57139 réponses à ce sujet

[greywardencommander]

ean0611 wrote...

I just realized something. The game had to end exactly where it did.

Why? Because, we'd NEVER look at all the subtle hints that Harbinger is trying to indoctrinate Shepard. Emphasis on "trying", as if you pick destroy, Harbinger has failed.

If the game continued, we'd never look at all the evidence, we'd just "know" that's what happened, because Bioware would have just handed it to us.

If indoctrination is part of this, there was no way for it to have any impact done any other way. This way, we actually question. Bioware has forced us to think.

Again see my thread in signature, it's simple psychology, you use the idea of you believing the ending wasn't real and then look AT EVERYTHING to  show you the subtle hints.

Thus they want this speculation so EVERYONE can see this idea (it's not in fanfiction and been tweeted to)
Confirmation bias works both ways those convinced the endings are final or rubbish etc flame that it's bad writing or the real world implications (I discuss the psychology of internet behaviour itself and inter-group relations) they knew it would happen, wanted it to.

It would have nowhere near the effect of a plot twist if you carried on the game straight away reloaded and picked the 'right option' thus even if they retcon it makes sense (the gameplay mechanic problem of controlling the player when they have the controls) OR they want the DLC to continue based on that choice thus the gameplay mechanic doesn't matter because they can make everything the same with dialogue and cutscenes showing the differences (e.g. eyes etc). Thus without applying it to the player, it has nothing in terms of plot twist impact in the way of Fight Club, oh he overcame it cool lets carry on.

This way you carry on (with a free update, dlc, they give you a code or whatever) the game as if it had just happened but YOU KNOW it happened in a way so immersive it's 'impossible' but the thing is...it's not.

Thus if it's true it's genius, breaking the fourth wall by indoctrinating the player who in every sense of the word throughout the series IS Shepard.

[IronSabbath88]

In a week or so, this thread will either be triumphant in victory or accepting in defeat.

The point is, there will be people who will try to laugh at us and say I told you so and judging from the people here, I don't think we'll be the same way if this turns out to be true.

[Henioo]

1. Destruction ending: Clear - you decide against the reapers. You make the hard choice to destroy all synthetics to get rid of the reapers as you deem their threat too great.

On th eother hand... you kind of do what the reapers would do. You kill certain species (AI) in order for the other (organics) to live.

[Kanon777]

augustburnt wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

augustburnt wrote...

People are getting desperate arent they...

Honestly i dont think IT is true, but there is huge ammount of circunstantial evidence that this could be real. So there is no point in comming here if all you can do is make comments like this. 

It would be better if you just tell them why you think its wrong...

I used to believe in the IT, but recent things said by Bioware have convinced me its just **** writing.

I agree, but that is the only reason i dismiss IT, the ingame evidence is there...

[greywardencommander]

byne wrote...

Pezza360 wrote...

What if the indoctrination theory is an indoctrination?
An indoctrination anticipated or even started by Ea/Bioware to make us hold the line and not give up hope, despite grueling circumstances, with the loss of so much already.

Thats the second time I've heard someone suggest that.

If its true, by starting this thread, I am technically a Bioware employee, and I demand my paycheck!

we have no idea you're not  nor anyone else in this thread or the videos nor that the 'script leak' and the endings still being the same despite the outcry of the leak, even the video HOW DO WE KNOW that everyone isn't just bioware employees coming in and instigating the conversation to keep the thread trending.

Thus to say they're not clever enough...a lot of game writers and creators are amongst the cleverest people you can think of if it involves a story and impact.

The out of world stuff like the PR the cryptic clues it's all non commital and double speak, classic PR, classic psychology BECAUSE they want as many people to pick up this theory (hence the direct link)

Modifié par greywardencommander, 26 mars 2012 - 08:16 .

[KillTheWiseOne]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

The fact that the textures of the planet at the very ending have "dream" in their names combined with masseffect's tweet that this scene should probably be handled with caution makes me pretty certain that there's at least SOME kind of dream/indoc included.

Wait, I'm new to this whole thing, is this true, because that is clearly the best indication right there.

[ean0611]

greywardencommander wrote...

ean0611 wrote...

I just realized something. The game had to end exactly where it did.

Why? Because, we'd NEVER look at all the subtle hints that Harbinger is trying to indoctrinate Shepard. Emphasis on "trying", as if you pick destroy, Harbinger has failed.

