57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Aanlen]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but here goes:

I'm sure most have noticed that the ending scene with the grampa and that kid is taken right from Starchild by Wintersun www.youtube.com/watch . Could this song be a hint to the indoctrination theory? Becuase I read over the lyrics, and it really seems like it is: 

-------

[Part I (Wanderer of Time)]
So mysterious is your world, concealed beyond the stars
Far away from the earth, it flows one with time and dark as the night Million shapes and colours are storming inside your mind
Creating endless dimensions Forming universes without walls
Let go! of the stars, the stars that fell into the sea
Let go! of your thoughts and dreams, what can you see now
You cannot save them anymore - Wanderer of time - It's too late now - Creator of Dimensions - Destroy the walls of time Hands of the blind are holding your fate Tides of life will take you away, will take you away
Starchild! Visions are born from the unknown force It dominates the way of time The dream only ends, when the worlds come to an end Starchild! You cannot escape to the dark streams of the sea, to suppress your dreams Nothing can keep you away from the need to create 'cause your path is free...

[Part II (Buring Star)]
I've hold the fire within myself Years I've walked in the coldest winds Through the deserts of sand and snow The time is passing and I know, that I'm wasting my life, destroying my dreams I'm diving into the bottomless sea From sorrow and pain I find my strength the more pain I feel, the more I see Now I'm watching my life flowing in the dark like streams of fear running through my heart And it's wearing me down until I'm gone Soon I'll join the endless whirls of stars And I fall deeper into the unknown voids Something is dying, yet something is born And I fall into infinity like a burning star When will I find my silent dawn I fall like a burning star!

[Part III (The Creation)]
The curtains of mist are fading and the veils of star clouds are revealed Storms of new energy flows in the depths of my mind New constellations are born in total harmony of perfection And the dissonant unbalance was broken as the colours fell straight from the light

[Part IV (The Sea of Stars)]
I'm floating in the sea of stars, I'm drifting away from the shore I will be lost in the dream when the dark days come But I will make the time run backwards and I'll make the stars shine again I will light up the sky to a bright crimson nights ... And they'll shine together forever With brilliant silver colours they'll shine forever

[Part V (Finale)]
The whirls of stars takes you now far away away from the cold nightmare Let go of you thoughts and dreams and you will feel the warmth once again Starchild! in the Sea of Stars you fall You fall like a burning star! Starchild! in the Sea of Stars you fall ... But there is no end to creation

--------------

It talks a lot about dreams, about waking up, about revealing new energy in your mind. I feel like its a hint. It's certanly not proof, but the first time I saw the tie-up with this song, I felt like it was a hint, and not just lazyness.

[waldstr18]

hey, dont you be bashing my friend with the sharingan eyes.

yes, the illusive men did all that, while he was indoctrinated. question is, when did the indoctrination actually happen? also you can only indoctrinate people who are actually good guys. saren had good intentions, so did udina (made me sad to see him betray
everyone. i hope he was also indoctrinated.) and to come back to the little timmy, he wanted what was best for humanity. he just did what ever it took. now we are back at the paragon/renegade thing. you can save humanity both ways. you just have to choose one. tim chose the renegade option. the strong survive. later he was blinded by indoctrination.

wowowow, that would be a nice scenario for indoctrination. you get a choice where you have to do something that you no is wrong, to save everyone else. and then the thing shepard says comes into play. "lalla .. i will win this war and not lose our humanity by doing so". boom! in your indoctrination there is nothing like that. you even say killing the synthetics is the good option. again, i support the idea that you are the ones being indoctrinated.

[Kyzee]

 Okay, there's been a lot of hostility, mocking, and general disrespect the past several pages. Everyone needs to calm down and relax. There's NO need to insult each other just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion. We're here to have a civil discussion about IT, not call another person an "idiot" or "desperate" or anything else in that vein.

If you disagree with IT, simply say so and make your points as to why. If you agree with IT, do the same. If you find a flaw with either argument, it is entirely possible to do so without resorting to insults. 

I love this forum because I find it very smart and respectful on the whole. I'd really rather not see it degenerate into a flame war like so many other threads.

Please, everyone. Respect each other. It's not a lot to ask for.

[nyrocron]

Maaan, last post of the page and again noone will read it

@Kyzee: I will steal your signature

Modifié par nyrocron, 27 mars 2012 - 08:14 .

[Rifneno]

waldstr18 wrote...

the differnce between your theory and fight club, memento and inception is, that its clear to everyone that there is at least something going on.

