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[MaxwellIan]

Found this elsewhere on the forums, all of it is there. Too much to be just a random oversight. Check it out, best proof I've seen thus far.



-During
the TIM talk at the control panel you hear reapers roaring here and
there and specifically when TIM FORCES your body or will to do
something i.e. shoot Anderson.. Harbinger is using TIM as a avatar in
the indoctrinated dream. using his roars to subvert you. -- explains
the multiple voices as well.

- If you notice while walking up the
ramp to get to the control panel on the left side it says 1M1..on the
right it says 1M1 but its backwards- the 1's are completely mirrored and
backwards. Logic: in this dream: whats RIGHT is skewed, its wrong,
its not REAL. I.e. The right thing in your mind to do is represented
as "WRONG" in this ending (dream) --- You get a renegade option (RED) to
shoot TIM to save anderson?? really? im sorry thats paragon.. but see..
its indoctrination-- its making you think its WRONG to shoot TIM to
save anderson.
-At the end the (control reapers) area is blue lit
(correct me if im wrong) the middle is white light.. walking towards
the light.. metaphorical your accepting fate--accepting the idea that
Organics will become 1 with synthetics (isnt that what reapers are doing
anyways?) -- the RIGHT side is painted red (renegade) Destroy
synthetics... but its the RIGHT thing to do.. Mass effect 1 through 3
is all about DESTROYING the reapers... harbinger wants you to think
its a wrong thing to do...

the "secret" ending: you wake up in a
pile of concrete (its been said before) -- citadel obviously wasn't
concrete -- you fought and broke your will against harbinger/reapers
as in your dream you pick yourself up your standing two hands on your
gun not even acting injured as you destroy the one thing that will bring
about the downfall to the reapers (opposite of what they want.. so you
broke their WILL against you)

[mupp3tz]

Perhaps this is a way for Bioware to prevent an ending leak before release, like the script. Maybe they intend to provide the ending via Alliance Network once the game has been released everywhere. Highly doubtful, but just maaaybe.

[lavosslayer]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

SomeBug wrote...

littleork wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

tuzem2 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

tuzem2 wrote...

I took the liberty to tweet it @masseffect
and we got noticed there
https://twitter.com/...880979274960897

Oddly, that response does not inspire confidence in me. It seems like they were surprised by the idea, which would mean that they hadn't thought of it yet.

Granted, it might just be a response from someone in marketing ignorant of what the dev-team is planning, but still.

Well even if they knew that the current ending wasn't the true one, do you think they would share it with us. I mean they'll probably get fired because of sharing info that is intentionally being kept a secret :=)

I like to think it's them being non-committal. Being impressed with our dedication to figuring the endings out, and that's all.

But, I do agree. As a general thing, this doesn't bode terribly well. At the very least, it's no confirmation of any kind.

Confirming it would be bad, they need to play the amazed/surprised, otherwise the surprise isnt there anymore since we would get confirmation that we are right.

They're having emergency meetings at BioWare and at EA.

They're calling in people from their weekend over this.

The companies that produced this game have hundreds of employees. The QA companies that would have tested any ending that you think they have up their sleeve rotate in hundreds more people to test the game.

Microsoft and Sony both have certification teams of equal size that have to certify any content for distribution on their online services.

The list of people who would know about a hidden 'it was all a hallucination' ending is so large and so widespread that there is ZERO chance this is going to occur without a significant leak. The entire game was leaked, for christ's sake, and you think they managed to keep this under wraps.


IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. STOP PUTTING YOUR HOPES INTO THIS IDEA. THERE IS ZERO CHANCE OF IT BEING TRUE.

You have nothing to back any that up.

Just ignore this guy...we've tried to engage him in discussions directly on the points we've stated previously and he never answers back with anything other then his poison laden tripe and his psuedo-"I think I'm smarter then you" intellectual retorts...not worth anyones time


I can only surmise that he is just trying to ****** in our wheaties at this point...despite his statements otherwise..

[lbott]

I'd love if they released a expansion pack in DAO Awakening format.

Mass Effect 3: Awakening, starting off from the moment where Shepard is hit by the beam.

[MissMaster_2]

@SomeBug

LOL nevermind you are not worth the time....anywayy

Jessica Merizan who works at BW said on her twitter that she interpreted the ending as a dream also.

