57139 réponses à ce sujet

[nyrocron]

Mastone wrote...

(...)
Why doesn't Javik, EDI or  Liara  see that you are indoctrinated, Javik had to fight in a much dirtier war then "we"are fighting now against the reapers and he sure as hell must be able to see indoctrination when it occurs,
(...)

Javik states that one reason the Protheans lost the war was because they were inflitrated by indoctrinated sleeper agents and were not able to detect it.
Asari mind melting does not work the same way the prothean stuff works.
Why would EDI recognize indoc. if not even the Protheans were able to do so?

Also the theory states that Shep is only in the process of being indoctrinated and is not really indoctrinated until the very end if you don't choose destroy.

[Kanon777]

Ok i have a save in after tuchanka i will try to listen to the dream there

Modifié par tobito113, 26 mars 2012 - 07:01 .

[greywardencommander]

Mastone wrote...

If IT is true( I still believe it's wishfull thinking from the fans part) then they should have given the real ending when the game released.
Also if it was the intention of Bioware to indoctrinate you, I think that there should be more subtle hints throughout the game, not only in the beginning and at the end, maybe show some spectre hunt you down.
Why doesn't Javik, EDI or  Liara  see that you are indoctrinated, Javik had to fight in a much dirtier war then "we"are fighting now against the reapers and he sure as hell must be able to see indoctrination when it occurs, EDI would recognize it, she is reaper tech through extend and Liara does this mindmelt thing  furthermore the Geth would have noticed...so if it is IT then I hope they have enough literary cement to cover up plotholes since I believe it will create just as much holes as it will fill up
Anyhow this is what I thought or at least hope that they will come up with:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9992961/407#10560783

do all the 'subtle' clues already gone over and the sheer psychology of the last 10 mins not point to it then?

The point is neither Shepard (or anyone else) knows he's indoctrinated yet because his willpower was so strong and the process is so subtle through stages that he's been able to resist being full indoctrinated. If Shepard doesn't know, we don't know Shepard is our eyes and ears. Think having a spectre chase you would take away from the subtley and not make it an excellent twist do you not think?

Do you not think running on IDT and that your decision matters probably more than all others combined makes for the widest range of endings, from happy to doom (reapers win) to bittersweet (being indoctrinated, resisting at the last second to sacrifice yourself for the galaxy) much better than just pretending the last 10 minutes didn't exist? Much better ending fix than actually fixing the endings.

[JTP117]

tobito113 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

Okay, I'm in the one of the godchild dreams right now. I decided to walk into a group of the shadow figures to see if they said anything. I could hear them whispering. I swear to god I heard them say "don't trust him", "Get back commander" , "Someone outside is coming" (when I got close to the boy), "SHEPARD! (really loud elderly male voice), every time I got in a group of the whisps, "Stay away from him, trust yourself" (that one sent chills up my spine)

Can someone confirm this? This would be a really strong evidence

Also on a side note, that line did not occur every time, it was the male voice that SPOKE every time, it was the only voice I heard, that "stay away from him, trust yourself" I only heard twice while exploring.

[Chyliss]

I think the shape of the Crucible is interesting too, it looks EXACTLY like EDI's VI form on the Normandy in ME2. A bobble-headed thingy with blue sparkplugs sitting on a curvy stick. LOL

[PluralAces]

savagejuicebox wrote...

PluralAces wrote...

I did think that the swtiched colors for the control/destroy was weird.

But if indoctrination is the case, and none of what we experienced actually happened and was just a hallucination, then doesnt that make the ending even more stupid?

Thats for you to decide. To me it makes the ending better than anything i thought they would do. I figured there would be a twist but, this... this is epic.

It woudl still leave the same number of holes and the same number or more questions that still need to be answered.

Now, thinking about it, I am wondering if TIM was already indoctrinated in ME2 like I originally thought,. Because if he was, why would the Reapers let him reconstruct Shepherd if they knew he is the only one who can bring about their destruction?

I dont know...all these theories...all I'm asking for is for an expansion of the endings they already created, answer the unanswered questions about the current ending they gave us.

[n00bsauce2010]

JTP117 wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

JTP117 wrote...