If the game continued, we'd never look at all the evidence, we'd just "know" that's what happened, because Bioware would have just handed it to us.

If indoctrination is part of this, there was no way for it to have any impact done any other way. This way, we actually question. Bioware has forced us to think.

Again see my thread in signature, it's simple psychology, you use the idea of you believing the ending wasn't real and then look AT EVERYTHING to  show you the subtle hints.

Thus they want this speculation so EVERYONE can see this idea (it's not in fanfiction and been tweeted to)
Confirmation bias works both ways those convinced the endings are final or rubbish etc flame that it's bad writing or the real world implications (I discuss the psychology of internet behaviour itself and inter-group relations) they knew it would happen, wanted it to.

It would have nowhere near the effect of a plot twist if you carried on the game straight away reloaded and picked the 'right option' thus even if they retcon it makes sense (the gameplay mechanic problem of controlling the player when they have the controls) OR they want the DLC to continue based on that choice thus the gameplay mechanic doesn't matter because they can make everything the same with dialogue and cutscenes showing the differences (e.g. eyes etc). Thus without applying it to the player, it has nothing in terms of plot twist impact in the way of Fight Club, oh he overcame it cool lets carry on.

This way you carry on (with a free update, dlc, they give you a code or whatever) the game as if it had just happened but YOU KNOW it happened in a way so immersive it's 'impossible' but the thing is...it's not.

Thus if it's true it's genius, breaking the fourth wall by indoctrinating the player who in every sense of the word throughout the series IS Shepard.

I read your post much earlier today. Great stuff. I've been activly trying to find data against I.T. as conformation bias is a huge issue. I can't find hard data against it.

[byne]

tobito113 wrote...

augustburnt wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

augustburnt wrote...

People are getting desperate arent they...

Honestly i dont think IT is true, but there is huge ammount of circunstantial evidence that this could be real. So there is no point in comming here if all you can do is make comments like this. 

It would be better if you just tell them why you think its wrong...

I used to believe in the IT, but recent things said by Bioware have convinced me its just **** writing.

I agree, but that is the only reason i dismiss IT, the ingame evidence is there...

Honestly, if it was intended all along, dont you think Bioware would say things that seemed to suggest otherwise, to throw us off? Its not like they'd come out and say 'Yup, you figured out the big twist, now it wont be a surprise when we do it. Good for you'

Modifié par byne, 26 mars 2012 - 08:16 .

[greywardencommander]

byne wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

augustburnt wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

augustburnt wrote...

People are getting desperate arent they...

Honestly i dont think IT is true, but there is huge ammount of circunstantial evidence that this could be real. So there is no point in comming here if all you can do is make comments like this. 

It would be better if you just tell them why you think its wrong...

I used to believe in the IT, but recent things said by Bioware have convinced me its just **** writing.

I agree, but that is the only reason i dismiss IT, the ingame evidence is there...

Honestly, if it was intended all along, dont you think Bioware would say things that seemed to suggest otherwise, to throw us off? Its not like they'd come out and say 'Yup, you figured out the big twist, now it wont be a surprise when we do it. Good for you'

If they made something brilliant out of it, would it really matter in the end? Everyone's happy.

[IronSabbath88]

I honestly don't see how the argument of BioWare being lazy writers has any merit.

We're talking about a company who put all these little subtle odes to the community (Joker's Prothy comment, Jack mentioning how Shepard can't dance) and had so many LITTLE things that made certain moments great. (Wrex mentioning about how he killed his father, right over there) HOW can someone possibly say that BioWare is bad writers? I just don't see it. For me personally it's the WORST argument you can make in denial of this theory. There are some pretty valid counter arguments, I'll say that. Don't get me wrong.

But by far the worst of the bunch is that BioWare are just lazy, crap writers. No, not a chance. Not with all the things that we saw throughout the entire game, you mean to tell me they just gave up in the last 10 minutes? If you were a writer, trying to make the ultimate surprise at the end, would you..

A. Give subtle hints, not obvious ones but ones that make you think that maybe, just maybe something else is going on. (Like we have here)

Or

B. Be totally obvious about it, yeah, the kid is fake, this dream sequence is fake, don't listen to the kid, we're telling you this flat out.

