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[Erethrian]

greywardencommander wrote...

Dance Craze wrote...

Then if you destroy the reapers and break indoctrination... How and why would harbinger show you this happy stargazer stuff?

Edit: Or for that matter show you that your crew has escaped and that you have made the right choice? No sense.

it's a play on his mind by Harbinger (or is actually Shepard's imagination) the 'hope' that no matter what happens the galaxy is saved and his friends survive

Edit

@Dance Craze, I think that the first one(Normandy scene) is hallucination/hope inside Shepard's mind -indeed he wants to know/imagine that his/her friends are ok-, but not the second(Stargazer scene). Take a look at my post above, the stargazer scene could perfectly be real.

I missed his/her edit. But, anyway ;P

Modifié par Erethrian, 27 mars 2012 - 04:34 .

[Tr0n01d]

Gernbuster wrote...

PLS READ

this is the best article I read so far, a statment made an author, about the bad ending and some conclusions about IDT.
I love this article ^^

http://jmstevenson.w...-3/#comment-250

That only proves one thing, if things are let as they are Bioware would have succesfully achieved a scholar example of what you must ABSOLUTELY NOT DO when ending a story.

they will be remebered, but not for the good reasons

Modifié par Tr0n01d, 27 mars 2012 - 04:54 .

[nyrocron]

Basically the same thing they told us for a while now, but at least they seem to be confident that they will provide us with something that fixes our concerns. http://imgur.com/nrRFf

Modifié par nyrocron, 27 mars 2012 - 04:39 .

[IronSabbath88]

Every day there's a new thread either calling this theory flat out retarded or just trying desperately to disprove it. EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

I swear to god these people need to get their priorities straight. We all want the same thing in the end.

[nyrocron]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Every day there's a new thread either calling this theory flat out retarded or just trying desperately to disprove it. EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

I swear to god these people need to get their priorities straight. We all want the same thing in the end.

I don't even see real arguments there, just people who want to hate BioWare.

[greywardencommander]

I mean both because both are mentioned. the 'one more story' idea is the fact that he is the narrator (framed narrative, stories within stories within stories etc) the idea of unreliable narrator (such as Varric in DA2) plays on the fact that plotholes and inconsistencies are because of not being there and it's based on legend (for the endings now too).
So how does he know (ignore IDT/hallucination) what happened at all.

The final scene COULD be a fabrication based on the legend of him overcoming the greatest Reaper weapon, indoctrination. Shepard can't know he's indoctrinated until that very last point when it all becomes apparent (this can be true for the gamer too) that something's not right. Thus neither the player nor the stargazer would know about anything prior to the endings being hints at indoctrination, that's the point. Shepard is our vessel in the ME universe, if he doesn't notice it we don't notice it (not literally but in terms of drawing attention to it) so we pass it off at the time (as Shepard would) that it's nothing, or referencing something else (e.g. the war against the Reapers, a nothing comment). That's why IDT (if true is important) it's the confirmation bias, you don't realise how good a plot twist is and how important it is until you go and look at all three games and see all the hints foreshadowing what happens (and in ME3 or even ME2 to an extent such as Arrival) or directly related to your own indoctrination.

[Esoretal]

Turbotanden wrote...

Pascal219 wrote...

wow, just finished another playthrough. A worst case scenario one, where most of my me2 squadmates died. Needless to say my ems was quite screwed!

In any case starchild sounds quite pissed when I met him! "Why are you here?"

Any reason for why he says this instead of the normal "Wake up"?

With very low EMS they don't actually have any need for indoctrinating you, so the child is surprised and annoyed that you are there. Your only choice is "destroy", and you ain't gonna wake up.

A lot of people seem to be missing the fact that at a low EMS, your only option is not ALWAYS "destroy." People with a low EMS who save the Collector Base at the end of ME2 rather than destroying it get the "control" option as their only option instead. Make of that what you will.

[Kyzee]

nyrocron wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Every day there's a new thread either calling this theory flat out retarded or just trying desperately to disprove it. EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

I swear to god these people need to get their priorities straight. We all want the same thing in the end.

I don't even see real arguments there, just people who want to hate BioWare.

Yeah, I think some folks have sadly just gotten entrenched in their anger at this point and aren't willing to look at things differently. I don't mean this is a superior, "Oh, if only those poor litttle people could just see the Holy Truth That Is Indocrination Theory." I mean that emotions can get the better of you and prevent you from taking off the blinders for a second. 

Plus, some people just love to be angry. 

[waldstr18]

what is the highes ems one can get? i have 7111, and im about to go to earth now.

i have googled around but everyone says something different, so i thought again, i come to my indoctrination friends.

[SonRyu]

if its not free, fixing their mess up, i'm not buying it. period. they rushed a game with an incomplete ending and having to pay for the 'real endingø when i already bought the game. no. just no

[nyrocron]

 @Esoretal: I like your signature 

"Take it as a reminder, Commander. In the darkest hour, there is always a way out." - Eve

Which situation other than the indoctrination attempt would that quote fit more?

[magica87]

Hi! anything new? or upgrade all in April?
in the meantime holding the line!

[nyrocron]

SonRyu wrote...

if its not free, fixing their mess up, i'm not buying it. period. they rushed a game with an incomplete ending and having to pay for the 'real endingø when i already bought the game. no. just no

Why are you here? What do you want to tell us? Where are your arguments?

[Erethrian]

greywardencommander wrote...

I mean both because both are mentioned. the 'one more story' idea is the fact that he is the narrator (framed narrative, stories within stories within stories etc) the idea of unreliable narrator (such as Varric in DA2) plays on the fact that plotholes and inconsistencies are because of not being there and it's based on legend (for the endings now too).
So how does he know (ignore IDT/hallucination) what happened at all.