Okay, I'm in the one of the godchild dreams right now. I decided to walk into a group of the shadow figures to see if they said anything. I could hear them whispering. I swear to god I heard them say "don't trust him", "Get back commander" , "Someone outside is coming" (when I got close to the boy), "SHEPARD! (really loud elderly male voice), every time I got in a group of the whisps, "Stay away from him, trust yourself" (that one sent chills up my spine)

Can someone confirm this? This would be a really strong evidence

Also on a side note, that line did not occur every time, it was the male voice that SPOKE every time, it was the only voice I heard, that "stay away from him, trust yourself" I only heard twice while exploring.

someone needs to confirm this with a video. thats pretty daming evidence in my opinion.

[n00bsauce2010]

PluralAces wrote...

savagejuicebox wrote...

PluralAces wrote...

I did think that the swtiched colors for the control/destroy was weird.

But if indoctrination is the case, and none of what we experienced actually happened and was just a hallucination, then doesnt that make the ending even more stupid?

Thats for you to decide. To me it makes the ending better than anything i thought they would do. I figured there would be a twist but, this... this is epic.

It woudl still leave the same number of holes and the same number or more questions that still need to be answered.

Now, thinking about it, I am wondering if TIM was already indoctrinated in ME2 like I originally thought,. Because if he was, why would the Reapers let him reconstruct Shepherd if they knew he is the only one who can bring about their destruction?

I dont know...all these theories...all I'm asking for is for an expansion of the endings they already created, answer the unanswered questions about the current ending they gave us.

It's safe to assume TIM is indoctrinated in ME2. From what I understand, in one of the novels he comes into contact with some sort of reaper tech and comes out with those blue eyes. Just because you're indoctrinated doesn't mean you don't have some sort of free will. He says shepard was merely a tool in the grand theme. Therefore if he believed control was the only option (a reaper created fallacy) then shepard was beside the point to him. Harbinger also says many times in quotes that shepard is important and that he wants him alive.

Modifié par n00bsauce2010, 26 mars 2012 - 07:07 .

[Dendio1]

More evidence supporting Indoctrination Theory:

At least two previous times in Me3 the Illusive man comments how he and shepard will never see eye to eye, but he respects shepard for holding fast to his own beliefs. The Illusive man has never cared about convincing shepard towards his goals. Shep and the Illusive man always go back and forth with TIM ending the conversation essentionally agreeing to disagree and  losing interest going back and forth on philosophies with shepard. Then suddenly during the final dialogue Illusive man does everything he can to get you to agree with him. If you choose to ask him why hes bothering with you and anderson instead of doing his deal with the reapers, he says " Because you have to understand" This is severely out of character for TIM. Tim never gave a damn about what shepard thinks.

Secondly its not possible that Tim can control shepard and anderson. Sanctuary allowed Cerberus to control husks. Shepard and Anderson are nothing close to Husks.

Modifié par Dendio1, 26 mars 2012 - 07:10 .

[Phaelducan]

Dendio1 wrote...

More evidence supporting Indoctrination Theory:

At least two previous times in Me3 the Illusive man comments how he and shepard will never see eye to eye, but he respects shepard for holding fast to his own beliefs. The Illusive man has never cared about convincing shepard towards his goals. Shep and the Illusive man always go back and forth with TIM ending the conversation essentionally agreeing to disagree and  losing interest going back and forth on philosophies with shepard. Then suddenly during the final dialogue Illusive man does everything he can to get you to agree with him. If you choose to ask him why hes bothering with you and anderson instead of doing his deal with the reapers, he says " Because you have to understand" This is severely out of character for TIM. Tim never gave a damn about what shepard thinks.

Secondly its not possible that Tim can control shepard and anderson. Sanctuary allowed Cerberus to control husks. Shepard and Anderson are nothing close to Husks.

I was wondering about that part with TIM controlling the N7's. Seems odd and out of place though. Why would Shep imagine it on his own, OR why would Harbinger plug it in? The scene would work fine without direct control, shrug.

[Voriax]

just found this on mass effect wiki :
It was first reported to Commander Shepard by farmers on Eden Prime, who claimed there was a horrible noise coming from Sovereign as it descended.

it reminds me of vega complaining about the noise in the normandy ( the hum he nags about)

[Abram730]

Baltar2009 wrote...

Kyzee wrote...


You were the one who brought it up. You can't do that and then act incredulous when people point out how inappropriate the comparison is. Obviously, what you say is just as important as how you say it. 

All I am asking for is civility here. We can disagree with each other without being insulting.

