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[Thorwind]

Rifneno wrote...

Thorwind wrote...

Also I still can't figure out why the prothean VI on Cerberus base says he will share the info (about the Catalyst) because it's defenses have been hacked, I mean those defenses were in place only against indoctrinated people. If Shepard was not indoctrinated why would the VI chose those words...TIM was gone and KL was already looking after his teeth on the floor.

That would imply that Shepard was already indoctrinated, even if mildly but the VI would help him anyway because his defenses were down.


EDIT: damn typo...

I forget what I said to him to get him to say it, but he says he's programmed not to reveal what the catalyst is until the crucible has been completed.  He doesn't know the crucible is finished, so he shouldn't say what the catalyst is.  That's why he mentioned being hacked.

Oh!..ok, well there goes my wonderful part of a theory, thanks for the reply

[DreamTension]

bigstig wrote...

ChuckieJ wrote...

My new theory is below and I think I'm the first to present it. Or boy I hope I am.

Kroen135 wrote...

Yeah it was a huge slap in the face to me. Saw something earlier on this thread about "hidden files" and decided to look into it using my actual ME3 folder and using sources.

It's definately something fresh that can atleast be directed toward IT

So I tweeted @MassEffect because it is a genuine concern to me that people with minimal internet access be able to complete the game. With my theory you need to at least get online because of exactly what Kroen135 mentioned. The content needs to be unlocked. But how? Will it merely unlock on April 6th?

@masseffect I hope this content is easy for people in rural areas to get. Thanks for all your hard work here on the Twitters.

@chuckiej We hope to make any future content accessible to all players, thanks for your Tweets!

My theory:

Chris Priestly gave us the biggest clue of all.

We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. 

The number of people who have completed the game is the key. Much like Operation: Fortress, Bioware has the ability to capture information about the progress of online gamers playing the campaign (For Xbox, even if they don't have Xbox Live Gold they can still play connected to Live). The content is on the disc and will automatically (or semi-automatically) unlock once a certain number or percentage of players have completed the ending. A ping/short message will be sent to the game (or the game checks for one on launch) much like the one that popped up explaining Operation: Fortress. When the game receieves this message the content unlocks (or for the PC players, it downloads).

Now I definitely could be wrong about the "number or percentage of players" part but I think it would be pretty cool. The other option is to use the same method but unlock it immediately after the PAX panel (after which certainly enough people should have "experienced the game"). The point would be to avoid large downloads for players who might not be able to get them easily. As long as you can get online at all, you can get the content when everyone else does automatically.

Love the idea, my thought which I posted around 100pages I go I think(this thread moves fast)

At Pax a video montage of the final battle is shown, including Shepard breathing. At which point someone from behind crowd dressed as a character, Liara or the new guy(I can't remember his name at the moment) maybe even Edi (can't be any character who could be dead by this point) would yell. Wake Up it's time to take back Earth. Then screen that was showing ending flashes Priority: Take Back Earth.

Imagine the reaction that the annoucement would get, it would be huge

Dude...that....would be so awesome...can't get hopes up...so awesome though...no, they just screwed up....so cool if they planned this.

[Stigweird85]

Thorwind wrote...

Also I still can't figure out why the prothean VI on Cerberus base says he will share the info (about the Catalyst) because it's defenses have been hacked, I mean those defenses were in place only against indoctrinated people. If Shepard was not indoctrinated why would the VI chose those words...TIM was gone and KL was already looking after his teeth on the floor.

That would imply that Shepard was already indoctrinated, even if mildly but the VI would help him anyway because his defenses were down.


EDIT: damn typo...

I asked that a few(maybe 50) pages back.

I asked at what point does the VI activate it's defenses on Thessia?. Sure it happens just when Kai Ling appears but does that mean he was the one the set it off? Not neccessarily, that would also explain why it defenses would be mention on TIM base.

Some people will say it is because it detects Edi but I'm not convinced

[kyg_20X6]

Thorwind wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Thorwind wrote...

Also I still can't figure out why the prothean VI on Cerberus base says he will share the info (about the Catalyst) because it's defenses have been hacked, I mean those defenses were in place only against indoctrinated people. If Shepard was not indoctrinated why would the VI chose those words...TIM was gone and KL was already looking after his teeth on the floor.

That would imply that Shepard was already indoctrinated, even if mildly but the VI would help him anyway because his defenses were down.


EDIT: damn typo...

I forget what I said to him to get him to say it, but he says he's programmed not to reveal what the catalyst is until the crucible has been completed.  He doesn't know the crucible is finished, so he shouldn't say what the catalyst is.  That's why he mentioned being hacked.