.... That takes away the entire point of that sequence! If BioWare flat out TOLD you or informed you of what was going on in the game context, then obviously you would pick Destroy, there would be no thinking about it. THAT is what was meant by speculation. It backfired. Plain and simple.

[N7xELITE]

Main points for new ending DLC
= A ending that makes sense
=To be able to carry on after its complete
= To carry on a love interest
That is just 3 main points it needs.

[greywardencommander]

Henioo wrote...

1. Destruction ending: Clear - you decide against the reapers. You make the hard choice to destroy all synthetics to get rid of the reapers as you deem their threat too great.

On th eother hand... you kind of do what the reapers would do. You kill certain species (AI) in order for the other (organics) to live.

why trust the guy he says he LEADS your enemy. I sure as hell wouldn't believe him. If someone came out and said Lord Voldermort was imperiused (indoctrinated) and I control him...why the hell would you believe anything he says YOU WAKE UP after all synthetic life is destroyed YOU'RE PART SYNTHETIC LIFE! That is the point, the clue. The reapers are getting you to veer away either to control so you're indoctrinated like TIM or synthesis, indoctrinated like Saren they DON'T WANT you to destroy because it breaks their hold over you (i.e. you wake up free from all their influence over the game because you realise you were controlled, just like Saren, just like TIM).

[Hunter_Wolf]

tobito113 wrote...

augustburnt wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

augustburnt wrote...

People are getting desperate arent they...

Honestly i dont think IT is true, but there is huge ammount of circunstantial evidence that this could be real. So there is no point in comming here if all you can do is make comments like this. 

It would be better if you just tell them why you think its wrong...

I used to believe in the IT, but recent things said by Bioware have convinced me its just **** writing.

I agree, but that is the only reason i dismiss IT, the ingame evidence is there...

You assume a developer will spill the beans, nobody in the industry does that. Nobody.

[spz123]

If everything that seems to be pointing towards indoctrination is "lazy writing/game design" as those who are adamant on debunking IT are prone to say, then the sheer amount of this would mean Bioware are not merely "lazy" but also incompetent.

That COULD be the case but in my mind the IT or some form of it seems more likely.

April should give us some solid information.

[Vox Draco]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

In a week or so, this thread will either be triumphant in victory or accepting in defeat.

The point is, there will be people who will try to laugh at us and say I told you so and judging from the people here, I don't think we'll be the same way if this turns out to be true.

I personally don't care that much about the outcome. If the I.T. is real, than (almost) the entire fanbase will praise Bioware for it and throw away their pitchforks and torches. At least I will, even if such an End-DLC would not be free.

But if the simply stick to the curren end? With some textbox or additional dialogue or cutscenes? Then I'll still stick with the I.T. for my personal ending of this epic journey, and my Shep will finish the fight against the Reapers as it should be, guns blazing and without space magic,  in my own fantasy...

[greywardencommander]

N7xELITE wrote...

Main points for new ending DLC
= A ending that makes sense
=To be able to carry on after its complete
= To carry on a love interest
That is just 3 main points it needs.

IDT gives you all that

[palacios]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I honestly don't see how the argument of BioWare being lazy writers has any merit.

We're talking about a company who put all these little subtle odes to the community (Joker's Prothy comment, Jack mentioning how Shepard can't dance) and had so many LITTLE things that made certain moments great. (Wrex mentioning about how he killed his father, right over there) HOW can someone possibly say that BioWare is bad writers? I just don't see it. For me personally it's the WORST argument you can make in denial of this theory. There are some pretty valid counter arguments, I'll say that. Don't get me wrong.

But by far the worst of the bunch is that BioWare are just lazy, crap writers. No, not a chance. Not with all the things that we saw throughout the entire game, you mean to tell me they just gave up in the last 10 minutes? If you were a writer, trying to make the ultimate surprise at the end, would you..

A. Give subtle hints, not obvious ones but ones that make you think that maybe, just maybe something else is going on. (Like we have here)

Or

B. Be totally obvious about it, yeah, the kid is fake, this dream sequence is fake, don't listen to the kid, we're telling you this flat out.

.... That takes away the entire point of that sequence! If BioWare flat out TOLD you or informed you of what was going on in the game context, then obviously you would pick Destroy, there would be no thinking about it. THAT is what was meant by speculation. It backfired. Plain and simple.

