57139 réponses à ce sujet

[BastiSito]

Rob_K1 wrote...

Edit: By the way, if the PTSD claims are true, then it can only really apply to the dreams with the child in my view. It can't really apply to the ending, because I cannot see any logical reason as to why Shepard would think of the stuff that occurs when dealing with PTSD. All my own view of course and I can't exactly say I'm familiar with PTSD.

Some delusions about "Being the one who saves everyone in the galaxy while sacrificing him/herself"? Would fit the "sole survivor"-profile (but not the other profiles) and it would demand, that Shepard has become a complete nutter.

[Rob_K1]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I usually like Gamermd83

But her explanations to the holes were absolutely atrocious. She's all over the place and contradicts herself many times. She's also under the impression that BioWare would make it obvious if they were planning this to be a surprise... yeah, no.

What did you think of the other video linked?

[BastiSito]

Arphee wrote...

I never knew Anderson was a Lazarus Project 2.0 candidate,  guess i didn't realize he was filled to the brim with cybernetics to be controlled like a marionette as well. Highly unlikely that even if the scene were real, it had anything to do with TIM assuming Mechanical control of anything.

Though if theyre writing really is horrible, and the design team is incompetent, and the last 10 minutes of the game is all oversights and sloppy writing i guess TIM could use some Space Magic to controll anderson through his ear piece <_<

Well, actually even Shepard wasn't "filled to the brim" with cybernetics to "be controlled like a marionette".
Sometimes people exaggerate even an exaggeration.

Shepard was the one to have fired a shot at Anderson. Anderson barely managed to stand on his feet. Nobody needed to control Anderson, just to move Shepards hand to point the gun at Anderson and pull the trigger.

That COULD be an explanation - a lame one, granted.

[CaliGuy033]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

@Caliguy033 - explain why the last 10-15 minutes of the game makes absolutely no sense and why the indoctrination theory is the easiest/best way to explain it other than "the ending sucks and I said so and because Bioware writers are bad"

We know Bioware writers are capable of it- Kotor, Jade Empire

We know Bioware/EA didn't run out money- Especially for one of the most anticipated games of 2012. EA pumped a ton of money into this game. They wanted it to be a success and for the most part it is

We know they didn't run out of time- They already extended the release date 3-4 months. That seems to me like more than enough time to finish up the game and polish it.

I'm not concerned with anyone's ultimate opinion.  You are free to believe whatever you want.  It's a story, it's supposed to be fun.  I'm glad you've found something that will (temporarily, at least) make it more fun for you.  

My beef is with the thought process.  There is very, very little persuasive evidence of IT.  When you say you know the Bioware writers are 'capable" of writing something better, you are ignoring the fact that the Bioware writers are human and that humans are by nature inconsistent and do not always maximize their capability.  

You are also ignoring that any single piece of evidence supporting IT has various alternative explanations.  Adding up all those poor-evidence pieces together (even if there are hundreds) still doesn't get you much of anywhere.

See: 
http://social.biowar...P.html#10734604

[Hacedor1566]

Macgummi wrote...

Novouto wrote...

Is it sad that I literally dreamed a better ending last night in detail?

to be honest, I also had a dream about it  a few days ago...

You both are indoctrinated...  

[llbountyhunter]

BastiSito wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Real life IS logical, maybe not FAIR or happy but logical? Yes.

For example.

Real life: you drop a cup it shatters on the floor
Dream: you drop a cup it floats in the air. =/= logic

Or shooting Anderson and Shepard gets wounded instead....

As I said: "No offense". I have quite an understanding of quantum physics - a field of science where you can kiss logic bye-bye. Nothing to do with games or everyones experience in reallife, it just popped into my mind and made me laugh.

No offence taken

Buuut.. quantum mechanics doesn't really defy logic (IMO) its just random in the same way a game of poker doesn't defy logic (we just don't understand it yet)

Sorry getting too off topic here

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 28 mars 2012 - 05:52 .

[Cucobr]

a while back here, where one appears saying that IT has holes.

With that I stop to read and only read "I think ..." "but the game can be ..." etc etc

IT is not based on "I think" or "may be."

The video has more than 20 minutes of:

- Solid arguments based on Codex
- Dialogues of the three games
- Images of the three games.


Indoctrination Theory is not to be the end of the game, never was.
It just explains everything in a logical and rational way.

But the Reapers are still there. The Crucible is still there.

BioWare will continue where the game ended. When Shepard wakes.

Modifié par Cucobr, 28 mars 2012 - 05:53 .

[lex0r11]

Hacedor1566 wrote...

Macgummi wrote...

Novouto wrote...

Is it sad that I literally dreamed a better ending last night in detail?

to be honest, I also had a dream about it  a few days ago...

You both are indoctrinated...  

THIS was Bioware's real intention.


http://desmond.image....gif&res=medium

[BastiSito]

Cucobr wrote..

