57139 réponses à ce sujet

[nyrocron]

Ok I'll repeat myself. On this screenshot of the chasm:http://s681.photobuc...03-27_00008.jpg
You can see many doors are on the side you came from. That means the whole thing could, in fact, have realignet itself (rotated) just like Anderson said. That would mean that Anderson getting ahead of Shepard would actually make sense. If it already has been discussed, please repeat the explanation for me, I did not see it despite reading more than 250 pages of this thread.

/edit: ok someone answered. i mean, anderson SAID that the walls were realigning themselves, it would make perfect sense imo.

Modifié par nyrocron, 27 mars 2012 - 11:18 .

[ComradeNapoleon]

SirLugash wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

ComradeNapoleon wrote...

Right! Manged to get both the Steam overlay and the Origin one running at the same time, allowing me to take screenshots! I'll just link to photobucket, as these are really high resolution images (1920x1200), and will clog things up:

http://s681.photobuc...03-27_00001.jpg
This shows that the name of the stage is "Citadel: The Return". Hadn't been mentioned before, thought it was interesting.

http://s681.photobuc...03-27_00005.jpg
The "Blood River" from inside the tunnel

http://s681.photobuc...03-27_00004.jpg
Closer shot

http://s681.photobuc...03-27_00007.jpg
Top of the waterfall

http://s681.photobuc...03-27_00008.jpg
Full view.

http://s681.photobuc...03-27_00010.jpg
Other side, can see the ones in the distance

http://s681.photobuc...03-27_00013.jpg
Notice the pool at the bottom of the chasm? That's worthy of note.

Sorry for the spam, now - thoughts?

Not on the rivers of blood but I did not look around on my only playthrough to the end and did not see that but there are many doors at this chasm. so it could have shifted just like Anderson said and that would actually make everything he said valid.
I can't believe that this has not been brought up yet in this thread, so please explain.

Not sure about that.
According to the screens, there are many exits next to where we came out, but as far as I can remember, there was only one entrance to the control room, which is the one you came in.
So basically, the only other option would be that the control room was kind of moving, but wouldn't Anderson notice it ?

@ComradeNapoleon: Could you post some more screens of the walk to to the control room ?
Especially from where you came out and where you would enter the control room ?
Maybe we could check out any other ways to get there.

I can't be arsed to go back on and replay that bit, but I might do that sometime in the future. It's theoretically conceivable that some element of that area could move about, but I think unlikely.

Anderson said "The walls are shifting", not "the bridge/control room" or whatever. I can say though that there are definitely no other ways into the control room without some element of the area moving.

[steve3194]

If IT turns out to have been their plan all along it would definitely be genius both story and business wise. Leave fans confused and left in suspense for weeks then release a post ending explaination or something along those lines. They won't be changing the ending though just adding too it that's what I understand from their twitter.

They shouldn't leave it too long to release the dlc though as I'd imagine people will become less passionate about it the longer it's drawn out.

Here's hoping we get it sooner rather than later

[n00bsauce2010]

nyrocron wrote...

Ok I'll repeat myself. On this screenshot of the chasm:http://s681.photobuc...03-27_00008.jpg
You can see many doors are on the side you came from. That means the whole thing could, in fact, have realignet itself (rotated) just like Anderson said. That would mean that Anderson getting ahead of Shepard would actually make sense. If it already has been discussed, please repeat the explanation for me, I did not see it despite reading more than 250 pages of this thread.

/edit: ok someone answered. i mean, anderson SAID that the walls were realigning themselves, it would make perfect sense imo.

Still doesn't answer how and why he was there. Still doesn't answer how he got ahead of shepard. And how come we don't see anything aligning itself? All we see is the shadow broker peices moving down with the electric pulses

[ComradeNapoleon]

nyrocron wrote...

Ok I'll repeat myself. On this screenshot of the chasm:http://s681.photobuc...03-27_00008.jpg
You can see many doors are on the side you came from. That means the whole thing could, in fact, have realignet itself (rotated) just like Anderson said. That would mean that Anderson getting ahead of Shepard would actually make sense. If it already has been discussed, please repeat the explanation for me, I did not see it despite reading more than 250 pages of this thread.