Oh!..ok, well there goes my wonderful part of a theory, thanks for the reply

If you take Javik to Thessia the VI willingly cooperates. It even offers to help build the Crucible and find the Catalyst. I'm not sure why it would act less willingly on Cerberus HQ.

[Stigweird85]

Derp88 wrote...

DreamTension wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

I think, ME would evolve to a Sci-Fi universe with even more space magic. And I really hate this idea. On the other hand a ME strategie game might be interesting. I would advice Bioware to take the concept of "sins of a solar empire" or "supreme commander" maybe a "battlefront" would be awsome, too.

Strategy game sounds like a good idea, but Bioware are not known for making strategy games. Why would they go in that direction if their team is tailored to making RPGs with rich stories? It wouldn't be a good game simply because thry have no experience making strategy games.

Remember that a new "Bioware" studio was annouced recently to work on an RTS, so it isn't unreasonable to assume that an RTS in the mass effect universe is a possibility. Although I think this would be more of a spin off rather than the main franchise release

[Derp88]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Derp88 wrote...

DreamTension wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

I think, ME would evolve to a Sci-Fi universe with even more space magic. And I really hate this idea. On the other hand a ME strategie game might be interesting. I would advice Bioware to take the concept of "sins of a solar empire" or "supreme commander" maybe a "battlefront" would be awsome, too.

Strategy game sounds like a good idea, but Bioware are not known for making strategy games. Why would they go in that direction if their team is tailored to making RPGs with rich stories? It wouldn't be a good game simply because thry have no experience making strategy games.

Story and choice does not have to lack in strategy game, Starcraft 2 proved that.

That's not what I said though. I'm sure if Bioware did make a Strategy game, the story would be awesome. But it's the "Strategy" aspect they have no experience of, and so the game mechanics would probably suffer because of it. Starcraft 2 is a good example (and Warcraft III) because Blizzard are known for making solid strategy games with a role-playing element, hence the solid gameplay and engaging story.

[ChuckieJ]

bigstig wrote...

Love the idea, my thought which I posted around 100pages I go I think(this thread moves fast)

At Pax a video montage of the final battle is shown, including Shepard breathing. At which point someone from behind crowd dressed as a character, Liara or the new guy(I can't remember his name at the moment) maybe even Edi (can't be any character who could be dead by this point) would yell. Wake Up it's time to take back Earth. Then screen that was showing ending flashes Priority: Take Back Earth.

Imagine the reaction that the annoucement would get, it would be huge

I love it Wish I could be there honestly LOL

[ChuckieJ]

DreamTension wrote...

Dude...that....would be so awesome...can't get hopes up...so awesome though...no, they just screwed up....so cool if they planned this.

They are making it painfully obvious through social media and other means that this *was* in fact all planned and we just have to be patient.

[Thorwind]

Well as for every other indoctrination theory arguments there are things that can work in it's favor or that can dismantle it easily, problem is what to believe...won't even mention about adding all the facts and wishing them to be true and not end up with a resolution to the series that you can't really understand.

at my first try at ME3 at the end I was like Joker in ME2 while trying to unshackle EDI: ''sh*t, what the sh*t!?...sh*t, sh*t, sh*t!''....whaaa' the sh' was that the ending? lol

[Rifneno]

bigstig wrote...

I'm drawing a mental block here? Cronos station? When did that happen?

That's the Cerberus HQ right before the assault on Earth.
Related note, does that name concern anyone else?  Technically speaking it's the name of a titan but it's fairly interchangable with Chronos.  Which means "time".  And in fiction it's often used in the names of plot devices involving time travel.  I doubt they'll go there but...  

kyg_20X6 wrote...

If you take Javik to Thessia the VI willingly cooperates. It even offers to help build the Crucible and find the Catalyst. I'm not sure why it would act less willingly on Cerberus HQ.

Because on Thessia, they hadn't asked him what the catalyst is.  He's not to supposed to tell people that unless he's positive that the crucible is complete because they didn't want the Reapers to find out because he blabbed too early.  Which is exactly what happened.
And yes, the VI is definitely talking about Kai Leng.  If you bring Javik as you said, the VI turns and looks directly at Leng when he says "Indoctrinated presence detected.  Shutting down."

[Derp88]

Remember that a new "Bioware" studio was annouced recently to work on an RTS, so it isn't unreasonable to assume that an RTS in the mass effect universe is a possibility. Although I think this would be more of a spin off rather than the main franchise release

Ah I wasn't aware of this. Maybe if they got the right people in that team who have experience in making good RTS games, could be a success.

