57139 réponses à ce sujet

[greywardencommander]

FedericoV wrote...

Honestly, I do not believe that the indoctrination theory is true. I mean, ME series never used unreliable narrators and anytime the devs wanted to say us something it was plain and easy to catch. I mean, the indoctrination theory is too smart for what we have seen so far in the series and the whole space magic/normandy sequence does not fit the idea of a mental vision a lot.

Having said all of that, I hope that the devs will use the opportunity you gave them to rewrite the endings.

that's the point, we all don't like the 'current endings' and regardless of whether it was intended we're handing them a golden platter to 'fix' and 'clarify' the endings we all wanted.

[Dwailing]

FedericoV wrote...

Honestly, I do not believe that the indoctrination theory is true. I mean, ME series never used unreliable narrators and anytime the devs wanted to say us something it was plain and easy to catch. I mean, the indoctrination theory is too smart for what we have seen so far in the series and the whole space magic/normandy sequence does not fit the idea of a mental vision a lot.

Having said all of that, I hope that the devs will use the opportunity you gave them to rewrite the endings.

Wait, how does:wizard::wizard: not fit into a mental vision?

[MasterDracoStoc]

baraura said (trying not to copy the massive amount of text): "... and I must recall that they are artificially created, not a so-natural-one." I agree, the Reapers are unnatural and must have been created. What I'm saying is that so long as life exist nature will take care of the rest. The reapers never need to worry about the cycle coming to an end so long as they are alive since they merely manipulate a natural cycle. My argument is solely against the idea that there is a group controlling evolution to ensure the cycle, since there is no need for the group to force a natural cycle.

[n00bsauce2010]

FedericoV wrote...

Honestly, I do not believe that the indoctrination theory is true. I mean, ME series never used unreliable narrators and anytime the devs wanted to say us something it was plain and easy to catch. I mean, the indoctrination theory is too smart for what we have seen so far in the series and the whole space magic/normandy sequence does not fit a lot with the idea of a psychological/mental struggle.

Having said all of that, you really did a great work and I hope that the devs will use the opportunity you gave them to rewrite the endings.

But we know bioware is capable of it. They've done plot twists before. How is it too smart? Crafting the universe we see means they're smart. All of the dialogue, the differences in the dialogue between playthroughs, and dialogue you can miss out on due to decisions means they're more than capable.

Having said that and having said it many times. The only thing I can say is that your mind won't be changed unless bioware gave definititive proof and proof that they planned it from the start. And after that if you don't believe it.. you're in denial.

[waldstr18]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I challenge the naysayers to come up with a better explanation to the ending.

And no, "BioWare are teh poop writers, lulz" does not count.

heres the explanation  for it. They're mentally retarded, stubborn, and in a stage of denial that can't be changed.
Bioware could give us proof it was their plan and they'll simply say 'Ending still isn't in the game, coincidence, crappy writers, I'm a loser who probably didn't play the other two games, And I also hate plot twists because i'm not smart enough to see the hints for them coming"

IT isn't a theory. It is simply real.

you are quite offensive, my young friend, who has numbers in his name.

and something i learned in school once: you should never state theories as real if you cant actually proof them. all you do is collecting facts from a story, someone else thought up. to proof it you would have to know the intentions of the ones who made the game. well, i doubt you do. but i can tell you one thing im pretty sure about, one of these intentions im talking about is surely to make money. and from a business point of view, well, its not very smart to make unfinished products, which can only be appreciated by the highly intelligent, like you for example, cause as you might have noticed, there arent that many super smart people on the planet. so if the stupid losers dont buy the product, you will make considerably less money in the end. now comes the problem of the break even point (also visisted economics school, sorry). which means, if you dont sell enough of your products, you not only wont make that much money, you actually gonna lose it, and then you cant afford making new prodcuts, which then leads to you making no money at all. and since production costs for a tripple a game are in the millions, you should really make your game simple enough to be appreciated by as many people as possible. or so i have heard...

