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[n00bsauce2010]

Lot of stuff i never noticed or heard brought up. Thanks.

Question: What are the notes near the control and destroy consoles?

[WebFoo]

bredmo wrote...

- Anderson rests against a raised platform before he dies. That platform did not exist in previous scenes

WTF???^^^^^^ I just watched it, where'd it come from?

Oh yeah, I noticed that too... my mind in trying to explain it just sort of thought "well maybe it just happened to pop up out of the ground when we weren't looking..."  - but yeah, weird.  Maybe just a convenience.

[savagejuicebox]

Kill-Joy wrote...

A few things I just noticed after replaying the end (inspired by this)
- The 1M1 from the walkway before the control room magically transports itself to the Crucible firing spot. You see it as you talk to the god child. The 1M1 is bathed in red light.

- There are multiple keepers in the area where you appear, just minding their own business. One of them appears to be pressing buttons on a non-existent console

- There is no way the Reapers would have had time to gather such an extreme number of dead people to create the large piles of bodies, and the waterfall of blood

- There are no alien corpses anywhere on the Citadel

- The "firing area" is right in the middle of the Citadel. This would mean that the "blue" and "red" ending triggers have been missed by Citadel races all along. If I saw a huge conduit and a spot that looks like a laser lens, I would investigate. Besides, isn't the central part The Presidium? As in, where the Council would meet?

- Anderson rests against a raised platform before he dies. That platform did not exist in previous scenes

- There are indocrination whispers heard throughout the "Anderson Dies/Hackett contact" sequence They seem to start with Anderson dying.

- Admiral Hackett regains clear communication with Shepard long enough to rouse him. He then magically stops talking, despite having heard a response from Shepard. Logically, Hackett would be able to hear the Godchild conversation.

- The "come back to life" sequence has wind. Citadel, while having artificial gravity and air, had no blowing wind. The area in front of the teleportation beam, however, really did.

- The three "husketeers" and the Marauder are a token defense. This area is supposed to be completely overrun by the Reapers

- Right before the alleged "dream sequence", Shepard engages the Harbinger. This could be significant, as Harbinger is the one with the interest to indocrinate Shepard in the first place. This is otherwise a huge coincidence.

- The casualties before the beam are all dead or dying... in one piece. Nobody has burned armor. Considering the Reaper beam is shown to completely destroy everything it touches, and leave deep marks in the ground, it's unlikely people would be slowly bleeding out after being hit by one.

- Shepard bleeds on and off during the sequence. He is drenched in blood when Anderson dies to a point of it being slick and shiny, and it suddenly dissapears when the Godchild appears

- Somebody mentioned the angelic note before the Destroy conduit. The Control ending also contains a note, and it is a very ominous one. The Synthesis one has no note at all.

- There are anti-indocrination Reaper growls heard, similar to the "child growl" in the beginning of the game when Anderson counteracts TIM in the TIM showdown

Lastly, the 15gb vs 10gb is understandable as both discs seem to contain most of the game. Only SPECIFIC missions require you to change discs. Multiplayer, the Citadel, and most of the game can be played from either disc. That means that each disc contains something like 70% of the game, with some independent content.


Hope this helps folks.

Kill-Joy? More like create Joy!! Thanks for pointing this out! i had never noticed how that platform showed up .

[Vahilor]

*Shepards bleeding stops without a trace as he reaches the crucible*
Hmm, yeah, but action movies constantly have heroes ignoring significant wounds when it's convenient for the plot

I think they did it with a purpuse, cause why do they shortly before the rising to the crucible zoom to Sheps hand covers in fresh shiny blood ? He even didn't bleed that much before shooting Anderson.

You can't tell me they removed the blood later on cause "Action heros" do not bleed...or stop bleeding..
Probably you should watch some more serious movies... cause I can name a lot were the so called hero dies or faints cause of blood loss.

Modifié par Vahilor, 28 mars 2012 - 06:07 .

[Kill-Joy]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Lot of stuff i never noticed or heard brought up. Thanks.

Question: What are the notes near the control and destroy consoles?

When I say "note" I mean sound note. Like a musical note.
The "red" ending has a positive note, often used in "the hero ascends" or "ressurection after victory". According to my girlfriend who knows music, this is an Octave.

