57139 réponses à ce sujet

[xZBx]

Yeah I thought about what that Reaper Destroyer said: "Resist." Ambiguous in nature...A case could be built for either side of the debate, here's to hoping it's IT.

[Chaosbrain]

Just found something on twitter... Don't know if it's already posted but I thought it would be nice to see
EDIT: doesn't seem to work atm...crappy laptop.. I'm posting the link instead
https://twitter.com/...092874986631168

Modifié par Chaosbrain, 28 mars 2012 - 09:15 .

[Arian Dynas]

[quote]NotAnotherDisplayName wrote...

[quote]Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Lots of stuff here.

[/quote]

Arian Dynas writes...
Let me refute you one chunk at a time.

[quote]NotAnotherDisplayName wrote...
You know something always felt off about the whole harvesting thing.  Not sure what it was about.  And as a side note, the ME3 ending made me way less upset than seeing the 'human reaper' in 2.  The only good thing about that thing was I got to blow it up. /rant
[/quote] 

Bah.

[quote]NotAnotherDisplayName wrote...
I'm not sure a pulse cannon the size of the citadel couldn't so something pretty ginormous given the tech of the reapers being so far ahead of the rest of civilization.  It's just as hard to imagine them sending out a EMP or giant synthetic-death-ray across the galaxy.  Again, control seems to be the only one that makes sense given the current fiction explanations.  
[/quote] 

Once again, same argument, sufficently advanced tech is indistinguishable from magic, yes we heard it. The fact is, there is one, and ONLY one thing that Bioware has written basic physics about that was more than current scientific explanations, and that's EEZO, an they spend plenty of time defining it and it's limits. It's tech, indistinguishable from psychic powers or magic, but it's tech and has an explanation. The Crucible wave HAS no explanation. It's just suddenly there and gone.

[quote]NotAnotherDisplayName wrote...
I also disagree that making synthetic and organic into one dna being impossible or magical- if you're dealing with nanotechnology, what is to say that you don't have DNA with pieces replaced with little robots.  To boot, DNA is really just a collection of atoms, and atoms are a collection of protons, neutrons, and electrons, which in turn are collections of stuff like quarks, then our understanding breaks down.  If the Reapers (or their bosses) have mastered dark energy, what is stopping them from fully integrating with carbon based dna on a subatomic level?
[/quote] 

One, DNA is not subatomic. There is no "Carbon based DNA on a subatomic level" DNA is made of elements, made up from carbon and nitrogen atoms (among other things) Also, for the record, our current understanding is Cell-> Organelles-> DNA-> Protein chains-> Riboneuclieic acids-> Elements-> atoms-> subatomic particles-> quarks -> branes-> God telling you to ****** off.

But morever, to the important point here, ok, yeah, nanotech, something that is barely established, if at all in the Mass Effect setting, suddenly coming out of nowhere. Literally, in fact, explain for me how it is the nanobots would have been created? Where did they come from?
 
[quote]NotAnotherDisplayName wrote...
That however does bring me to a question that I can't answer at all- not whether or not it was possible, but assuming it is possible, why don't the Reapers just...synthesize?  If they can move in and wipe out the entire galaxy with megalasers, why can't they just synthesize whatever they want?  Were they waiting for the "right" dna pattern, in Shepard?  If that were the case, why not focus all your efforts on just catching him?  Maybe being a puny organic makes me not understand why you'd build a system that takes 100,000+ years to find a good candidate, in the mean time you spend all this energy eating organics.  You'd think if they were that smart they'd have a more clever selection committee.
[/quote] 

All assumptions, GIVE ME FACTS. And the fact HERE is, that the Catalyst defies and flies in the face of his own logic. Hence why, more than likely, and I venture into assumption here, that the Catalyst is in fact, Harbinger, playing with Shep's mind, and making himself appear more powerful than he is.

[quote]NotAnotherDisplayName wrote...
Though the kid does say the cruicible changed him, and opened up new possibilities.  How the eff that happened, well I've got nothing on that.[/quote]

Ayup. So nothing to say here.

