57139 réponses à ce sujet

[JustAidan]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

CaliGuy033 wrote...

NikolaiShade wrote...

@CaliGuy033

I'm sorry, but since we have no "proof" for IT nor any other explanation, at least for now, until BioWare speaks clearly, we can add all the circustantial evidence for one theory or the other, they're still all true and all false at the same time.

Here's where we differ.  You're speaking in terms of "true" or "false."  I'm not.  I cannot tell you that IT is "false."  I have no idea--I didn't write the game.

What I can tell you is that the arguments for IT are incredibly weak, and that the evidence supporting the theory is incredibly weak.  

Oh yeah I am sure you looked through all 900+ pages judging every piece of evidence seperately before coming to this stunning conclusion.

Fact is at the moment we have more proof supporting the It theory than you have disproving it (you have zip), so bring something to the table or leave the thread please.

So was that one of the threads' daily "I HAVE IRREFUTABLE PROOF THAT ID IS WROOONG, and your all stupid too" posters?

All I can say is: "Lots of Speculation" doesn't even cut it, this Mass Effect ending/Indoctrination event has gotten to every forum I have been on recently.

If this was an intentional PR stunt, among other things, all I can say is "Well played Bioware, well played".

[byne]

CaliGuy033 wrote...


Yes, I've seen all the evidence, or at least the bulk of it.  It's all weak, based on confirmation bias and failure to recognize numerous viable alternative explanations for evey single premise. 

>you guys wont recognize the numerous alternative explanations
>doesnt provide a single one

[Rifneno]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

You shouldn't stick your head in the ground so much.  You know how many animals ****** on it?

I find this incredibly ironic when your position is most accurately summed up as: "I don't want to believe that Bioware let me down with this bad ending, so in my state of extreme denial, I came up with a new ending." 

When I want to be psychoanalyzed by someone who thinks it's logical for a billion year old AI that looks like some kid's ghost to change the very fabric of reality by merging organic and synthetic life now and forever via leaves with printed circuitry in them... I'll let you know.  Until then, stick to the self-superior blanket crap you were doing.

[IronSabbath88]

I didn't bet on the song being called that.

Like I said, if this was the intention, it was meant to be a surprise and anyone who thinks that BioWare would just flat out say "you're indoctrinated" is sorely mistaken. That's like the movie giving away the big twist before it actually happens, and that's the main point why I don't like Gamermd83's videos... she distinctly says that they would make it obvious.

That kind of goes against the whole entire process of surprise.

[JustAidan]

Err about that song that is called indoctrinated.

It's real!

It's from a rip someone did from the extended edition over on Reddit.

Ooh, must find out more.

Edit so no one jumps on this, the poster named the songs himself so no joy.

Modifié par JustAidan, 28 mars 2012 - 06:34 .

[CaliGuy033]

llbountyhunter wrote...

CaliGuy033 wrote...

NikolaiShade wrote...

@CaliGuy033

I'm sorry, but since we have no "proof" for IT nor any other explanation, at least for now, until BioWare speaks clearly, we can add all the circustantial evidence for one theory or the other, they're still all true and all false at the same time.

Here's where we differ.  You're speaking in terms of "true" or "false."  I'm not.  I cannot tell you that IT is "false."  I have no idea--I didn't write the game.

What I can tell you is that the arguments for IT are incredibly weak, and that the evidence supporting the theory is incredibly weak.  

Calling the claims "weak" is an oppinion. And you are one of the few you don't seem to grasp the implications, almost everyone else views this as near solid proof (maybe because they actually understand it) just because you can't see it doesn't mean its a poor theory.

The failure of the IT movement to understand the mechanics of logical proofs, necessary and sufficient conditions, and the probative value of circumstantial evidence is not "my opinion."  If you say "2+2 = 5" and I tell you you're wrong, that is also not "my opinion."

[BastiSito]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

What I can tell you is that the arguments for IT are incredibly weak, and that the evidence supporting the theory is incredibly weak.  

You can't value the arguments - if they are "weak" or "strong". That needs a counter-argument, which hasn't been clearly given.

You're right as the IT is just speculative. But to "rate" it as weak just because it is speculative is exactly the same invalid method as stating IT was a fact or had solid proof.

We are debating hints, possibilities, interpretations. Very debateble, neither "weak" by definition nor "fact" by definition.

[CaliGuy033]

Rifneno wrote...

CaliGuy033 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

You shouldn't stick your head in the ground so much.  You know how many animals ****** on it?

I find this incredibly ironic when your position is most accurately summed up as: "I don't want to believe that Bioware let me down with this bad ending, so in my state of extreme denial, I came up with a new ending." 

When I want to be psychoanalyzed by someone who thinks it's logical for a billion year old AI that looks like some kid's ghost to change the very fabric of reality by merging organic and synthetic life now and forever via leaves with printed circuitry in them... I'll let you know.  Until then, stick to the self-superior blanket crap you were doing.