The final scene COULD be a fabrication based on the legend of him overcoming the greatest Reaper weapon, indoctrination. Shepard can't know he's indoctrinated until that very last point when it all becomes apparent (this can be true for the gamer too) that something's not right. Thus neither the player nor the stargazer would know about anything prior to the endings being hints at indoctrination, that's the point. Shepard is our vessel in the ME universe, if he doesn't notice it we don't notice it (not literally but in terms of drawing attention to it) so we pass it off at the time (as Shepard would) that it's nothing, or referencing something else (e.g. the war against the Reapers, a nothing comment). That's why IDT (if true is important) it's the confirmation bias, you don't realise how good a plot twist is and how important it is until you go and look at all three games and see all the hints foreshadowing what happens (and in ME3 or even ME2 to an extent such as Arrival) or directly related to your own indoctrination.

I see your point. Well, I guess I just imagined that the "narrator" wasn't telling the exact story we played. I mean, "he" never states what happened, he just tells it happened, "but some of the details have been lost in time".

So, maybe he told the child how "The Shepard" won against the reapers (or not), but he could be not telling the exact story we saw "in-game". We saw the real story, "he" told a story. It's not the same thing, so maybe they're real and BW is showing us a scene from 10,000 years ahead, or maybe they're in Shepard's imagination. The thing is, in this case, one way or another can't go against IDT.

[n00bsauce2010]

The ending dlc is gonna be free. I don't know why people seem to keep saying "we'll have to pay for it" there is no way in hell bioware/ea would make us pay for it. Its ludicrous

[K2daE]

waldstr18 wrote...

what is the highes ems one can get? i have 7111, and im about to go to earth now.

i have googled around but everyone says something different, so i thought again, i come to my indoctrination friends.

I think it is 7150. But Im not positive. Also It can only hit that level with MP which makes that sticky on the general board wrong.

[IronSabbath88]

K2daE wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

what is the highes ems one can get? i have 7111, and im about to go to earth now.

i have googled around but everyone says something different, so i thought again, i come to my indoctrination friends.

I think it is 7150. But Im not positive. Also It can only hit that level with MP which makes that sticky on the general board wrong.

I'm almost positive I had over 7200.

[K2daE]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

K2daE wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

what is the highes ems one can get? i have 7111, and im about to go to earth now.

i have googled around but everyone says something different, so i thought again, i come to my indoctrination friends.

I think it is 7150. But Im not positive. Also It can only hit that level with MP which makes that sticky on the general board wrong.

I'm almost positive I had over 7200.

You are probably right. I have a feeling I saw 7150 somewhere, but it could well of been my EMS!

[Dendio1]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

The ending dlc is gonna be free. I don't know why people seem to keep saying "we'll have to pay for it" there is no way in hell bioware/ea would make us pay for it. Its ludicrous

I could see them charging. It adds to the game the same way anyother dlc would. The only difference between Me3 dlc and Me2 dlc is that the main plot is still unfinished. Both increase the length of the game. I would rather pay for really good ending dlc than get free comparitively bad dlc

[n00bsauce2010]

Dendio1 wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

The ending dlc is gonna be free. I don't know why people seem to keep saying "we'll have to pay for it" there is no way in hell bioware/ea would make us pay for it. Its ludicrous

I could see them charging. It adds to the game the same way anyother dlc would. The only difference between Me3 dlc and Me2 dlc is that the main plot is still unfinished. Both increase the length of the game. I would rather pay for really good ending dlc than get free comparitively bad dlc

we'll just have to wait and see

[IndustrializedTaco]

I think the ID theory makes sense in fact it's in my banner . The thing that gets me is why end a trilogy on that? I mean lots of speculation can be a good thing, but not in the ending of a major trilogy. That is the question that plagues me unfortunately.

[El-Kelebrin]

Sorry guys, but maybe you could check this thread and tell me what you think. I would be honoured.

http://social.biowar.../index/10694149

[n00bsauce2010]

beetlebailey123 wrote...

I think the ID theory makes sense in fact it's in my banner . The thing that gets me is why end a trilogy on that? I mean lots of speculation can be a good thing, but not in the ending of a major trilogy. That is the question that plagues me unfortunately.

We don't even know if sales of the game have been affected by this. The only people that are claiming that they are the ones that are outraged by it.. going in and trading in their games. There is no evidence to support it. We don't know if this publicity will increase/decrease sales. Also ME3 hasn't been price cut yet.. so if "sales dropped" as low as people seem to me claiming they will.. we'd have seen a price cut by now. Also we don't even know how big the group of people b*tching about the ending is. Yes there is a problem and people are upset. But how many out of the supposed 3.5 million people that bought the game are upset? I seriously doubt 90% of them are. That would mean over 3 million people are upset..? nope... wrong.

[nyrocron]

beetlebailey123 wrote...

I think the ID theory makes sense in fact it's in my banner . The thing that gets me is why end a trilogy on that? I mean lots of speculation can be a good thing, but not in the ending of a major trilogy. That is the question that plagues me unfortunately.

Actually I can't think of an other way to deal with indoctrination.
If it would be done in one of the earlier games and we could be sure that the story of Shepard continues there would be speculation but way less than there is now. If it would be done mid-game, players would have to be told explicitly what is happening and would just reload if they did something wrong.

In my opinion IF they want Shepard to deal with indoctrination, the way they did is the best - if not only - way to do it in an appropriate way.

Modifié par nyrocron, 27 mars 2012 - 05:23 .

[Cucobr]

 

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