Also, for the record? Yeah, "The Truth" has been debunked. But "The Rescue" is still a possiblity. But yeah, Mulder is wrong on this count, The Truth ain't out there.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 28 mars 2012 - 09:17 .

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Yeah you might want to rephrase that lol

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

NotAnotherDisplayName wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Sorry for the kinda late reply, but had to dig up the exact explanation of husk conversion. It took a bit longer since the most important part of describtion is actually not in codex entry, but rather is from the research logs on Sanctuary.

Basicly what converts a body into a husk are nanites that enter the body and remove the bodies water and minerals (kinda like a miniature harvesting process) and then replaces/rebuilds parts of the body with cybernetics which are activated by a electrical shock from the "Dragon Tooth."

Pulse Cannons are also entirely possible though unlikely in the scale we see in the ME3 ending, though again that is the ending the part where we also have Synthesis which I am arguing against and as such it aint exactly helping your argument to bring it up, since the Pulse part ties into the unrealistic stuff.

Synthesis as the god child explains it as mixing Synthetic and Organic into one DNA is impossible. Its like trying to make metal or stone grow by adding organic tissue. They are incompatible right down to the smallest level and can not be made into a single DNA.

You know something always felt off about the whole harvesting thing.  Not sure what it was about.  And as a side note, the ME3 ending made me way less upset than seeing the 'human reaper' in 2.  The only good thing about that thing was I got to blow it up. /rant

I'm not sure a pulse cannon the size of the citadel couldn't so something pretty ginormous given the tech of the reapers being so far ahead of the rest of civilization.  It's just as hard to imagine them sending out a EMP or giant synthetic-death-ray across the galaxy.  Again, control seems to be the only one that makes sense given the current fiction explanations. 

I also disagree that making synthetic and organic into one dna being impossible or magical- if you're dealing with nanotechnology, what is to say that you don't have DNA with pieces replaced with little robots.  To boot, DNA is really just a collection of atoms, and atoms are a collection of protons, neutrons, and electrons, which in turn are collections of stuff like quarks, then our understanding breaks down.  If the Reapers (or their bosses) have mastered dark energy, what is stopping them from fully integrating with carbon based dna on a subatomic level?

That however does bring me to a question that I can't answer at all- not whether or not it was possible, but assuming it is possible, why don't the Reapers just...synthesize?  If they can move in and wipe out the entire galaxy with megalasers, why can't they just synthesize whatever they want?  Were they waiting for the "right" dna pattern, in Shepard?  If that were the case, why not focus all your efforts on just catching him?  Maybe being a puny organic makes me not understand why you'd build a system that takes 100,000+ years to find a good candidate, in the mean time you spend all this energy eating organics.  You'd think if they were that smart they'd have a more clever selection committee.

Though the kid does say the cruicible changed him, and opened up new possibilities.  How the eff that happened, well I've got nothing on that.

Well even atoms cannot be combined at will. Not all atoms fit together with all others no matter hwo hard you might try, this is best exemplified with the noble gasses who dont interact with anything.

But beyond that even if we indulged the idea of tiny bits of metal, of synthetic material attaching itself to the DNA of a species it still would not make any sense and have litle purpose. It would just be slap of metal making a one time change like an implant does, it would not act and never could act like organic material does in such situations. It would not grow or multiply itself (unless we talk nanites and then we are allready away from the DNA part entirely)

Synthesis as described by the godchild is physically impossible from all we know within and outside the Mass effect universe.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 28 mars 2012 - 09:18 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Chaosbrain wrote...

Just found something on twitter... Don't know if it's already posted but I thought it would be nice to see
EDIT: doesn't seem to work atm...crappy laptop.. I'm posting the link instead
https://twitter.com/...092874986631168

"Really changes things, huh!"

I love Jessica

[Chaosbrain]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Chaosbrain wrote...

Just found something on twitter... Don't know if it's already posted but I thought it would be nice to see
EDIT: doesn't seem to work atm...crappy laptop.. I'm posting the link instead
https://twitter.com/...092874986631168

"Really changes things, huh!"