As for how IT is more satisfying, I would suggest you read this article. It points out a lot of the narrative issues in the ending. Hope that helps.   https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

Yeah, I get all that.  I'm saying IT doesn't improve the situation.

No IT: The ending makes no sense.
IT: No ending.

Sorry, this isn't acceptable.

So you hate Mass Effect and demand they stop making them?  IC

ME3 ends in a Boss fight with harbinger.  It's not a usual fight, but it is a fight.

Modifié par Abram730, 26 mars 2012 - 07:26 .

[n00bsauce2010]

SwobyJ wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

More evidence supporting Indoctrination Theory:

At least two previous times in Me3 the Illusive man comments how he and shepard will never see eye to eye, but he respects shepard for holding fast to his own beliefs. The Illusive man has never cared about convincing shepard towards his goals. Shep and the Illusive man always go back and forth with TIM ending the conversation essentionally agreeing to disagree and  losing interest going back and forth on philosophies with shepard. Then suddenly during the final dialogue Illusive man does everything he can to get you to agree with him. If you choose to ask him why hes bothering with you and anderson instead of doing his deal with the reapers, he says " Because you have to understand" This is severely out of character for TIM. Tim never gave a damn about what shepard thinks.

Secondly its not possible that Tim can control shepard and anderson. Sanctuary allowed Cerberus to control husks. Shepard and Anderson are nothing close to Husks.

He never even ordered Shepard dead even - just impeded or stopped (Kai Leng is the crazy one here). He only wanted Miranda dead if she was directly in Leng's way.

Strange.

TIM has a hardon for shep just like Harbinger <3 A match created inside a reaper made fallacy. awww

[augustburnt]

People are getting desperate arent they...

[CannotCompute]

Guys, is it just me or do we hear that growling noise again in the final scene where we see Shepard lying in the rubble? (4:30 - 4:40 of this video)

Sounds almost the same as the noise we hear as soon as Shep 'snaps out of it" during the 'boy in the ducts scene' from the intro level.

Thoughts?

Modifié par CannotCompute, 26 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[n00bsauce2010]

CannotCompute wrote...

Guys, is it just me or do we hear that growling noise again in the final scene where we see Shepard lying in the rubble? (4:30 - 4:40 of this video)

Sounds almost the same as the noise we hear as soon as Shep 'snaps out of it" during the 'boy in the ducts scene' from the intro level.

Thoughts?

I didn't hear a growl. That could be my lack of hearing ability.

[nyrocron]

CannotCompute wrote...

Guys, is it just me or do we hear that growling noise again in the final scene where we see Shepard lying in the rubble? (4:30 - 4:40 of this video)

Sounds almost the same as the noise we hear as soon as Shep 'snaps out of it" during the 'boy in the ducts scene' from the intro level.

Thoughts?

Yes.

[Dendio1]

CannotCompute wrote...

Guys, is it just me or do we hear that growling noise again in the final scene where we see Shepard lying in the rubble? (4:30 - 4:40 of this video)

Sounds like the same noise we hear as soon as Shep 'snaps out of it" during the 'boy in the ducts scene' from the intro level.

Thoughts?

Yea...definetely matches what we witnessed when anderson snapped shep out of it. The growl accompanying reaper rejection. Nice find!

Also go to the end where you choose control, synthesis or destroy. Control and Synthesis have the same dreadful music playing, but as you make your way to Destroy there is a definate angelic note the plays and lingers for a while.

Listen to it, there is no doubting that it was intentional. It only plays as you make your way to destroy

Modifié par Dendio1, 26 mars 2012 - 07:31 .

[Kanon777]

augustburnt wrote...

People are getting desperate arent they...

Honestly i dont think IT is true, but there is huge ammount of circunstantial evidence that this could be real. So there is no point in comming here if all you can do is make comments like this. 

It would be better if you just tell them why you think its wrong...

[Angmir]

CannotCompute wrote...

Guys, is it just me or do we hear that growling noise again in the final scene where we see Shepard lying in the rubble? (4:30 - 4:40 of this video)

Sounds like the same noise we hear as soon as Shep 'snaps out of it" during the 'boy in the ducts scene' from the intro level.

Thoughts?

It is just wind ? It doesnt somund like growling sound when Shepards indoctrination fails.

Calm down people We dont need any further evidence now - The Indoctrination Theory is REAL.

[Dendio1]

Angmir wrote...

CannotCompute wrote...

