57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Rob Psyence]

Skillz1986 wrote...

I'm pretty sure aria will have a larger role in upcomming dlc...take back omega for example..or something like that

She will and I'm looking foward to that, but I don't think they'd announce that at PAX.

[schneeland]

Skillz1986 wrote...

I'm pretty sure aria will have a larger role in upcomming dlc...take back omega for example..or something like that

You think so? I always had the impression that they will gladly charge us for an Omega DLC ... Don't know about you, but with the Mass Effect series, they really got me by the balls...

[Poison_Berrie]

BloodClaw95 wrote...

This was probably mentioned before, but the 'shadowy figures' (oily shadows) in the dream sequences get more intense the deeper you get into the game. In the first dream sequence, there are no shadow people, in the last dream, there's a lot of them.

That's probably meant to indicate the increasing victims of the war, since it the voices of the Dead also become louder and more clear as time goes by.

I still go by the conviction that considering their other stories or the other stories in ME 3, I really don't think they would intentionally pull of something with such a degree of subtlety.

[n00bsauce2010]

waldstr18 wrote...

i did give you an example for a better indoctrination.

the one where you have to make a choice which is clearly wrong, to save someone/everyone. there would be some emotional distress in it. please dont force me to actually write a scene with multiple outcomes, cause i know noobsauce would pick it apart and not laugh at my jokes.. grumpy as he is (assuming he is a he).

oh, and greysomething.... why dont you all get simpler names! no, i really liked your conditioning stuff. the word red written in green. thought a lot about it and not only concerning mass effect. thanks for that.

The whole ending forces you to potentially make two choices... which are clearly wrong. What could possibly be good about synthesis? Are we to assume shepard would just pick that.. how does he know the trillions of lives in the galaxy would be okay with that? How is there any way to be sure controlling the reapers will last forever?

What example for a better indoctrination?

[Rob Psyence]

waldstr18 wrote...

i did give you an example for a better indoctrination.

the one where you have to make a choice which is clearly wrong, to save someone/everyone. there would be some emotional distress in it. please dont force me to actually write a scene with multiple outcomes, cause i know noobsauce would pick it apart and not laugh at my jokes.. grumpy as he is (assuming he is a he).

oh, and greysomething.... why dont you all get simpler names! no, i really liked your conditioning stuff. the word red written in green. thought a lot about it and not only concerning mass effect. thanks for that.

First of all that's what the Geth and Quarian decision is. Secondly that is too overt to be indocrotination.

[Sammuthegreat]

Rob Psyence wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

I'm pretty sure aria will have a larger role in upcomming dlc...take back omega for example..or something like that

She will and I'm looking foward to that, but I don't think they'd announce that at PAX.

If the PAX reveal is an Omega DLC, then they can pretty safely kiss goodbye to 90% of their consumer base.

[waldstr18]

Rob Psyence wrote...

Yep cause the starchild saying "Hur durr i made the reapers, that are synthetic, to kill off billions of people in order to save organics from making sythetics that will destroy you." Makes complete sense.

actually you didnt listen at all.

shepard raised your point already. and starchilds answer:

the reapers dont kill all organics, just the advanced races so the younger ones can thrive ... thrive... thriiiiveee... and then get also killed 50k years later, but by then there will already be new simpler organic life, which then also can thrive .. (i hope i spelled thrive correctly - no native speaker)

oh, and by the way. i would have accepted the reapers kill everyone explanation, just because enough is enough. the whole synthetics reasoning.. i wouldnt have needed that.

the people are horrible... kill! kill! kill!

[Kenthen]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

Rob Psyence wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

I'm pretty sure aria will have a larger role in upcomming dlc...take back omega for example..or something like that

She will and I'm looking foward to that, but I don't think they'd announce that at PAX.

If the PAX reveal is an Omega DLC, then they can pretty safely kiss goodbye to 90% of their consumer base.

Now that feels like a ridiculous exaggeration.

Modifié par Kenthen, 27 mars 2012 - 08:52 .

[baruaru]

Tr0n01d wrote...

 About the origins of the reapers, I think that  after I pieced together all the information exposed on this 900 pages long topic I came along with a pretty solid theory.

Be aware, wall of text incoming !

The reapers are in fact the last relics of a million year old civilisation, ( call them what you want ).

Harbinger ( true name ? )  was once an organic being.