The "blue" ending has a warning note, often used in a dramatic reveal of villainous plans. According to my girlfriend who knows music, this is a Minor Second, or some sort of a Minor Interval.

[NotAnotherDisplayName]

More devil's advocacy...

*- There are multiple keepers in the area where you appear, just minding their own business. One of them appears to be pressing buttons on a non-existent console*
Right, which could be an oversight of the level design or not.  the fact there are keepers there reinforces the fact that the little buggers were owned by the reapers ages ago and were what kept the citadel (the giant reaper invasion point) running.

*- There is no way the Reapers would have had time to gather such an extreme number of dead people to create the large piles of bodies, and the waterfall of blood*
How long has the citadel been over earth- how long did it take you to get back?  They wiped out planets in days, I'm betting they could process a lot of people pretty quickly

*There are no alien corpses anywhere on the Citadel*
Remember ME2, for whatever reason they wanted to make dreadnaughts out of *humans*- you don't see turian shaped reapers, but you see (unfortunately) the man-shaped one.  If they are in fact processing humans to create a reaper again on the citadel (which, btw, makes NO sense to me) then why would they have any other aliens in your cargo area?

*The "firing area" is right in the middle of the Citadel. This would mean that the "blue" and "red" ending triggers have been missed by Citadel races all along. If I saw a huge conduit and a spot that looks like a laser lens, I would investigate. Besides, isn't the central part The Presidium? As in, where the Council would meet?*
Yeah, but through all 3 games they mention how there are whole areas of the citadel you can't go, and don't understand.  ME1 talks about a central core to the central spire that is impenetrable- no one knows where the keepers come from, when they die or break they're replaced, and think they might come from there.  For whatever reason the council races are content to leave vast areas of the citadel unexplored.

*Anderson rests against a raised platform before he dies. That platform did not exist in previous scenes*
Right, but for him to sit up and talk to you there had to be something there.  A lot of this seems like rearannging the scene to make it convenient.

*There are indocrination whispers heard throughout the "Anderson Dies/Hackett contact" sequence They seem to start with Anderson dying.*
What is an indoctrination whisper?

*Admiral Hackett regains clear communication with Shepard long enough to rouse him. He then magically stops talking, despite having heard a response from Shepard. Logically, Hackett would be able to hear the Godchild conversation.*
That all depeneds on how the comms work, I don't think he had him on speaker, and hackett was trying to organize a giant space battle, and having Hackett yell at you the whole time would be annoying.

*The "come back to life" sequence has wind. Citadel, while having artificial gravity and air, had no blowing wind. The area in front of the teleportation beam, however, really did.*
Of all the things that feel wierd to me, the fact that you live in one, and in a very specific way, is what says 'something is up' more than any other bit of the theory.  Why does he live, and why only if he chooses destroy, and why only if his EMS is super high (well, because you have to do the most to get the best ending, but still)

*The three "husketeers" and the Marauder are a token defense. This area is supposed to be completely overrun by the Reapers*
You're bleeding and walking in slow motion, if it was overrun by reapers you'd die.  In order for you to make a dramatic entrance to the beam the designers couldn't put a whole army of reapers in front of you, but if you put 4 of them it feels like you're still there.

*Right before the alleged "dream sequence", Shepard engages the Harbinger.*
How so?

*The casualties before the beam are all dead or dying... in one piece. Nobody has burned armor.*
Right, or it could be just a cinematic, I'm not sure this strongly supports it, as creating all those extra character models is not especially cheap, nor is it obvious for people to pick up on.  Certain thematic bits of the game definitely, I think, support IT, but I'm not sure I'd count this one with it.

*Shepard bleeds on and off during the sequence. He is drenched in blood when Anderson dies to a point of it being slick and shiny, and it suddenly dissapears when the Godchild appears*
Right, but again, action movies do this all the time and so do video games- the main character can be shown struggling, but when he has to be better than the average person there is no problem.

[NotAnotherDisplayName]

Vahilor wrote...