[Dwailing]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

Honestly, I do not believe that the indoctrination theory is true. I mean, ME series never used unreliable narrators and anytime the devs wanted to say us something it was plain and easy to catch. I mean, the indoctrination theory is too smart for what we have seen so far in the series and the whole space magic/normandy sequence does not fit a lot with the idea of a psychological/mental struggle.

Having said all of that, you really did a great work and I hope that the devs will use the opportunity you gave them to rewrite the endings.

But we know bioware is capable of it. They've done plot twists before. How is it too smart? Crafting the universe we see means they're smart. All of the dialogue, the differences in the dialogue between playthroughs, and dialogue you can miss out on due to decisions means they're more than capable.

Having said that and having said it many times. The only thing I can say is that your mind won't be changed unless bioware gave definititive proof and proof that they planned it from the start. And after that if you don't believe it.. you're in denial.

Yeah, I considered saying something about Bioware's skills with plot twists in my response.

[BloodClaw95]

baruaru wrote...
(long quote)

Heres my theory. Many cycles ago, some race created the Catalyst. A synthetic race similar to the geth was trying to take over at the time, so the Catalyst's job was to come up with a solution. He came up with the idea of "processing" the advanced races of the galaxy so they can be safe from the synthetics. This happened, and the very first Reapers were born. They retreated to Dark Space, far away from the synthetic races, and waited. The Catalyst stayed in the Milky Way, waiting every cycle for the synthetics to try and take over. He would then call in his Reaper buddies to 'harvest' the organics and make them into more Reapers. The Catalyst is the Citadel. The mastermind. The leader. The 'creator'.

[K2daE]

waldstr18 wrote...

Devos wrote...

Sorry but this is utter BS. If it wasn't for desperation for a do-over on the current ending no one would be defending the obvious flaws in this *ugh* theory. This is cheaper than the current ending in undermining the player and because it functions purely by selectively declaring some information given to the player as lies.

The thousand pages is the testament to the power of a well edited video shown to desperate people.

shiny, now i dont have to type all that. thanks a bunch.

so its no priority to indoctrinate the main character of the game? 

anyways, no, im not jealous of your obviously superior detection skills. i didnt even see the child running in the then exploding building for example. and ive been there 3 times already. but i have to support the comment of my new found friend. you all sound very desperate to me, as well.

it would be pointless to argue afterwards they did it out of fan pressure. i already stated that i will gladly shoot myself. but you are right, even if they say they planned it, i wouldnt actually believe it. but if you are predicting me starting a threat about it, your wrong. actually i couldnt make a threat or anything, cause i would have already shot myself by then.

and for what i am doing here. even though your theory is obviously wrong in my opinion, you seem to know a lot about the game. more than me anyway. so if i have questions i ask them here. usally i get more than one answer in a matter of minutes. also im waiting for the "we have been wrong! mass suicide!!!!" post.

Can I ask, why be so confrontational about the whole thing? If you don't like the theory, fair enough. Point out possible flaws (I'll grant you, there are some), but there is no need to be so hostile about it.

[baruaru]

MasterDracoStoc wrote...

baraura said (trying not to copy the massive amount of text): "... and I must recall that they are artificially created, not a so-natural-one." I agree, the Reapers are unnatural and must have been created. What I'm saying is that so long as life exist nature will take care of the rest. The reapers never need to worry about the cycle coming to an end so long as they are alive since they merely manipulate a natural cycle. My argument is solely against the idea that there is a group controlling evolution to ensure the cycle, since there is no need for the group to force a natural cycle.

Sorry for not being able to understand before this post. Thanks you.



But my only desire is.... If their creators is alive. If it is, i dont think they are localized on the milky way. (Opinion, anyways...)

[greywardencommander]

MasterDracoStoc wrote...

baraura said (trying not to copy the massive amount of text): "... and I must recall that they are artificially created, not a so-natural-one." I agree, the Reapers are unnatural and must have been created. What I'm saying is that so long as life exist nature will take care of the rest. The reapers never need to worry about the cycle coming to an end so long as they are alive since they merely manipulate a natural cycle. My argument is solely against the idea that there is a group controlling evolution to ensure the cycle, since there is no need for the group to force a natural cycle.