/edit: ok someone answered. i mean, anderson SAID that the walls were realigning themselves, it would make perfect sense imo.

Actually, that's a good point. The central area could conceivably rotate. I still find it unlikely however...

[dfstone]

I don't think the whole thing was a hallucination, but I do think the reapers were messing with Shepherd's brain.

[ComradeNapoleon]

Although, I will point out that Anderson says "I see a way across [the chasm]" at roughly the same time as you cross the bridge yourself, so...yeah.

[Str8 Krazy]

I know a lot of people keep mentioning that Vega is hearing a buzzing sound. I think (if indoctrination is true) that the indoctrination would have come from the Reaper IFF you got in ME2. I remember Edi saying something about it working 100% so it must still be on the Normandy.

[Either.Ardrey]

waldstr18 wrote...

Either.Ardrey wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

the differnce between your theory and fight club, memento and inception is, that its clear to everyone that there is at least something going on. now in mass effect 3 its not clear for the average player, like me, to pick up on something like your theory. my point being, if it were indoctrination, they would have told us in some undisputable way.

now you could argue that they will tell us in the dlc, but they changed statements in between, as far as i can recall. first they said, no changing the ending, then they said, fans need more closure. if your theory is right and it was planned all along, then why would they change statements? instead they would have said: wait for it... wait for it ... BOOM!

and art or not, moneyz! oh, and the movie are a bad example for your point. just look at hollywood and the movies it craps out. if you are interested in that topic i can really recomment the big picture show by movie bob on the escapistmagazine.com. he seems to be smart by the way.

also, another reason why i dont like the indoctrination theory, i dont think the last part of the game would make a good indoctrination. dont get me wrong, i really liked it. i actually jumped up and said "f! yeah!" when my girl started limping. i even took a crap between the star child explanation and my actual choosing, cause i wanted to really think it through, thats how amazed i were with the choices given. (oh, that actually might also point in the direction of me not being that bright... yet i enjoyed sitting on the toilett contemplating) anyhow... but all that being indoctrination? i would expect more. so your indoctrination theory would actually destroy the ending for me.

just for the record: the end videos are crap and need to be changed.

i have to add something which i havent made clear enough. in menento, fight club, inception, when people leave the theater, then everyone knows something was up. thats what i meant. not through out the whole movie. could have been misunderstood. had to clarify, sorry.

That's pretty much just your interpretation, because I personally felt the exact opposite during my first, unspoiled playthrough (referencing primarily to your "F'Yeah" paragraph).

When Shep got hit by the laser, my first thought was "WTF, did I do something wrong?" Everything after that just felt wrong, off, and I couldn't exactly place it at the time, but it was clear as day that something was not right. And this is coming from someone who completely made sense of Skyline, which was often described as non-sensical. I'm completely oblivious to subtle hints in almost every single film/television show I've watched. And yet I knew something was up/wrong with the end of ME3 from the get go.

I kept questioning every single thing that happend. And when it came to the final choices, that feeling only intensified. Where was my option to question the Catalyst's argument? Why the hell was Shepard unquestioningly trusting this thing when he had been questioning every other person in the game(s) to the point of idiocy? Where was my "Screw you Catalyst, synthetic war is not set in stone! Look at what I did with the Geth and EDI!"? What was the point of doing that if you're just going to ignore it?

And as soon as I finished the game, I left feeling depressed and defeated (I've suffered through clinical depression and I felt the exact same things after finishing ME3 as I had during depression 10 years ago. This defeats the purpose of escapist entertainment), and I was unable to pick up a video game for a week until reading this theory/thread calmed me down enough to contemplate what happened. 

first of all, sorry, to hear about your depression. unfortunately i dont know enough about that subject so i dont know if thats possible, but i hope you dont suffer a relapse.

now im sorry to use your disorder for the desperate people argument from earlier but... well, fits, doesnt it?

anyways, i also thought i did something wrong when the laser first hit me, but no load option came so i knew it was intended. but i learned from my mistake in arrival, and i tried it again a few times until i was sure i was ment to be hit. but then i was able to enjoy it.