I don't need you to invite me to analyze your completely transparent coping mechanisms.  Thanks.

Modifié par CaliGuy033, 28 mars 2012 - 06:29 .

[byne]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

CaliGuy033 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

You shouldn't stick your head in the ground so much.  You know how many animals ****** on it?

I find this incredibly ironic when your position is most accurately summed up as: "I don't want to believe that Bioware let me down with this bad ending, so in my state of extreme denial, I came up with a new ending." 

When I want to be psychoanalyzed by someone who thinks it's logical for a billion year old AI that looks like some kid's ghost to change the very fabric of reality by merging organic and synthetic life now and forever via leaves with printed circuitry in them... I'll let you know.  Until then, stick to the self-superior blanket crap you were doing.

I don't need you to invite me to analyze your completely transparent coping mechanisms.  Thanks.

Dont think that just because you modified it before I clicked reply I didnt see you saying you DO need him to invite you to do so, CaliGuy.

I see everything.

[Rifneno]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

I don't need you to invite me to analyze your completely transparent coping mechanisms.  Thanks.

Sure, why not.  It's not like you needed an invitation to start blatantly trolling.

[Cucobr]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

The video has more than 20 minutes of:

- Solid arguments based on Codex
- Dialogues of the three games
- Images of the three games.

The video is results-oriented and ignores the possible alternative explanations (and there are many) for all of those Codex entries, dialogue events, and images.

Here's an easy example: one thing the video points out is that some of the same graphic textures are found outside by the beam and up in the Starchild's chamber.  The video tells you this is evidence of IT.  But much more likely, it's evidence of a development team that wanted to be efficient and re-used some textures rather than making new ones from scratch. 

The vast majority of time, the most obvious explanation is the correct one.  That's where the video goes astray.  It consistently eschews the most obvious explanation.

''But much more likely, it's evidence of a development team that wanted to be efficient and re-used some textures rather than making new ones from scratch.''

I dont buy it. I'll show the why.

Come to the world of TV commercials.
When you do a commercial, ALL IN IT was your choice.
- The clothes of the actors
- The Local
- The furniture of the place and their positions
- The colors of the place
- Dialogues
- The angle of footage

The same rules apply when you make a game. Everything in that scene was empty.The bioware building was the scene to represent what they wanted it.Do not think that was by accident. This has ever happened in ME1, ME2? or 99% of ME3? No.

But this happens in 1% of the final in ME3? I dont think so...

The same structures used to make the Shadow Broker Ship, appear at the Citadel in 1% of the final game? Never seen before in the entire series, only 1% in the end?

Do you understand?

And I'm just defending one point of Indoctrination Theory.

Modifié par Cucobr, 28 mars 2012 - 06:32 .

[JustAidan]

JustAidan wrote...

Err about that song that is called indoctrinated.

It's real!

It's from a rip someone did from the extended edition over on Reddit.

Ooh, must find out more.

Bah, nevermind the poster named them him/herself.

Modifié par JustAidan, 28 mars 2012 - 06:32 .

[RoyalGambit]

Started replaying the original Mass Effect. Noticed that Kaidan comments on a "low hum" coming from a very reaper looking statue of a mass relay, inside the citadel. He says it pretty much the exact same way as Vega does in ME3, so maybe it isn't a coincidence?

[Chyliss]

CaliGuy033 wrote...


What I can tell you is that the arguments for IT are incredibly weak, and that the evidence supporting the theory is incredibly weak.  

Circa 1519 BC: The arguments for a round earth are incredibly weak and the evidence supporting the theory is incredibly weak.

Two years later Magellan floats back into port... Just sayin'.

And I'm sure the greeks who proved it hundreds of years before were just as frustrated with people like you as many of the people in this thread are. But people do tend to mock what they don't understand. So it's ok. "Magellan" will show up next week sometime to help you understand.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

This will probably get buried soon, but it's worth a look:

I laughed til I cried...

[Dance Craze]

Over the past day, I have been feeling a strong inclination that the ending is not indoctrination. I was once a true believer and then a doubter and then a true believer once more but now I'm a doubter once again. I feel that it is obvious that the starchild is not a hallucination. The catalyst is a true necessity that is introduced in the very beginning of the game as being crucial to the crucible. If he is not the catalyst, then what would be? It cannot just be the citadel because it is just a space station. This thought has swayed me to the other side once more... Any thoughts as to what else the catalyst would be and what not?

[Stigweird85]

JustAidan wrote...

Err about that song that is called indoctrinated.

It's real!

It's from a rip someone did from the extended edition over on Reddit.