I see what you mean (I think). If they're harvesting organics to protect them from synthetics when synthetics can (in theory) outlive all Organics. If it's actually the other way round, they're harvesting organics to prevent the natural order of organics rising to the top and creating perfect synthetics, again why not just kill all the organics. Even with the 'original endings' according to Drew the creator, the dark energy plot was the Reapers reasoning and motivation behind harvesting 'protecting the organics from the impending doom'

However in either case the 'logic and reasoning' doesn't have to make sense because they're using it to manipulate Shepard in the current ending (if IDT is true) thus the logic alone can make you go eh I think i'll destroy you and take my chances and give the galaxy a chance to decide it's own future (perhaps the point of the endings as they are it's just not that well done imo)

Thus IDT can still have a 'are the Reapers the original organics (trying to save themselves or synthetics (that rose to destroy their creators')

Modifié par greywardencommander, 27 mars 2012 - 06:45 .

[Lakeshow1986]

"Protocols overridden. I will comply."

[Acturas]

I hope so

[ChuckieJ]

Devos wrote...

Sorry but this is utter BS. If it wasn't for desperation for a do-over on the current ending no one would be defending the obvious flaws in this *ugh* theory. This is cheaper than the current ending in undermining the player and because it functions purely by selectively declaring some information given to the player as lies.

The thousand pages is the testament to the power of a well edited video shown to desperate people.

Please add some basis to your claims. Mere ranting helps no one.

[maxloef]

probably been posted gonna add it either way angry joe on the ending and indoctrination!

[Skillz1986]

I posted this already, but it kind of got swept under the rug. It adresses the "why synthesis wit hugh ems" or "why destroy with low ems" questions. The way i see it is, with a low ems, the reapers just don't see the need to indoc you...they know you have no chance of winning this war even if you are fully aware of your actions. the basically do not give a flying ****. Increasing ems, equals increasing pants sh***ing for the reapers. they know..if they leave you fully conscious..you will lead you forces to victory...so they have to come up with more appealing "solutions" to break your will to fight. hope i managed to make clear what i'm talking about. not a native speaker..so here's hoping.

[waldstr18]

oh, if i made a hostile impression im sorry for that. not my intention at all.

if you are offended by my mass suicide comment, i didnt mean it. just wanted to be funny. oh, and you also dont have to worry, i dont plan to shoot myself (since im right and you are WRONG WRONG WORNG!) just kidding.

[BloodClaw95]

waldstr18 wrote...

oh, if i made a hostile impression im sorry for that. not my intention at all.

if you are offended by my mass suicide comment, i didnt mean it. just wanted to be funny. oh, and you also dont have to worry, i dont plan to shoot myself (since im right and you are WRONG WRONG WORNG!) just kidding.

I hope we can avoid the ritrualistic suicide over a game ending. I'm hoping theres more to the ending than what we know, but there's too many...extremeists.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

waldstr18 wrote...

oh, if i made a hostile impression im sorry for that. not my intention at all.

if you are offended by my mass suicide comment, i didnt mean it. just wanted to be funny. oh, and you also dont have to worry, i dont plan to shoot myself (since im right and you are WRONG WRONG WORNG!) just kidding.

I wasent offended and I realized the suicide comment was tongue in cheek, as was my own reply.

It is actually nice to see someone who does not beleive in the theory in here who is not a complete ass (excuse the language). It gives us someone to Indoctrinate

[palacios]

But the signs :
-Breathing scene on earth...not the Citadel - AND there's no space magic. Shepard has already died entering a planet. It aint gonna happen again.
-Shepard is the only one who sees the child .
-Rachni Queen description of indoctrination
-Shepard's dream/nightmare sequences
-Shepard bleeding from the same spot he shot Anderson. A wound that wasn't there before.
-Trees and bushes appeared after the beam. - I saw one tree before the beam, but after there's like 10 around you.
- "Indoctrinating me is much different than indoctrinating a reaper" - shepard to "TIM"
-swirls around the screen when TIM is forcing Shepard to shoot anderson.
-And more importantly, Stargazer's message "okay, just one more story" - yeah, we all knew we have DLCs to look forward to, so they really didn't need that part unless there's a special one  
- And countless more, but i think these are obvious ones that aren't just there to fill the game.