During that time a huge war brought the galaxy to the brink of collapsing.

planets where sucked of their resources until their last drop or dust, or just blown away with hyper weapons of mass destruction.
( If I remember correctly, in the codex they explain that the particularity of one planet is that it have a enormous canyon that scared one face of the planet and seemed the results of a huge laser canon ).

One faction created the reapers not as we know them today but as warships, mere weapons.

But the warships ultimately gained consciousness, like the geth, but unlike them they decided to wipe out all the organic beings ( everyone, not just the advanced civilisations ) because they judged that organics where inferior ( or something like that )

they almost succeeded.

Harbinger's civilisation last resort consisted in a crucible like weapon that would allow to take the control over them, but they wouldn't be able to save their civilisation.


why ?

the galaxy was in such poor conditions that it could not sustain those civilisations needs, ( imagine if we run out of oil in one day ).

they ultimately disappeared.
only the reapers remained.

But they needed a catalyst, someone who should sacrifice himself in order to merge with a reaper and gain control on the others.

a mega reaper of sorts ( yea, harby as we now know ).

Harbinger, now in command of a huge army of warships with enough power to tear the galaxy apart and in reaper form decided that in order to avoid such a tragedy to happen ever again ( galaxy merely destroyed, organics completely wiped out, creation of a weapon of mass destruction that looses control, etc... ), he would "clean" the board every now and then ( every 50000 years ), but preserving the less advanced beings in order to allow organic life to be preserved.

I don't know if planets can refill themselves, but allow the galaxy to recover can be a nice reason to. ( I think )

and that is why ( in my opinion ) harbinger is so obsessed with Shepard, because he wants you in order to become the new catalyst, take his place and perpetuate the cycles.

and there is where Shepard indoctrination comes.

in order to succeed, harbinger has to make Shepard agree with his way of thinking.


the end 

just my opinion anyway, take it as you want.

sorry for my multiple faults, English is not my native language.

On my opinion, like i said before... Theres a remote chance that the creators itself, must be alive
on the other galaxy (opinion, obviously... sadface), considering that even the oldest reaper (Harbinger) doesnt know the name of his creator.

And about how they were on the first days... I might say that they were initially a simple AI or robot, like the Geth. And the rest like you said (Fighting, etc). There might be a chance aswell that they are doing the natural action of their creators, which were the balancing the chaos.

Modifié par baruaru, 27 mars 2012 - 08:54 .

[rickf7666]

I had an idea about what might have made the Indoctrination Theory more obvious is to make the kid you see at the beginning and throughout the game a young version of Shepard. So you would need a male and female version and match hair/skin/eye color.

My problem is I never cared about this random kid. When the kid refused to come out of the air vent I pretty much wrote him off.

So what does everyone else think? Would this make things better or worse for IT?

[Iconoclaste]

Any event following these endings, where Shepard makes "endoctrinated false choices" then gets to see a nice dreaming sequence too close to reality but still disconnected, could simply begin in a similar "semi-realistic dream", without it removing anything from the "false choices" made. In fact, they are totally irrelevant, since the rest of the allied forces are not standing still while Shepard is having a chat with the Catalyst. Lots of things could have happened while he was daydreaming.

Saren did not need to be manipulated at each and every moment of is "endoctrinated" existence like a vulgar "puppet" : he only had to be "convinced" to pursue the Reapers agenda. Once on his own, as long as he held his "good course of actions", Sovereign did not have to intervene. Only at the end of ME1, when Shepard succeeds to have him thinking "on his own" once more, do we see Saren "suffering" from Sovereign's attempt to take him over once more.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 27 mars 2012 - 08:55 .

[Cobra's_back]

waldstr18 wrote...

actually you have to look at paragon and renegade to understand that.

now if you have played jade empire (open palm, closed fist), you know, that none of them stand exactly for good or evil. but i dont feel like explaining that right now, since i probably miss something anyhow. it could also just be seen as speculation. but trust me, the explanation is in the game, and i think they kept the principal in mass effect.

what i thought was actually that that was the twist. and i also was amazed by it. forced me to rethink the whole cerberus part. and i came to the point (supporting the jade empire logic) that he wasnt that bad of a guy actually, since he didnt change shepard. he just had a different way of making things right.

oh, and shepard didnt actually say control is bad, all she (he) said was, its too dangerous, cant be done. now with help of the crucible/catalist it can be done. so, control it is.
(its the lesser evil. you dont kill the geth nor edi, you are not being pretentious deciding to change everyone...)