Ooh, must find out more.

www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/rhe9o/mass_effect_3_soundtrack_extended_edition_has/

Meh, kinda expected released soundtrack not full soundtrack. However I am dubious about the credibility of that link as no official soundtrack has been released AFAIK

[IronSabbath88]

I do find it kind of suspect that Anderson sort of hints that it looks like the Collector Base. It's like BioWare is telling you to pay attention.

Because next up it looks like the Shadow Broker Base.

And then it looks like the Cerberus base.

It could be that they dropped that hint to tell you that you've seen that place before and you should keep your eyes open and observe.

[CaliGuy033]

Chyliss wrote...

CaliGuy033 wrote...


What I can tell you is that the arguments for IT are incredibly weak, and that the evidence supporting the theory is incredibly weak.  

Circa 1519 BC: The arguments for a round earth are incredibly weak and the evidence supporting the theory is incredibly weak.

Two years later Magellan floats back into port... Just sayin'.

And I'm sure the greeks who proved it hundreds of years before were just as frustrated with people like you as many of the people in this thread are. But people do tend to mock what they don't understand. So it's ok. "Magellan" will show up next week sometime to help you understand.

You really don't understand the numerous substantive differences between that scenario and this one?  Seriously?

[BastiSito]

RoyalGambit wrote...

Started replaying the original Mass Effect. Noticed that Kaidan comments on a "low hum" coming from a very reaper looking statue of a mass relay, inside the citadel. He says it pretty much the exact same way as Vega does in ME3, so maybe it isn't a coincidence?

SPOILERS!

That would be the Conduit. Mini Mass Relay.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

CaliGuy033 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

You shouldn't stick your head in the ground so much.  You know how many animals ****** on it?

I find this incredibly ironic when your position is most accurately summed up as: "I don't want to believe that Bioware let me down with this bad ending, so in my state of extreme denial, I came up with a new ending." 

When I want to be psychoanalyzed by someone who thinks it's logical for a billion year old AI that looks like some kid's ghost to change the very fabric of reality by merging organic and synthetic life now and forever via leaves with printed circuitry in them... I'll let you know.  Until then, stick to the self-superior blanket crap you were doing.

I don't need you to invite me to analyze your completely transparent coping mechanisms.  Thanks.

Hey

On behalf of this thread I ask that you contribute something of value to this thread, wether that be a detailed explanation as to why you find our arguments "weak" or a example of how it all fits together without this theory, or please leave this thread to the ones who actually interest themselves in discussing this theory.

As it is right now you are just saying the same things over and over ignoring any request to actually elaborate on your posts and as such cluttering up the thread with useless Junk.

[Rob_K1]

JustAidan wrote...

Err about that song that is called indoctrinated.

It's real!

It's from a rip someone did from the extended edition over on Reddit.

Ooh, must find out more.

www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/rhe9o/mass_effect_3_soundtrack_extended_edition_has/

Don't read anything into it.

From further down the page:

Link

'OP here. Hope you guys enjoy my extended soundtrack. Note that this is
not an official release so song names like Indoctrinated were the names I
gave the songs.'

It's listed as being said 2 hours ago, as of this post. Unless you referred to something else.

Also, the wikia doesn't reference that track name.

[Rifneno]

RoyalGambit wrote...

Started replaying the original Mass Effect. Noticed that Kaidan comments on a "low hum" coming from a very reaper looking statue of a mass relay, inside the citadel. He says it pretty much the exact same way as Vega does in ME3, so maybe it isn't a coincidence?

You mean the conduit?

[streamlock]

BastiSito wrote...

streamlock wrote...

I don't get why people are getting irate over people believing/supporting the Indoc/LSD theory anyway. I mean, "It's lots of speculation" just like the dev's were hoping for correct?

Right or wrong, bioware has not come out and said anything toward the specific topic-so it's as good a theory as Sheppard's a tool of an AI god and Joker gets to repopulate the species on a magic planet.

Good lord, what would they do if it 'does' turn out to be true? Physically explode? At this point I hope Bioware puts it in even if it was not originally intended just to watch the fireworks.

Erm - I really like the ending as it is today. I like speculations and what-ifs about indoctrination, but really, I like it as it is. It is just right for the main protagonist to perish at the end.

No little blue children for my Jennifer Shepard, just a decision of controlling, destroying or sythesizing. Happy endings suck.

Well, personally I didn't expect, or really want (my sheppard anyway) to survive the ordeal regardless.  I don't particularly care for the current ending as it stands, but even if I did I would prefer a good twist/mind frak more then anything.  It would mean it would be a cliffhanger as well (and I don't like cliffhangers in a non-regular serialized production), but I would submit to that for a good 'fooled ya' ending. 

It's rare that any form of media can do that within the bounds of it's narritive framework without breaking it and for it not to be imediatly seen through (for me anyway).  And considering at this point I'm not entirely convinced of the whole indoc theory to begin with-it would still be the case.

I guess we can agree to disagree in this matter