57139 réponses à ce sujet

[BloodClaw95]

Lasiewicz wrote...

Abram730 wrote...

CannotCompute wrote...

Guys, is it just me or do we hear that growling noise again in the final scene where we see Shepard lying in the rubble? (4:30 - 4:40 of this video)

Sounds almost the same as the noise we hear as soon as Shep 'snaps out of it" during the 'boy in the ducts scene' from the intro level.

Thoughts?

I don't think so.

boy in the ducts sound 
www.youtube.com/watch

The reaper sounds are made from a bear proof garbage can.. same sound.

It's very similar though. At first it does sound like a growl, but nothing else is moving around.

If I recall correctly, the 'growl' is supposed to occur when a Reaper fails to control a person. When Anderson called Shepard, he snapped out of it and the Reaper lost hold on his mind. Then you hear the growl. When Shepard awakes in London, you hear the growl, possibly showing had a Reaper controlling his mind, creating false dreams for him.

[schneeland]

BloodClaw95 wrote...

The only thing that I think doesn't support this is Vendetta not sensing indoctrination in you, but sensing it when Kai Leng comes into the room.

Well, another piece of circumstantial evidence that is currently not well explained by IT is the fact that you get only destroy when you have a low EMS (however, somebody reported that when you did not destroy the collector base, it is only control).

I am still inclined to believe IT, however, because it does a much better job in explaining things than every other thing I have read here in the forums. Plus, it would work well with economic motives of selling DLC.

[baruaru]

And most people doesnt know, but a roar of Reaper is a way to indocrinate aswell. Meaning that when shepard fighted the reaper itself on the rannoch, tuchanka and final scene, she/he were even more vulnerable (Including the sovereign aswell, when it taked place on ME1).

[schneeland]

greywardencommander wrote...

Everyone ignore circumstantial evidence from prior to the ending sequence and read my signature thread (I'm told it's enjoyable) on the psychology of the endings alone (I.e as they are presented) and why it points to a hallucination/indoctrination/something not being right
I discuss the psychology of interpretation, confirmation bias, the colour switch, the way the dialogue is presented, the obvious fact he controls your enemy why trust.a single thing he says (proven by breath in destroy)
The psychology of it in terms of real life times re. It won't harm their reputation if it's free in the long run, short term loss, long term gain, PR and double speak. Most importantly (at the end of what's quite long) how it could work (IDT) regardless of intent in the 'real endings'if you don't like long posts ignore the rest and read idea of future (free) dlc on IDT (clearly earmarked in bold and italics near the bottom)

I will read this in detail now. And then I will go to sleep (it's actually half past 3 a.m. here). I do that far too little in the last days (damn game series making me care ...)

[baruaru]

BloodClaw95 wrote...

Lasiewicz wrote...

Abram730 wrote...

CannotCompute wrote...

Guys, is it just me or do we hear that growling noise again in the final scene where we see Shepard lying in the rubble? (4:30 - 4:40 of this video)

Sounds almost the same as the noise we hear as soon as Shep 'snaps out of it" during the 'boy in the ducts scene' from the intro level.

Thoughts?

I don't think so.

boy in the ducts sound 
www.youtube.com/watch

The reaper sounds are made from a bear proof garbage can.. same sound.

It's very similar though. At first it does sound like a growl, but nothing else is moving around.

If I recall correctly, the 'growl' is supposed to occur when a Reaper fails to control a person. When Anderson called Shepard, he snapped out of it and the Reaper lost hold on his mind. Then you hear the growl. When Shepard awakes in London, you hear the growl, possibly showing had a Reaper controlling his mind, creating false dreams for him.

The rowl thing that you said, its ahbit wrong. Instead of failing, they "grow" to make the indocrination happen.

[greywardencommander]

@Blood Craw95 still works even if it was a hallucination i.e shepard is indoctrinated thus last scene didn't happen
or the scene did happen but not as it appears and he's indoctrinated at the catalyst and the crucible the 'real endings' could be coming based on fact he's at some random lever that controls the lift thinking he's saved the world or something
(I obviously prefer battle of mind and lying on Earth more so am joking in second idea)

[Vehemyth]

Why do I get the feeling that Bioware is going to come out on April 1st and say gotcha you Indoctrinated Fools.