I love Jessica

Yeah she's just great

[JustAidan]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Well even atoms cannot be combined at will. Not all atoms fit together with all others no matter hwo hard you might try, this is best exemplified with the noble gasses who dont interact with anything.

*snipped other bits*

Actually there is chemistry that examines noble gasses that has started up in recent years, I don't actually study that branch myself so I can't give you more detail but it is something that is being explored. With regards to fitting together elements if you are just trying to combine two elements you are not likely to get anywhere. More complicated structures can allow for very strange combinations of elements and chemistry. These manner of effects are being examined for possible uses such as producing Oxygen and Hydrogen from Water. Producing O and H from water is actually straight forward and simply requires an intense applied potential to drive the reaction, for practical purposes this is rather uselss since it has a very high energy cost, far more than you would gain by using O and H as fuel sources. Instead current methods are examining complex structures that can produce H and O from H2O by photo-chemically driven thermodynamical neutral or favourable methods.

A lot of naturally occuring chemistry can be quite extraordinary, such as the current suggestion that photosynthesis makes use of quantum mechanical effects to reduce the energy cost or that human brains are also making use of similar effects, under more extreme conditions found in the less hospitable locations have produced very strange forms of life. Most of our day-to-day experiences don't really show this as most forms of life we encounter are pretty similar due to comparitive evolution, count how many animals you know that have ribcages for example.

Modifié par JustAidan, 28 mars 2012 - 09:45 .

[NotAnotherDisplayName]

Arian Dynas wrote...


Once again, same argument, sufficently advanced tech is indistinguishable from magic, yes we heard it. The fact is, there is one, and ONLY one thing that Bioware has written basic physics about that was more than current scientific explanations, and that's EEZO, an they spend plenty of time defining it and it's limits. It's tech, indistinguishable from psychic powers or magic, but it's tech and has an explanation. The Crucible wave HAS no explanation. It's just suddenly there and gone.

Right, the Crucible itself is an oddity, but I'm saying synthesis isn't alone in being some outlier here.  I'm also saying that in the end of the game it would be difficult to try and explain how it works to the player.  We encounter other things that seem odd, but they go on to explain them, which works in the main body of the game because we get an answer pre-dlc release .

Though the codex does say that they races don't know how it works, but they theorize it would use the mass relays to transmit itself, creating a weapon with effectively no range limits.

Arian Dynas wrote...
One, DNA is not subatomic. There is no "Carbon based DNA on a subatomic level" DNA is made of elements, made up from carbon and nitrogen atoms (among other things) Also, for the record, our current understanding is Cell-> Organelles-> DNA-> Protein chains-> Riboneuclieic acids-> Elements-> atoms-> subatomic particles-> quarks -> branes-> God telling you to ****** off.

Right, I get that, however if you can screw around at the atomic or subatomic level, what's to say you can't create things that would integrate into a DNA chain by messing under the covers.  Look, I'm not saying it's not a stretch, I'm saying that when the game goes 'no one undertstands reaper tech' and things like that, you've given yourself an out, especially when you've got a final cut scene that shows some new tech. 

Arian Dynas wrote...
But morever, to the important point here, ok, yeah, nanotech, something that is barely established, if at all in the Mass Effect setting, suddenly coming out of nowhere. Literally, in fact, explain for me how it is the nanobots would have been created? Where did they come from?

Want me to invent something because it's not that hard?  You've got living space ships in the form of reapers.  And they suggest time and time again about how advanced the reaper technology is, they imply that the victims of collection were 'dissasembled' if I recall correctly.  That said, I've not read much oustide the game.
 

Arian Dynas wrote...
All assumptions, GIVE ME FACTS. And the fact HERE is, that the Catalyst defies and flies in the face of his own logic. Hence why, more than likely, and I venture into assumption here, that the Catalyst is in fact, Harbinger, playing with Shep's mind, and making himself appear more powerful than he is.