about the ending. first i thought.. f. me, i should have played multiplayer. and f. them, for saying i get the good ending without it. but what gave me hope was the retake movement. i really enjoyed reading about it and i searched the news 3 or 4 times a day for mass effect ending related stuff. thats also when i found the idt. and at first i thought... could be. i dont like it, but its better then changing the last mission. cause contrary to what some might think, i really respect the artistical stuff and i would actually respect them less if they changed it. but i believe there is still another way out. and since im big fan of the insanity difficulty (without using medkids or reviving team mate - someone please recognize my hardcoryness), i dont like bioware to pick the easy way out either. and i trust them enough to know that they dont have to.

assuming of course, that they haven planned the indoctrination, but we all agree thats ridiculous, right?

wait, wait, just kidding. no need to ritualy sacrifice me to the threat creater.

First of all, thanks, but don't feel bad for me. I was far from relapse. 

And moving on, I think if Bioware handles this correctly, then they'd be doing the opposite of taking the easy way out. And they would gain my respect for "artistic integrity" for doing so (artistic integrity is a phrase that has been thrown around a lot by nay sayers on other forums, for example Kotaku, and I thought I'd use it in jest). I'm an artist myself (actually, my dream job would be to be a Concept Artist for Bioware, like Matt Rhodes and Ben Huen), and given my education and experience so far with the industry, changing the ending to make it better after an honest critique would exemplify artistic integrity more than clinging to it after those same critiques. 

Unfortunately, Bioware had to separate the honest critiques from the haters who gotta hate. This was even mentioned in Dr. Ray's statement. Jessica Merizan has linked to this thread on a couple occassions, and as a moderator and interested party (even if it is only independently), she is watching this thread. I hope that she helped point to some of the honest critiques hidden within this thread.

This only really goes for if Bioware hadn't planned on changing/clarifying the end with Indoctrination Theory (or something like it) beforehand. If they had, then it was all a part of the master plan, thus also retaining artistic integrity.

I trust Bioware to not take the easy way out and make the right decision as well. I personally think that Indoctrination Theory, or something like it, serves as a good middle ground.

[dfstone]

steve3194 wrote...

If IT turns out to have been their plan all along it would definitely be genius both story and business wise. Leave fans confused and left in suspense for weeks then release a post ending explaination or something along those lines. They won't be changing the ending though just adding too it that's what I understand from their twitter.

They shouldn't leave it too long to release the dlc though as I'd imagine people will become less passionate about it the longer it's drawn out.

Here's hoping we get it sooner rather than later

I don't think it would be genius.  It would be cheap.  Like the end of a tv show where the main char wakes up and it was all a dream.  Thats cheese.

[Dwailing]

ComradeNapoleon wrote...

Although, I will point out that Anderson says "I see a way across [the chasm]" at roughly the same time as you cross the bridge yourself, so...yeah.

Good point.

[nyrocron]

I don't think that it removes the overall feeling of something being up and the whole ending being "off".
But I think it is possible that BioWare intended that to be the explanation of Anderson's seemingly strange way to the center.

[palacios]

dude, if its been in the works, the DLC will be coming out soon. If BioWare got the idea from the fans, this ending wouldn't come out for while.
I find it hard believe that people dont think BioWare is capable of the Indoctrination theory. We got the idea of the IT from them. They gave us clues and we're interpreting them as best we can because we know the story continues.
ME universe will continue after ME3 so they wouldn't half-ass the conclusion of what is the end to the beginning of all of this.
The only reason why I think they have been waiting for release the true ending is because they have something huge planned that might involve more than just Shepard to be a part of the story. In the end, all the resources you have acquired are going to make a difference. Even the Multiplayer lets you promote a character from there into the SP. So, maybe a world event?

[Zuka999]

So, uh, has anyone figured out why the Reapers happily use the Geth and encourage them to attack organic civilization if their purpose is to stop synthetics from ending organic life?


Anyone?


...

