Listen carefully at 4:35, in my opinion it is definitely there.
Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory
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byne
, mars 10 2012 12:46
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#22727
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 07:41
greywardencommander
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that's the point though isn't it we don't know we're indoctrinated prior to the last scene where something is clearly up thus either way everything prior to the last scene can be circumstantial. Even the stargazer and sentence about Shephard and DLC is supposed to show that it's far from the end.tobito113 wrote...
augustburnt wrote...
People are getting desperate arent they...
Honestly i dont think IT is true, but there is huge ammount of circunstantial evidence that this could be real. So there is no point in comming here if all you can do is make comments like this.
It would be better if you just tell them why you think its wrong...
Thus everything prior to the final 10 mins can be dismissed as circumstantial EITHER WAY, that's the point so you don't notice it the first time. Once you realise you've been indoctrinated all along you see everything how it is supposed to be and you look back and realise all those things you thought were nothing actually are clues.
Basic psychology of confirmation bias, you think IT is fake that's your theory. You think IT is real, that's your theory. Everything else is just circumstantial until CONFIRMATION e.g. at PAX.
That's what makes it so compelling to think they did real life indoctrination and breaking the fourth wall if it truly is IDT then it is the biggest plot twist and marketing stunt in history YOU are Shepard.
Edit: check my wall of text in my signature thread for the psychological analysis of why the ending sequence (including Stargazer) and the DLC statement in game suggest (not prove) that the IDT/hallucination theory might be right. I also use the same psychological analysis to show that it is not as big a risk as you might think (if free) and that it would barely be remembered for that particular aspect.
p.s if you do read it (even just the ideas for DLC part) please let me know here or on that thread as I put a hell of a lot of effort into applying my psychology background into it and also coming up with creative ways for DLC to work based on all three colours lol
Modifié par greywardencommander, 26 mars 2012 - 07:49 .
#22728
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 07:41
CannotCompute
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Yeah, there's the sound of wind, but there's definitely another sound as well in the beginning of that final scene. It at least closely resembles the growling sound from the ducts scene if you compare it 1 on 1.
Edit: Yeah, at about 4:35.
Edit: Yeah, at about 4:35.
Modifié par CannotCompute, 26 mars 2012 - 07:46 .
#22729
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 07:42
RoyalGambit
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Dunno, sounded about right to me.Angmir wrote...
CannotCompute wrote...
Guys, is it just me or do we hear that growling noise again in the final scene where we see Shepard lying in the rubble? (4:30 - 4:40 of this video)
Sounds like the same noise we hear as soon as Shep 'snaps out of it" during the 'boy in the ducts scene' from the intro level.
Thoughts?
It is just wind ? It doesnt somund like growling sound when Shepards indoctrination fails.
Calm down people We dont need any further evidence now - The Indoctrination Theory is REAL.
#22730
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 07:44
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
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Ok new threads make no sense... I believe the indoctrination theory is correct. One more indication: We have two endings with a reaper thinking and only one that stands against them.
1. Destruction ending: Clear - you decide against the reapers. You make the hard choice to destroy all synthetics to get rid of the reapers as you deem their threat too great.
2. Control ending: You have assumed the reaper's way of thinking. You believe that to control a lifeform, dictate its behavior, is better than to destroy it. That's exactly what the reapers do to organic races through indoctrination and incorporating them into reaper shells - they override their independence and free will.
3. Synthesis ending: Again, you think like the reapers. The reapers ARE organic-synthetic hybrids. By choosing to populate the universe with such hybrids, you decide against diversity and for uniformity because you follow the thinking that racial diversity inevitably breeds conflict, even though EDI/Joker, the geth/quarian resolution et al prove that thinking wrong.
The ending is clearly an indoctrination attempt.
1. Destruction ending: Clear - you decide against the reapers. You make the hard choice to destroy all synthetics to get rid of the reapers as you deem their threat too great.
2. Control ending: You have assumed the reaper's way of thinking. You believe that to control a lifeform, dictate its behavior, is better than to destroy it. That's exactly what the reapers do to organic races through indoctrination and incorporating them into reaper shells - they override their independence and free will.