I don't disagree that IDT or something similar isn't happening here, the point of my main response was that synthesis isn't impossible in a sci-fi universe, it's just as yet unexplained.  This was a side tangent that talked about the whole kid's retelling of the purpose of the pattern doesn't make sense.  The crucible and the catalyst (sans kid) isn't out of the realm of possibility in a sci fi world where you're fighting million year old robots that can park by black holes at will, create things like mass relays, and process and enslave organic races at will.  Whether or not Shepard is being screwed with?  Well something is definitely up or you'd not have all the wierd ending setups (even if there are only 3 choices, the arrangement of the choices I think is what's key)

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

JustAidan wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Well even atoms cannot be combined at will. Not all atoms fit together with all others no matter hwo hard you might try, this is best exemplified with the noble gasses who dont interact with anything.

*snipped other bits*

Actually there is chemistry that examines noble gasses that has started up in recent years, I don't actually study that branch myself so I can't give you more detail but it is something that is being explored. With regards to fitting together elements if you are just trying to combine two elements you are not likely to get anywhere. More complicated structures can allow for very strange combinations of elements and chemistry. These manner of effects are being examined for possible uses such as producing Oxygen and Hydrogen from Water. Producing O and H from water is actually straight forward and simply requires an intense applied potential to drive the reaction, for practical purposes this is rather uselss since it has a very high energy cost, far more than you would gain by using O and H as fuel sources. Instead current methods are examining complex structures that can produce H and O from H2O by photo-chemically driven thermodynamical neutral or favourable methods.

A lot of naturally occuring chemistry can be quite extraordinary, such as the current suggestion that photosynthesis makes use of quantum mechanical effects to reduce the energy cost or that human brains are also making use of similar effects, under more extreme conditions found in the less hospitable locations have produced very strange forms of life. Most of our day-to-day experiences don't really show this as most forms of life we encounter are pretty similar due to comparitive evolution, count how many animals you know that have ribcages for example.

Yeah okay, I was just going by my pretty basic understanding of it all

But still doesnt change the fact that Synthesis as described by the godchild is utterly impossible.

[ComradeNapoleon]

A little thing I noticed last night, but coudn't be bothered to say. Watch the cutscene before the run to the citadel - Anderson is using a Carnifex (i.e. the same gun you get on the citadel). Interesting no?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

NotAnotherDisplayName wrote...

Right, I get that, however if you can screw around at the atomic or subatomic level, what's to say you can't create things that would integrate into a DNA chain by messing under the covers.  Look, I'm not saying it's not a stretch, I'm saying that when the game goes 'no one undertstands reaper tech' and things like that, you've given yourself an out, especially when you've got a final cut scene that shows some new tech. 

No you have not given yourself a way out! While the Reaper is in large parts not understood by the races in the world almost all of their weapons and abilities have theories both within and outside the universe that supports them.

Best example is the Reapers main weapon, the Thanix cannon as it was dubbed after the Turians reverse engineered it from Sovreigns wreckage! This is not magic levels of technology for the races of Mass Effect or for us, it is simply Technology that is hard to grasp for them and they dont have a whole lot of way to study it. But given enough time they can get to an understanding of it and reverse engineer.

But Synthesis holds no water in universe or out of universe. As said even if you dont understand the technology in details you can still make theories of how they work, but no theory covers Synthesis! It is physically impossible without fundamentally changing our knowledge of how the world functions, it is essentailly Space magic and has no place in Science Fiction setting!

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 28 mars 2012 - 10:00 .

[kyg_20X6]

ComradeNapoleon wrote...

A little thing I noticed last night, but coudn't be bothered to say. Watch the cutscene before the run to the citadel - Anderson is using a Carnifex (i.e. the same gun you get on the citadel). Interesting no?

I noticed you pick up the Carnifex when you get up after the beam. Lose it again when you go up to the Citadel. Pick another one up from the ground (possibly the same gun). But then you seem to lose it again after you collapse near the console. I don't think it is in your hands at all when talking to the Catalyst but you magically have it back when you have to make a choice.

Also, interesting you point out that Anderson had the Carnifex but it's a Predator that TIM pulls out from behind Anderson. Hmm...

[Stigweird85]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

So, uh, has anyone figured out why the Reapers happily use the Geth and encourage them to attack organic civilization if their purpose is to stop synthetics from ending organic life?


Anyone?