TIM is evil. Read the Mass Effect books. They never intended anyone to see him as the good guy. He implants his own people and turns them into husk. Saren was pretty evil as well just ask Anderson.

My Paragon Shepard told the Salarian Daltrass Krogans deserve another chance. Play paragon and watch what Shepard states to Daltrass and the reporter Diana Allers about the Krogans. A Paragon Shepard would never allow the Reapers to contrinue. Reapers use the past to dictate the future. Shepard is making history and changing the way species see each other.

I'm pretty sure he is fighting indoctrination in the end. Can a person fight indoctrination? If Shepard lets the Asari Commando live from the Thorian's control ME1, she emails Shepard in ME3 telling Shepard she believes she is still indcotrinated, but fighting it. She and the Feros survivers become War Assets. I see this as the writer telling us that the indoctrinated person can fight back as long as they have something to fight for. The Ghostboy has been trying to destroy Shepard's hope. Reapers tell lies and control people by using their worst fears. This is why Blue and Green is not an option.

[Jillers]

waldstr18 wrote...

jillers, what would your mother say, if she saw you in a battle shortly before you die. you know, when the screen gets darker and red on the edges.

and to defend my simple mindedness:
legion said, my mind makes its own pictures (the quarians.. i know you know what i mean)
i met the child. i had dreams with the child in it. (but in the end it was transparent)
and to me the star child explanations made sense.

having just typed that, i know thats going to be another discussion for at least an hour...

I don't get where you're trying to go with that - because believe me, she's seen me die against those effing banshees and brutes many a time (to the point of hilarity).
Your point was (unless I've misunderstood, which is possible) that if there was something going on at the ending that was more than literal, then like Inception or Memento, people would have been able to tell that something was off, that there would be something leading up to it.

My point is that from waking up from being hit from the beam onwards, someone, who is not a gamer and is only familiar with ME3 from a spectator standpoint, someone who knows about the dreams and the kid, etc.. (ie: someone familiar with the aesthic story-telling of the game) thought that something was up with that end seqeunce, from being hit with the beam on. 

She also asked me if I could shoot the catlyst kid thing when I got the chance. 

In other words, someone, whose only actual knowledge if the game and universe, comes from watching someone else play the game sporatically, still thought something was up with that ending sequence.

So, either really bad writing, or there was something going on with it. Whether or not it's IT remains to be seen. (I hope it is, but if it's not, I hope the clarity is just as satisfying)

[Rob Psyence]

waldstr18 wrote...

Rob Psyence wrote...

Yep cause the starchild saying "Hur durr i made the reapers, that are synthetic, to kill off billions of people in order to save organics from making sythetics that will destroy you." Makes complete sense.

actually you didnt listen at all.

shepard raised your point already. and starchilds answer:

the reapers dont kill all organics, just the advanced races so the younger ones can thrive ... thrive... thriiiiveee... and then get also killed 50k years later, but by then there will already be new simpler organic life, which then also can thrive .. (i hope i spelled thrive correctly - no native speaker)

oh, and by the way. i would have accepted the reapers kill everyone explanation, just because enough is enough. the whole synthetics reasoning.. i wouldnt have needed that.

the people are horrible... kill! kill! kill!

I think it's funny how much of an inside the box troll you are. And I didnt listen? You're the one not listening I didnt say they kill all organics, I said they kill billions of people, but apparently that's right to you. You say you're full paragon but you're acting like you're full renegade. Apparently things have to be in your face for you to understand.

[Stigweird85]

Skillz1986 wrote...

I'm pretty sure aria will have a larger role in upcomming dlc...take back omega for example..or something like that

Without a doubt, take back omega will be DLC, whether it will be single player or multiplayer is still up in the air. For Biowares sake it better not be the DLC announced at Pax

[BloodClaw95]

Hate to play this card, but your gun has unlimited ammo after Harbinger knocks you out. Unlimited fricken ammo. Seems like something you'd see in a dream.

Or an action movie. Bottomless clip ftw.

[Sammuthegreat]

Kenthen wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

Rob Psyence wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

I'm pretty sure aria will have a larger role in upcomming dlc...take back omega for example..or something like that

She will and I'm looking foward to that, but I don't think they'd announce that at PAX.