(I saw think link in this forum but I can't find it now- someone help me out with the link.)

Modifié par MissMaster_2, 11 mars 2012 - 08:54 .

[lavosslayer]

lbott wrote...

I'd love if they released a expansion pack in DAO Awakening format.

Mass Effect 3: Awakening, starting off from the moment where Shepard is hit by the beam.

that would be pretty sweet...add another 10-15 hours of game...sign me up

[Dessalines]

I cannot believe I have not used this account since Dragon Age, and I reactivated just to respond to this game. Did anyone try to bring up their powers during the final scene? I know I did not even think about it/ Why would you shoot it if you could use one of your biotic powers to destroy it from a distance. I thinking of the options too. 1)Okay, if you do not have a big enough fleet, do you even get presented with the options about becoming a Reaver, or does the game end with you getting blasted. 2)if you have big enough fleet, you still will die when you let Anderson die? Why? Those are two unrelated things. The only way is there are related if this is a dream, and one is dealing with what is happening inside the dream, and the other is dealing with fighting in the real world. 3) Stargazer scene. You never see the faces of the people talking. You have no idea what race they are, or what planet they are on? It so vague, and even the old man states that the exact details have been lost in time. I can't see anyone selling a DLC that takes place before Shep dies. Who would buy that? 4)The game lets you go into combat mode, but you cannot do anything. with the gun. It could have showed you walking into the room with Anderson and IM without giving you control. You can't shoot the creature that is in the corridor. 5)My dialogue was different with the computer kid. too. 6) You don't see your face when you survive either. The citadel is in space. How did you get back to Earth?

[xGhost4000x]

Just incase anyone missed it, https://twitter.com/...880979274960897

This is not something I found someone here posted the link earlier.

Modifié par xGhost4000x, 11 mars 2012 - 08:54 .

[Meteor_VII]

After reading about this theory or idea or w/e I gotta say it really saved me concerning the ending of this series. I was so down in the dumps after finishing it but seeing how much it lines up with what you see in the game, it really lines up but also makes me think of what route they will take with dlc.

Because with this being a hallucination would then dlc pick up after you pick and ending but then see Shepard in London on the ground as he is first getting up after first being hit by the laser? or would they totally negate the dream and just make the game go a different way right after you get to the laser in the first place.

Modifié par Meteor_VII, 11 mars 2012 - 08:55 .

[Bigdoser]

Don't forget one of the definitions of crucible means severe test or trial.

[Sharrack]

(Posted it in the old thread before finding this one)
Illusions usually let the mind do the work for them and let it decieve itself. This would explain why the confrontation with TIM plays out very similar as the one with Saren as shepard thinks both had initially good intentions but got indoctrinated (if the dream starts before entering the citadel).
Andersons death then perhaps is a symbol for S. believing for them to be to late.

Shepard own mind doing the main work also gives us an explanation on why the War Assets influence the endings. I think it would go like this:
The more readiness you have the higher Shepards determination and willpower are and changes the outcome Shepards deems possible.
On the different kinds of endings i think it's true that destruction frees him and control enslaves him but sythesis needs a much to high amount of war assets to be a bad outcome for him. It seems more like a back door his mind wants to show him, another way he could go to defeat the reapers.
reason why he isn't shown alive afterwards: it would give away that it's not real too easily.
And he dies in all of the possibilities because he himself doubts that he will survive this.

Read about this theory of yours yesterday and afterwards i remembered some things:
- In an interview i stumbled upon it was hinted at by bioware staff that the playtime is about 50% more then ME 2 now that would get me to about 60h but ME3 capped out at around 30h.
- There was a lot of talk about wrong leads and us hunting for differen solutions when there is only one
So perhaps we not only didn't see the real ending but we still get half of the game at a later time and this waiting is a part of the experience. Except while on PC that wouldn't be much of a problem with Origin being needed to actually play the game (perhaps also a reason it's mandatory),
how would they do it on the 360? On the PS3 it could already be on disc, the space is there and there either is a timestamp which unlocks the content or you need a patch to do so...

Edit: Oh and don't know it's already said but after you return from enterring the Geth server EDI says something along the lines of "how do you know you are in reality now?". If this theory is true it would make this statement one hell of a foreshadowing.