[emagover]

i love this theory and i just can't wait until april >_< it's so intriguing.

that would be really cool if the real endings were on the disks already (as it was supposed earlier in this thread)! so, regarding different disk sizes on different platforms: is there definitely no way to see the contents of xbox and ps3 disks as it can be done on pc? i only played me3 on pc so i don't know, is that some closed format or what? i saw people ripping textures, sound and stuff from other xbox games, isn't that possible in case of me3? i guess comparing that content to pc disk would be enough to see if there's something more on the xbox/ps3 disk.

[n00bsauce2010]

palacios wrote...

dude, if its been in the works, the DLC will be coming out soon. If BioWare got the idea from the fans, this ending wouldn't come out for while.
I find it hard believe that people dont think BioWare is capable of the Indoctrination theory. We got the idea of the IT from them. They gave us clues and we're interpreting them as best we can because we know the story continues.
ME universe will continue after ME3 so they wouldn't half-ass the conclusion of what is the end to the beginning of all of this.
The only reason why I think they have been waiting for release the true ending is because they have something huge planned that might involve more than just Shepard to be a part of the story. In the end, all the resources you have acquired are going to make a difference. Even the Multiplayer lets you promote a character from there into the SP. So, maybe a world event?

Good point. Believe me if the dlc comes out in a month or two.. it's confirmation they planned it. If it was the case Then they wouldn't be announcing/releasing dlc for a long long time like you've just said. It took them close to two months just to finish up from-ashes and get it on the store for day 1.

[Kyzee]

 So, a couple of things that I noticed/crossed my mind during my most recent playthrough:

(1) People have mentioned the return of Shepard's scars post beam attack. Well, evidently gender makes a difference on whether or not this happen (if you're a Paragon--can't report otherwise)! They showed up on my maleShep, but not my FemShep. I'm guessing that it's due to a carryover in coding from the default male Shep we saw in the demo, and the developers didn't catch it. Because otherwise . . . wtf? 

Does this happen to the default FemShep as well?

(2) Speaking of all the familiar aspects of the final part of the Citadel, during my first playthrough, when I got to the platform with the control panel, I immediately thought of TIM's room (orange tint, solitary figure in the middle . . .) In fact, I actually thought TIM was there, and I was going to be facing off against him. I was . . . puzzled, needless to say.

(3) People have also mentioned how different TIM looks in the final scene vs. his appearance throughout the rest of the game as evidence of how the scene must be a hallucination. Well, during the very first conversation you have with TIM on Mars, when the camera shows TIM himself in his room and not via the hologram, there is a dark line on the side of his face which looks like the beginnings of his transformation into his final appearance. This could've been disguised in the hologram. Also, that is the ONLY TIME we see TIM directly until the end of the game. Otherwise it's via hologram, or his face isn't shown. Again, this is something I noticed during my first playthrough. Said procedure could also potentially explain the powers TIM then has to control Shepard and Anderson (and yes, I say that with a HUGE amount of skepticism.)

Why do I, a supporter of IT, bring this up? Well, for one, it's something to consider, and I refuse to put blinders on (would be a wee bit hypocritical, given my stance on things in this forum). But moreover, it does raise questions as to when the indoctrination sequence could've actually begun, i.e. when Shepard falls unconscious on the Citadel vs. after Harbinger's attack.

Of course, it doesn't address the numerous other issues that arise after Harbinger's attack, hence my skepticism. But hey, I loves me some theorizing and debating! :happy:

(4) And finally, just for sh*ts and giggles, I was wondering if there's a recording anywhere that separates the Star Child's voice into its three components? I'm curious to hear Mark Meer's and Jennifer Hale's deliveries of their dialogue. Could be telling; could not. Would be neat in any event.

Now no more fighting, everyone! 

EDIT: stupid typos . . .

Modifié par Kyzee, 27 mars 2012 - 11:41 .

[spz123]

dfstone wrote...



I don't think it would be genius.  It would be cheap.  Like the end of a tv show where the main char wakes up and it was all a dream.  Thats cheese.

If it was merely a dream I would be the first to call it a pile of crap. However, indoctrination is part of the lore of the series and if it was planned was foreshadowed brilliantly.