[mitch shepard for ash]

i really want to belive the indoc theory and i can see how it makes evrything make complete sense but with all the statements released from bioware it realy makes me think that this never was the plan and the closet comment made about changing the ending was how they were just going to expand or add content before the ending hapens to try and make it explain the end not actualy make the ending better

[Stigweird85]

Rifneno wrote...

bigstig wrote...

I'm drawing a mental block here? Cronos station? When did that happen?

That's the Cerberus HQ right before the assault on Earth.
Related note, does that name concern anyone else?  Technically speaking it's the name of a titan but it's fairly interchangable with Chronos.  Which means "time".  And in fiction it's often used in the names of plot devices involving time travel.  I doubt they'll go there but...  

kyg_20X6 wrote...

If you take Javik to Thessia the VI willingly cooperates. It even offers to help build the Crucible and find the Catalyst. I'm not sure why it would act less willingly on Cerberus HQ.

Because on Thessia, they hadn't asked him what the catalyst is.  He's not to supposed to tell people that unless he's positive that the crucible is complete because they didn't want the Reapers to find out because he blabbed too early.  Which is exactly what happened.
And yes, the VI is definitely talking about Kai Leng.  If you bring Javik as you said, the VI turns and looks directly at Leng when he says "Indoctrinated presence detected.  Shutting down."

Thanks, wasn't sure of the name.

  If it is the bit I'm thinking off (where you first entered base) there is a hole to allow for ships to enter/leave but it has you standard force field type thing across it. I'll need to replay but wasn't the threat at the end of the level that cerberus were going to open the airlock and vent you into space?

[Rob_K1]

Domanese wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

Just posted a thread detailing why the 'Prothean VI couldn't detect indoctrination, so Shepard mustn't be indoctrinated' argument is not foolproof. I'd appreciate it if you could link to the thread or at least the video linked below, when the argument is raised:

Thread link

Video link

Go to around 8:56 in the video link, where Javik mentions being betrayed by indoctrinated people. It stands to reason that the Protheans couldn't certifiably detect indoctrination with 100% reliability.

Just wanted to post it here anyway and for the thread/video to be linked, as it can quite easily be lost and people cannot deny words spoken by in-game characters whereas they can deny what someone on a forum says. It might help prevent that being used as a case against indoctrination being false anyway.

Didn't Vigil also confirm that they couldn't always detect indoctrination 100% of the time as well in Mass Effect 1? I seem to remember that as well.

The quote I have access to from Vigil is as follows:

'These indoctrinated servants became sleeper agents under Reaper control. Taken in as refugees by other Protheans, they betrayed them to the machines.'

From this video, at 4:10.

[Rifneno]

Derp88 wrote...

Ah I wasn't aware of this. Maybe if they got the right people in that team who have experience in making good RTS games, could be a success.

Let's hope they actually put more than the 15 minutes they put into Galaxy at War.  I cannot believe that they didn't use dedicated servers.

mitch shepard for ash wrote...

i really want to belive the indoc theory and i can see how it makes evrything make complete sense but with all the statements released from bioware it realy makes me think that this never was the plan and the closet comment made about changing the ending was how they were just going to expand or add content before the ending hapens to try and make it explain the end not actualy make the ending better

Perhaps look into Punctuation Theory instead?  If anyone could read that, I sincerely congratulate you.

bigstig wrote...

Thanks, wasn't sure of the name.

  If it is the bit I'm thinking off (where you first entered base) there is a hole to allow for ships to enter/leave but it has you standard force field type thing across it. I'll need to replay but wasn't the threat at the end of the level that cerberus were going to open the airlock and vent you into space?

No, this is deeper in.  After EDI has hacked a few doors.  It's right before you drop down to the proto-reaper room I think.  Avoid going forward immediately and explore the rooms on the other side of the area.

[Spiderman_2028]

Speaking of Cerberus HQ... Been wondering why jamming your OmniBlade into Kai Leng's guts, when he clearly intends to turn you into a Shap-Ka-bob, was a Renegade action? It seemed to me that even a Paragon Shep would want to take out Kai Leng... He tried to Kill Miranda, Killed Thane, sent that smug email after Thessia... The goal of that scene was to defeat Leng- I assumed that meant he would be killed, given how scared everyone was of him- why do Shep & co leave him breathing, before either staring out a window, or as Shep seems to do- hop online and check his FarmVille game?