*Shepards bleeding stops without a trace as he reaches the crucible*
Hmm, yeah, but action movies constantly have heroes ignoring significant wounds when it's convenient for the plot

I think they did it with a purpuse, cause why do they shortly before the rising to the crucible zoom to Sheps hand covers in fresh shiny blood ? He even didn't bleed that much before shooting Anderson.

You can't tell me they removed the blood later on cause "Action heros" do not bleed...or stop bleeding..
Probably you should watch some more serious movies... cause I can name a lot were the so called hero dies or faints cause of blood loss.

Right, and that's fine, I'm just saying that the fact that his bleeding changes through the ending is not really substantial evidence of indoctrination theory, or that the sequence was a dream.  When he's talking to the kid he's crouched, slumped.  When he moves to the platforms he moves slowly, still limping, until you engage the cinematic, in which case he (or she) give a final burst of energy to complete the task.  What blood are we looking for here?  Him to be oozing the whole time?  He looks like he was hit by a truck, he completes his task and watches his CO die, then notices he's bleeding a ton.  Then he crawls his way to the console and essentially passes out from blood loss.  Then the freaky kid wakes him up (by either shouting at him to wake up or questioning him) and you're at the end game. 

What does a change in blood flow show us?

[NotAnotherDisplayName]

Kill-Joy wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Lot of stuff i never noticed or heard brought up. Thanks.

Question: What are the notes near the control and destroy consoles?

When I say "note" I mean sound note. Like a musical note.
The "red" ending has a positive note, often used in "the hero ascends" or "ressurection after victory". According to my girlfriend who knows music, this is an Octave.

The "blue" ending has a warning note, often used in a dramatic reveal of villainous plans. According to my girlfriend who knows music, this is a Minor Second, or some sort of a Minor Interval.

This btw, is a pretty sweet find.  Even if it's not IT, the way it's presented and how subtle it is is a pretty neat thing.

[Vahilor]

NotAnotherDisplayName wrote...

More devil's advocacy...

*- There are multiple keepers in the area where you appear, just minding their own business. One of them appears to be pressing buttons on a non-existent console*
Right, which could be an oversight of the level design or not.  the fact there are keepers there reinforces the fact that the little buggers were owned by the reapers ages ago and were what kept the citadel (the giant reaper invasion point) running.

*- There is no way the Reapers would have had time to gather such an extreme number of dead people to create the large piles of bodies, and the waterfall of blood*
How long has the citadel been over earth- how long did it take you to get back?  They wiped out planets in days, I'm betting they could process a lot of people pretty quickly

*There are no alien corpses anywhere on the Citadel*
Remember ME2, for whatever reason they wanted to make dreadnaughts out of *humans*- you don't see turian shaped reapers, but you see (unfortunately) the man-shaped one.  If they are in fact processing humans to create a reaper again on the citadel (which, btw, makes NO sense to me) then why would they have any other aliens in your cargo area?

*The "firing area" is right in the middle of the Citadel. This would mean that the "blue" and "red" ending triggers have been missed by Citadel races all along. If I saw a huge conduit and a spot that looks like a laser lens, I would investigate. Besides, isn't the central part The Presidium? As in, where the Council would meet?*
Yeah, but through all 3 games they mention how there are whole areas of the citadel you can't go, and don't understand.  ME1 talks about a central core to the central spire that is impenetrable- no one knows where the keepers come from, when they die or break they're replaced, and think they might come from there.  For whatever reason the council races are content to leave vast areas of the citadel unexplored.

*Anderson rests against a raised platform before he dies. That platform did not exist in previous scenes*
Right, but for him to sit up and talk to you there had to be something there.  A lot of this seems like rearannging the scene to make it convenient.

*There are indocrination whispers heard throughout the "Anderson Dies/Hackett contact" sequence They seem to start with Anderson dying.*
What is an indoctrination whisper?

*Admiral Hackett regains clear communication with Shepard long enough to rouse him. He then magically stops talking, despite having heard a response from Shepard. Logically, Hackett would be able to hear the Godchild conversation.*
That all depeneds on how the comms work, I don't think he had him on speaker, and hackett was trying to organize a giant space battle, and having Hackett yell at you the whole time would be annoying.

