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[DreamTension]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

DreamTension wrote...

CaliGuy033 wrote...

DreamTension wrote...

Rob_K1,
I was enjoying your other post as well. Very insightful stuff and it shows that Bioware has layers of information and hints spread throughout the games.

What it shows is that people see what they want to see.  Nothing more.

I'm guessing you are just saying that without actually reading the post because he was connecting ME1 and ME3.  There is no seeing what I want to see.

I read his post.  I absolutely agree with you that there are numerous common threads between the games, sometimes subtle ones.  That's a great thing.

But none of those common threads are hints of IT or any similar interpretation.  

Then why are we FIGHTING?  Seriously though: this is a IDT post so it can be assumed we (well, I) are building a case for it, but in that other post he was just putting pieces together.

Sorry for coming off strong.

CaliGuy033 wrote...

There is plenty of proof against IT.  99% of the game
and 99% of the ending itself is proof against IT. But funnily enough,
confirmation bias has led people to take that proof and spin it into
evidence that actually supports the theory.

I just think it's too
funny that people are waiting for a Bioware "announcement," as if there
is any chance whatsoever that the company is going to say, "Oh yeah, it
was Indoctrination Theory.  Good call."

This whole thread is building evidence for a theory.  Nobody has claimed it true; some rather believe this than the current ending (me), some see merit in this but think the endings are just bad, and others hate this idea altogether. 

I seriously do not think you can even say 99% of the game is proving against this when there's been many scenes/dialogs/codexes that have led to this theory having legs.  Please name just one fact that can completely dismiss this entire theory.  

Modifié par DreamTension, 28 mars 2012 - 03:39 .

[BastiSito]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

There is plenty of proof against IT.  99% of the game and 99% of the ending itself is proof against IT. But funnily enough, confirmation bias has led people to take that proof and spin it into evidence that actually supports the theory.
(...)

Well, proof that doesn't support IT isn't necessarily proof against IT. I wouldn't say that 99% are proof against it - that would at least include half of the MAKO-Tours of ME1 - which I wouldn't count as "hard proof against IT".

And if you just take ME3, you have at least describe parts of the detecting/probing minigame as "hard proof against IT". Or running around in the Citadel. Or elevator rides - is that a "proof against", riding an elevator?

95% of the game are neither supporting nor dismissing the Indoctrination Theory.

[Gernbuster]

Chris Priestly gave us the biggest clue of all.



[quote]We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. [/quote]

The number of people who have completed the game is the key. Much like Operation: Fortress, Bioware has the ability to capture information about the progress of online gamers playing the campaign (For Xbox, even if they don't have Xbox Live Gold they can still play connected to Live). The content is on the disc and will automatically (or semi-automatically) unlock once a certain number or percentage of players have completed the ending. A ping/short message will be sent to the game (or the game checks for one on launch) much like the one that popped up explaining Operation: Fortress. When the game receieves this message the content unlocks (or for the PC players, it downloads).

Now I definitely could be wrong about the "number or percentage of players" part but I think it would be pretty cool. The other option is to use the same method but unlock it immediately after the PAX panel (after which certainly enough people should have "experienced the game"). The point would be to avoid large downloads for players who might not be able to get them easily. As long as you can get online at all, you can get the content when everyone else does automatically.

[/quote]


Love the idea, my thought which I posted around 100pages I go I think(this thread moves fast)

At Pax a video montage of the final battle is shown, including Shepard breathing. At which point someone from behind crowd dressed as a character, Liara or the new guy(I can't remember his name at the moment) maybe even Edi (can't be any character who could be dead by this point) would yell. Wake Up it's time to take back Earth. Then screen that was showing ending flashes Priority: Take Back Earth.

[/quote]

By the way it might be possible. Bioware said the game will take about 40 hours. But it needed 31 hours and most other players I talked to were always between 30 and 33.
and I don t know if its true, but I heared the XBOX version is much bigger, then the PC version.

[wheelierdan]

how in the world is a developer saying hey guys im prolly gonna talk about my game after people beat it proof of anything?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

CaliGuy033 wrote...

DreamTension wrote...

Rob_K1,
I was enjoying your other post as well. Very insightful stuff and it shows that Bioware has layers of information and hints spread throughout the games.

