT. Look at it in another way, the endings are as they are, nothing is certain, nothing is impossible
The cryptic messages including a link to this thread, i'm going to go with the former.

[JTP117]

YoItsThomas wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

Okay, I'm in the one of the godchild dreams right now. I decided to walk into a group of the shadow figures to see if they said anything. I could hear them whispering. I swear to god I heard them say "don't trust him", "Get back commander" , "Someone outside is coming" (when I got close to the boy), "SHEPARD! (really loud elderly male voice), every time I got in a group of the whisps, "Stay away from him, trust yourself" (that one sent chills up my spine)

and has anyone noticed that the whisps almost blockade the boy? Like they don't want you near him? How about how the got louder and angrier as the whispered when you approached him.

I decided to write this as I played so I wouldn't forget anything. The dialogue of the whisps needs to be analyzed further, there's something important hidden in their speech, I just know it.

Are you playing with subtitles on or off? I play with them on and they'll say something without me walking to the whisps and I remember some of them as something squad mates have said.
I might have to try the dream sequences again myself and walk into the whisps to see if there may be more dialogue or dialogue beneath the subtitles.
Don't really wanna do another play through but I guess I have another reason other than try my tali LI lol

I played with them off so that I would really listen

[Phaelducan]

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...


ME2 had a 'best ending', so does ME3 - destroy with a high enough EMS. Why is it so impossible to think that DLC can be based on all the final decisions? (Edit rhetorical statement not a direct question at you)

Also regarding the literature I say in my thread that overcoming the Reaper's biggest weapon like a true hero is to ME3 what Ilos and Omega Relay were to ME1 and ME2 - 'true you made a career out of doing the impossible'

Having DLC that is based on your final descision would be pointless, because the only way to continue the story would be through the "destroy" choice. The other two choices would become irrelevant to the story at that point because everyone would know that the only way to keep playing is to do that choice.

Which everyone would do as the other 2 options are literally "game over" choices. Similarly to how you *could* have Shep die at the end of ME2... but then don't get the option of importing a save for ME3 with that result being canon.

Also, given that the DLC would pick up at the "wake-up" moment, Bioware could (correctly I think) force the destroy option as canon given that the whole sequence isn't literal events playing out but rather Shep being wholely inside his own mind.

Either way, I think the litmus test would be whether or not the DLC is free. If people have to pay 10 bucks just to get any actual ending outside of epic-fail indoctrinated Shep, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[nyrocron]

ME3endingsucks2 wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

There are several similar Planets, I do not think that means anything regarding IT.

Of course not. Shepard could have started levitating and started to eat himself and you jack wads would still think that last sequence was reality.

(...)

Oh come on, I supported IT since before you even created your account for this forum. (As you could have seen in my signature.)
But there are many people that repeat to bring up the same stuff that can be easily explained without indoctrination and was already explained multiple times. I don't think IT has to rely on this weak- or non-eviedence since there are much stronger arguments for it.
Also we are still discussing the theory, so stop insulting people who bring up valid counter arguments. Those reactions are the cause of so many people not even looking into indoctrination theory because they feel that we just want to shove our opinion down their throats without discussing counter arguments.

[Kanon777]

Ok i just read this again on the forums... Can someone post me a link about the datamined texture from Normandy crash jungle that was named "Dream"? I just want to see the link where the name was datamined

[NikolaiShade]

@greywardencommander

Actually, althought improbable, I think resisting indoctrination is possible, defeating the reapers would be the impossible... but doing both in the same game Shepard would go...to the place where the possible and the impossible meet, to become... the possimpible!

(sorry I couldn't resist )

[greywardencommander]

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...


ME2 had a 'best ending', so does ME3 - destroy with a high enough EMS. Why is it so impossible to think that DLC can be based on all the final decisions? (Edit rhetorical statement not a direct question at you)

Also regarding the literature I say in my thread that overcoming the Reaper's biggest weapon like a true hero is to ME3 what Ilos and Omega Relay were to ME1 and ME2 - 'true you made a career out of doing the impossible'

Having DLC that is based on your final descision would be pointless, because the only way to continue the story would be through the "destroy" choice. The other two choices would become irrelevant to the story at that point because everyone would know that the only way to keep playing is to do that choice.

I've said about 100 times now that destroy can be the best ending doesn't necessarily have to be because it means you resist it completely but because it gives you the best possible ending in future DLC, they can still account for the other two scenarios because (like the idea of him being indoctrinated in the app) they may have always INTENDED him to be indoctrinated.