...

Exactly man. Its a raving question. It's why the IT loves to ask about Catalyst Kids circular logic.

"I created the reapers so they will stop organics from creating synthetics every 50,000 years by killing the organics so they don't create synthetics who will always rebel against organics creating chaos"

Huh? if you didn't question that to some point then idn wtf is up.

The kid ignores the fact that the geth do not wish to hurt organics near as much as they want to defend themselves and be considered a diverse people with free will. They stopped the last quarians from being wiped out because they were not a threat. The child is ignoring the fact that the quarian/geth peace treaty is working against the reapers right in front of catalyst kids face. He's also ignoring EDI.. who was once a rogue AI and has sworn herself to protect the common good of humanity.

The reapers didn't use the Geth. Not really

In Mass Effect according to Saren the Geth viewed the reapers as Gods. It is established that the Geth also originally only attacked the quarians as response to the Quarians trying to wipe them out. The reapers then essentially converted the Geth when the Geth were being attacked again in Mass Effect 3. It was more an enemy or my enemy moment rather than cooperation.

[ZajoE38]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

ComradeNapoleon wrote...

A little thing I noticed last night, but coudn't be bothered to say. Watch the cutscene before the run to the citadel - Anderson is using a Carnifex (i.e. the same gun you get on the citadel). Interesting no?

I noticed you pick up the Carnifex when you get up after the beam. Lose it again when you go up to the Citadel. Pick another one up from the ground (possibly the same gun). But then you seem to lose it again after you collapse near the console. I don't think it is in your hands at all when talking to the Catalyst but you magically have it back when you have to make a choice.

Also, interesting you point out that Anderson had the Carnifex but it's a Predator that TIM pulls out from behind Anderson. Hmm...

It could be just oversight. Many times in cutscenes throughout the game, they are holding predator, or avenger. God, let's hope they'll release the ending DLC ASAP.

[Stigweird85]

protognosis wrote...

Playing around in the codex.
Noticed that there are Mass Relays that are dormant.
But Shepard has no knowledge of these as they aren't used and are powered down.
The only relays that are "destroyed" are the ones used in the games, which are the only o es Snepard has knowledge of.

I've mentioned that before, it could be used either way i.e. If endings stand then perhaps only active relays destroyed meaning there is hope for the future or as you said it is only the ones Shepard has visited or in the case of the arrival DLC destroyed.

[Spiderman_2028]

First post here- but I've been lurking all week long...(!)

If you choose the Quarians over the Geth on Rannoch- does the Destory option change at all? Seems to me if you are willing to write the Geth off at that point, telling you the destroy option will kill them wouldn't phase you at all... Especially since the Quarians Already wiped them out (or so I've read... I made them kiss and make up )

[Arian Dynas]

NotAnotherDisplayName wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...
INSERT A WHOLE LOT OF TWADDLE HERE

Dude, basically, what I am telling you is this, what we were presented with was at it's best, unexplained technobabble, something Mass Effect averts VERY hard, something randomly out of character for the writers and series.  

In short, it is an excersise in futility trying to explain it for the simple fact that it's a hallucination anyway, that also happens to violate a few key laws established in the ME universe. So, no matter how much technobabble you tack on, there is nothing to explain here and we're both just wasting our time speculating on THIS one.

[Zubi Fett]

Chaosbrain wrote...

Just found something on twitter... Don't know if it's already posted but I thought it would be nice to see
EDIT: doesn't seem to work atm...crappy laptop.. I'm posting the link instead
https://twitter.com/...092874986631168

And whos that? some one who works on Bioware?

[n00bsauce2010]

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

First post here- but I've been lurking all week long...(!)

If you choose the Quarians over the Geth on Rannoch- does the Destory option change at all? Seems to me if you are willing to write the Geth off at that point, telling you the destroy option will kill them wouldn't phase you at all... Especially since the Quarians Already wiped them out (or so I've read... I made them kiss and make up )

I've beaten the game once with letting the quarians die and once letting the geth die. The dialogue of the Catalyst kid is identical. But I never remember him mentioning the geth on either one. I couldn't make peace between them. I did a few things wrong in ME2 apparently. 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Zubi Fett wrote...