[greywardencommander]

schneeland wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

Everyone ignore circumstantial evidence from prior to the ending sequence and read my signature thread (I'm told it's enjoyable) on the psychology of the endings alone (I.e as they are presented) and why it points to a hallucination/indoctrination/something not being right
I discuss the psychology of interpretation, confirmation bias, the colour switch, the way the dialogue is presented, the obvious fact he controls your enemy why trust.a single thing he says (proven by breath in destroy)
The psychology of it in terms of real life times re. It won't harm their reputation if it's free in the long run, short term loss, long term gain, PR and double speak. Most importantly (at the end of what's quite long) how it could work (IDT) regardless of intent in the 'real endings'if you don't like long posts ignore the rest and read idea of future (free) dlc on IDT (clearly earmarked in bold and italics near the bottom)

I will read this in detail now. And then I will go to sleep (it's actually half past 3 a.m. here). I do that far too little in the last days (damn game series making me care ...)

Please do and I know the feeling it all started at 5am for me (that whole idea) after beating the game on 4 hours sleep and 32 hours straight of studying (social psychology), working and then gaming lol. It's been edited as we go on and I think of more.

Feel free to comment even if it's 'I don't think it's deliberate but man I love your idea for how it could work in the fixed endings'
if you read the comments there's also someone saying 'indoctrination can't be beaten' (only one person who trolled and never came back I think I won) and I reply saying that's not true in ME or in real life indoctrination thus that idea as a problem with the theory is not true as there are stages in the process.

[Rafe34]

BloodClaw95 wrote...

The only thing that I think doesn't support this is Vendetta not sensing indoctrination in you, but sensing it when Kai Leng comes into the room.

This has been explained.

Obviously, the Prothean VI cannot detect the first stags of Indoctrination, because the Protheans eventually fell due to agents in their own midst. He detects Kai Leng's because he's already completely indoctrinated. Shepard isn't.

[Rafe34]

schneeland wrote...

BloodClaw95 wrote...

The only thing that I think doesn't support this is Vendetta not sensing indoctrination in you, but sensing it when Kai Leng comes into the room.

Well, another piece of circumstantial evidence that is currently not well explained by IT is the fact that you get only destroy when you have a low EMS (however, somebody reported that when you did not destroy the collector base, it is only control).

I am still inclined to believe IT, however, because it does a much better job in explaining things than every other thing I have read here in the forums. Plus, it would work well with economic motives of selling DLC.

That's a problem, but not an insurmountable one. Shepard is already going to die and the Reapers know it. So they just give his/her mind what it wants, and lets them get back to dying. Since you don't get the breathing scene without high EMS.

It's not a perfect solution, and it is stretching it, but it's at least viable.

[Lasiewicz]

BloodClaw95 wrote...

Lasiewicz wrote...

Abram730 wrote...

CannotCompute wrote...

Guys, is it just me or do we hear that growling noise again in the final scene where we see Shepard lying in the rubble? (4:30 - 4:40 of this video)

Sounds almost the same as the noise we hear as soon as Shep 'snaps out of it" during the 'boy in the ducts scene' from the intro level.

Thoughts?

I don't think so.

boy in the ducts sound 
www.youtube.com/watch

The reaper sounds are made from a bear proof garbage can.. same sound.

It's very similar though. At first it does sound like a growl, but nothing else is moving around.

If I recall correctly, the 'growl' is supposed to occur when a Reaper fails to control a person. When Anderson called Shepard, he snapped out of it and the Reaper lost hold on his mind. Then you hear the growl. When Shepard awakes in London, you hear the growl, possibly showing had a Reaper controlling his mind, creating false dreams for him.

This

[n00bsauce2010]

schneeland wrote...

BloodClaw95 wrote...

The only thing that I think doesn't support this is Vendetta not sensing indoctrination in you, but sensing it when Kai Leng comes into the room.

Well, another piece of circumstantial evidence that is currently not well explained by IT is the fact that you get only destroy when you have a low EMS (however, somebody reported that when you did not destroy the collector base, it is only control).