What it shows is that people see what they want to see.  Nothing more.

What it shows is that there is no definite proof for or against the indoctrination theory. There will be none until BioWare comes out with new content or speaks out on the endings.

There is plenty of proof against IT.  99% of the game and 99% of the ending itself is proof against IT. But funnily enough, confirmation bias has led people to take that proof and spin it into evidence that actually supports the theory.

I just think it's too funny that people are waiting for a Bioware "announcement," as if there is any chance whatsoever that the company is going to say, "Oh yeah, it was Indoctrination Theory.  Good call."

I am gonna repeat what I always repeat when I see people like you in this thread.

If there is so much proof against the IT then how about you show us it? Link it, explain it, actually do something instead of just saying it is there. So far there have been many like you, but none have brought up any definitive proof against the IT.

If someone had this thread would probably not be here anymore which after 900+ pages should tell you everything of how thorough we are.

[Gernbuster]

I would be so happy if somebody would get here and give us just one single proof against IT to discuss about.
I watched a youtube vid against IT and I was thinking all of the time the guy is joking. Right now I get the feeling that opponents of the IT are either, incredible pessimistic or simply stupid. I would apreciate somebody to discuss the IT who can give me some good points.

[Yahmosa007]

Here's my own theory on what we get in april.

Green: Shep wakes up, everyone else is indoctrinated

Blue: Shep wakes up, evil grin/dead

Red: Shep wakes up/no legs/dead

Modifié par Yahmosa007, 28 mars 2012 - 03:51 .

[nyrocron]

 

Pure speculation incoming:

Why not discuss that? It is not directly about the ending. One could read that together with the statement that the best possible outcome does not require MP as: the current endings are not final, we planned a way to the ending (that is yet to happen) that does not require you to have the currently needed 4k/5k EMS for the perfect outcome.

[ChuckieJ]

CaliGuy033 wrote...
There is plenty of proof against IT.  99% of the game and 99% of the ending itself is proof against IT. But funnily enough, confirmation bias has led people to take that proof and spin it into evidence that actually supports the theory.

I just think it's too funny that people are waiting for a Bioware "announcement," as if there is any chance whatsoever that the company is going to say, "Oh yeah, it was Indoctrination Theory.  Good call."

Please explain rather than ranting. There is a ton of evidence for Indoctrination in the game and outside the game, including the social media person for Bioware congratulating a fan on having more fun during their second playthrough because they knew about indoctrination.

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

wheelierdan wrote...

how in the world is a developer saying hey guys im prolly gonna talk about my game after people beat it proof of anything?

Because if Bioware immeadiately tells everyone, "yah hey, shepard was going through indoctrination" what fun is that?  I want to beable to figue it out, I don't want them to spoonfeed me by telling me immeaditely what it all means.

[DreamTension]

wheelierdan wrote...

how in the world is a developer saying hey guys im prolly gonna talk about my game after people beat it proof of anything?

Proof: no
Speculations: Yes!!!

[Spectre-61]

nyrocron wrote...

 

Pure speculation incoming:

Why not discuss that? It is not directly about the ending. One could read that together with the statement that the best possible outcome does not require MP as: the current endings are not final, we planned a way to the ending (that is yet to happen) that does not require you to have the currently needed 4k/5k EMS for the perfect outcome.

That response is indeed a bit weird

Why wait until april to give info about EMS?
Unless...

HOLD THE LINE!!!

[MutsX]

Gernbuster wrote...



By the way it might be possible. Bioware said the game will take about 40 hours. But it needed 31 hours and most other players I talked to were always between 30 and 33.
and I don t know if its true, but I heared the XBOX version is much bigger, then the PC version.

I played the xbox360 game to the fullest (incl scanning/sidemissions etc) and didnot skip a conversation, I ended up playing roughly 43 hours, as an expierenced ME player. In my opinion; 33 hours is very quick for a 360 first-time run.. 

But why would BioWare cut stuff from the pc-version?

on-topic, I hope that they reveal at PAX that the IT was their aim all along!