Guys, is it just me or do we hear that growling noise again in the final scene where we see Shepard lying in the rubble? (4:30 - 4:40 of this video)

Sounds like the same noise we hear as soon as Shep 'snaps out of it" during the 'boy in the ducts scene' from the intro level.

Thoughts?

It is just wind ? It doesnt somund like growling sound when Shepards indoctrination fails.

Calm down people We dont need any further evidence now - The Indoctrination Theory is REAL.

Everything in that final scene is intentional. We shouldnt hand wave it off as meaningless. The scene is silent except for three things. The reaper rejection growl, The background atmospehere and Sheps breath

For arguements sake the wind (background atmosphere) is present and distinguishable from the reaper growl

Modifié par Dendio1, 26 mars 2012 - 07:36 .

[greywardencommander]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

My thoughts about why the real ending wasn't included. Either bioware/ea wanted to lead into a mass effect 3 expansion pack or dlc or possibly even mass effect 4.

I don't think there is a "right" ending though. The game can continue no matter which side you picked. In my opinion if greywardencommander can come up with loads of ideas to why that could work with the indoctrination theory then so can a team of 5-6 writers at bioware (no offense.)

Also did anyone manage to take a look at the zorya picture? it looks identical to the "oasis planet" that the normandy lands on. it even has two moons the same size. Also someone figured out that the relay magic explosions originate in the viper nebula. A.k.a alpha relay (Arrival DLC Me2) I think its like page 895 or 896.

none at all I'm just a psychologist not a writer (well hobby wise I write) lol
Also for the reasons I state in my signature thread, not having you jump straight in after giving in or overcoming IS crucial to the plot twist (if it is one)
Like you say it might be an Awakening style Expansion for £15 or DLC or ME4 but I don't think that correlates with the statements about variety in endings (outside of imagination because that's beside the point, that's not how a game should work when you spend £40 on it, to an extent leave some to the imagination but not pretty much everything) which leads me to believe that it's a PR stunt and marketing attempt to gain world-wide notoriety outside of the gaming community for THE biggest plot twist and breaking the fourth wall in entertainment history.

Lol, I write as a hobby as well. Do you write fan fiction or original stuff and do you upload it somewhere? Just curious.

As for the expansion thing i really hope they make any ending related DLC free as the backlash will be pretty burtal if they dont.

But as for the plot twist thing I fully agree. If Bioware pulls this of like we theorize they stand to gain an enormous amount of attention as well as probably regaining the trust of any fans that felt led down by the ending and/or DA2. It could secure their position as the top writers in the gaming world for years.

I write character and guild lore (e.g. for SWTOR where I run the guild well as much as I can with the lack of people on our server but the hardcore people I game with make it fun) and I write short stories and stuff as well. I'm a perfectionist though so the latter is not for the public eye, not yet anyway. Character and guild lore for my guild is easily found though (at minute I have a main and various alts who I'm trying to integrate into the story and game using the legacy system i.e. siblings, cousins etc)

Re. DA2 I felt the only thing that let DA2 was the gameplay I personally enjoyed the frame narrative and the Acts set up, the depth in characters over the 7 years etc and the point of it all leading to the perhaps obvious conclusion that in the end Hawke's and the Warden's paths or at least legacy's would cross

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Angmir wrote...

CannotCompute wrote...

Guys, is it just me or do we hear that growling noise again in the final scene where we see Shepard lying in the rubble? (4:30 - 4:40 of this video)

Sounds like the same noise we hear as soon as Shep 'snaps out of it" during the 'boy in the ducts scene' from the intro level.

Thoughts?

It is just wind ? It doesnt somund like growling sound when Shepards indoctrination fails.

Calm down people We dont need any further evidence now - The Indoctrination Theory is REAL.

We can always use more evidence. I am constructing a dreadnought from it and once complete I will explore the other side of the endings plotholes.

[robdunnhill]

CannotCompute wrote...

Guys, is it just me or do we hear that growling noise again in the final scene where we see Shepard lying in the rubble? (4:30 - 4:40 of this video)

Sounds almost the same as the noise we hear as soon as Shep 'snaps out of it" during the 'boy in the ducts scene' from the intro level.

Thoughts?

good find! want to think its true, it might be my crappy speakers but it sounds slightly lighter than a growl, i really hope this theory is true tho i even checked a dif vid to see if it was edited and it had the same noise.