3. Synthesis ending: Again, you think like the reapers. The reapers ARE organic-synthetic hybrids. By choosing to populate the universe with such hybrids, you decide against diversity and for uniformity because you follow the thinking that racial diversity inevitably breeds conflict, even though EDI/Joker, the geth/quarian resolution et al prove that thinking wrong.
The ending is clearly an indoctrination attempt.
#22731
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 07:46
zalfy
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nyrocron wrote...
Listen carefully at 4:35, in my opinion it is definitely there.
The "growl" sounds from a Reaper sound very different than what's in the last cutscene. Sounds more like metal/building pieces bending or something.
Modifié par zalfy, 26 mars 2012 - 07:47 .
#22732
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 07:48
Turbotanden
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It is interesting to me how we have quite a lot of good evidence pointing towards IT, so people are looking for other subtle hints towards this, and when people find something they bring it here so that more people can examine it. But every single time someone has to come along and say "omg that piece of evidence is so grasping at straws", as if some random point that might be a hint is the basis of the whole theory.
#22733
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 07:50
greywardencommander
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exactly see the above about how everything in game is SUPPOSED to be subtle otherwise you notice it and negate the whole point of being indoctrinated (Shepard is YOU, YOU are Shepard you live the game as them thus if s/he doesn't notice it you don't)Turbotanden wrote...
It is interesting to me how we have quite a lot of good evidence pointing towards IT, so people are looking for other subtle hints towards this, and when people find something they bring it here so that more people can examine it. But every single time someone has to come along and say "omg that piece of evidence is so grasping at straws", as if some random point that might be a hint is the basis of the whole theory.
Modifié par greywardencommander, 26 mars 2012 - 07:51 .
#22734
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 07:54
monrapias
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The end will be the start of me1, you're waking up after the first encounter of the beam, it was all a dream 
(kidding). So it seems that we might get something in april.
(kidding). So it seems that we might get something in april.
#22735
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 07:56
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I think that Harbinger is creating a human reaper in the citadel. The citadel is a trap once more - this time for Shepard, the human that harbinger has been so keen to add to his human reaper in ME2. Now he finally has his chance. And if Shepard doesn't choose the destroy ending he will be added to the reaper.
Just watched the final scenes again - when Shepard ends up on the citadel after entering the beam and sees all that carnage around him, that's indicative of what really happens. The music also supports the feeling of overwhelming danger, it's just brilliant.
Harbinger is on an enormously personal level with Shepard in ME2 and almost never appears in ME3 - we almost forgot about him or his desire to get Shepard for his reaper. He only prepares his lies through the fallen reaper on Rannoch. Clever.
This also explains why the reapers don't shut down the relay network - Harbinger wants to get Shepard.
Man, I sure hope this all proves to be true, because it turns one of the worst endings in videogame history into one of the best.
Just watched the final scenes again - when Shepard ends up on the citadel after entering the beam and sees all that carnage around him, that's indicative of what really happens. The music also supports the feeling of overwhelming danger, it's just brilliant.
Harbinger is on an enormously personal level with Shepard in ME2 and almost never appears in ME3 - we almost forgot about him or his desire to get Shepard for his reaper. He only prepares his lies through the fallen reaper on Rannoch. Clever.
This also explains why the reapers don't shut down the relay network - Harbinger wants to get Shepard.
Man, I sure hope this all proves to be true, because it turns one of the worst endings in videogame history into one of the best.
Modifié par Sareth Cousland, 26 mars 2012 - 07:59 .
#22736
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 07:57
ean0611
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I just realized something. The game had to end exactly where it did.
Why? Because, we'd NEVER look at all the subtle hints that Harbinger is trying to indoctrinate Shepard. Emphasis on "trying", as if you pick destroy, Harbinger has failed.
If the game continued, we'd never look at all the evidence, we'd just "know" that's what happened, because Bioware would have just handed it to us.