Chaosbrain wrote...

Just found something on twitter... Don't know if it's already posted but I thought it would be nice to see
EDIT: doesn't seem to work atm...crappy laptop.. I'm posting the link instead
https://twitter.com/...092874986631168

And whos that? some one who works on Bioware?

Jessica Merizan is a community manager at Bioware. She has been making vague comments like that one illuding towards something bigger since all of this started (and before If I am not mistaken) as well linking to this thread twice as answers to questions regarding the ending if I recall correctly.

[Stigweird85]

masster blaster wrote...

If you played the DLC Witch Hunt for DA:O Morrigen try's to tell you that there is a greater evil that is coming and goes through a portal that maybe just maybe will bring her to another world that which is Mass effect. I don't know why I said that but, I am just can't wait for what Bioware has to say about the ending on April the 6th.

Nice theory...

Off topic I was always annoyed that she never tunred in DA2 or was even mentioned. I expect big things in DA3 especially as I opted to have demon babies with her

[Zubi Fett]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Zubi Fett wrote...

Chaosbrain wrote...

Just found something on twitter... Don't know if it's already posted but I thought it would be nice to see
EDIT: doesn't seem to work atm...crappy laptop.. I'm posting the link instead
https://twitter.com/...092874986631168

And whos that? some one who works on Bioware?

Jessica Merizan is a community manager at Bioware(by this i mean with the devalop studio). She has been making vague comments like that one illuding towards something bigger since all of this started (and before If I am not mistaken) as well linking to this thread twice as answers to questions regarding the ending if I recall correctly.

Thank you for the answer.

But, do we know she has any "contact" with Bioware? If not, her comments will be irrelevant.

EDIT: I did read wrong, thought you say she was a moderator here(Dont know where i see that ROFL).

But i still i have a doubt, being community manager is the "Job" or part of the job. I mean, she can be a enviroment artis but also have the task of the community manager, or her job could be to be the community manager.

Hope i make the last part clear, looks like a mess!!!

Modifié par Zubi Fett, 28 mars 2012 - 11:10 .

[Martukis]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

First post here- but I've been lurking all week long...(!)

If you choose the Quarians over the Geth on Rannoch- does the Destory option change at all? Seems to me if you are willing to write the Geth off at that point, telling you the destroy option will kill them wouldn't phase you at all... Especially since the Quarians Already wiped them out (or so I've read... I made them kiss and make up )

I've beaten the game once with letting the quarians die and once letting the geth die. The dialogue of the Catalyst kid is identical. But I never remember him mentioning the geth on either one. I couldn't make peace between them. I did a few things wrong in ME2 apparently. 

 There is something of a four word difference - if you destroyed the geth, there isn't "and also the geth" added to the destroy dialogue. You can check http://mod.gib.me/ma...3/testdump2.txt for conditional dialogues, but I know from experience about that one, too. Hard to see any signfigance in that, and there doesn't seem to be any difference between destroying the quarians and making peace between geth and quarians, which seems strange.

 As to Jessica Merizan: She is a community manager, iirc, and she has been a kind and helpful voice, but has always insisted that her opinions/statements are NOT those of the devs, nor can/does she have insight into the specifics of the future plans for the Mass Effect universe - though she stopped talking much about Mass Effect on the twitte and forums, likely because people were taking her comments as gospel/canon truth and/or issues bioware may have had with that perception.

Modifié par Martukis, 28 mars 2012 - 11:12 .

[Stigweird85]

masster blaster wrote...

You also no what would be funny if Shepard found out that His father was your Gray warden from Dragon Age , and Shepard's mother is Morrigan.

I know this isn't about IT theory but I really am trying to just stay in there for Bioware's big speech about ME3 ending on April 6th.

Not as far fetched as you may think, remember Donovan had a statue of an ogre from DA in Kasumi's loyalty mission. Proof. Mass Effect 2 is nothing more than an illusion that you get after drinking darkspawn blood during the grey warden joining ceremony. 


Seriously though just an easter egg for fans