[Miss Vader]

Hey guys, bit off topic but for those of us not attending PAX- is there a way we can still watch it? Is it televised by any chance? Or do we have to wait until 5:30 (when Bioware's panel is over) where all the twitters flood in describing what just happened?

[Stigweird85]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

CaliGuy033 wrote...

DreamTension wrote...

Rob_K1,
I was enjoying your other post as well. Very insightful stuff and it shows that Bioware has layers of information and hints spread throughout the games.

What it shows is that people see what they want to see.  Nothing more.

What it shows is that there is no definite proof for or against the indoctrination theory. There will be none until BioWare comes out with new content or speaks out on the endings.

There is plenty of proof against IT.  99% of the game and 99% of the ending itself is proof against IT. But funnily enough, confirmation bias has led people to take that proof and spin it into evidence that actually supports the theory.

I just think it's too funny that people are waiting for a Bioware "announcement," as if there is any chance whatsoever that the company is going to say, "Oh yeah, it was Indoctrination Theory.  Good call."

Okay, this thread is full with things that can be viewed as evidence, rather than simply stating random statistics how about you offer some evidence about your claim that 99% isn't about it. 

I will accept that IT isn't true if that is the case, but I am enjoying trying to figure it out. I cannot say that IT is definitely true, however you cannot say that it is definitely false as we just don't know.

You can either sit back and enjoy the ride or stick your fingers in your ears and ignore it. The choice is yours

Statistics can be used to prove anything 40% of people know this.

[Gernbuster]

"Our enemies think, if they go on repeating their point of view and ignore ours, it becomes valid."
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

[Flash_Death]

Just thought this was funny.

http://i3.kym-cdn.co...269/101/212.jpg

[Purple People Eater]

Look, I dont care if the ending is due to IT or not, but one thing is for sure. there is a lot of evidence to support the claim. People who say IT is ridiculous and that those of us who believe it are grasping at straws, never have a decent counterpoint to tell us why it cant be. The only people I see dogging IT are the ones who just dont want that to be whats really happening, or they find some trivial thing to hold on to while telling us were deluded.

If it turns out not to be IT...then fine. Im good with it. But, until Bioware disproves this (which they haven't to this point), im going to believe thats whats happening. Not because its what I want, but because it makes the most sense given what we know about indoctrination and its effects, and what happened in the game.

[Spectre-61]

Flash_Death wrote...

Just thought this was funny.

http://i3.kym-cdn.co...269/101/212.jpg

It's funny, because it's true.

[Kyzee]

 *Whew!* Go to bed, wake to find fifteen pages to read . . . well, skim (won't lie.)

Anyway, off topic, I just wanted to thank everyone who's trying to keep the conversation civil, especially in light of a number of . . . shall we say, abrasive posts. It's nice to see that I'm not alone in calling for this. You guys are awesome. 

Now, on topic: I'm going to repost part of what I had put up about twenty/thirty pages ago, as I only saw responses in regard to the facial scars issue, and I'm really interested in what people's opinions are to this. (Man, quoting myself feels so egotistical.)

Kyzee wrote...

(3) People have also mentioned how different TIM looks in the final scene vs. his appearance throughout the rest of the game as evidence of how the scene must be a hallucination. Well, during the very first conversation you have with TIM on Mars, when the camera shows TIM himself in his room and not via the hologram, there is a dark line on the side of his face which looks like the beginnings of his transformation into his final appearance. This could've been disguised in the hologram. Also, that is the ONLY TIME we see TIM directly until the end of the game. Otherwise it's via hologram, or his face isn't shown. Again, this is something I noticed during my first playthrough. Said procedure could also potentially explain the powers TIM then has to control Shepard and Anderson (and yes, I say that with a HUGE amount of skepticism.)

Why do I, a supporter of IT, bring this up? Well, for one, it's something to consider, and I refuse to put blinders on (would be a wee bit hypocritical, given my stance on things in this forum). But moreover, it does raise questions as to when the indoctrination sequence could've actually begun, i.e. when Shepard falls unconscious on the Citadel vs. after Harbinger's attack.