He HAS to beat their greatest weapon to become a true hero (beating the impossible like in ME1 and ME2), not press some button that says destroy or magically merge with the Reapers that he can control them on the say-so of someone who says they control his enemy (alarm bells). Hell maybe he has to do a Saren and die so Harbinger takes over his body and the fleets kill him, who knows.

The point of IDT is that the DLC can take all that into account, however they do it so you don't have to retcon the ending at all it's just another variable on the way to an ending that can effect how 'perfect' it can be. Heck that last scenario is as 'bittersweet' as you can get.

The point is IDT is the idea that ALL of those decisions can matter including that final ending

Modifié par greywardencommander, 26 mars 2012 - 05:49 .

[nyrocron]

tobito113 wrote...

Ok i just read this again on the forums... Can someone post me a link about the datamined texture from Normandy crash jungle that was named "Dream"? I just want to see the link where the name was datamined

http://social.biowar...23/858#10568103

But it really does not have to mean anything, it is not the only place where those texture were used.

Modifié par nyrocron, 26 mars 2012 - 05:53 .

[greywardencommander]

NikolaiShade wrote...

@greywardencommander

Actually, althought improbable, I think resisting indoctrination is possible, defeating the reapers would be the impossible... but doing both in the same game Shepard would go...to the place where the possible and the impossible meet, to become... the possimpible!

(sorry I couldn't resist )

that's my point resisting it in ME or in real life indoctrination is far from permanent or unbeatable, 'impossible' is the ME1 Ilos situation and ME2 Omega Relay is 'impossible', why because society hasn't seen it happen thus it can't be possible (just like this plot twist if it's true). Basic psychology yet again. It's human nature the very thing that makes ME so compelling that it humanises their entire universe, even the Reapers.

[JTP117]

JTP117 wrote...

Okay, I'm in the one of the godchild dreams right now. I decided to walk into a group of the shadow figures to see if they said anything. I could hear them whispering. I swear to god I heard them say "don't trust him", "Get back commander" , "Someone outside is coming" (when I got close to the boy), "SHEPARD! (really loud elderly male voice), every time I got in a group of the whisps, "Stay away from him, trust yourself" (that one sent chills up my spine)

and has anyone noticed that the whisps almost blockade the boy? Like they don't want you near him? How about how the got louder and angrier as the whispered when you approached him.

I decided to write this as I played so I wouldn't forget anything. The dialogue of the whisps needs to be analyzed further, there's something important hidden in their speech, I just know it.

BUMP. Okay, several people have asked  me to make a separate thread about this. How do I do that?

[Vox Draco]

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

Having DLC that is based on your final descision would be pointless, because the only way to continue the story would be through the "destroy" choice. The other two choices would become irrelevant to the story at that point because everyone would know that the only way to keep playing is to do that choice.

Not if bioware would do the ultimate thing and goes the whole nine yards with a possible add-on DLC

I mean, how epic and shocking it would be if your Shepard chooses the fine green Synthesis End...and the DLC starts and your Shep is not much more than an advanced husk? You now end the game fighting against the last resistance on Earth, including your teammates, and help the reapers win. Much like the alternative DLC for Dragon Age where the Darkspawn won...

Or you choose control and wake up as well...and it would play out much like a normal, good "Retake Earth"-DLC where you chose the red ending and fight against the odds. But because you chose "control", almost all your decisions would somehow be flawed automatically and fail in some way. For example you decide in a battle for Wrex to attack some point, and he wil l surely die. Because the Reapers are still inluencing you, even if you don't want to and Shepard doesn't know. Maybe in the End there could be a final option, maybe through your LI, to overcome the Indoctrination, but only through the "Sarenbullettothehead"-way...that would be bittersweet, I guess.

Just some ideas on the matter that went through my mind after first hearing the ideas...And no matter what Bioware might really give us, I begin to think that the Game/DLC/Ideas developed during the last weeks by the fans are more awesome than anything Bioware can pull off...

[CannotCompute]

captainbob8383 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

@SomeRandomGuy8

@JessicaMerizan Also, we don't see a wound on Anderson after Shepard shoots him, another bug.


Jessica Merizan
‏
@JessicaMerizan



@SomeRandomGuy82 bug or intentional by the devs?