The video has more than 20 minutes of:

- Solid arguments based on Codex
- Dialogues of the three games
- Images of the three games.

Granted. The conclusions, however, do not have to be valid per se, though.

If I see an apple, and that apple is green, the conclusion apples are green is not necessarily valid.

[delldo]

Rob_K1 wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I usually like Gamermd83

But her explanations to the holes were absolutely atrocious. She's all over the place and contradicts herself many times. She's also under the impression that BioWare would make it obvious if they were planning this to be a surprise... yeah, no.

What did you think of the other video linked?

I seen the first video long ago and thought that it had some credability, but the more I thought about it I figured something out, another idea for the rubble.  After Harby leaves and Shepard wakes up it is all in his head (IT) and he is still laying on the ground close to the beam.  What if Harby never left and once Shepard chose destroy Harby just blows the Beam all to hell.  This would explain the concrete and mixture of citidel debri (the beam is made from citidel tech right?) and Shepardsbody is covered with it, partially at least.  (Or) we know Shepard was knocked out far from the beem, what if the concrete that he is laying in is from that initial beam blast and the final destruction of the beam is scattered about?  Just something I have been thinking about.

The second video sucks, you really should have watched that before posting it.  The girl tries hard to explain things, but ends up making no sense at all  IMO. 

[Chyliss]

Tr0n01d wrote...


+1000 for a strategy game.




a few years from now...


Firaxis and Bioware presents a cooperative release.



Mass Effect Civilizations !


play as the Turians, the Hanar, the Humans, the Asari, Krogan, Salarians and many more while you expand your dominion trough a 50000 years time span and achieve galactic conquest !

build Technological wonders in order to gain overwhelming bonuses.

be the first to discover the citadel and win a political victory over the galaxy, or destroy your enemies by contructing the cruisible and sumon the reapers over your foes !



my dream come true !

OMG... That would be to die for. Why did you have to put such an idea in my head??? I want MOAR! Civ is amazing.

[Hacedor1566]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

@Caliguy033 - explain why the last 10-15 minutes of the game makes absolutely no sense and why the indoctrination theory is the easiest/best way to explain it other than "the ending sucks and I said so and because Bioware writers are bad"

We know Bioware writers are capable of it- Kotor, Jade Empire

We know Bioware/EA didn't run out money- Especially for one of the most anticipated games of 2012. EA pumped a ton of money into this game. They wanted it to be a success and for the most part it is

We know they didn't run out of time- They already extended the release date 3-4 months. That seems to me like more than enough time to finish up the game and polish it.

I'm not concerned with anyone's ultimate opinion.  You are free to believe whatever you want.  It's a story, it's supposed to be fun.  I'm glad you've found something that will (temporarily, at least) make it more fun for you.  

My beef is with the thought process.  There is very, very little persuasive evidence of IT.  When you say you know the Bioware writers are 'capable" of writing something better, you are ignoring the fact that the Bioware writers are human and that humans are by nature inconsistent and do not always maximize their capability.  

You are also ignoring that any single piece of evidence supporting IT has various alternative explanations.  Adding up all those poor-evidence pieces together (even if there are hundreds) still doesn't get you much of anywhere.

See: 
http://social.biowar...P.html#10734604

The last 10-15 minutes of Mass Effect 3 had no sense. That's not an opinion. It's a fact. It has no logic. Just for this 

http://cdn2.gamefron...3/ME3yodawg.jpg

If what says the "electrical gremlin-god-masters of the ripers" is true, then the very existance of reapers, and the whole galaxy, makes no sense. I mean... Organics born, make a society, and then comes reapers and, just for organics society safety, they kill them all. And again... Man, if this is the purpose of organic life, my Shepard will commit suicide. 

And, yes, Bioware writers are humans. But there are another humans behind, to check their work, and to say them "man, this sucks. Do it again". This is not a mistake. just a bad ending or some sort of twisted social-marketing experiment. 

[CaliGuy033]

Cucobr wrote...

The video has more than 20 minutes of:

- Solid arguments based on Codex
- Dialogues of the three games
- Images of the three games.

The video is results-oriented and ignores the possible alternative explanations (and there are many) for all of those Codex entries, dialogue events, and images.

Here's an easy example: one thing the video points out is that some of the same graphic textures are found outside by the beam and up in the Starchild's chamber.  The video tells you this is evidence of IT.  But much more likely, it's evidence of a development team that wanted to be efficient and re-used some textures rather than making new ones from scratch. 

The vast majority of time, the most obvious explanation is the correct one.  That's where the video goes astray.  It consistently eschews the most obvious explanation.

[Dendio1]

Something weird I noticed:

The room with Anderson and Tim is empty outside of the console used to open the gates. There is nothing there..a bare floor. Then as anderson dies he and shep lean up against something in the middle of the room. But the middle of the room was completely empty.. no structures at all..nothing to lean against. Its like a small table or something suddenly exists out of nowhere

Modifié par Dendio1, 28 mars 2012 - 06:04 .