I am still inclined to believe IT, however, because it does a much better job in explaining things than every other thing I have read here in the forums. Plus, it would work well with economic motives of selling DLC.

someone confirm

Modifié par n00bsauce2010, 27 mars 2012 - 01:43 .

[ContraMan]

I read a few pages ago and have read a few times now in regards to the argument about DLC and people with the lack of internet connection.

Now I'm going to try avoiding a rant or downplaying anyone who doesn't have luxury of internet service (it is a luxury, I'm not arguing nor am I trying to ****** people off) but I think one of the major drawbacks on any counter-argument regarding lack of internet connection is rather weak particularly on those who are PC players here. I have noticed a few times when my connection to the internet went on the fritz (dunno why) that it was IMPOSSIBLE to play the game because I had the "day one" DLC that came with the collector's edition tin.

If the case is that you can't even access the game because of the DLC limiting you from playing because of your internet connection, any DLC would be similar.

Please forgive me if I'm not doing something right in regards to guaranteeing the ability to play at all times regardless of connection but if the above is the case regardless of DLC it's a moot point.

[n00bsauce2010]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

schneeland wrote...

BloodClaw95 wrote...

The only thing that I think doesn't support this is Vendetta not sensing indoctrination in you, but sensing it when Kai Leng comes into the room.

Well, another piece of circumstantial evidence that is currently not well explained by IT is the fact that you get only destroy when you have a low EMS (however, somebody reported that when you did not destroy the collector base, it is only control).

I am still inclined to believe IT, however, because it does a much better job in explaining things than every other thing I have read here in the forums. Plus, it would work well with economic motives of selling DLC.

still doesn't disprove anything. It means the likliehood of reaper tech being used against you is increased. Doesn't change anything

[baruaru]

Just repeat the post that i said... (Sorry)


And most people doesnt know, but a roar of Reaper is a way to indocrinate aswell. Meaning that when shepard fighted the reaper itself on the rannoch, tuchanka and final scene, she/he were even more vulnerable (Including the sovereign aswell, when it taked place on ME1).


So, No, they doesnt Howl when they fail on it.

[Rksmithers]

what will happen if we turn out to be wrong........

[BloodClaw95]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

schneeland wrote...

BloodClaw95 wrote...

The only thing that I think doesn't support this is Vendetta not sensing indoctrination in you, but sensing it when Kai Leng comes into the room.

Well, another piece of circumstantial evidence that is currently not well explained by IT is the fact that you get only destroy when you have a low EMS (however, somebody reported that when you did not destroy the collector base, it is only control).

I am still inclined to believe IT, however, because it does a much better job in explaining things than every other thing I have read here in the forums. Plus, it would work well with economic motives of selling DLC.

false. I imported a save where i saved the collector base... i still had all 3 options available. nice try though.

If you import an ME2 save, and destroyed the collector base, with low EMS, you can only destroy. If you saved the collector base, with low EMS, you can only control.

If you have high EMS, you can pick any of the three, regardless if you destroyed or saved the collector base.

[n00bsauce2010]

BloodClaw95 wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

schneeland wrote...

BloodClaw95 wrote...

The only thing that I think doesn't support this is Vendetta not sensing indoctrination in you, but sensing it when Kai Leng comes into the room.

Well, another piece of circumstantial evidence that is currently not well explained by IT is the fact that you get only destroy when you have a low EMS (however, somebody reported that when you did not destroy the collector base, it is only control).

I am still inclined to believe IT, however, because it does a much better job in explaining things than every other thing I have read here in the forums. Plus, it would work well with economic motives of selling DLC.

false. I imported a save where i saved the collector base... i still had all 3 options available. nice try though.

If you import an ME2 save, and destroyed the collector base, with low EMS, you can only destroy. If you saved the collector base, with low EMS, you can only control.

If you have high EMS, you can pick any of the three, regardless if you destroyed or saved the collector base.

i like to ask myself this question. But why woudl anyone go into the ending with the lowest possible ems? It's called lazy playing in my opinion. It means you skipped the bulk of the side missions...and missed out on a lot of good character interactions and cameos.