If indoctrination is part of this, there was no way for it to have any impact done any other way. This way, we actually question. Bioware has forced us to think.
Why? Because, we'd NEVER look at all the subtle hints that Harbinger is trying to indoctrinate Shepard. Emphasis on "trying", as if you pick destroy, Harbinger has failed.
If the game continued, we'd never look at all the evidence, we'd just "know" that's what happened, because Bioware would have just handed it to us.
If indoctrination is part of this, there was no way for it to have any impact done any other way. This way, we actually question. Bioware has forced us to think.
#22737
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 07:58
Pezza360
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I support IT. But then I thought of something.
What if the indoctrination theory is an indoctrination?
An indoctrination anticipated or even started by Ea/Bioware to make us hold the line and not give up hope, despite grueling circumstances, with the loss of so much already. This indoctrination would boost the sales of future DLC tenfold.
So Bioware/EA want we the players to believe we were indoctrinated by indoctrinating us so we could buy DLC to resist indoctrination when really in doing so we would become fully indoctrinated.
Makes as much sense as the synthetics killing organics so they don't create synthetics which would kill organics.
What if the indoctrination theory is an indoctrination?
An indoctrination anticipated or even started by Ea/Bioware to make us hold the line and not give up hope, despite grueling circumstances, with the loss of so much already. This indoctrination would boost the sales of future DLC tenfold.
So Bioware/EA want we the players to believe we were indoctrinated by indoctrinating us so we could buy DLC to resist indoctrination when really in doing so we would become fully indoctrinated.
Makes as much sense as the synthetics killing organics so they don't create synthetics which would kill organics.
#22738
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 07:59
Earthborn_Shepard
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The fact that the textures of the planet at the very ending have "dream" in their names combined with masseffect's tweet that this scene should probably be handled with caution makes me pretty certain that there's at least SOME kind of dream/indoc included.
#22739
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:00
Sammuthegreat
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Pezza360 wrote...
I support IT. But then I thought of something.
What if the indoctrination theory is an indoctrination?
An indoctrination anticipated or even started by Ea/Bioware to make us hold the line and not give up hope, despite grueling circumstances, with the loss of so much already. This indoctrination would boost the sales of future DLC tenfold.
So Bioware/EA want we the players to believe we were indoctrinated by indoctrinating us so we could buy DLC to resist indoctrination when really in doing so we would become fully indoctrinated.
Makes as much sense as the synthetics killing organics so they don't create synthetics which would kill organics.
I think this is where I'm meant to insert an Xzibit meme.
INDOCEPTION
#22740
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:01
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ean0611 wrote...
I just realized something. The game had to end exactly where it did.
Why? Because, we'd NEVER look at all the subtle hints that Harbinger is trying to indoctrinate Shepard. Emphasis on "trying", as if you pick destroy, Harbinger has failed.
If the game continued, we'd never look at all the evidence, we'd just "know" that's what happened, because Bioware would have just handed it to us.
If indoctrination is part of this, there was no way for it to have any impact done any other way. This way, we actually question. Bioware has forced us to think.
Well, they could have suggested the game is over after the control and synthesis endings, but allowed you to continue playing after picking the destroy ending. But true, the impact it has now is overwhelming.
Modifié par Sareth Cousland, 26 mars 2012 - 08:04 .
#22741
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:01
augustburnt
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tobito113 wrote...
augustburnt wrote...
People are getting desperate arent they...
Honestly i dont think IT is true, but there is huge ammount of circunstantial evidence that this could be real. So there is no point in comming here if all you can do is make comments like this.
It would be better if you just tell them why you think its wrong...
I used to believe in the IT, but recent things said by Bioware have convinced me its just **** writing.
#22742
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:04
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
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augustburnt wrote...
I used to believe in the IT, but recent things said by Bioware have convinced me its just **** writing.
source please.
#22743
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:04
byne
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Pezza360 wrote...
What if the indoctrination theory is an indoctrination?
An indoctrination anticipated or even started by Ea/Bioware to make us hold the line and not give up hope, despite grueling circumstances, with the loss of so much already.