*The "come back to life" sequence has wind. Citadel, while having artificial gravity and air, had no blowing wind. The area in front of the teleportation beam, however, really did.*
Of all the things that feel wierd to me, the fact that you live in one, and in a very specific way, is what says 'something is up' more than any other bit of the theory.  Why does he live, and why only if he chooses destroy, and why only if his EMS is super high (well, because you have to do the most to get the best ending, but still)

*The three "husketeers" and the Marauder are a token defense. This area is supposed to be completely overrun by the Reapers*
You're bleeding and walking in slow motion, if it was overrun by reapers you'd die.  In order for you to make a dramatic entrance to the beam the designers couldn't put a whole army of reapers in front of you, but if you put 4 of them it feels like you're still there.

*Right before the alleged "dream sequence", Shepard engages the Harbinger.*
How so?

*The casualties before the beam are all dead or dying... in one piece. Nobody has burned armor.*
Right, or it could be just a cinematic, I'm not sure this strongly supports it, as creating all those extra character models is not especially cheap, nor is it obvious for people to pick up on.  Certain thematic bits of the game definitely, I think, support IT, but I'm not sure I'd count this one with it.

*Shepard bleeds on and off during the sequence. He is drenched in blood when Anderson dies to a point of it being slick and shiny, and it suddenly dissapears when the Godchild appears*
Right, but again, action movies do this all the time and so do video games- the main character can be shown struggling, but when he has to be better than the average person there is no problem.

I have the impression you want to explain most of your comments with "Cinematic Dramatic".. that doesn't work.. would Peter Jackson have made that much mistakes and totaly unlogical designes/scenes in his "Lord of the Rings" movies, people would have been dissappointed the same way...
Or it would be like "Darth Vader slices the hand of luke of with his light saber.. and then cut, new scene and now luke has his hand back.. as it had never been sliced off.... "

[oblique9]

Has anybody brought up the labels on the structure supports in the Citadel when Shep is walking towards the console at the end are labeled "1M1" - is there any significance to be had on this?

[OblivionDawn]

But uh... yeah. No one really believes this theory is true, right?

I mean, clearly Bioware didn't have this in mind. They created a canon ending which they thought would be awesome, and it just turned out to suck.

[Kill-Joy]

I'll bite  A few of those relate to "dramatic settings" and "level design". Bioware has NOT skimped on those in the past. When a character is injured, it is explored. Settings are thorough. I think it's unlikely that it was simplified by rushing it.

//////////////////////
More devil's advocacy...

*- There are multiple keepers in the area where you appear, just minding their own business. One of them appears to be pressing buttons on a non-existent console*
Right, which could be an oversight of the level design or not.  the fact there are keepers there reinforces the fact that the little buggers were owned by the reapers ages ago and were what kept the citadel (the giant reaper invasion point) running.

--> Mostly, see above. Not an important point.

*- There is no way the Reapers would have had time to gather such an extreme number of dead people to create the large piles of bodies, and the waterfall of blood*
How long has the citadel been over earth- how long did it take you to get back?  They wiped out planets in days, I'm betting they could process a lot of people pretty quickly

--> From what I gather, at most 1-3 days. Illusive Man appears to have left shortly before you arrive at the Cerberus HQ, and from there you go straight to Earth

*There are no alien corpses anywhere on the Citadel*
Remember ME2, for whatever reason they wanted to make dreadnaughts out of *humans*- you don't see turian shaped reapers, but you see (unfortunately) the man-shaped one.  If they are in fact processing humans to create a reaper again on the citadel (which, btw, makes NO sense to me) then why would they have any other aliens in your cargo area?

--> There were thousands of persons on the Citadel. Where did the non-humans go?

*The "firing area" is right in the middle of the Citadel. This would mean that the "blue" and "red" ending triggers have been missed by Citadel races all along. If I saw a huge conduit and a spot that looks like a laser lens, I would investigate. Besides, isn't the central part The Presidium? As in, where the Council would meet?*
Yeah, but through all 3 games they mention how there are whole areas of the citadel you can't go, and don't understand.  ME1 talks about a central core to the central spire that is impenetrable- no one knows where the keepers come from, when they die or break they're replaced, and think they might come from there.  For whatever reason the council races are content to leave vast areas of the citadel unexplored.