[WizenSlinky0]

I honestly cannot see any situation where this theory would be preferable to what we got. If it's all a hallucination the reapers essentially win anyway even if Shepard gets back up in London, unless you apply excessive headcanon. That or they release DLC or an expansion and we all get ripped off for the actual ending.

Neither leaves a very good taste in my mouth. I can't help but think over thinking this theory is more depressing and more unsatisfying than the unsatisfying nature of what we have already.

But to each their own.

[Larv-old]

Maybe this version was already written, but I see it this way:
If we assume that after Shepard is hit by the Harbinger, he is under infusion of the reaper, and following moment is just an illusion (there is reaper near Shepard, not just any artifact). So, blue and green endings are good only for reapers, not humanity. But if Shepard choose red variant, he resist. Red ending is the only one where Shepard alive. More of it, we see that he lie among concrete fragments. So it's not a Citadel, but Earth. So he resisted, he wake up after reaper hit (he start breathe). It was just a dream. As we know, we need 5000 combat readiness to see Shepard alive, so logically more ships Shepard has, more ships can distract reaper attention while you unconscious. Otherwise reaper kills you.

[lavosslayer]

Bigdoser wrote...

Don't forget one of the definitions of crucible means severe test or trial.

and that it is the name of the obsticle course in marine boot camp not to mention the forced run called "the reaper"...no coiencidence there...nothing at all...(btw that was brought up before so I don't take credit for this information)

Modifié par lavosslayer, 11 mars 2012 - 08:58 .

[Starshadw]

Maybe.  I wasn't trying to punch holes in this theory overall, just that there is the small plot hole as to why, if there was an indoctrination device on the Normandy, Kaidan wasn't reacting to it.  I do know that every time you take Kaidan anywhere near that spot during ME1 and click on him, he'll make that same comment, which at least to me, implies that it takes a fairly long exposure before a person gets used to it - and probably even longer for someone who is sensitive to it like Kaidan obviously is.

I actually never got the dialogue where James complains about a buzzing sound.  Does anyone have a good approximation as to when it happens during the game? Is it near the beginning, or further along?

It's also entirely possible that the ending could have been less about indoctrination, and more about Shep being in such a weakened state that Harbinger was able to gain access to her mind through all of the impants and cybertech in her body.

lookingglassmind wrote...

Starshadw wrote...

This does, of course, then beg the question of why Kaidan doesn't notice the sound in ME3 the way Vega does - Kaidan has no reason to be partially indoctrinated; he wasn't around in ME2 to be exposed to Reaper tech., so he should have also commented about the sound.

humes spork wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

Also, yesterday, humes and company were throwing around how this connects with Kaidan in ME1, experiencing pain in his teeth and head while in contact with a Reaper artifact, suggesting an indoctrination link there. (Not that Kaidan was indoctrinated, but that some people are sensitive to the infrasonic waves that indoctrination tech puts out).

The purpose in bringing Kaiden into the discussion was to shed light on how BioWare's used this kind of tactic before to foreshadow stuff. Especially bringing in the context of two other BW titles, KoTOR and BG, that had epic player mindf*ckery.

It could be that Kaidan just... gets used to it? I don't know how to make a more elegant extrapolation than that. But humes spork  made an excellent one yesterday, in favour of this. S/he explained quite well how Kaidan might not react to an indoctrination device aboard the Normandy. If indoctrination devices only bother sensitive individuals upon first exposure, and you get 'used to it' after first exposure, then it makes a small amount of sense as to why Vega is sensitive and Kaidan is not. Vega has never been exposed prior to this.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Darjeer wrote...

littleork wrote...

Darjeer wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

For the few people who seem to be popping up with the 'this theory is stupid' posts, maybe put the effort in to explain why you think the indoctrination theory doesn't fit.

The theory is actually pretty smart, but the it isn't the problem here. It's what this theory would mean to the game and promises of multiple endings and epic conclusion to trilogy. If this whole ordeal proves to be the right, then the game gives you 2 endings that are game over for your character and one ending where there is no real conclusion to the story.

I would only see this as an incomplete game if they charged for it. I have seen forums suggest that this maybe DLC released soon just to keep spoilers from getting out early. If that is the case then i will forgive bioware for such a soul crushing ending.

waking up wouldnt be the ending, they can keep the story going and still give you plenty of ending after other choices and fights that you make.