Coincidence ? I think not. Theres way too much of it. It's all an illusion.

Modifié par palacios, 27 mars 2012 - 06:55 .

[MasterDracoStoc]

baruaru wrote...

MasterDracoStoc wrote...

baraura said (trying not to copy the massive amount of text): "... and I must recall that they are artificially created, not a so-natural-one." I agree, the Reapers are unnatural and must have been created. What I'm saying is that so long as life exist nature will take care of the rest. The reapers never need to worry about the cycle coming to an end so long as they are alive since they merely manipulate a natural cycle. My argument is solely against the idea that there is a group controlling evolution to ensure the cycle, since there is no need for the group to force a natural cycle.

Sorry for not being able to understand before this post. Thanks you.



But my only desire is.... If their creators is alive. If it is, i dont think they are localized on the milky way. (Opinion, anyways...)

Its all good, I wasn't being entirely clear in my post. I agree that if the creators are still alive they left the Milky Way. For now all we have is speculation.

[K2daE]

waldstr18 wrote...

oh, if i made a hostile impression im sorry for that. not my intention at all.

if you are offended by my mass suicide comment, i didnt mean it. just wanted to be funny. oh, and you also dont have to worry, i dont plan to shoot myself (since im right and you are WRONG WRONG WORNG!) just kidding.

Just saying. I think healthy debate on the topic, including reasons why it may be false is great. But you may get a more leveled response to why it does not hold up by a different approach. Ah well, nature of the Internet I guess!

[Devos]

N7xELITE wrote...

This theory is not BS its a good idea and is creative. And has proof.

It doesn't have proof. It has a well edited video. Eloquence isn't proof.

The VI on Thessia doesn't seem to think Sheppard is indoctrinated. The counter? VI's aren't infallible...

"Wait. What?"

Selectively throwing out anything that contradicts something isn't proof. If Sheppard wasn't indoctrinated then much of the rest of the reasoning doesn't work.

There has been no real opportunity for that kind of indoctrination, Sarren and TIM were indoctrinated over a period of decades. The longest exposure Sheppard had was two days during the arival. outside of that maybe a dozen relatively brief encounters with reapers. The slow indoctrination suggested doesn't fit.

Finally why? Up to that point Sheppard has been instumental in putting together what is suggested to be the most credible threat the reapers have ever faced. They didn't stop her/him from doing that. So what are they going to achieve with Indoctrination right at the end?

What is BS is the number of people supporting it with a near militant attitude when it has more and just as obvious holes as current ending. It's a well edited video and an interesting interpretation but it's obviously wrong. If people were happy with the ending then this kind of interpretation would be an interesting aside.

[xsdob]

If the indoctrination theory is real, than what happens to everyone who didn't pick destroy, or didn't have enough EMS to survive it, do they just get a pop up screen that says

"sorry sucker, this content is only for those who got the good destroy ending, replay the game and pick the right choice next time."

Dragon age awakening didn't do this if you didn't live through the battle, so why should it be that way just to reward one fan theory. I propose that if they do implement the indoctrination theory, that you just need to beat the illusive man in order to break indoctrination, and not make it a guessing game where you have to pick the option that kills the geth and EDI.

[waldstr18]

thanks. now answer me this!

in london, after i destroyed the gun thingy and im about to be picked up, do i have to kill everyone there or can i wait it out? cause im more of a sneaky bastard, playing infiltrator, cloaking and just running from one check point to next. since you dont seem to get xp for killing anyways, that seems to be the most logical way.

and another thing. is it possible for banshees to be invisble? happend twice to me today. once in multiplayer, now in single player. the aura is still there, but just no banshee model.

as always, answers are apprecitated.