LOL.  Seriously?  You meet the ghost of some kid who enables you to basically change reality so that all life forms present and future are a hybrid of organic and synthetic, and are then shown this via leaves with printed circuitry in them.  If that didn't make you think "something seems to be amiss here"...  If that sounded about right to you...  well, either you need to stop letting people listed as beneficiaries on your life insurance make your coffee, or you should probably make an appointment with a neurologist.

[greywardencommander]

Given I have a playstation, wii, 360 & gaming laptop I don't consider myself a fanboy of anything other than good games (particularly immersive RPG's) so if they're trying to instigate a console war based on that they've picked the wrong person because everything I've said regarding the intent of IDT has been 'PR double speak', non committal. I believe it could be true, doesn't mean I can't accept it might not be.

[nyrocron]

waldstr18 wrote...

the differnce between your theory and fight club, memento and inception is, that its clear to everyone that there is at least something going on.

Are you serious? You think that it is not clear that something is going on in the end?

[Rob Psyence]

TIM was indoctorinated since before ME2, started to be at least, and by the end of ME2 I believe fully. 

Modifié par Rob Psyence, 27 mars 2012 - 08:21 .

[Kyzee]

nyrocron wrote...

Maaan, last post of the page and again noone will read it

@Kyzee: I will steal your signature

Lol! Go right ahead! 

[lomar1o]

yay! Ok guys! The tough stone fell away from my heart.. It seems we finally win this and got Shepard back in action..gonna have some good sleep finally.. Biotic god..So hard being indoctrinated!

[greywardencommander]

waldstr18 wrote...

hey, dont you be bashing my friend with the sharingan eyes.

yes, the illusive men did all that, while he was indoctrinated. question is, when did the indoctrination actually happen? also you can only indoctrinate people who are actually good guys. saren had good intentions, so did udina (made me sad to see him betray
everyone. i hope he was also indoctrinated.) and to come back to the little timmy, he wanted what was best for humanity. he just did what ever it took. now we are back at the paragon/renegade thing. you can save humanity both ways. you just have to choose one. tim chose the renegade option. the strong survive. later he was blinded by indoctrination.

wowowow, that would be a nice scenario for indoctrination. you get a choice where you have to do something that you no is wrong, to save everyone else. and then the thing shepard says comes into play. "lalla .. i will win this war and not lose our humanity by doing so". boom! in your indoctrination there is nothing like that. you even say killing the synthetics is the good option. again, i support the idea that you are the ones being indoctrinated.

In the lore there's plenty to suggest TIM has either been 'indoctrinated' in all the games OR has only finally succumbed to the full indoctrination (it's a slow subtle process)


IT isn't about getting a happy ending it's about the player being able to have the happy ending to the awful ending and everything in between (remember ME2 and Shepard dying...yeah that didn't happen so retconning pretty normal in ME already even if they went the one ending route)

If you are trolling for the sake of trolling then all you're achieving is what Bioware probably want either way, to keep this theory affloat until they make a statement re. the endings.
If you just can't accept it was intentional then I accept that but why does that mean IDT can't work for future content (whatever it is because it's coming they said so it's not the last of Shepard or of ME yet, ME3 isn't technically over regardless thus they've broken no promises)

[Stigweird85]

Aanlen wrote...

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but here goes:

I'm sure most have noticed that the ending scene with the grampa and that kid is taken right from Starchild by Wintersun www.youtube.com/watch . Could this song be a hint to the indoctrination theory? Becuase I read over the lyrics, and it really seems like it is: 

-------

[Part I (Wanderer of Time)]
So mysterious is your world, concealed beyond the stars
Far away from the earth, it flows one with time and dark as the night Million shapes and colours are storming inside your mind
Creating endless dimensions Forming universes without walls
Let go! of the stars, the stars that fell into the sea
Let go! of your thoughts and dreams, what can you see now
You cannot save them anymore - Wanderer of time - It's too late now - Creator of Dimensions - Destroy the walls of time Hands of the blind are holding your fate Tides of life will take you away, will take you away
Starchild! Visions are born from the unknown force It dominates the way of time The dream only ends, when the worlds come to an end Starchild! You cannot escape to the dark streams of the sea, to suppress your dreams Nothing can keep you away from the need to create 'cause your path is free...