I didnt strike me as a wholly 'Renegade' thing to do. At that point, it looked like unless you hit that prompt, Shep is toast. Reading about IT- I wonder if that could be an indicator of the Reaper influence? Making self-preservation a Renegade action, with no other option presenting itself other than 'cross your fingers' seemed off to me - I remember at the time feeling forced into that choice, and didn't have that sense in ME2, or up to that point in 3,

Probably coincidence, I know. Not clinging to/grasping that straw for dear life. It's been bugging me though, and I'd be interested to know if anyone else had a similar vibe?

[DreamTension]

ChuckieJ wrote...

DreamTension wrote...

Dude...that....would be so awesome...can't get hopes up...so awesome though...no, they just screwed up....so cool if they planned this.

They are making it painfully obvious through social media and other means that this *was* in fact all planned and we just have to be patient.

Really?  I find it the opposite.  I believe in the IDT, but everything they have done (press releases, twitter, etc..) has pushed me further and further away.

Here's hoping.  I remain skeptically faithful.

[BastiSito]

Rob_K1 wrote...

The quote I have access to from Vigil is as follows:

'These indoctrinated servants became sleeper agents under Reaper control. Taken in as refugees by other Protheans, they betrayed them to the machines.'

From this video, at 4:10.

Vigil and the Prothean VIs can detect full and utterly complete indoctrination. They are not capable of detecting beginning or early stages, as there were sleeper agents within the Prothean refugees. Question is: Does this imply a form of "trigger a sleeper"?
So a certain "signal" sent by Harbinger could fully turn Shepard into an indoctrinated puppet?

[N7xELITE]

It does not matter about being paragon or renegade its the right choice that matters.

[Thorwind]

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

Speaking of Cerberus HQ... Been wondering why jamming your OmniBlade into Kai Leng's guts, when he clearly intends to turn you into a Shap-Ka-bob, was a Renegade action? It seemed to me that even a Paragon Shep would want to take out Kai Leng... He tried to Kill Miranda, Killed Thane, sent that smug email after Thessia... The goal of that scene was to defeat Leng- I assumed that meant he would be killed, given how scared everyone was of him- why do Shep & co leave him breathing, before either staring out a window, or as Shep seems to do- hop online and check his FarmVille game?

I didnt strike me as a wholly 'Renegade' thing to do. At that point, it looked like unless you hit that prompt, Shep is toast. Reading about IT- I wonder if that could be an indicator of the Reaper influence? Making self-preservation a Renegade action, with no other option presenting itself other than 'cross your fingers' seemed off to me - I remember at the time feeling forced into that choice, and didn't have that sense in ME2, or up to that point in 3,

Probably coincidence, I know. Not clinging to/grasping that straw for dear life. It's been bugging me though, and I'd be interested to know if anyone else had a similar vibe?

you have a point there, it is the same case as the renegade choice of taking out TIM with 'the provided'' hand gun before killing Anderson

[DreamTension]

Derp88 wrote...

Remember that a new "Bioware" studio was annouced recently to work on an RTS, so it isn't unreasonable to assume that an RTS in the mass effect universe is a possibility. Although I think this would be more of a spin off rather than the main franchise release

Ah I wasn't aware of this. Maybe if they got the right people in that team who have experience in making good RTS games, could be a success.

Hmm.  Semi-excited.  I'm a console gamer (non-PC, but no hater) so RTS are exciting yet extremely fluky.  LOTR:BFME was probably the 'best' RTS on a console.  It was flawed, but it was technically sound and I found it extremely fun.  Halo Wars was good albeit stripped down for easier console play.  It was still worth it, to me a RTS fan who doesn't have a gaming PC.

[DreamTension]

BastiSito wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

The quote I have access to from Vigil is as follows:

'These indoctrinated servants became sleeper agents under Reaper control. Taken in as refugees by other Protheans, they betrayed them to the machines.'

From this video, at 4:10.

Vigil and the Prothean VIs can detect full and utterly complete indoctrination. They are not capable of detecting beginning or early stages, as there were sleeper agents within the Prothean refugees. Question is: Does this imply a form of "trigger a sleeper"?
So a certain "signal" sent by Harbinger could fully turn Shepard into an indoctrinated puppet?

Ahhh!  I see what you are saying.  Christ...I haven't wanted something to be true as much as I want the IDT to be true...