Thats the second time I've heard someone suggest that.
If its true, by starting this thread, I am technically a Bioware employee, and I demand my paycheck!
#22744
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:05
Raistlin Majare 1992
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augustburnt wrote...
tobito113 wrote...
augustburnt wrote...
People are getting desperate arent they...
Honestly i dont think IT is true, but there is huge ammount of circunstantial evidence that this could be real. So there is no point in comming here if all you can do is make comments like this.
It would be better if you just tell them why you think its wrong...
I used to believe in the IT, but recent things said by Bioware have convinced me its just **** writing.
Like?
The things I have seen from Bioware lately ahs been just as vague as always since ME3 hit. The only definite we have gotten out of them is "More info coming in April."
#22745
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:05
ME3endingsucks2
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augustburnt wrote...
tobito113 wrote...
augustburnt wrote...
People are getting desperate arent they...
Honestly i dont think IT is true, but there is huge ammount of circunstantial evidence that this could be real. So there is no point in comming here if all you can do is make comments like this.
It would be better if you just tell them why you think its wrong...
I used to believe in the IT, but recent things said by Bioware have convinced me its just **** writing.
absolutely everything Bioware has said does nothing but play into IT. What are you reading?
#22746
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:06
Vox Draco
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CannotCompute wrote...
Guys, is it just me or do we hear that growling noise again in the final scene where we see Shepard lying in the rubble? (4:30 - 4:40 of this video)
Sounds almost the same as the noise we hear as soon as Shep 'snaps out of it" during the 'boy in the ducts scene' from the intro level.
Thoughts?
Not so sure about the Reaper sound but...damn, whenever I see that seen and listen to this last "breath" it sounds exactly like someone suddenly waking from a very bad dream...
*keeps fingers corssed*
#22747
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:06
Raistlin Majare 1992
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ean0611 wrote...
I just realized something. The game had to end exactly where it did.
Why? Because, we'd NEVER look at all the subtle hints that Harbinger is trying to indoctrinate Shepard. Emphasis on "trying", as if you pick destroy, Harbinger has failed.
If the game continued, we'd never look at all the evidence, we'd just "know" that's what happened, because Bioware would have just handed it to us.
If indoctrination is part of this, there was no way for it to have any impact done any other way. This way, we actually question. Bioware has forced us to think.
Exactly all the impact would be lost if Shepard simply woke and was like "That was a dream/Indoctrination? Oh well time to kill the Reapers for real this time!"
#22748
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:07
ArkkAngel007
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CannotCompute wrote...
Yeah, there's the sound of wind, but there's definitely another sound as well in the beginning of that final scene. It at least closely resembles the growling sound from the ducts scene if you compare it 1 on 1.
Edit: Yeah, at about 4:35.
We went through this multiple times about 500-600 pages back. It's structural stress.
I support IT, but let's not lose our minds.
#22749
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:08
Kyzee
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CannotCompute wrote...
Guys, is it just me or do we hear that growling noise again in the final scene where we see Shepard lying in the rubble? (4:30 - 4:40 of this video)
Sounds almost the same as the noise we hear as soon as Shep 'snaps out of it" during the 'boy in the ducts scene' from the intro level.
Thoughts?
It sounds more like debris and metal settling than a growl to me, actually.
#22750
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:10
ArkkAngel007
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ME3endingsucks2 wrote...
augustburnt wrote...
tobito113 wrote...
augustburnt wrote...
People are getting desperate arent they...
Honestly i dont think IT is true, but there is huge ammount of circunstantial evidence that this could be real. So there is no point in comming here if all you can do is make comments like this.
It would be better if you just tell them why you think its wrong...
I used to believe in the IT, but recent things said by Bioware have convinced me its just **** writing.
absolutely everything Bioware has said does nothing but play into IT. What are you reading?
Probably referring to some of the stuff from Twitter and Final Hours. To be honest, the ME twitterfeed has been contradictory throughout this whole process, and what hasn't been so has been vague enough to where it can be twisted in either direction.