[n00bsauce2010]

Anyone new to the thread. I think its page 895-896. There is a picture of Zorya- Jungle like planet with moons the same proportion as those in the final normandy sequence in ME3 ending. Also.. someone pointed out that the relay magic signal starts in the viper nebula, thus meaning it started in the alpha relay.. which was destroyed.

[Arian Dynas]

edogalax wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

bigstig wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

bigstig wrote...

surleygentelman wrote...

...

...

Correct me if I am wrong but, isn't the main character "Shepard"? That is also a reference to Jesus, I tihnk many of us thoguht his fate was to sacrifice himself from the very start.

The game is full of bits from Christian religion... Lazarus, Cerberus, Omega, Purgatory, Legion, Archangel.. etc..

Yes, there are a lots of reference to Christian religion

 

Uh no.

One, Lazarus, I will give you, but for the most part Lazarus is used as a stock phrase for resurrection, Cerberus is GREEK mythology, not Christian in the slightest. Omega is a GREEK letter, referencing the end, the Christians used that already established connection too. Purgatory is simply used these days as a catch all term for a place which is not exactly punishment, but not paradise either, which the prison ship being basically one big solitary confinement room applied to, Legion is a reference to many forming one, a concept Bioware has used before, and admittedly owes it's source to Christianity, but once again, is usually used in the more modern terminology of one from many. Archangel is referring to his guardian angel traits and the fact that he is an unflinching idealist.

And Shepard himself? Not even remotely related to "Shepherd". It is in fact a reference to the astronaut that everyone forgets, one Alan SHEPARD, whom was the first American in space, he experienced a 15 minute flight in the upper armosphere, before waterlanding and being grounded for years afterward due to an inner ear problem.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 27 mars 2012 - 01:50 .

[Lancane]

I believe that the proof needed to support the Indoctrination Theory can be found in Mass Effect: Infiltrator. From Mass Effect Wiki - Randall Ezno, the game's protagonist begins the game hunting down a turian for Cerberus. During this mission it is revealed that he has been extensively modified with implants and that he has taken to them much faster than most Cerberus Operatives. He is not aware that the implants were supposed to have indoctrinated him (it becomes clear as events transpire that they have failed).

According to this, Shepard should have been indoctrinated as well, but he or she was to strong willed. Now, if you take that during the events of Mass Effect 3 that Shepard was exhausted a good portion of the time and during his or her sleeping periods there were dreams that in a way showed the futility of saving the boy against the Reapers, no matter what direction you took. I believe the indoctrination took hold during these periods or when Shepard has been injured or sick. Once he's been hit with the laser before he or she are on the Citadel, I believe we could be seeing an internal battle within Shepard him or herself with the indoctrination.

Here is a quote from Mass Effect Wiki - Randall wears Cerberus armor and bears the markings of Cerberus implants on his face not unlike those of Commander Shepard following the Lazarus Project, albeit blue instead of red.

Modifié par Lancane, 27 mars 2012 - 01:52 .

[BloodClaw95]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

BloodClaw95 wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

schneeland wrote...

BloodClaw95 wrote...

The only thing that I think doesn't support this is Vendetta not sensing indoctrination in you, but sensing it when Kai Leng comes into the room.

Well, another piece of circumstantial evidence that is currently not well explained by IT is the fact that you get only destroy when you have a low EMS (however, somebody reported that when you did not destroy the collector base, it is only control).

I am still inclined to believe IT, however, because it does a much better job in explaining things than every other thing I have read here in the forums. Plus, it would work well with economic motives of selling DLC.

false. I imported a save where i saved the collector base... i still had all 3 options available. nice try though.

If you import an ME2 save, and destroyed the collector base, with low EMS, you can only destroy. If you saved the collector base, with low EMS, you can only control.

If you have high EMS, you can pick any of the three, regardless if you destroyed or saved the collector base.

i like to ask myself this question. But why woudl anyone go into the ending with the lowest possible ems? It's called lazy playing in my opinion. It means you skipped the bulk of the side missions...and missed out on a lot of good character interactions and cameos.