Thx man.
It's either a major hint or she's trolling us, but that's definitely not her style.
Tweet here: https://twitter.com/...087847064707072

Screenshot in case this tweet 'disappears':

Now that's another very interesting tweet

[Flapperrr]

JTP117 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

Okay, I'm in the one of the godchild dreams right now. I decided to walk into a group of the shadow figures to see if they said anything. I could hear them whispering. I swear to god I heard them say "don't trust him", "Get back commander" , "Someone outside is coming" (when I got close to the boy), "SHEPARD! (really loud elderly male voice), every time I got in a group of the whisps, "Stay away from him, trust yourself" (that one sent chills up my spine)

and has anyone noticed that the whisps almost blockade the boy? Like they don't want you near him? How about how the got louder and angrier as the whispered when you approached him.

I decided to write this as I played so I wouldn't forget anything. The dialogue of the whisps needs to be analyzed further, there's something important hidden in their speech, I just know it.

BUMP. Okay, several people have asked  me to make a separate thread about this. How do I do that?

Good idea. Dreams the strange, deserve separate discussion.

[Vahilor]

Vox Draco wrote...

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

Having DLC that is based on your final descision would be pointless, because the only way to continue the story would be through the "destroy" choice. The other two choices would become irrelevant to the story at that point because everyone would know that the only way to keep playing is to do that choice.

Not if bioware would do the ultimate thing and goes the whole nine yards with a possible add-on DLC

I mean, how epic and shocking it would be if your Shepard chooses the fine green Synthesis End...and the DLC starts and your Shep is not much more than an advanced husk? You now end the game fighting against the last resistance on Earth, including your teammates, and help the reapers win. Much like the alternative DLC for Dragon Age where the Darkspawn won...

Or you choose control and wake up as well...and it would play out much like a normal, good "Retake Earth"-DLC where you chose the red ending and fight against the odds. But because you chose "control", almost all your decisions would somehow be flawed automatically and fail in some way. For example you decide in a battle for Wrex to attack some point, and he wil l surely die. Because the Reapers are still inluencing you, even if you don't want to and Shepard doesn't know. Maybe in the End there could be a final option, maybe through your LI, to overcome the Indoctrination, but only through the "Sarenbullettothehead"-way...that would be bittersweet, I guess.

Just some ideas on the matter that went through my mind after first hearing the ideas...And no matter what Bioware might really give us, I begin to think that the Game/DLC/Ideas developed during the last weeks by the fans are more awesome than anything Bioware can pull off...

I totaly agree, if BW is clever they and make a DLC based on your decission, they will have options for all choices you made.. like Fallout 3 - Broken Steel, you even could play it when you sacrificed yourself =) by adding that you were rescued by the Lions Pride. YOu were near death but never actually died =).

[Fangalho]

if you think that's an interesting tweet (and, it is) check out angry joes indoctrination theory :



Check out the tweet at 19:12

Cheers

[FrostByte-GER]

nyrocron wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Ok i just read this again on the forums... Can someone post me a link about the datamined texture from Normandy crash jungle that was named "Dream"? I just want to see the link where the name was datamined

http://social.biowar...23/858#10568103

But it really does not have to mean anything, it is not the only place where those texture were used.

It's a definitely proof for me :D:D

[nyrocron]

Why? They could have created the texture for the dream sequence and then just reused it for several others, includung the Normandy crash planet. That is really no evidence.

Modifié par nyrocron, 26 mars 2012 - 06:14 .

[byne]

nyrocron wrote...

FrostByte-GER wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Ok i just read this again on the forums... Can someone post me a link about the datamined texture from Normandy crash jungle that was named "Dream"? I just want to see the link where the name was datamined

http://social.biowar...23/858#10568103

But it really does not have to mean anything, it is not the only place where those texture were used.

It's a definitely proof for me :D:D

Why? They could have created the texture for the dream sequence and then just reused it for several others, includung the Normandy crash planet. That is really no evidence.

At no point in any of the dream sequences with the godchild did I ever see lush jungle leaves. Just dead trees.

[FrostByte-GER]

nyrocron wrote...

Why? They could have created the texture for the dream sequence and then just reused it for several others, includung the Normandy crash planet. That is really no evidence.

hmm...I've never seen some of these plants in the dream sequences!

God I hate it to wait. BioWare should make a final statement. This annoys me - EXTREMELY-.-

Modifié par FrostByte-GER, 26 mars 2012 - 06:18 .

[Kanon777]

nyrocron wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Ok i just read this again on the forums... Can someone post me a link about the datamined texture from Normandy crash jungle that was named "Dream"? I just want to see the link where the name was datamined

http://social.biowar...23/858#10568103

But it really does not have to mean anything, it is not the only place where those texture were used.

Thanks