If the PAX reveal is an Omega DLC, then they can pretty safely kiss goodbye to 90% of their consumer base.

Now that feels like a ridiculous exaggeration.

There has literally never in human history been less of an exaggeration.

[Cucobr]

waldstr18 wrote...

greywarden guy, i keep forgetting you have accounted something for all 3 choices. sorry for that. oh, and i played all three games several times. but always paragon only, i just cant bring myself to take a red option. maybe i should visit a neurologist.

rifneno: no, i didnt find the star child odd. i really didnt. but then again, /me average player.

and to my noobian friend: the irony eludes you, and im sorry for that.

oooh... so... for you is perfectly cool introduce a new character who is, by the way, a GOD-WHO-MADE-EVERYTHING at the last 5 min of the game?

seriously?

Modifié par Cucobr, 27 mars 2012 - 08:58 .

[Iconoclaste]

BloodClaw95 wrote...

Hate to play this card, but your gun has unlimited ammo after Harbinger knocks you out. Unlimited fricken ammo. Seems like something you'd see in a dream.

Or an action movie. Bottomless clip ftw.

It's already been addressed as required to compensate for slow motion in gameplay.

[steve3194]

I just noticed when hackett contacts shepard inside the citidel. Shepard's responds while simultaneously groaning in pain. Just sounds strange as if the response was said within shepard's head. You can't see his face at this point.

Maybe Im over analyzing it but it still seemed like this

[n00bsauce2010]

Kenthen wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

Rob Psyence wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

I'm pretty sure aria will have a larger role in upcomming dlc...take back omega for example..or something like that

She will and I'm looking foward to that, but I don't think they'd announce that at PAX.

If the PAX reveal is an Omega DLC, then they can pretty safely kiss goodbye to 90% of their consumer base.

Now that feels like a ridiculous exaggeration.

THat is because it is. We have no proof about how many people are actually upset. Simply stating 90% of people were upset or letdown is a lie. that means over 3 million people are not okay. It's simply exaggeration.

[Rob Psyence]

BloodClaw95 wrote...

Hate to play this card, but your gun has unlimited ammo after Harbinger knocks you out. Unlimited fricken ammo. Seems like something you'd see in a dream.

Or an action movie. Bottomless clip ftw.

I think that's just them ensuring you kill the three husketeers and marauder shields more than anything

[greywardencommander]

Dance Craze wrote...

greywardencommander wrote...

Dance Craze wrote...

Then if you destroy the reapers and break indoctrination... How and why would harbinger show you this happy stargazer stuff?

Edit: Or for that matter show you that your crew has escaped and that you have made the right choice? No sense.

Harbinger is planting it in his mind (last 10 minutes is all in his mind) and is playing on the hope that Shepard has that everything will be ok in the end even if not for him the galaxy and his crew

But WHY or HOW could he do that if you chose to destroy the reapers/broke indoctrination? Why or how would he make you feel like that was the right choice? You are no longer under his control at that point. Also: Why is shepard refered to as "the shepard" in the stargazer scene? Does this mean that machines have taken over and refer to him like the geth would refer to each other? 

suggestions, subliminal messaging to gain control it's all a process you don't flick a switch and you're 'indoctrinated' in ME or in real life thus the final scene is the battle for his mind and everything is Harbinger playing on all of Sheps thoughts and hopes and desires to manipulate him into aligning with the Reapers - i.e. it's all in his head while knocked out giving Harbinger the best chance to control him at last (he's made it clear he has a fascination with him and clearly wants Shepard's DNA for the ultimate Human Reaper or something)

[Sammuthegreat]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Kenthen wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

Rob Psyence wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

I'm pretty sure aria will have a larger role in upcomming dlc...take back omega for example..or something like that

She will and I'm looking foward to that, but I don't think they'd announce that at PAX.

If the PAX reveal is an Omega DLC, then they can pretty safely kiss goodbye to 90% of their consumer base.

Now that feels like a ridiculous exaggeration.

THat is because it is. We have no proof about how many people are actually upset. Simply stating 90% of people were upset or letdown is a lie. that means over 3 million people are not okay. It's simply exaggeration.

Yeesh. Of course it was an exaggeration. Never heard of using over-exaggeration to emphasise a point?

This is like how jokes aren't funny when you have to explain them.

Whatever. Point is, if the PAX reveal is an "Aria Does Omega" DLC, they'll lose a whole lot of fans.