--> Nice, I don't remember the central core discussion.

*Anderson rests against a raised platform before he dies. That platform did not exist in previous scenes*
Right, but for him to sit up and talk to you there had to be something there.  A lot of this seems like rearannging the scene to make it convenient.

--> See the header note

*There are indocrination whispers heard throughout the "Anderson Dies/Hackett contact" sequence They seem to start with Anderson dying.*
What is an indoctrination whisper?

--> There are "whispers" present when indocrination is occuring. They are heard during the black frame scenes in the conversation with TIM, as well as throughout other parts of the game. I believe the same whispers are heard during the various nightmares. I had to turn the sound way up to hear them, but they are there. They go away when Hackett speaks

*Admiral Hackett regains clear communication with Shepard long enough to rouse him. He then magically stops talking, despite having heard a response from Shepard. Logically, Hackett would be able to hear the Godchild conversation.*
That all depeneds on how the comms work, I don't think he had him on speaker, and hackett was trying to organize a giant space battle, and having Hackett yell at you the whole time would be annoying.

--> This would be Shepard's personal comm, it appears. My reaction would be "SHEPARD! ARE YOU ALIVE! CAN YOU DO ANYTHING" as opposed to "..."

*The "come back to life" sequence has wind. Citadel, while having artificial gravity and air, had no blowing wind. The area in front of the teleportation beam, however, really did.*
Of all the things that feel wierd to me, the fact that you live in one, and in a very specific way, is what says 'something is up' more than any other bit of the theory.  Why does he live, and why only if he chooses destroy, and why only if his EMS is super high (well, because you have to do the most to get the best ending, but still)

--> This one may be important. The EMS requirement for the "Shepard Lives" ending is the same as the requirement for the Synthesis ending (4000/5000 depending on Anderson). Not a coincidence, if IDT is correct

*The three "husketeers" and the Marauder are a token defense. This area is supposed to be completely overrun by the Reapers*
You're bleeding and walking in slow motion, if it was overrun by reapers you'd die.  In order for you to make a dramatic entrance to the beam the designers couldn't put a whole army of reapers in front of you, but if you put 4 of them it feels like you're still there.

--> See top header. Within IDT, this would be more of a dramatic event to convince Shepard everything is okay. It makes no sense within the "reapers overwhelm with superior numbers" universe.

*Right before the alleged "dream sequence", Shepard engages the Harbinger.*
How so?

--> The Reaper that lands and shoots has glowing eyes. I have gotten the impression, and read from others, that this marks that reaper as Harbinger

*The casualties before the beam are all dead or dying... in one piece. Nobody has burned armor.*
Right, or it could be just a cinematic, I'm not sure this strongly supports it, as creating all those extra character models is not especially cheap, nor is it obvious for people to pick up on.  Certain thematic bits of the game definitely, I think, support IT, but I'm not sure I'd count this one with it.

--> Same as Husketeers point, and Header point. It makes no sense for Bioware to slack now. It also makes sense if it's to make everything feel more dramatic to Shepard - again, within the IDT framework

*Shepard bleeds on and off during the sequence. He is drenched in blood when Anderson dies to a point of it being slick and shiny, and it suddenly dissapears when the Godchild appears*
Right, but again, action movies do this all the time and so do video games- the main character can be shown struggling, but when he has to be better than the average person there is no problem.

--> Header. Bioware is usually good at dramatic events.
/////////////

[Hunter_Wolf]

oblique9 wrote...

Has anybody brought up the labels on the structure supports in the Citadel when Shep is walking towards the console at the end are labeled "1M1" - is there any significance to be had on this?

It's old news but so far nobody has found significance other than it being human.

[NotAnotherDisplayName]

Vahilor wrote...