And I just replayed ME1 all the way through and your quotes above are exactly what I wanted to post about.  Glad somebody mentioned this.  Thanks

[Case Alexander]

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

Speaking of Cerberus HQ... Been wondering why jamming your OmniBlade into Kai Leng's guts, when he clearly intends to turn you into a Shap-Ka-bob, was a Renegade action? It seemed to me that even a Paragon Shep would want to take out Kai Leng... He tried to Kill Miranda, Killed Thane, sent that smug email after Thessia... The goal of that scene was to defeat Leng- I assumed that meant he would be killed, given how scared everyone was of him- why do Shep & co leave him breathing, before either staring out a window, or as Shep seems to do- hop online and check his FarmVille game?

I didnt strike me as a wholly 'Renegade' thing to do. At that point, it looked like unless you hit that prompt, Shep is toast. Reading about IT- I wonder if that could be an indicator of the Reaper influence? Making self-preservation a Renegade action, with no other option presenting itself other than 'cross your fingers' seemed off to me - I remember at the time feeling forced into that choice, and didn't have that sense in ME2, or up to that point in 3,

Probably coincidence, I know. Not clinging to/grasping that straw for dear life. It's been bugging me though, and I'd be interested to know if anyone else had a similar vibe?

Having played both sides of that scene, the Renegade choice is about reacting to Lengs going to stab you by breaking the blade. If you don't Shepard will simply move out of the way and the blade will slice through the keyboard/terminal.

Stabbing him is not an option. Thane must be avenged.

[Rifneno]

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

Speaking of Cerberus HQ... Been wondering why jamming your OmniBlade into Kai Leng's guts, when he clearly intends to turn you into a Shap-Ka-bob, was a Renegade action? It seemed to me that even a Paragon Shep would want to take out Kai Leng... He tried to Kill Miranda, Killed Thane, sent that smug email after Thessia... The goal of that scene was to defeat Leng- I assumed that meant he would be killed, given how scared everyone was of him- why do Shep & co leave him breathing, before either staring out a window, or as Shep seems to do- hop online and check his FarmVille game?

I didnt strike me as a wholly 'Renegade' thing to do. At that point, it looked like unless you hit that prompt, Shep is toast. Reading about IT- I wonder if that could be an indicator of the Reaper influence? Making self-preservation a Renegade action, with no other option presenting itself other than 'cross your fingers' seemed off to me - I remember at the time feeling forced into that choice, and didn't have that sense in ME2, or up to that point in 3,

Probably coincidence, I know. Not clinging to/grasping that straw for dear life. It's been bugging me though, and I'd be interested to know if anyone else had a similar vibe?

Pretty much any interrupt that makes Shepard do something violent is a renegade one.  Even ones where it's very clearly not a bad guy action.  Like shooting Udina when he's about to kill the asari councilor.  Even a cop going by the book (in America anyway) would have fired.  Even in ME2, almost every renegade interrupt was just a sensible thing to do.  Only exception I can remember is beating up Mouse for no good reason.  Shooting a mercenary loki mech, electrocuting the batarian working on the mercenary's gunship, ect.

[DreamTension]

Thorwind wrote...

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

Speaking of Cerberus HQ... Been wondering why jamming your OmniBlade into Kai Leng's guts, when he clearly intends to turn you into a Shap-Ka-bob, was a Renegade action? It seemed to me that even a Paragon Shep would want to take out Kai Leng... He tried to Kill Miranda, Killed Thane, sent that smug email after Thessia... The goal of that scene was to defeat Leng- I assumed that meant he would be killed, given how scared everyone was of him- why do Shep & co leave him breathing, before either staring out a window, or as Shep seems to do- hop online and check his FarmVille game?

I didnt strike me as a wholly 'Renegade' thing to do. At that point, it looked like unless you hit that prompt, Shep is toast. Reading about IT- I wonder if that could be an indicator of the Reaper influence? Making self-preservation a Renegade action, with no other option presenting itself other than 'cross your fingers' seemed off to me - I remember at the time feeling forced into that choice, and didn't have that sense in ME2, or up to that point in 3,

Probably coincidence, I know. Not clinging to/grasping that straw for dear life. It's been bugging me though, and I'd be interested to know if anyone else had a similar vibe?

you have a point there, it is the same case as the renegade choice of taking out TIM with 'the provided'' hand gun before killing Anderson

I hate that this game did things like that (like killing Udina was Renegade when he was apparantly about to shoot --I pressed the button without thinking).  After it gave me Renegade points, I realized the same thing with Kai Leng.  
If you don't press the button, you still kill Kai.  It's a wierd thing---something that has deeper meaning or is just a way to add more context situations.