Of course, it doesn't address the numerous other issues that arise after Harbinger's attack, hence my skepticism. But hey, I loves me some theorizing and debating! :happy:

(4) And finally, just for sh*ts and giggles, I was wondering if there's a recording anywhere that separates the Star Child's voice into its three components? I'm curious to hear Mark Meer's and Jennifer Hale's deliveries of their dialogue. Could be telling; could not. Would be neat in any event.

Yes, yes--(4) is only marginally on topic. But I'm curious. And I wants it. So there. 

Modifié par Kyzee, 28 mars 2012 - 04:02 .

[Martukis]

So hey, I was looking around and found this: http://www.ugo.com/g...st-game-endings , which by far all seem more satisfying that the current ending, if it is to be taken at face value. Here is to hoping IDT is true, and to holding that line!

[Gernbuster]

MutsX wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...



By the way it might be possible. Bioware said the game will take about 40 hours. But it needed 31 hours and most other players I talked to were always between 30 and 33.
and I don t know if its true, but I heared the XBOX version is much bigger, then the PC version.

I played the xbox360 game to the fullest (incl scanning/sidemissions etc) and didnot skip a conversation, I ended up playing roughly 43 hours, as an expierenced ME player. In my opinion; 33 hours is very quick for a 360 first-time run.. 

But why would BioWare cut stuff from the pc-version?

on-topic, I hope that they reveal at PAX that the IT was their aim all along!

So I might be much more Me experienced
No seriously, if you got a PC with origin, u can download bigger additional content easiely, but I is a little more complex on the XBox, especially because some versions of the 360 got only 4 gigs harddrive space.
I don't believe in the theorie, that at some point the IDT get revealed and playable on the Xbox, PC or PS3, but I still don't have a clue, where the larger Xbox version is comming from.

[Darknessfalls23]

Who cares if it is true, It is 100% a better ending than if you take the ending as being real and nothing is going on. Bioware probably isn't going to change the ending if it is the real ending so you might as well accept that. They probably will just fill in some of the plot holes, come up with epilogue explaining why everyone is not dead on earth and move on.

Modifié par Darknessfalls23, 28 mars 2012 - 04:16 .

[DreamTension]

TIM's face during the final confrontation can be
taken as either a reinforcement of IDT or you could take it as a real change
due to TIM's indoctrination. 

Before knowing about this theory, I simply thought his face was showing the
effects of ID or perhaps TIM receiving implants/upgrades (like Saren, but Saren
did it willingly).  It can explain TIM's new ability to control Shepard
and Anderson.


On the flip side, TIM's face being deteriorated can symbolize Saren in Shepard’s  mind. 
It also has the holy/unholy analogy with Anderson vs TIM and this
appearance of TIM is Shepard’s mind trying to signal it.

Modifié par DreamTension, 28 mars 2012 - 04:18 .

[JustAidan]

Gernbuster wrote...

MutsX wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...



By the way it might be possible. Bioware said the game will take about 40 hours. But it needed 31 hours and most other players I talked to were always between 30 and 33.
and I don t know if its true, but I heared the XBOX version is much bigger, then the PC version.

I played the xbox360 game to the fullest (incl scanning/sidemissions etc) and didnot skip a conversation, I ended up playing roughly 43 hours, as an expierenced ME player. In my opinion; 33 hours is very quick for a 360 first-time run.. 

But why would BioWare cut stuff from the pc-version?

on-topic, I hope that they reveal at PAX that the IT was their aim all along!

So I might be much more Me experienced
No seriously, if you got a PC with origin, u can download bigger additional content easiely, but I is a little more complex on the XBox, especially because some versions of the 360 got only 4 gigs harddrive space.
I don't believe in the theorie, that at some point the IDT get revealed and playable on the Xbox, PC or PS3, but I still don't have a clue, where the larger Xbox version is comming from.

360/PS3 size is 14gbs, PC size is <10gbs. When companies put patchs and DLC onto the 360/PS3 are Microsoft/SONY charge the company or don't allow the DLC to be free. PC version goes through Origin so no extra costs for EA there. If there was any hidden content installed by the PC version it would have been found by inquistive players by now.

So Bioware/EA might have left game assests (not necessarily the full ending) on the 360/PC versions to bring down their costs to Microsoft/SONY in the future. Possibly even stuff they haven't used at all or cut from the game, left over bits that they might use etc.