I have the impression you want to explain most of your comments with "Cinematic Dramatic".. that doesn't work.. would Peter Jackson have made that much mistakes and totaly unlogical designes/scenes in his "Lord of the Rings" movies, people would have been dissappointed the same way...
Or it would be like "Darth Vader slices the hand of luke of with his light saber.. and then cut, new scene and now luke has his hand back.. as it had never been sliced off.... "

And some of them are.  But a bleeding wound that stops obviously bleeding while he runs up to shoot/grab/jump really doesn't strike me as a giant plot point.  Nor does a place for Anderson to sit.  There are plenty of things in the overall suggestion of the theory that actually do make sense to me, and are hard to ignore, but little things like this I just don't see as real strong evidence.

[Hunter_Wolf]

Him bleeding, stopping, and bleeding again isn't what drew out my curiosity. It was that Shepard entered the Citadel holding at his right side only to later cover up his left and reveal a rather fresh wound. The game makes it a point to even focus specifically on his hand now covered in his blood. The only event that took place of course was TIM forcing Shepard to shoot Anderson.

So that begs the question, what is the significance there?

[Kill-Joy]

I wasn't pointing out "This All Proves IDT"

I just replayed the ending, and wanted to point out the small nagging things I've found

[Vahilor]

I wouldn't say anything it ther was not that camera shot directly showing that Shep now is bleeding very hard on the left side.. the same side he shot Anderson.. but they really point out that bleeding like they wanna show somthing to us.

If you watch the six sense they use a "We show you the bleeding of Bruce Willis very clear" also to give us a big Slap in the face hint.

Modifié par Vahilor, 28 mars 2012 - 06:40 .

[Chaosbrain]

Good morning from Austria
Any news I missed since yesterday?

[azile0]

OblivionDawn wrote...

But uh... yeah. No one really believes this theory is true, right?

I mean, clearly Bioware didn't have this in mind. They created a canon ending which they thought would be awesome, and it just turned out to suck.

We realize that. BioWare really FUBAR'd the ending. We're just trying to make it suck less in our heads.

[JTP117]

OblivionDawn wrote...

But uh... yeah. No one really believes this theory is true, right?

I mean, clearly Bioware didn't have this in mind. They created a canon ending which they thought would be awesome, and it just turned out to suck.

State your evidence sir.

[OblivionDawn]

azile0 wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

But uh... yeah. No one really believes this theory is true, right?

I mean, clearly Bioware didn't have this in mind. They created a canon ending which they thought would be awesome, and it just turned out to suck.

We realize that. BioWare really FUBAR'd the ending. We're just trying to make it suck less in our heads.

Oh, so it's like professional wrestling. Everyone knows its fake, but they don't talk about that because that would ruin it.

I can understand that.

[JTP117]

azile0 wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

But uh... yeah. No one really believes this theory is true, right?

I mean, clearly Bioware didn't have this in mind. They created a canon ending which they thought would be awesome, and it just turned out to suck.

We realize that. BioWare really FUBAR'd the ending. We're just trying to make it suck less in our heads.

I believe it, studying forensics always taught me to follow the evidence, not the statement's provided. That's what we are doing here and it's brought up many things that support the theory. Now all we must do is wait and see what we got right and what we got wrong.

[Lyria]

oblique9 wrote...

Has anybody brought up the labels on the structure supports in the Citadel when Shep is walking towards the console at the end are labeled "1M1" - is there any significance to be had on this?

Between post 840 and 927 someone posted that 1m1 could be a representation of a formula for Convergence.

Doesn't EDI talk about convergence? In that whole there's a reality that exists where the physics are so different that 1+1=3?

Or its

[zakaryzb]

azile0 wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

But uh... yeah. No one really believes this theory is true, right?

I mean, clearly Bioware didn't have this in mind. They created a canon ending which they thought would be awesome, and it just turned out to suck.

We realize that. BioWare really FUBAR'd the ending. We're just trying to make it suck less in our heads.

I think it might be real...

[Ilzairspar]

So just thought of something concerning this possible future patch/dlc etc.. that we've been discussing. Do you think that instead of a time stamp (which is what many have been speculating) it is a server completion stamp? I mean EA is tracking us, and actually knows how many of us have completed the game so far. Perhaps there is a patch/dlc that is set to release after a certain number of people complete the game. or perhaps it's a certain % of people.

Don't know if that makes any sense, but it's 2 am over in Illinois and I'm suppose to be asleep right now. Making sense is really not high on my list of priorities atm.