[Part II (Buring Star)]
I've hold the fire within myself Years I've walked in the coldest winds Through the deserts of sand and snow The time is passing and I know, that I'm wasting my life, destroying my dreams I'm diving into the bottomless sea From sorrow and pain I find my strength the more pain I feel, the more I see Now I'm watching my life flowing in the dark like streams of fear running through my heart And it's wearing me down until I'm gone Soon I'll join the endless whirls of stars And I fall deeper into the unknown voids Something is dying, yet something is born And I fall into infinity like a burning star When will I find my silent dawn I fall like a burning star!

[Part III (The Creation)]
The curtains of mist are fading and the veils of star clouds are revealed Storms of new energy flows in the depths of my mind New constellations are born in total harmony of perfection And the dissonant unbalance was broken as the colours fell straight from the light

[Part IV (The Sea of Stars)]
I'm floating in the sea of stars, I'm drifting away from the shore I will be lost in the dream when the dark days come But I will make the time run backwards and I'll make the stars shine again I will light up the sky to a bright crimson nights ... And they'll shine together forever With brilliant silver colours they'll shine forever

[Part V (Finale)]
The whirls of stars takes you now far away away from the cold nightmare Let go of you thoughts and dreams and you will feel the warmth once again Starchild! in the Sea of Stars you fall You fall like a burning star! Starchild! in the Sea of Stars you fall ... But there is no end to creation

--------------

It talks a lot about dreams, about waking up, about revealing new energy in your mind. I feel like its a hint. It's certanly not proof, but the first time I saw the tie-up with this song, I felt like it was a hint, and not just lazyness.

Or it could just be a deliberate easter egg like the fact you find a Kakliosaur skull preserved in amber that is used for cloning? Or that a shop on the citadel is called snap crackle and shock

[Iconoclaste]

XTR3M3 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

People who don't like IT mostly do because they just don't get it. They prefer to try to fill-in huge plot holes with all kinds of non sensical speculation, that quickly get overwhelmed by opposite reactions and speculation on many, many threads...

yea, we got it, we just hated it because it wasn't what they said it would be. You might want to rethink your logic because I think its holes are as big as the plot and lore holes in the ending. I guess those of us who were thinking that we would get an ending where our choices mattered are too stupid to "get it". please, I have played this game multiple different ways modifying multiple variables and choices and you know what? I still get ending A,B, or C. That is what we don't like, not that we don't get it.

The "don't get it" is not pointing to the "endgames", but to the IT. People trying to debunk it read 900+ pages and all related stuff in the given links, really? And they pondered it all, and just throw-in a "Nay, no logic in there, don't see the point"...

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 27 mars 2012 - 08:21 .

[Vahilor]

I rather think some people should read the 900 pages first before they start to discuss IDT.. I get the impression they only offend it cause of the fun of it...and driving other people nuts.

[n00bsauce2010]

Rifneno wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

the differnce between your theory and fight club, memento and inception is, that its clear to everyone that there is at least something going on.

LOL.  Seriously?  You meet the ghost of some kid who enables you to basically change reality so that all life forms present and future are a hybrid of organic and synthetic, and are then shown this via leaves with printed circuitry in them.  If that didn't make you think "something seems to be amiss here"...  If that sounded about right to you...  well, either you need to stop letting people listed as beneficiaries on your life insurance make your coffee, or you should probably make an appointment with a neurologist.

Lol.

+1 to you

[waldstr18]

greywarden guy, i keep forgetting you have accounted something for all 3 choices. sorry for that. oh, and i played all three games several times. but always paragon only, i just cant bring myself to take a red option. maybe i should visit a neurologist.

rifneno: no, i didnt find the star child odd. i really didnt. but then again, /me average player.

and to my noobian friend: the irony eludes you, and im sorry for that.

[BloodClaw95]

This was probably mentioned before, but the 'shadowy figures' (oily shadows) in the dream sequences get more intense the deeper you get into the game. In the first dream sequence, there are no shadow people, in the last dream, there's a lot of them.

[Vahilor]

@Waldstr18: Did you play ALL Mass Effect games or only the third one ?

[palacios]

Aanlen wrote...