Not so keen on the thought of most likely having to pay extra for the ending but thats another story.

[n00bsauce2010]

Zuka999 wrote...

So, uh, has anyone figured out why the Reapers happily use the Geth and encourage them to attack organic civilization if their purpose is to stop synthetics from ending organic life?


Anyone?


...

Exactly man. Its a raving question. It's why the IT loves to ask about Catalyst Kids circular logic.

"I created the reapers so they will stop organics from creating synthetics every 50,000 years by killing the organics so they don't create synthetics who will always rebel against organics creating chaos"

Huh? if you didn't question that to some point then idn wtf is up.

The kid ignores the fact that the geth do not wish to hurt organics near as much as they want to defend themselves and be considered a diverse people with free will. They stopped the last quarians from being wiped out because they were not a threat. The child is ignoring the fact that the quarian/geth peace treaty is working against the reapers right in front of catalyst kids face. He's also ignoring EDI.. who was once a rogue AI and has sworn herself to protect the common good of humanity.

[emagover]

Kyzee wrote...

(1) People have mentioned the return of Shepard's scars post beam attack. Well, evidently gender makes a difference on whether or not this happen (if you're a Paragon--can't report otherwise)! They showed up on my maleShep, but not my FemShep. I'm guessing that it's due to a carryover in coding from the default male Shep we saw in the demo, and the developers didn't catch it. Because otherwise . . . wtf? 

Does this happen to the default FemShep as well?

scars returned on my femshep:huh: though she is not default. i thought it was a bug but... '

[byne]

So, at the second part of the Battle of Earth, after saying goodbye to my squad, but before reaching the beam.

I heard two random marines on the radio talking about how strong the Reaper forces were, then another marine cut in to say

"Cut the chatter! You heard the Admiral! No retreat!"

Seems kinda odd that they'd order a retreat after you get taken down by Harbinger if the original order was no retreat no matter what.

[waldstr18]

you guys are saying that shepard doesnt weare her armor in the "dream squence" right? but actually she does. if you go to to the squad menu, you can clearly see her wearing it. its just a little burned. ok, maybe a lot, but its her armor none the less.

maybe this has already been said. in that case, nevermind.

[ComradeNapoleon]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

So, uh, has anyone figured out why the Reapers happily use the Geth and encourage them to attack organic civilization if their purpose is to stop synthetics from ending organic life?


Anyone?


...

Exactly man. Its a raving question. It's why the IT loves to ask about Catalyst Kids circular logic.

"I created the reapers so they will stop organics from creating synthetics every 50,000 years by killing the organics so they don't create synthetics who will always rebel against organics creating chaos"

Huh? if you didn't question that to some point then idn wtf is up.

The kid ignores the fact that the geth do not wish to hurt organics near as much as they want to defend themselves and be considered a diverse people with free will. They stopped the last quarians from being wiped out because they were not a threat. The child is ignoring the fact that the quarian/geth peace treaty is working against the reapers right in front of catalyst kids face. He's also ignoring EDI.. who was once a rogue AI and has sworn herself to protect the common good of humanity.

Ya, that's such a huge hint that the star-child is full of bull****.

I mean, "The created always rebel against the creators"? Well, the geth didn't really rebel - they probably would have lived alongside the quarians in peace if the quarians hadn't tried to kill them all. A more pertinent point is: what about the reapers? You created them kid, when are they going to bite you in the arse? Of course, the "us" he keeps using suggests that it's a manifestation of one, not their creator. Anyways.

[ComradeNapoleon]

waldstr18 wrote...

you guys are saying that shepard doesnt weare her armor in the "dream squence" right? but actually she does. if you go to to the squad menu, you can clearly see her wearing it. its just a little burned. ok, maybe a lot, but its her armor none the less.

maybe this has already been said. in that case, nevermind.

Nobody says she doesn't wear armour, they say two things:

1. She wears different armour (it's burned N7 armour, not custom armour, although I admit this may be for convenience)

2. Certain neat portions of her armour are burned off

[waldstr18]

i want to know what up with the keepers. no one explained anything about them.

i bet they were the masterminds behind all this.