I agreeeeeeeee

BioWare is too good to let it slip just because they were lazy. They have lots of things planned for the ME universe, so I'm imagining that they're going all out on this ending since its the end of the beginning of the ME universe.

If anything they ran out of time and so decided to split it in two and end at point of suspense on the first part. 

[Kanon777]

KillTheWiseOne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

The fact that the textures of the planet at the very ending have "dream" in their names combined with masseffect's tweet that this scene should probably be handled with caution makes me pretty certain that there's at least SOME kind of dream/indoc included.

Wait, I'm new to this whole thing, is this true, because that is clearly the best indication right there.

What tweet about scene being handled with caution? Because that scene had big plot holes in it, there is no way that scenes was handled with caution

Modifié par tobito113, 26 mars 2012 - 08:27 .

[greywardencommander]

spz123 wrote...

If everything that seems to be pointing towards indoctrination is "lazy writing/game design" as those who are adamant on debunking IT are prone to say, then the sheer amount of this would mean Bioware are not merely "lazy" but also incompetent.

That COULD be the case but in my mind the IT or some form of it seems more likely.

April should give us some solid information.

Exactly it's been said before someone in that team likes psychology (Casey maybe) and the psychological aspect of the end and indoctrination and it going from Shepard onto the player once it dawns (again see my thread in the signature about the pure instinct and psychological side that should suggest it's not true)

...too good an opportunity to miss and I refuse to believe until told otherwise that Bioware were incompetent to the point of criminality with this series otherwise

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Some stuff I've seen seems to be proof positive , while other evidence really does seem like grasping at straws and trying to force it into indoctrination.

Did anyone find out if the dream shadows , were in fact warning Shepard to stay away/not trust the child ?

[Chaosbrain]

N7xELITE wrote...

Main points for new ending DLC
= A ending that makes sense
=To be able to carry on after its complete
= To carry on a love interest
That is just 3 main points it needs.

True... I want to see those blue babies Liara and I were talking about
Also if IT is correct it would be the most epic and thrilling game experience ever made... I NEVER saw that much people think and discuss about a game than I saw here...
p.s. sorry for possible grammar mistakes, holding the line in Austria

[greywardencommander]

tobito113 wrote...

KillTheWiseOne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

The fact that the textures of the planet at the very ending have "dream" in their names combined with masseffect's tweet that this scene should probably be handled with caution makes me pretty certain that there's at least SOME kind of dream/indoc included.

Wait, I'm new to this whole thing, is this true, because that is clearly the best indication right there.

What tweet about scene being handled with caution?

no file names such as the last sequence being under game mechanics called dream, the textures to do with the dreams you have in game matching those in the final scenes, the final scenes being based on Shepard's memories thus it is a dream (that's the reasoning)

the tweets 'are you sure that happened, not just a plot hole' (essentially what it says i''ve paraphrased) regarding stuff about teleporting and 'that wound, you sure it's not a dev's fault' etc etc

[Stigweird85]

I have been playing through the game again, and stumbled across this little fact about choices.

In order to save the Geth and the Quarians requires a ME2 save where both Tali and Legion survive but also you keep the heretics during Legions loyalty mission in Mass Effect 2. You can do it without this criteria but it more difficult(requires hire reputation)

Could it be that people are complaining their choices didn't mean anything as they haven't played the other side of the coin as it were? I know I didn't realise the difference my choices had made until I started again

[greywardencommander]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Some stuff I've seen seems to be proof positive , while other evidence really does seem like grasping at straws and trying to force it into indoctrination.

Did anyone find out if the dream shadows , were in fact warning Shepard to stay away/not trust the child ?

You're missing the point EVERYTHING prior to the last sequence can be interpreted either way, that's the point. Confirmation bias you're not supposed to notice it because if you (i.e. Shepard) notice it you can't be indoctrinated.

[greywardencommander]

bigstig wrote...

I have been playing through the game again, and stumbled across this little fact about choices.

In order to save the Geth and the Quarians requires a ME2 save where both Tali and Legion survive but also you keep the heretics during Legions loyalty mission in Mass Effect 2. You can do it without this criteria but it more difficult(requires hire reputation)

Could it be that people are complaining their choices didn't mean anything as they haven't played the other side of the coin as it were? I know I didn't realise the difference my choices had made until I started again

If IDT is based on the idea all three choices matter in the end then yes IDT is a way to make EVERY decision matter.