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but here goes:

I'm sure most have noticed that the ending scene with the grampa and that kid is taken right from Starchild by Wintersun www.youtube.com/watch . Could this song be a hint to the indoctrination theory? Becuase I read over the lyrics, and it really seems like it is: 

-------

[Part I (Wanderer of Time)]
So mysterious is your world, concealed beyond the stars
Far away from the earth, it flows one with time and dark as the night Million shapes and colours are storming inside your mind
Creating endless dimensions Forming universes without walls
Let go! of the stars, the stars that fell into the sea
Let go! of your thoughts and dreams, what can you see now
You cannot save them anymore - Wanderer of time - It's too late now - Creator of Dimensions - Destroy the walls of time Hands of the blind are holding your fate Tides of life will take you away, will take you away
Starchild! Visions are born from the unknown force It dominates the way of time The dream only ends, when the worlds come to an end Starchild! You cannot escape to the dark streams of the sea, to suppress your dreams Nothing can keep you away from the need to create 'cause your path is free...

[Part II (Buring Star)]
I've hold the fire within myself Years I've walked in the coldest winds Through the deserts of sand and snow The time is passing and I know, that I'm wasting my life, destroying my dreams I'm diving into the bottomless sea From sorrow and pain I find my strength the more pain I feel, the more I see Now I'm watching my life flowing in the dark like streams of fear running through my heart And it's wearing me down until I'm gone Soon I'll join the endless whirls of stars And I fall deeper into the unknown voids Something is dying, yet something is born And I fall into infinity like a burning star When will I find my silent dawn I fall like a burning star!

[Part III (The Creation)]
The curtains of mist are fading and the veils of star clouds are revealed Storms of new energy flows in the depths of my mind New constellations are born in total harmony of perfection And the dissonant unbalance was broken as the colours fell straight from the light

[Part IV (The Sea of Stars)]
I'm floating in the sea of stars, I'm drifting away from the shore I will be lost in the dream when the dark days come But I will make the time run backwards and I'll make the stars shine again I will light up the sky to a bright crimson nights ... And they'll shine together forever With brilliant silver colours they'll shine forever

[Part V (Finale)]
The whirls of stars takes you now far away away from the cold nightmare Let go of you thoughts and dreams and you will feel the warmth once again Starchild! in the Sea of Stars you fall You fall like a burning star! Starchild! in the Sea of Stars you fall ... But there is no end to creation

--------------

It talks a lot about dreams, about waking up, about revealing new energy in your mind. I feel like its a hint. It's certanly not proof, but the first time I saw the tie-up with this song, I felt like it was a hint, and not just lazyness.

I felt the same when i first read them. Coincedence? I think not! 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

So on another note people, who here wants to try and see if we cant hit page 1000 by tommorow? Maybe Bioware will give us a treat when we do (Dont actually beleive in that, but fun thought)

Lets go people

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 27 mars 2012 - 08:23 .

[Kanon777]

madmaxjr3 wrote...

I do hope and wish it was a dream/nightmare/hallucination/Indoctrination but i dont know if anyone has pointed this out yet but I think that Javik the Protheans disproves this thoery by bioware adding him later maybe they saw the same suff and it was too late to change but wouldn't javik detected by touch if sheperd was indoctrinated at all??? his own people were indoctrinated so wouldn't he be able to sense sheperd being controlled by the reapers?? not sure just a thought of mine again dont know if someone posted this already

Didnt Javik also said that the reapers loved to use children (husks or indocrinated) against people?

That could be hint.

[BloodClaw95]

tobito113 wrote...

madmaxjr3 wrote...

I do hope and wish it was a dream/nightmare/hallucination/Indoctrination but i dont know if anyone has pointed this out yet but I think that Javik the Protheans disproves this thoery by bioware adding him later maybe they saw the same suff and it was too late to change but wouldn't javik detected by touch if sheperd was indoctrinated at all??? his own people were indoctrinated so wouldn't he be able to sense sheperd being controlled by the reapers?? not sure just a thought of mine again dont know if someone posted this already

Didnt Javik also said that the reapers loved to use children (husks or indocrinated) against people?

That could be hint.

He said one of the races during his cycle thought sacrificing their young would make the Reapers leave.

[Iconoclaste]

If IT is so flawed as a proposal to tie all the loose ends together, how come is it so easy to use its supporting evidence to answer each and every point against it, and so quickly?

If we skip the points brought by the ones who read nothing of the 900+ pages, I mean...

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 27 mars 2012 - 08:28 .

[palacios]

I also find it weird that the game puts you back before the cerberus mission, not before the earth mission. Meaning that once they release the complete ending, you have to go through it again. perhaps we missed something important at the cerberus base? I also see the end as a learning lesson for players because we're going to have to go through this at least one more time and this time it will be final.
Does anyone else have a thought about how you dont get locked in to anything at the end, no matter what you choose and you go back two missions before?