It still doesn't chance the fact that "waking up" -ending would leave us with incomplete story. If I'm paying full price for a game that promises epic conclusion to the story I have been invested in for many years, I kinda expect that promise to be filled within the game, not some upcoming DLC.

[Turtlicious]

Alrighty, but let's get back to disecting, apparently on youtube someone said that a poster for the missing child shows up on the Docks.

[Hanabii]

I have my own theory. And I really like and respect Lavosslayer's Theory.

My Theory at http://social.biowar...5/index/9759738

Is a long in depth study of previous evidence and a translation of my own on the endings. Read it if you have the time. I may repost it once every few days to get fresh input.

[crimsontotem]

I posted this on the other thread but I want to say it here since this thread is getting big.

Remember what TIM said? Cerberus is an idea, idea never dies... Throughout the game, we can see Shepard has became no just a BAMF, but a concept, an idea that represents the resistance, determination, passion and will to live. (Wrex clearly imply my statement when he said to every Krogan, the word Shepard will mean a 'hero') Even Shepard dies, the idea of unification against the great unknown will not disappear, unless you break and bend that idea itself...

two of the three ending does not represent Shepard... this clearly violate his determination to destroy reapers by either becoming one with synthetic, a final stage of evolution (Saren mentioned this as well when he was indoctrinated) or trying to control them... which you are never able to. However, by sticking to his determination... Shepard is finally able to break Harbinger's attempt to indoctrinate him and wakes up after getting knocked out by the beam. That is the only way why Harbinger himself came down to London and Shepard waking up under "mortars", "concretes" and "rebars".

[lavosslayer]

Turtlicious wrote...

Alrighty, but let's get back to disecting, apparently on youtube someone said that a poster for the missing child shows up on the Docks.

well even if that is true all it does is indicate that the kid is real at the beginning of the game however it does nothing to really refute his use against Shepards psyche later on in the dream sequences...

[mupp3tz]

You guys, it may also be helpful to note that Paragon and Renegade do not always mean "good" or "bad." This reasoning has been used in the past pages to question why "Control" is Paragon and "Destroy" is Renegade.

A few situations during the trilogy has made me think that Paragon is, more so, meant to represent level - headedness, calm reasoning, rationality, or compassion; whereas, Renegade is aggressiveness, rushed decision, emotionally charged, and instinctual reasoning.

For instance, the Udina kill (which was well deserved) was a Renegade interrupt. He undoubtedly needed to be killed, so, then why is it Renegade? Well, because you are acting on instinct and not giving him a chance to explain himself. I know I ran into a few decisions throughout the series that I felt should have been the opposite, thinking under the "good" vs. "bad" reasoning.

Sorry for the rant, but I hope it contributes somehow.

[lookingglassmind]

Turt: I am watching your video. You have done an EXCELLENT job of pulling together all of the graphical evidence we have! I only wish it was narrated!

Can you send this to Byne to be used as a guide for her layout on page 1?

[MacNille]

This have just enter Neon Genesis teritory. Thought i would never had to say that about Mass Effect.

[Turtlicious]

I like it, can we add it to the front page?

[lookingglassmind]

crimsontotem wrote...

I posted this on the other thread but I want to say it here since this thread is getting big.

Remember what TIM said? Cerberus is an idea, idea never dies... Throughout the game, we can see Shepard has became no just a BAMF, but a concept, an idea that represents the resistance, determination, passion and will to live. (Wrex clearly imply my statement when he said to every Krogan, the word Shepard will mean a 'hero') Even Shepard dies, the idea of unification against the great unknown will not disappear, unless you break and bend that idea itself...

two of the three ending does not represent Shepard... this clearly violate his determination to destroy reapers by either becoming one with synthetic, a final stage of evolution (Saren mentioned this as well when he was indoctrinated) or trying to control them... which you are never able to. However, by sticking to his determination... Shepard is finally able to break Harbinger's attempt to indoctrinate him and wakes up after getting knocked out by the beam. That is the only way why Harbinger himself came down to London and Shepard waking up under "mortars", "concretes" and "rebars".

Crimson, I spamposted this a bunch of times on this forum. I loved what you said. I'm using it in my final dissertation to the forum as to why Synthesis might be the best and 'perfect' option.