[crazyeye343]

Anything New?

[Rifneno]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

I'm not treating my view as "fact."

Bull.

thelightofspeed wrote...

In the same way, Indoc Theorists need to stop asking people to 'disprove' their speculation. It's not about proof against IT, because there will always be a way to explain it within the metaphysical dillemma of "it's a dream/simulation/etc". Stop asking for 'counterpoints', because the debate is structured in a way that it simply does not make sense to ask for them.

Focus on providing proof instead.

We've spent 900 pages providing proof. If you didn't pay attention, that's your problem. Things like Shepard surviving only in destroy, his eyes going TIM (indoctrinated) on synth or control, the random buzzing and ringing noises through the game that serve no purpose except as symptoms of indoctrination, ect. aren't just "that's weird and might be a dream". They're clearly purposefully done very strong indications of IT. 900 pages is enough. The burden of proof has been provided.

[CaliGuy033]

Hacedor1566 wrote...

The last 10-15 minutes of Mass Effect 3 had no sense. That's not an opinion. It's a fact. It has no logic. Just for this

No, that is an opinion.  No matter how many times you say it's a "fact" or incorrectly use the word "logic," it's still an opinion.  Seriously. 

Hacedor1566 wrote... 

And, yes, Bioware writers are humans. But there are another humans behind, to check their work, and to say them "man, this sucks. Do it again". This is not a mistake. just a bad ending or some sort of twisted social-marketing experiment. 

I think you misunderstood my point.  A "bad ending" is the mistake.  And again you are assuming that people don't make mistakes when they have other people to check their work.  It happens all the damn time.  You must not work in any sort of corporate environment if you don't grasp this. 

[CaliGuy033]

Rifneno wrote...

We've spent 900 pages providing proof. If you didn't pay attention, that's your problem. Things like Shepard surviving only in destroy, his eyes going TIM (indoctrinated) on synth or control, the random buzzing and ringing noises through the game that serve no purpose except as symptoms of indoctrination, ect. aren't just "that's weird and might be a dream". They're clearly purposefully done very strong indications of IT. 900 pages is enough. The burden of proof has been provided.

Oh, well if they've "clearly purposefully done it," then you must be right.  Thanks for clearing that up for all of us. 

Your 900 pages of weak proof add up to a weak conclusion.  Adding one weak inference to another, and then doing that ad nauseum, doesn't create a persuasive point.  What you have is 900 pages of confirmation bias and people who really, really don't want to believe that Bioware let them down.  

[llbountyhunter]

Dendio1 wrote...

Something weird I noticed:

The room with Anderson and Tim is empty outside of the console used to open the gates. There is nothing there..a bare floor. Then as anderson dies he and shep lean up against something in the middle of the room. But the middle of the room was completely empty.. no structures at all..nothing to lean against. Its like a small table or something suddenly exists out of nowhere

Clearly doesn't matter ID is still not true, no amount of solid evidence can convince me, its just biowares crappy writers at play. Lol jk, that's actually a pretty good point.

[baruaru]

Hacedor1566 wrote...

The last 10-15 minutes of Mass Effect 3 had no sense. That's not an opinion. It's a fact. It has no logic.

+1

[Rifneno]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

Oh, well if they've "clearly purposefully done it," then you must be right.  Thanks for clearing that up for all of us. 

Your 900 pages of weak proof add up to a weak conclusion.  Adding one weak inference to another, and then doing that ad nauseum, doesn't create a persuasive point.  What you have is 900 pages of confirmation bias and people who really, really don't want to believe that Bioware let them down.  

You shouldn't stick your head in the ground so much.  You know how many animals ****** on it?

[thelightofspeed]

We've spent 900 pages providing proof.

I was responding to someone asking for counterproof.

[Mondino]

Anyone looked at the sound track, the 33th song is called Indoctrinated and it's near the end, and if i remeber right it's the song that plays while you try to go to the beam after getting hit by the laser.

[BastiSito]

Hacedor1566 wrote...

The last 10-15 minutes of Mass Effect 3 had no sense. That's not an opinion. It's a fact. It has no logic. Just for this 
http://cdn2.gamefron...3/ME3yodawg.jpg

Actually, only the older, near technological singularity civilizations are reaperised, so that the younger ones (like Asari/Humans/Turians/Krogans/Salarians/Vorcha/Batarians 50k years ago) aren't destroyed as "collateral damage" when synthetics and their creators annihilate each other.

The circle is not to annihilate organics altogether, but to prevent organics having to start from primordial goo - again.

That was - imo - one of the more "understandable arguments" of the see-thru-gremlin-sparkling-thingie.

Still a very very cheap solution for such an old AI. It should at least have found some means to contain "younger AIs".

[NS Wizdum]

Just saw this on the ME3 twitter. Not the end of the franchise? WTF?

https://picasaweb.go...feat=directlink