I guess if you didn't bother building up the fleet enough, you get no choice in the ending.
That, or you made bad choices, freed the fake rachni queen, for example.

[MrRoussis]

A thought brought about by the sound effects used for indoctrination and the child in Shep's nightmares.

The sound heard after Anderson interrupts Shep from talking with the child must mean a failed attempt for the reasons stated previously. To add to that, we can consider what the child actually says to him. Something along the lines of "You can't save me or you can't save us"... suggesting that this truly is the reapers exercising some control over Shep, planting the seed of doubt in his head. Indeed, this is the only game in the trilogy to offer the player the ability to admit a level of anxiety going into the battle.. whereas we have always known Shep to be very sure of himself and the cause as a whole and really.. the ability to defeat the reapers. Sure you can choose to ignore those lines of dialogue but the fact that they are there suggests that every Shep is thinking about them (otherwise why the nightmares?), regardless if the player wants their Shep to deal with it.

The fact that the child is no longer there when Shep turns back is also a little shocking... that's one fast kid to duck out of the air duct in the time that Shep turns his head. This further supports the former points made.

[n00bsauce2010]

[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...

[quote]edogalax wrote...

[quote]MadRabbit999 wrote...

[quote]bigstig wrote...

[quote]MadRabbit999 wrote...

[quote]bigstig wrote...

[quote]surleygentelman wrote...

...

[/quote]

...
[/quote]

Correct me if I am wrong but, isn't the main character "Shepard"? That is also a reference to Jesus, I tihnk many of us thoguht his fate was to sacrifice himself from the very start.

The game is full of bits from Christian religion... Lazarus, Cerberus, Omega, Purgatory, Legion, Archangel.. etc..

[/quote]

Yes, there are a lots of reference to Christian religion

[/quote] 

Uh no.

One, Lazarus, I will give you, but for the most part Lazarus is used as a stock phrase for resurrection, Cerberus is GREEK mythology, not Christian in the slightest. Omega is a GREEK letter, referencing the end, the Christians used that already established connection too. Purgatory is simply used these days as a catch all term for a place which is not exactly punishment, but not paradise either, which the prison ship being basically one big solitary confinement room applied to, Legion is a reference to many forming one, a concept Bioware has used before, and admittedly owes it's source to Christianity, but once again, is usually used in the more modern terminology of one from many. Archangel is referring to his guardian angel traits and the fact that he is an unflinching idealist.

And Shepard himself? Not even remotely related to "Shepherd". It is in fact a reference to the astronaut that everyone forgets, one Alan SHEPARD, whom was the first American in space, he experienced a 15 minute flight in the upper armosphere, before waterlanding and being grounded for years afterward due to an inner ear problem.

[/quote]

I don't think its referencing Alan Shepard. Its talking about this

shep·herd  (shprd)n. One who herds, guards, and tends sheep.

Which does nothing to say he would sacrifice himself. It's a reference to his purpose.. to unite the galaxy against the reapers.

[BloodClaw95]

MrRoussis wrote...

A thought brought about by the sound effects used for indoctrination and the child in Shep's nightmares.

The sound heard after Anderson interrupts Shep from talking with the child must mean a failed attempt for the reasons stated previously. To add to that, we can consider what the child actually says to him. Something along the lines of "You can't save me or you can't save us"... suggesting that this truly is the reapers exercising some control over Shep, planting the seed of doubt in his head. Indeed, this is the only game in the trilogy to offer the player the ability to admit a level of anxiety going into the battle.. whereas we have always known Shep to be very sure of himself and the cause as a whole and really.. the ability to defeat the reapers. Sure you can choose to ignore those lines of dialogue but the fact that they are there suggests that every Shep is thinking about them (otherwise why the nightmares?), regardless if the player wants their Shep to deal with it.

The fact that the child is no longer there when Shep turns back is also a little shocking... that's one fast kid to duck out of the air duct in the time that Shep turns his head. This further supports the former points made.

Could the boy be a creation of Harbinger? Used to manpuliate Shepard? Makes sense since the GodChild looks exactly like him and says things I would expect Harbinger to say.